....but it would be at the risk of possibly having my kids be upset with me. I am at another all time low. I am so sick and tired of seeing my exh (who formerly posted here as "Exhausted Man") oozing with happiness with Mia. I am completely pissed off that my kids seem to enjoy her company and want to be at their house more than at mine. It bothers me that my children love to play with her son and even offer to babysit him. I'm angry that they have remodeled the entire house to "her" liking when there was never enough money to do it for me. So given my current state of being, I wonder what would happen if I let out my exh's little secret...? What if I exposed Mia for the adulterous she was while having an affair with a married man, my husband? Maybe the kids wouldn't think so highly of her. Maybe she would sink a few notches. <P>Sorry for the grim post, I'm just so sick of seeing the cheater getting the better end of life. And this is definately not about money. ExH pays me a very large amount of CS/SS so that I only have to work parttime. And here in the sunshine state, it's for the rest of my life or until I remarry (which isn't likely). I gave him 19 years of my life and I feel totally dismissed.<P>

Hi TL -<P>Gosh I haven't talked to you in a long time...I remember that you were feeling much better than this for awhile though.<P>I'm sorry that you hurt so much. I certainly know how it feels to see him settled in for some happiness while you are left in what seems like hell. <P>But you know that anything you do to hurt/harm her or "them" will only backfire onto you. There's no point. Why hurt yourself more.<P>What brought you back to such anger again TL? Do you think it ever really left you or is this a re-occurence triggered by something? <P>Their time will come when their actions will have to be faced - in some manner/at sometime. Not your concern though and only adds to your pain to keep looking forward to seeing it. <P>If you spend time doing that - how much time are you taking away from making some happiness for yourself? You won't lose this pain by making others miserable. It will only keep it alive in you and add more for each hurt you inflict on another.<P>You're better than to lose yourself into that.......<P>Work it through, TL...You know that you made decisions throughout this. Luckily, you have realised where you may have made mistakes that ultimately hurt yourself. NOW, change your thinking to make decisions that will make life better for you. Alienating the kids further would not be one. But you know that and good-for-you for posting here to vent it out.<P>BIG HUGS, Prayers and Strength,<P>Sheba

Hi TL,<P>I'm so sorry for how you are feeling. I remember your story well and I'm so very sorry for the outcome.<P>I honestly don't know if it is beneficial for the kids to know or not. How old are your kids?<P>If it were me, I know that I would most likely tell the kids...but then, that's me.<P>I hope that others will jump in here because I would like to know the pros & cons of the children knowing the truth.<P>Why shouldn't the kids know? Isn't honesty important? Shouldn't the kids know why their Mother hates Mia and why she reacts the way that she does? Maybe it will help the kids to understand.<P>I don't really know if there is a right or wrong answer here.<P>Tired Lady: I hope that you will be able to heal from this. I can imagine how difficult & painful it is for Mia to be taking your place in your former home. Just remember that you will ALWAYS be the Mother to your children. She can NEVER take that away from you. Your children will always love you. Can you re-focus your energy in a more positive manner, and not so much on your exH & Mia? Are you involved in activities or hobbies? Are you doing fun things with family & friends? You still can have a fulfilling and rewarding life. Think of it as an exciting journey to a new beginning. You just need to move forward and release & re-direct your anger to a more positive direction. I know that you can find happiness again.

They don't know yet!? Sooner or later they are going to figure it out (I'm surprised they haven't yet) and then they are likely going to be mad at you for not telling them earlier. <P>How many kids does she have? In an earlier post you referred to her "children" but I have never seen mention of any except one son.

Tanya, Tanya, Tanya...<P>Remember when you tried to use a bit of revenge last year? Remember how you suffered? Remember how, even though it made you feel good when you did it, it made you look foolish and vindictive, and hateful... AND YOU ARE NOT REALLY ANY OF THOSE THINGS INSIDE.<P>Tanya, I know you're in pain, and for that I am so very sorry. Remember, I was there once, with OW#2, who I followed around town like a Private Investigator. I nearly called welfare on her... I know how you feel.<P>Those kids, Tanya, know the truth, even if they don't voice it. I truly believe that.<P>Email me, talk to us, keep posting... but don't do anything you'll regret. There is no life in that.<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheryl<P>

