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#684438 03/15/01 07:00 AM
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As of today (March 15th), I only have 4 more days as a married man.<P>I have mixed emotions...<P>...I have accepted the inevitable<BR>...I have seen even <B>more</B> anger/hatred from my stbxw<BR>...I have even been asked by HER attorney to pay the balance of the house buyout... so he can get some of his lawyer fees (she owes him big time... ~$12,000)<BR>...not to mention the $35,000 she owes son in SSA benefits!<P>I see very clearly...<BR>...she will not come back...<BR>...unless she hits below a financial/emotional rock bottom...<BR>...but when my 401K gets split... it will only extend her ability to walk through <B>that</B> money too!<P>Please pray for her... she is sooooo lost in the fog...<BR>...I see the possibility of some dire results in the future... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ...for her... <BR>Her excessive pride can bring about almost anything... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Pray for me and my kids...<BR>...financial problems seem to be on the rise here too.<P>I'll get through my divorce on the 19th... (1:30 PM EST)...<BR>...and see how I have to move on.<P>Thanks for this...<BR>...and <B>all</B> the forums.<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A><p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited March 15, 2001).]

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Jim<P>I'll pray for you, your kids and especially your wife. I'm so sorry she is still so angry and unhappy with herself.<P>You are truly an inspiration. It's so sad when they can never seem to hit rock bottom, because they always have a safety net. (the wrong one)<P>((((((((((hugs and prayers))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>TT

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{{{{{{{JIM}}}}}}}<P>My prayers and thoughts are with you and your family. I'm sorry that the plan A didn't work out for you. I was hoping you were going to be one of the lucky ones to go on to recovery. You've grown a lot and helped a lot of people here along the way. I hope you find some peace in the next few days . I remember I was more nervous the days leading up to the divorce. Then when it actually was "happening" , I was numb for a few weeks, until it finally hit me.<P>hugs, Dana<BR>

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God bless, Jim. You'll weather this storm, too.

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Dear Jim, <P>I will be thinking about you...you have weathered this storm with great strength and conviction. Please know that life holds for you many wonderful things in the future. <BR>Sometime when going through such difficult times, we tend to realize how important we are. YOU are important, Jim. You are a kind and gentle soul whom God will help you through it all!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

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Jim,<P>I'm so sorry. I know how long, and how hard, you tried. You don't want this...<P>You are a good man, and God knows your heart in this. You will be blessed, I am sure of it.<P>Sheryl

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Jim,<P> I am checking up on you.I am so sorry your D is approaching.I think about your previous posts,I know you have been thru alot.I am still headed in the same direction too.<P><BR> Prayers to you,bethn<BR>

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Jim,<BR>I am so sorry. I too am close to the end of being married. I will be praying for you and your children. <BR>God Bless,<BR>Petrie<P>

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Hi Jim,<P>just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you. And praying for you.<BR>Your wife will have my prayers too, because she really is lost isn't she?<P>Keep strong my friend, you will get through this. I know I gave up a lot sooner than you did, but for me the divorce, (even though I didn't want it) gave me some closure. And that is a good thing. <P>I have the attitude that all is not lost. Both for me and for you. That particular marriage is dead and buried, but who's to say we can't have a new one. A much better one. A much stronger one. I hold the same hope for you.<BR>There's too much that has gone on with your old marriage. Let it go. But still stay focussed on what you want. Continue being you, because you are a wonderful person. One day, something will happen that will start to take her out of the fog. It always does. It is just so painful for you to have to sit there and wait for it to happen, and watch it while it happens. <P>What does that shampoo ad say "it won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen" .............<P>Anyway, my friend, know that we are all here for you. And praying for you, your wife and your children. One day, it will all be ok. I just hope it's soon.<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

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Jim,<P>As always you're in my prayers...your whole family, including your ex...<P>D-day is a cold sad day but you have been prepping for over a year now...<P>Hang in there...<P>Love you,<P>Bill<P><P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

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My love, prayers and thoughts go out to you as always....<P><P>------------------<BR><B>God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can...And the wisdom to know the difference.</B><P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

