I don't know where to begin, but I've read alot of the other posts in here and their is a lot of good advice being given here. So I'll give it a try.<P>I've been married for 10 years. Ooooops in April it will be 10 years, so almost 10 years. We have two beautiful kids. We have been existing for a couple of years with each other, just going thru the same old motions. Not a lot of talk about our feelings or needs and wants, just about daily things and future things that we would like to do ie.. vacations, kids and sports, and doing different things to the house.<P>Last April she told me that she no longer loved me. She questions herself whether she ever loved me at all. We tried counseling and stuff, by I know she did not what to try. 9 months passed until we finally seperated. During those nine months we did lots of things together and even talked more together at night in bed, or while watching T.V. or riding in the car. We did more talking in these 9 months that we did in the past 3 or 4 years combined. We even both admitted things were getting better.<P>The majority of our problem (about 90%) is me. I made alot of mistakes in our marriage. I am quick to critize, didn't understand her, didn't keep the romance alive, and didn't see any of her cries for help. I am more than a typical man, because I take things to far and to the extreme. I am truely sorry for my actions and have been trying to change for about two years now. I have changed alot and my wife even has noticed and admitted this to me, the only problem with that is that she is mad at me for changing now and not along time ago. I love my wife and divorce is not an option in my mind. I have never cheated on her and have never been physically abusive. I have just killed her by my words and actions. Communication is something that both of us are not good at. It's been 3 weeks since we decided it was best that I move out. When we talk she can be as nice and as sweet as possible, and then the next time just be as depressed and quiet as can be. I know I'm rambling on, but it hard to be alone and to be away from my kids. I had no idea what the pain would be like. Any help and advice would be appreciated.

Well did you move out? Did you make a solemn promise to do so? Was it your idea or hers?<P>Have you taken concrete steps to secure other quarters? <P>If a spouse feels you *must* move out, then you're doing damage by staying. But otherwise, find ways to hang in there, so long as it doesn't <I>raise</I> the level of tension. Keep up your "Plan A". Acknowledge her anger, let her tell you everything she wants, and do your best to validate her feelings. But the more you can do to find reasons to <I>delay</I> moving out, the better off you are. At some point, time may run out and she may decide that you're simply attempting to thwart her intent--if that happens, you've got to go through with the moveout. But you have to hope that in the meantime you can have sufficient influence that a moveout won't be necessary.<P>Assuming you <I>have</I> moved out, ask her to tell you what it would take for her to want you back. If she won't tell you, ask her what a hypothetical wife in a situation similar to hers would want. You might also ask under what circumstances you can be around the house more. The more time you get to spend there, and the better time that is, the better chance you have of coming home for good.<P>There's a book on Amazon.com about "controlled separation". You may want to look into that so that you can find out what ends a controlled separation and leads to a reconciliation. You may not yet be doing it right--but the book may help. <p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited February 20, 2001).]

I sappose my advice for you would be to date your wife again. I know it sounds funny to date someone that you're married to, however that might bring the romance back. Call her and ask her out for a date. If she accepts than take her out for a lovely dinner, a romantic walk, bring her flowers..etc.. Woo her into loving you again. <P>Good luck, I hope that she gives you a chance to romance her!

fgm2001<BR>I know what your going through and what your W is doing to you right know, I am going through the same thing, exactly almost. It seems as they just want it to be over that they don't have any faith in us anymore. I didnt even get the chance to work on the situation at all, W wont even go to marriage counsoling. She has told friends that I look great and hopes I find a new W and she finds a new H. We have a 2 1/2 yr old girl that she says "will be fine" the aliens have captured my W and will not give her back. What you need to do is to lovingly distance yourself from your W , How often do you see her? you can get through this and theres a good chance you can get your W back from things that I have read. Dont bug, wine and cry to her, it only pushes them back further, beleve this I know. Act happy around her when you see her. Act as if your life is going on without her and you will be fine. This will turn her head a little. Change your dress, look nice for her all the time. Exercize is a key too, Join a health club-workout. do something you will be happy with yourself for doing. This is what i have been doing, as well as a lot of others who have gave me advise. i still am not even close to getting my W back but the word that i am learning to dislike an awful lot and you will here it a million times is PATIENCE.<P>GOD BLESS US ALL.<BR>Daveyboy

It was mainly my wife's idea that I move out. And I have been gone for 3 weeks now. We are talking and on good terms (no dissagreements or arguements). My 30th birthday is this Friday and I asked her out on a date! Today she called me at work and agreed to go out with me. Wish me luck! My goal is to try and only be a positive person around her and try to fill her love bank on the good side. I know I have added so much to the bad side of the love bank over the years and even here lately as we have seperated, but I know realized I must forgive myself and her for all of the things we have done in the past. If I don't, there is no way for me to be happy, much less make her happy.

This is of <B>utmost importance</B>. On the date, there is to be <B>no mention whatsoever</B> of wanting to move back in, or what it would take. Put at least two phone calls and/or two days between that date and any such discussion. You do <B>not</B> want her associating you and her doing something pleasant with you feeling free to <B>push</B>. <P>Get it? She is only <B>rewarded</B> for being nice to you. Having to talk about letting you back in the house is something she <I>might</I> view as <B>punishment</B>. Because then she won't want to go out with you again. Get it? <B>No Pressure</B> during (or attributable to) her dates with you.