It's only 5:30am here in LA and I'm already typing on here. Oh well. Thanks to all who responded. On the subject of my kids' knowing or not...well they don't know. When exh and I split up and moved to different places, the kids wanted to know why we were getting a D. I told them (without their father present) that we fought all the time and that their dad had an affair many years prior (which was a lie) but some old feelings came back and it was making it hard for me to trust the dad. They do not know about Mia and their father being together before we split up. They think she came into his life after we were separated. That's why they accept her as someone new in their dad's life. Mia has only one child, he's around 7 y/o. Her first H is deceased. <P>I think I have answered all the questions that you all asked. <P>Survivor & Nellie - I agree that the kids should know the "truth" about Mia being with their father. After all, she may not have known in the beginning about him being married, but she eventually found out and continued to be with him. Secondly, I want and need to get the "truth" out to them. It was me who (without their father's knowledge) told them the untruth in the first place. My kids are 18 and 15 respectively. Somehow even with the truth, I don't see them chaning their opinion of her. There is some sort of bonding with her and that kid of hers that leaves me very upset.

TiredLady: You need to understand that your kids know who their mom is and they love her. I can understand how you feel jealous when it comes to their affections. I have an 8 yr. old daughter and a 13 yr. old boy. My ex is engaged (but has been living with her for 4 years) to a woman who has 2 boys ages 13 and 15. My son is best friends with her son. He loves his weekends at his dad's because he enjoys her boys so much. My ex's girlfriend hates me because she met him within two weeks of our seperation and knew that he still loved me (I wanted the divorce). At first she tried to have this wonderful relationship with my daughter. She went to the extent of signing my daughter up for girlscouts on the weekends that they had her and told them that she was her mother. She tried to do volunteer work at the school with my daughter again telling the school she was her mother and that she lived with her. In the end, it backfired and the girlscouts and school threatened to press charges against her. She is so nuts that my ex in-laws don't allow her on their property. Then, she told both of my kids that the reason their dad and I divorced was all because of me and my current husband (which I guess you could say is mostly true). TiredLady, it caused them to dislike her. My son even commented how he's embarrassed of his father because he does everything she tells him to do. He does not set any rules for them (it's all her) and that he could actually SEE how I got tired of taking care of a grown man. They adore their step father and yes they do know how we met. I also explained that how it happened was mostly my fault but that adults made mistakes too. Their grandparents (the EX's parents) even explained to the kids that I had asked for counseling with the ex and tried to get help for our marriage before any affair happened. The kids also remember what kind of a person I was in my first marriage vs. my second marriage. What I'm tried to say Tired Lady is that if you say bad things about Mia (even if they are true) the kids will pull away from you. At the ages they are I really think that deep down they do know how Mia and their father got together. Kids talk. All that you can do is be there for them. Love them, do things with them and when and if they do ask (and they will some day) then I think they do deserve the true. I would bet the questions about how the two of them got together are in their mind and they have a pretty good idea, they just might not be ready to hear the words out loud just yet. Being angry and bitter towards me almost destroyed my ex. It did destroy his relationship with his parents/siblings and it almost destroyed his relationship with his kids. Kids have a tremendous bond with their mother and as long as you keep that bond nobody can change that. One more example. My mom and I get a long ok. Ok for short periods and then she drives me nuts. But, my mom has always been and always is there for me. I love her but like I said, she gets on my nerves if we are together too much. Now, my dad's wife is more "fun" then my mother. Since she isn't my mom she doesn't offer the "motherly advice" and she doesn't nag. I can take her for longer periods of time. I would guess from the outside someone would think I prefer her over my mother. It's just different. I like my step mom, I love my mother. My loyalities are with my mother. What is great about being human is that we are able to love so many people in so many ways. Please try to focus on you and your children, your life and your home instead of their's. You can't let it consume your life. I hope I helped some Tired Lady.

TL,<BR>You know that I am feeling some of the same things you are. But I would suggest you refrain froom telling them. As someone posted, it usually backfires. You say they like her and her family. How do you think it will affect them if you tell them the truth? What if they don't believe you????? <P>Then you have driven a wedge between you and them, You becomes the bitter divorced mom and then how much time do you think they will want to spend with you.<P>Also do you think your attitude towards your x and Mia ar showing through to the kids? If you are depressed and angry, then of course they won't want to be around you. Your x and Mia are still probably on honeymoon and of course everything is wonderful. <P>Wait till reality sets in. Then there may be some awakening by your kids.<P>My kids do know what happend and you know what? They don't seem to care. They know that their mom is their mom and their dad is their dad(at least I'm hoping) and that om/h is mom's husband and someone they have to deal with.<P>And until I get married, if I do, then any woman I am with is my girlfriend and thats about it.<P>What I learned in my counseling session today is that after the divorce, is that I pretty much just have to take it. That SUCKS!!!!!!! But unfortunetly that's what it takes.<P>Bob

I am having trouble understanding how kids of that age could possibly be ok with their father having an affair, if they knew it. My teenagers certainly were not - one of them figured out immediately upon his leaving that he must be having an affair, and hasn't spoken to him since. My oldest felt as if it was a personal betrayal - she said that he knew how she felt about adultery. Of course, I also can not understand how the OW's kids, who are all teenagers, could be ok with their mother living with a married man. My kids certainly wouldn't hesitate to express their opionion, in no uncertain terms, if I were doing something they disapproved of.