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<B>tootrusting</B>...<BR>You're right when you say they hardly seem to hit rock bottom...<BR>...conditions have to be right... as does their frame of mind...<BR>Thank you for the prayers!<P><B>Dana</B>...<BR>I do feel that numbness right now...<BR>...a few more days of it to come...<BR>...my time for more prayer!<BR>I pray for you too.<P><B>K</B>...<BR>Yes... A survivor is what I will be...<BR>...with God by my side!<P><B>Susan</B>...<BR>A sister... who knows how to show the kindest and gentlest of words.<BR>Your sweetness know no bounds.<P><B>Sheryl</B>...<BR>I've read about your turbulent times...<BR>...above all else... <B>you are loved</B>... (<I>miss that</I>?)...<BR>I've followed a hard road... we all could follow a harder one... for our own good.<P><B>bethn</B>...<BR>Follow gently, if you must, in my footsteps...<BR>...love and peace to you dear friend.<P><B>Petrie</B>...<BR>Thank you for praying for my children...<BR>...they are all finally showing signs of the negative effects of the divorce to be...<BR>...a minor crying fit by the youngest... after my son said something ever so slightly against his mom...<BR>...we are left to keep pieces together.<P><B>Jo</B>...<BR>I will have final closure... after the annulment I'll be seeking...<BR>...as you've said..."...<B>but it WILL happen</B>".<BR>Prayers... and hugs... ummmmmm... Thanks!<P><B>Bill</B>...<BR>I was so hoping to see you too...<BR>...the day will come...<BR>Cold and sad... for only part of the day...<BR>...I'll let Him carry me the rest of the day.<P><B>jamie-lee</B>...<BR>Even with your own times of turmoil...<BR>...you reach out to me with your love and prayers and thoughts...<BR>...this is exactly where all these forums really excell... in love of others!<P>----------------------------<P>Thanks one and all...<BR>...I'll make it...<BR>...I have all of you!<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited March 15, 2001).]

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Hey Stranger.....<P>How are you REALLY?<P>Ya' know....I am so glad that I was informed of D court date the night before it occurred......if I had to count down, I know I would have gone completely mad. God took care of me once again though and spared me that. As it was I was crying, throwing up, didn't sleep. See how much stronger you are then me? God knows that you can handle this....He knew I couldn't. The eeriest part is that for all the turmoil of that one night, it turned out the day brought on relief and a certain peace on some level.....<P>I am sorry Jim.......we are all with you - today, tomorrow, thru the weekend and right on into and after the courtroom on Monday....please hold on to us when you need to - PROMISE?<P>Out of the comfort side of this for a moment.....<P>What's up with all the catch phrases? "Move On"? Closure?" What do they mean?<P>You aren't going to move on Jim...you are CONTINUING to move "through" and move "forward" with your life's journey. Did you stop at some point? Don't think so. I think that you - like a lot of us have had more emotional movement going on throughout this than ever before......<P>Or do you mean, get out of "husband" mode?<BR>Even still you will always be "husband of so'n'so" as a part of what made you who you are today. That is not moved on from. Once again it is moved through - absorbed into you if you will. Take care to absorb the good of the experience and place the bad of it into the proper perspective. <P>And that brings me to where your "closure will come from......perspective and how YOU move forward with your emotions. I know that you feel annulment will somehow give you "closure" - I just don't see how.<BR>It's an outside solution to an emotional inner struggle. Don't your emotions have to play through regardless of any outside decrees.....sorta like a divorce paper, isn't it?<P>I am not saying that you are wrong or anything....I just am leery that what you project as a big "ender" for this is not going to REALLY decide to end it. Your feelings are your feelings and paper is not going to cut them off. You can try to make it though....but will it work?<P>I am just afraid that it may be a temporary illusion that will cause you future prolonged pain if you feel that any "one" occurrence is going to "close" this for you......<P>I don't think that is possible. It must run its course fully and as "real" as possible - not deadlined or goaled.....<P>I've been off here for the most part (although I do check up about once a week) to continue to "move forward" with the other issues and people in my life. One of those people is my best friend. Ironically, just as I am working through my own divorce - huge issues left hanging (the infamous BAGGAGE) from hers of over 13 years ago came roaring to the surface of her life. <P>I won't bore you now (I will probably thread the whole thing when I make more sense of it and bore you then!! teehee!) but let's just say that people can convince themselves to "move on" "get a life" "I have Closure" and anything else, all they want - it only postpones and imprisons all the emotions that are not fully processed. Most of which we are not even aware of, let alone those we are suppressing that we know about.<P>Her issues and emotions were long gone - according to her for all these years. OH FOOLISH HUMAN!!!! Came back and slammed her.....big time!! One thing about it - it is happening at the best time. She couldn't handle it then - no knowledge, no support......<P>Coming up now offers her support and knowledge....and yes, mainly through what I have learned and experienced. I knew there was a reason for me going through this and that something positive would come along. Maybe this is it? I hope this is not all....but even if it is - I am grateful that I could be here to help her. <P>Although I did tell her that I would kick her butt if she was the one who karma'd me into having to do this!!!! LOL!!!! Told her to go to the library next time!!! <BR> <BR>Anyway.....my point is be careful, be honest and use your knowledge about emotions and needs to help you with a true and good lifelong perspective about this lowest time of your life..... <P>I love ya and want you whole and all you truly are without baggage!!! If you think we can be around in 13 years to do anything if you get haunted.....well.....of course, we'll be here!!! <P>That's if I last with all this luggage collecting!!! LOL!!!<P>I know.....I rambled....but I haven't talked to you in soooooo long....miss you!<P>Hey, at least I gave other stuff to think on (wink-wink!!!)<P>BIG HUGS and Prayers as always,<P>Sheba