Your on the right track here bigguy keep it up.<P>Daveyboy

A DATE???? WOOOOHOOOOOOOO I agree dont mention moving in, just make it a day of wooing...romance her like you've never romanced her before!! Try to avoid talking about the past! <BR>Good luck...and happy birthday

Thanks for the advice and help! I really appreciate it!

Our date and weekend had it's ups and downs. On friday night we went to eat and then to the movies. Then on Satudary we botht took the kids to see the movie Recess. Then on Sunday I saw her again at my son's first soccer practice. It's his first sport to play. After soccer practice we went to the house to get the kids clothes so they could spend one more night with me.<P>We had a big discussion over when the kids would be spending the night with me and such. This turned into her telling me that the biggest thing she doesn't like about me is that she feels that I have no confidence and lacking self-esteem. Hard not to be like that being in this terrible situation. But she feels this way because I ask for her opinion to much, and she feels like a procrastinate on making decisions and change my mind to much.<P>After that she talked about us getting married way to young (me 20 her 19). That we didn't know what we were doing. That she rushed into marriage with me because she thought she was ugly and that no one else would come along since she never had a lot of boyfriends. It's tough and it hurts.<P>One of my good friends that has survivied going thru the same thing that I am going thru now gave me some advice last night. He told me to stand fast and always tell her I miss her and love her every time I see her, and that she is just confused right now and just take any emotional abuse that she gives me and to basically be the whipping boy and hope someday that she will change. His story mirrors mine in what our wifes did and said to us. It's real close to the same story over again. He was seperated from his wife for 50 weeks before they got back together and now they both swear it is better that at any time before. He says that she realized one day the he loved her and she could only be happy if her marriage worked out with him. She had to convice herself first.<P>As you can see i'm rambling on, but what do any of you out there think? Any encouragment or advice would be helpful.<P>Thanks

forgive_me_2001,<P>I can tell you that I am doing just what your friend did. Is it working? Not sure. But you know what? At this point, even if it doesn't work, that is OK with me. Like you, when my wife first left (about a year ago) my self-confidence went down the tubes big-time (and this is from someone who has always been confident in himself!). Over time I realized that all I could do was to give my marriage over to God. To focus on the love I have for my wife.<P>I am able and it is OK for me to hate her actions, but that does not make it OK for me to hate her. I love her and will give her time. I feel extremely happy with the fact that I did not let anger into my life. I continue to treat her well - I continue to tell her I love and care about her - I continue to tell her that this divorce is her doing and her choice, that it is not what I want.<P>At the end of the day, if she comes back then I believe it will be in-part because of who I am and who I have become over the past year. If she doesn't come back, I can look back at how much I have grown over the past 12 months and just feel sorry for her - for I will know next time that I can honor the vows I made at the alter, while she will have to live forever with the doubt.<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

She has agreed to go to counceling! From what I can gather from her family is that she is really really mad at me, so this is a big step. I just need to kill her with kindness and continue to be nice. She is definetly worth it and my marriage is definetly worth it, so I hope that I can change enough for her. I can't help but think that I am going to continue to make mistakes though. It's scary to think about.<P>

Things are not much better. We are doing things as a family on Sundays. (Movies, park, zoo, out to eat, etc...) But we are still seperated and it's going on 2 1/2 months now.<P>She got mad at me FOR NO REASON while we were playing games with our kids last Wednesday and I started crying and got up to leave and the kids started crying and asking her what is wrong with daddy and were is he going. She just got real quiet and sat in the corner. I know that I shouldn't have cried in front of the kids, but I couldn't stop and couldn't understand why she went from being totally nice to totally insane. She told the kids then that it was her fault, but never apologized to me. I felt like since it happened in front of the kids she should have apologized in front of the kids (I didn't tell her that I felt that way though) I staying and played with the kids until they stopped crying and got over it.<P>That was on Wednesday! On Sunday we went to eat with our boys and I told her how upset about it I was. I told her also that she just can't treat me anyway that she feels like it and that if she gives me divorce papers that I would gladly sign them. I was really upset but controlling my temper about it. I told her that we are equally responsible for where our family situation is today, and that we both did wrong and we both hurt each other over the years. I told her to stop playing the victim role and get over it, and get on with her life. She started crying and cried along time while I played with the kids in the playground of the restuarant. I new I probably ended any hope of us getting back together, but she is not treating me badly in front of my kids.<P>After we went to our seperate homes, she called within 1 hour crying and being as nice as possible and she really started talking about what truly bothers her. It's incredible to me, but the main things that she said were that she feels like she has let her family and friends down and that she feels worthless and next that she feels like she can never make me happy.<P>After our conversation, it felt like we had made it to the top of the mountain (half-way home), and that I understand her a little bit more and that she respects me for standing up to her for the first time in our marriage. That's hard to admit because I always wanted to make her happy and do whatever it is she wanted, but she hated me for it and didn't have any respect for me for not ever standing up to her.<P>It's a very tough thing to go through and I don't wish this on anyone, but I know by reading all of the posts in the forum that there are tons of people in the same situation that I'm in.<P>Take care and if anyone is in the same boat or made it to the finish line, please drop me a line of encouragement.<P>