Thanks Bob nd Nellie. <P>Nellie - Kids that are my kids ages all think differently as you are well aware. Depending on the home in which they were raised, etc. I will admit that I am very guilty of doing some pretty despicable things to my ex that may very well have been the catalyst for his having an affair. So see, if I did tell them the "truth" about his relationship with Mia, he would also be in a position to explain "why". I'm not sure I want my kids to know my part in all this mess.<P>Sounds pretty selfish huh? I want to punish my ex and Mia but I want nothing to do with the admission of my own failures. I just plain out hate seeing them happy.

But Tanya...<P>It won't be enough... if you tell your kids... it won't be enough. They will accept it (the affair) because they want their father's love. They love you too. They will feel like they're being put in the middle. <P>I say it won't be enough because the next time you're feeling down about their happiness you'll want to do something else. Honey, do you want to get in trouble with the law? You can't keep doing this.<P>Please think about this... <P>I love you. I want to see you happy! This won't make you happy... you know that.<P>Sheryl

Hi Sheryl!<P>I love you too! But at the risk of LB'ing a friend, how the heck do you perceive telling my kids the truth about their fathers' affair will get me in trouble with the law? I have no plans to do anything stupid. I just want them to know their dad isn't Mr. Perfect.<P>Tanya

Because, dearheart... you won't stop there... it won't be enough... that's what I was trying to say.<P>You'll tell your kids. They will be upset, hurt maybe, but will go forward, as kids do. The next time you get hurt or upset about Mia's happiness you'll want to do something else... and you know how it goes... you get a little crazy and the next thing you know you've gone over the line.<P>So no, telling your kids isn't the worst thing you could do... but I'm afraid you won't stop there.<P>Am I making sense? Geez, I hope so!! <P>I want you to be happy, and can't see you getting there until you can GO FORWARD. No more revenge acts. <P>Yes, still love your ex-H, because that's just how it is (like with Nellie and many others on this site, and in fact, that includes me too) but still GO FORWARD - BECAUSE YOU MUST. <P>By the way, I still maintain that your kids already know the truth. Mine did. They knew it all, before we ever talked. It's just too bad, in your case, that your ex won't sit them down and tell them, since it was his choice. I told my kids about myself, and David told them about himself... but they already knew.<P>Hugs, Sheryl

So far I've successfully resisted the urge for revenge. Being on <I>Wellbutrin</I> certainly has helped curb the thirst. <P>My shrink has said that he has seen many times marital breakups with spiralling cycles of revenge and reprisal ... a sort of <I>Mad Magazine Spy vs. Spy</I> played out in real life ... didn't recommend it as a way to live life. <P>Look up the Indian word <I>Koyaanisquatsi</I>.

Tired Lady,<BR>Here's a question for you. What do you hope will happen if you tell your kids? Be honest with yourself even if you cannot write it here. My guess is that you expect them to turn against your xh & Mia in some way. Maybe you'll hope they will completely cut him out of their lives, as Nellie does. Maybe it's just so they'll have an awareness of the real (yet only one sided if you do not want them to know your part) story. But my guess it that you hope their feelings will fall somewhere in between complete ostracization and nothing. <P>Right now you are feeling betrayed by your kids because they like Mia, and they are not offended that your xh and Mia are together. But what would happen if after you tell your kids they do nothing, that the revelation of the affair means nothing to them, or at least it doesn't affect their actions. Wouldn't you feel even more betrayed if this happened? <P>The kids will be put in the middle and they may pull away from you if you nonverbally expect them to change their attitude with regards to Mia & xh. <P>I'm afraid you will end up hurting much worse than you are hurting now. Please try to view all possible outcomes to this situation, and decide if you can handle it if it backfires.<P>I know that you are hurting now and I would want to do the same thing but I would be too worried that I had too much too lose.<BR>