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Hi Sheba/warrior!<P>(this is one of my longest... so get that coffee)<P>Talk about your sleepless nights...<BR>...my first in a very long time.<P>I think I understand where you're at about the "closure issue".<BR>I've thought alot about it...<BR>...since I've had so much time without my W.<P>The major issue that opposes <B>closure</B> is...<BR>..."will she ever come to her senses"... (and come back to me/family).<P>and...(I know you don't know my W here)...<BR>there is now so much clarity of what my marriage was/wasn't!<P><B>..."will she ever come to her senses"...</B><BR>...clearly the "fog" can lift!<BR>...but where does that bring my W back to?...<P>If it brings my W back to where we were when before the affair...<BR>...that does no good!<BR>I have had numerous discussions with my W's first x-H (my stepson's biological father... who has now surfaced about 8 months ago).<BR>In these discussions, I have discovered a pattern of behavior that has hardly changed one iota...<BR>...true faith beliefs<BR>...beliefs (faith oriented or not) about sexual relations/behavior<BR>...understanding of "role" of motherhood/fatherhood<BR>...understanding of "roles" in married life<BR>...alcoholic consumption <BR>...the smoking habit<BR>...bi-polar disorder patterns / depression patterns<BR>...care of the household (management / cleaning / cooking / etc.)<BR>...(in)ability of handling any finances (buying clothes , eating out...)<P>...and I'll take it a bit farther...<BR>......from what the kids tell me... they continue through today!<P>One small example... (in the care of the household).... "laundry"...<BR>Months after marrying her first H...<BR>...she refused to do <B>any</B> laundry...<BR>......and there were just 3 of them at the time...<BR>......and general housekeeping was less than poor as well...<BR>...her H couldn't open the door to son's room since there was a 2-3 feet pile of clothing kept behind the door.<BR>...then...<BR>A few years after marrying me... (after her mom stopped visiting frequently)<BR>...she again refused to do <I>almost</I> any laundry...<BR>...to the point of have a mound of laundry kept in the garage... that was over 5 feet high (about 7 feet in diameter)<BR>...now there were 5 of us though!...<BR>......(I'm not over exagerating here... her mom and my mom saw it)<BR>And now...<BR>...my son says he enjoys going to his mom's basement...<BR>...why?...<BR>...because his mom lets him jump into continual pile of laundry...<BR>...now about 1 1/2 to 2 feet high (for just my W and OM!)<P>I'm not going to go through the details of all "ways my W was" before she left! I'd be here for quite some time!<P>I don't deny my contributions to the marriage...<BR>...there were definitely some...<BR>...but a year and a half here... has enlightened me <B>greatly</B>...<BR>...and most of my changes have happened!<P>-----------------------------------------------------------<P>Now suppose my W did come back...<BR>...and made the personal resolutions to meet some of those miminal ENs that were missing...<P><B>There are the issues that require medical(or at least professional) attention:</B><P>...alcoholic consumption <BR>......this was worse in her first marriage... (fights with xH after both getting drunk)<BR>......moderated drinking in our marriage...<BR>......and is now reverting as she lives with OM<P>...the smoking habit<BR>......this was bad in her first marriage... <BR>......she covered it from the children in our our marriage... (1 pack/day by the time she left)<BR>......but has now become a daily pack and a half smoker...<BR>.........(along side OM and OM's 2 kids(18/19yos) who also smoke)... freely in their house...<BR>.........during visitations at her house<BR>......when kids come home... they <B>wreak</B> of smoke... as do all their clothes<P>...bi-polar disorder patterns / depression patterns<BR>......since her father's death... the mood swings were substantially more pronounced<BR>......from first marriage... her co-dependence to her infirmed father was at least semi-stabilizing<BR>......abuse of over counter medication...<BR>......and deep depression on return from any/all vacations!<BR>......inability to deal with kids when returned from vacations left them almost to themselves <P><BR><B>There are the issues that require counseling (marriage/sex):</B><P>...beliefs (faith oriented or not) about sexual relations/behavior<BR>......(again... going back to her first marriage)... <BR>.......her behavior wasn't sexual healthy (per first H)<BR>.......and from all I've found in e-mails with OM during the affair...<BR>.......they have reverted to those behaviors <B>and more</B>... <BR>.......to the point of needing some professional counseling... <P>...understanding of "role" of motherhood/fatherhood<BR>......(again... going back to her first marriage)... <BR>.......her first xH made sure their son was to get $35K for college<BR>..........(again she blew it)... wasted it away!