Hi... Did you get that book Sisyphus was talking about: <I>Should I Stay or Go: Controlled Separation</I>? I just got it last week and have read it half way through. It's really quite good. It helps put structure around the separation within a time frame and some guidelines (such as no going ahead with divorce proceedings until the timeline is up). I have to recommend it to you. The results of going through the process in the book are one of two results: a) rekindling your marriage or b) divorcing on more friendly and not so adversarial terms. So, isn't that worth a try? In the meantime, you can couple the work from Harley - Plan A, minimizing LB'ers and maximizing meeting her emotional needs.<P>I'm hoping for the best for you... as in a few weeks, I'll be in the same boat as you being physically separated from my H. I'm already feeling better by having some structure, guidelines and goals during that time rather than just the threat of divorce or unending separation...<P>Please keep us posted on your developments!<P><P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

Dear FM2001, <P>Your wife sounds like she has major mood swings. Do they happen at a particular time of the month? Has she been checked for any type of chemical imbalance? <P>She sounds like a woman who is frustrated at herself and can not tell you why. <P>L.

I was going to post a question myself & wound up reading your pretty close, almost. Your original post stated you were 90% wrong, you don't believe in divorce basically, & you never abused her - the highlights. Oh boy! I'm sorry you sound familiar, no disrespect but I have & am still ther myself to some degree. You are not 90% wrong you are 51% wrong - also related you never hit her but it sounds like you put your foot in your mouth often. <P>I would like to suggest a book also "Effective Listening" by Steil * Barker * Watson - McGraw Hill is the publisher. Exerpt from the book: Who is responsible for understanding a message the speaker or the listener? The answer depends on whether "you" are the speaker or the listener - reason who has the most to lose or gain from any message missed or received & the answer is always yourself. To repair this problem just take 51% of the responsibility for any message spoken or heard by you. I ask you ask you is there a lesson for you & life here. <P>You say you never hit your wife, to bad, as my wife explained to me even if I broke her arm it would eventually heal - but some words can cut much deeper than skin & bone - all the way to your wifes soul. That hit my soul when my wife gave me that same news I cried on & off for about a week. You sound a lot like a premature evaluator & women really hate that - when can I ask was the last time you just listened to her without responding, without judging, with only love & compassion, BUT also trust that maybe just maybe she knew the answer to the question she never actually asked that you answered anyway??? <P>You also said you do not believe in divorce, nether do I, so I just finished torturing my wife for about 7 months after 17 years of marriage. I wound up losing 35 lbs & I also sleep a whole lot less now 3-4 hours a night now, & that is better than it was. I am now giving my wife a legal separation I still will not give her the divorce though - but that now is merely a formality as my wife with her legal separation no longer needs me if she decides to go the distance. Hey here's a nutty thought, ooops forgot you would never consider tying her up & kidnapping her to keep her - but what do you think she hears when you say "I will never give you a divorce"? She hears I am trapped he will never let me free, he will never let me fly - did you feel like you could fly when you 1st got married, I did? Did you also ever hear the one that goes If you love something set it Free...? Your wife sounds like mine delicate & gentle, would'nt harm a flea (Please I hope you are not thinking what about me) maybe has been led to believe she is not strong enough to do anything on her own. If that is the case she is now just trying to survive not hurt you or your children. I don't believe there is anything wrong with her other than the fact that she is hurt & feels betrayed. <P>I know you are trying - but you must reach her soul & only you can do that. The only way to do that is to reach your own first. I don't care if you believe in religion or not there are other ways to do what I am suggesting. I think you have a lot of fear hidden by the anger that you use as a defence mechanism whenever threatened. Another good book that may be a little odd at first but will help you peel some of the layers back & get deeper is Seat of the Soul or Soul Stories by Gary Zukav I got mine at Amazon Books on the internet. <P>I came her for help myself, I hope I helped you because its true that this stuff comes back to you. I used to believe I could do so much for others as in those I cared about but I always fell short. I at least finally found the answer why I used to try to do these things for others for myself only - now I take the humble approach & do these things only with others in mind (less selfish - you agree) I tell you it makes all the difference in the world as the world is now a much more caring place for me. If you love your wife try to do it for her not for yourself - don't ask whats in it for me - and remember to be humble.<BR> <BR>I will leave you with my father in laws wise words before I try to go back to sleep. He does not blame me & tells me he does not even think I am responsible, he just believes this is a tragedy & prays for our future that is still unwritten.<BR>BUT (here is the real wise part) he is not concerned as much for me or his daughter as he is for his grandson who as rightfully believes is the true & only innocent in any of this tragedy........<P>God Bless Your Family & may you all find Love............<BR>Don't get mad, don't get even, get happy, get love, get back your dreams.......... <BR> <P>------------------<BR>StarCrossed