AStrongerMe: Thanks for the reply and the thought provoking questions...<P>What do I hope will happen? Well, honestly I do wish the news would somehow tarnish lil Miss Mia in their eyes. But the fact is, I doubt now it never will.<P>UPDATE: apparently my ex & Mia told the older kids how they met. Not just working but how they became attracted to each other. My daughter (this is hearsay through my ex) says she "understood" how it could happen when married persons aren't communicating. Yeah, that statement from an 18 year old! My son neither cares one way or another. But I wasn't there to hear the entire chain of events and don't really know what was said or not. In fact, I am wondering how the heck he found out about my feelings on this subject. I asked him why he told them now, and all he said was it was a good time in their relationship and he wanted them to know everything before he and Mia get married. Maybe ex has some allies here on this board that tipped him off. It doesn't matter now anyway. <P>Ex told me that he never brought up my part in all of our problems at all. He said he thought it best for them to know how Mia and he got together but not the messy part of our marriage. Geez, maybe he did me a favor.<P>Well, now what? Guess he stole my thunder. I've already talked to both kids this morning and neither one of them said a word about the talk. In fact, my son is just rambling on about Mia's little kid's baseball team and how theres a big game today. UUGGHHH! <P>I think I'm more upset now than before. Like I said initially, why do they get to be so happy?

Please don't tell your kids. It will accomplish absolutely nothing good.<P>You want to tell your children that their stepmother committed adultery with their father. I would bet that they already suspect as much. Of course they care, but they are not willing to give up their father because of it. And they shouldn't have to.<P>What is done is done. You are miserable about it, and I'm truly sorry for that. But will your children's misery ease your suffering? Not if you are a real mother. If you are, their pain will only compound yours.<P>The worst part of my husband's affair was that my children had to be told the truth because of the OW's blackmail attempts. My children's suffering, especially my son's, continues to be a real source of heartbreak for me. And he is 23 years old!<P>Please, please do not do this. I am speaking to you not only as a betrayed wife, but as a daughter who was told of her father's infidelity by her mother. She did it because she wanted me to love her more than my father, but what she SHOULD have done was protect me instead of putting me in the middle of a very adult problem. That is also what you should do.<P>I believe with all my heart that if you tell your children this, you will come very quickly to the realization that you made a horrible mistake. Love your children, and put them ahead of your own jealousy. Because that is all this is.<P>Peppermint

AStrongerMe,<P>What does, "as Nellie does" mean? Did you just mean that my two oldest cut their father out of their lives, which they did, or were you implying, incorrectly, that that was the outcome I wanted? I think it is sad that they no longer have a father. It bothers me that they do not want him to come back, and they think what he is done is completely unforgivable, even if he were to turn around and be completely remorseful. <P>If Tired Lady tells them and they already know, perhaps they will be relieved that they no longer have to deal with the elephant in the corner. If somehow they don't know, it is quite possible that they would feel foolish not to have figured it out. But dishonesty does no one any good. <P>The only thing worse than having to tell your kids that their father was having an affair is what happened in my situation, when my 16 year old told me.

Hi Peppermint:<P>I'm afraid the ex beat me to the punch...he apparently found out I was about to expose him and Mia so he had a talk with our children. I do not know the extent of what was said. I suspect it was the absolute minimum judging from how my kids don't seem to care one way or the other. See my previous post just before yours...<P>But you have written a very stong message. One that I never really considered. You are correct in saying I am jealous. I've admitted that. I would love to take away their happiness without the kids being involved but I know it's not possible. I'm surprised that I still harbor such resentment at their happiness even after two years of this crap. When will it ever end...

Tanya,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Like I said initially, why do they get to be so happy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Here's some Tough Love (as Dobson says)...<P>You don't know how happy or unhappy they are.<P>Life is unfair.<P>The only person who can bring you up is you.<P>God loves you (and take that any way you want: God, Jesus, Goddess, the Universe, whatever).<P>Go forward. Quit looking back. <P>*********<P>Tanya, <P>The woman you are meant to be is inside you. You are beautiful and wonderful and you deserve happiness in your life. You will not find that woman until you let go of this jealousy and move forward.<P>You are the mother of two beautiful children. They will resent you if you continue on this road. <P>You will grow old alone and become a bitter, nasty person. <P>THIS ISN'T WHO YOU REALLY ARE INSIDE.<P>I keep trying to tell you this! Why won't you listen?<P>************<P>I care about you.<BR>I care about your happiness.<BR>I want you to be happy with yourself, in your life, and on this earth.<BR>You're young... you have your whole life ahead of you.<P>Don't give in to this, Tanya.<P>You're better than this.<P>Sheryl<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 17, 2001).]