<BR>.......parents need to protect monetary/spiritual assets of their children<BR>.......she continually protrays my stepson's bio-father as a stalker/serial killer (untrue... and vicious)<BR>.......has already told my stepson that I have hit her during our marriage... (so very untrue)<P>...understanding of "roles" in married life<BR>......this is more in line with what is expected as "mutual submission" that she has rejected<BR>......lack of giver/taker concepts<P><B>There are the issues that require substantial habit changes:</B><P>...(in)ability of handling any finances (buying clothes , eating out...)<BR>......she had no money when divorcing her first xH... I had to pay the balance... years later.<BR>......she went through money faster than I could make it... (lost a rental property due to it)<BR>......in the last 4 months before d-day... we had maybe 5 home cooked meals...<BR>.........the rest of the time... fast food/restaurants... added up to big bucks<BR>......she hasn't paid her attorney (for this divorce)... about $12K outstanding.<P>-----------------------------------------------------------<P>Now all of these issues do need to be addressed...<BR>...but her change in faith... <BR>...(opposed to where I <I>thought</I> she was with me...)<BR>is the <B>biggest</B> obsticle!<P>She fought with me wrt taking the kids to OM's church / change of religious upbringing...<BR>She finds whatever excuse she can to not take them to services...<BR>In knowing her lack of practice of faith in her first marriage...<BR>In reading her letters to OM... describing how she wasn't really a "believer" in her faith...<BR>...in her marriage with me...<BR>...even to dismiss certain aspects of faith at the time of the marriage... <BR>Lying when she filed her first annulment...<BR>...and asking her sisters and parents to also lie!<BR>How she disregarded (most) of her faith's teaching... even under guise of being a rel. ed. teacher!<BR>In her rationalization of the "adultery" to "... make her a happier mom"... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] (yuck)!<P>Can she change in faith?... can she find a conversion of faith?...<BR>...she might!<BR>And where I stand at that moment... with God's providence... it might lead us back together...<BR>But not without her accepting a relationship with God...<BR>...(a required element to any sacramental marriage)...<BR>A marriage to me takes <B>three</B>... God/man/wife!... a mirror of the Trinity!<P>It is in <B>this</B> issue where... unless a conversion of faith occurs...<BR>(not in hitting a monetary rock bottom)<BR>(not in hitting a emotional deprevation from OM)<BR>(not in losing the OM other supports)<BR>(not in recognizing the need of medication (possibly?)... and counseling)<BR>(not in recognizing the loss of contact with any of family... kids... her mom... her siblings...)<P>...that our marriage... can <B>NOT</B> be deemed as <I><B>sacramental</B></I>...<P>I now firmly believe that at the time of the marriage... it wasn't... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR>...and in all those years... I forced myself to believe it was!<P>I don't see my annulment as a... "decision from the outside"...<BR>...or as you put it "outside solution to an emotional inner struggle"<P>I see it(annulment) as first and foremost a <B><I>very</I></B> <B>internal</B> process...<BR>...one that is only broadly outlined by what I have posted above...<BR>...one that will take some time...<BR>...one that will allow me to <B>face the facts</B>...<BR>...review what is both fact... and faith... in light of my relationship with God!<P>This final review process (as part of the annulment)...<BR>...as opposed to all the paperwork generated for the divorce...<BR>......(something that dwelled on "materialistic" issues primarily)<BR>......(I see the annlument as completely different than a divorce)<BR>...is the final <I>true</I> cleansing<BR>......and yes... I do believe in my faith offering me that "cleansing" process<BR>......only with proper reflection... <BR>......only with a thorough examination of conscience...<BR>......it's not a temporary illusion...<BR>......it's meant to NOT postpone and imprison all the emotions"...<BR>...that can close out any questions... <BR><B>of what this relationship really was!</B><P><I>"Move On"? Closure?" What do they mean?</I><BR>Yes... of course I'm CONTINUING to move "through" and move "forward" with my life's journey.<BR>But... to hold onto a fictious part of my life... isn't healthy.<BR>Being honest with myself... and recognizing the honesty of "change"... of a "closure"...<BR>...is a necessity! ...to me.<BR>If I don't recognize the change in my journey... I am doomed to continue walking in it's same potholes... and worse... spending useless time remembering those potholes.<P>----------------------------------------<P>OK... <B>K</B>... slam me for the length of this one!!!<P>----------------------------------------<P>Sheba...<BR>...you are a so caring dear friend...<BR>...your words come from a loving and intelligent and caring heart...<P>To answer your question... "How are you REALLY?"...<BR>I will be just fine... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] under His wings... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] time is on my side... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Jim

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Cathartic, wasn't it...

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<B>K</B>... (and <B>Sheba</B>... and anyone else.)<P>What I just posted...<BR>...is just the beginning... of all I need to purge...<P>The process... the annulment process... <B>is</B> a catharsis!<P>It's not the <I>just</I> the destination in this case...<BR>...it's the journey.<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Jim

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Jim,<P>That was AMAZING and beautiful to behold!!<P>WOW!!<P>...and guess what?... it makes me think... not altogether a bad thing [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>...and yes, I missed hearing those words... you are loved too, my friend...<BR>Sheryl<BR>

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Keep purging.....<P>I wanna talk more when I get home from work.....up to it? It is very interesting and touching upon the "roles" subject is going to be very helpful to me (and a lot of others, I am sure.)<P>Love ya....off to work I go!!<P>Sheba

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Much of what I meant in the "roles" area...<BR>...I spattered {in about 4 replies} throughout the post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002273-2.html" TARGET=_blank>Equality in Marriage</A>.<BR>(another <B>very</B> long one...<BR>...and in one which I may have hurt my relationship with <B>The Student</B> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] )<P>One specific occurence...<BR>...as we both were studying for catechist preparation...<BR>...the question of the husband's leadership role came up...<BR>...she nearly died of laughter... and gave me the <B>evil</B>-est eye... I ever got.<BR>...her pride... amazes me to no end...<BR>...and it's now that I see it most clearly.<P>...the post really touches the key element of "roles"...<BR>i.e. <B>mutual submission</B>....<BR>...through accepting different gifts given to us by God...<BR>...not stereotypes!<P> [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Jim<P>PS: working at the church tonight... I'll be back in the AM.<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited March 17, 2001).]

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Jim,<BR>I wanted to let you know I will keep you and your family in my prayers. I ment to reply to you sooner but got caught up in my own problems.<P>God Bless<P>Bob

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