TL,<P>I am so sorry for what you are going through.<P>{{{{{{{{{{Tanya}}}}}}}<P>Just my 2 cents.I could not tell the children.<BR>[depending on the age of course.]<P>I have to deal w/every other weekend when my children go to their Dad's.[children 8 and 5 ]To find out that he has his girlfriend there w/them.<P>Now mind you,I really honestly don't care that he has a GF.What upset's me is that the time he does have w/his kids,he doesn't spend that "Quality Time" w/them.Chelsea is over at her friends,Ian is in his bedroom playing video games all weekend.That is not my idea of spending time w/their dad.<P>Every time they say....Dad's "friends" name,and what they did that weekend.........I just smile and say that's nice<P>They don't need to know that their dad is a jerk that left them and me for another.In the end they will find out.<BR>But it won't be from me.<P>He is moving next weekend,and I have the disticnt feeling that he is moving in w/her.You know,I wouldn't care if it was just him.I don't want my children being raised w/the notion that it is ok,to live w/someone and not be M.[and so soon after the D.]Them being over there every other weekend and living in that enviroment is not my idea of Quality time,good morals,values,and how I want my kids to raised.<P>I have finally come to the realazation that I need to stop thinking of my XH and how he would feel.[doing what is right for him.I lived 15 years like that and look where that got me.]and start thinking of my self and my kids.<P>I am no longer M to him.I need to live my life for me and my children.<P>You need to do what is best for you.<P>I do feel for you.<P>It will all work out,just hang in there!<P>Gina <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

TL,<P>It will end when YOU let it end. You will never be able to control your ex's life or happiness, nor Mia's either. If you are somehow able to alienate them from your children, they will focus on her child or the children they might have together, and your children will come to resent YOU for the loss of their father.<P>Please, please just concentrate on letting this go. You are not doing anyone any good with trying to find a way to make them suffer as you have. You'll never be able to anyway. Try to find new happiness for yourself.<P>Peppermint

Tired Lady,<P>Have you talked to your kids about the situation? Are you sure that your ex-H was telling the truth?<P>I think it would be horrible if they knew, but thought it was something they shouldn't talk about to you. Too many families have been destroyed by the "family secret" that everyone knows about but everybody thinks they are not allowed to mention. Honesty and openness is just as important between parents and children as it is in a marriage.

TL,<BR>Let this go.....there is nothing to be gained by any conversation about this at this point with your children.<BR>It seems that they know who you are and who their dad and Mia are to them...and it does not seem,(other than the situation itself which is incredibly painful for you, I know,and I am so sorry,) that your kids are being given such poor choices and confusing messages about their lives and the values they should have (adultery and its consequences they will have to deal with only when older and from their own lives at this point)<P>As long as your X is not making life crazy for YOUR children,do nothing to intefere. If they are given choices, asmine are, to do things which do not make sense, then speak up loud and clear.<P>For me the adultery is history. It is the OW who has no parenting skills and offers choices to my kids that make no sense and their father is too uncaring (which older kids do not seem to care much about anyway!!!!) to do anything in any of my children's best interests. THat hurts so much more than his sad life......which I do not envy after 2 years of insanity.<P>Look on it this way...if he is the father to them that makes sense to you as their mother........ and Mia causes them no harm, then why upset the apple cart....???????<P>If X and Mia have no clue what they are doing in terms of parenting, then that is another story. Revenge makes no sense to anyone.<P><BR>

This whole thing is disgusting. I agree with some others that telling them the "truth" will not endear your children towards you. However, these are the facts, as crappy as they are....<P>Virtually all of the children I've met whose parent's marriage ended due to an affair end up accepting the OW/OM eventually. What happens is that they learn that divorcing is ok if you "fall in love" with someone else...or "you can't help who you fall in love with". If you lift a single finger to disparage that relationship, you will be seen as bitter and vindictive. Screwing over the one you promised your life to is completely acceptable today in the name of "happiness". Then, the one left in the dust is told to "make the best" out of it and get on with their life and go find someone new. Oh joy!!<P>Now that really completes the picture for the kids. The cheater is happy, and the betrayed is happy too!! Perfect! Divorce is really a WONDERFUL thing after all! The only thing that would make it even MORE perfect would be for the ex's to be "the best of friends" and the betrayed to be pals with the OW/OM. The OW/OM kids are just like the brothers/sisters your kids never had in their original home. Golly Gee. Everything just works out for the best, doesn't it??

I do not blame you one bit for the way you feel. However, as others have pointed out, there really is no gain to be had in trying to make Mia look bad. The only way to counter the feeling of "why does she get to be happy" is to work on your own happiness.<P>Now that you are on your own, it is time to figure out what you can find joy and happiness in. Do that, and whether they are happy or not will start to seem pretty unimportant.<P>Hugs--<P>Kathi

Here's a few things (pertaining to children) that happenned when my Aunt's H of 25 years, left her for a married OW:<P>~ OW's exH & their teenage child moved out-of-the-state to get away from their Mother (OW) and the bad memories of the affair.<P>~ OW's adult child moved out-of-the-country to get away from her Mother.<P>* Both children couldn't handle the existence of the affair and the rotten choice their Mother made (to leave their Father and stay with OM). They chose to abandon her instead.<P>~ The OM (who is my Aunt's exH), sees his 3 adult children, but the children will not accept the OW. They despise her. For example, when Aunt's exH brings his children out to dinner, along with OW (he & OW live together), the children ignore her or are rude to her.<P>My Aunt's exH & the OW have been together for 8 years (living together for 6). They are still not married and I am told that this bothers the OW. I wonder why my Aunt's exH won't marry her? I'd sure like to know.<P>D-Day and abandonment of my Aunt's marriage was 6 years ago. Despite the fact that the children involved will still NOT accept OW and OM, my Aunt still has NOT moved forward with her life. She is still a very bitter divorced woman (which I can understand).<P>Unfortunately, she still talks about the affair (to others, not her children), as if it were still fresh and new. She will NOT focus on anything else, not even herself.<P>Tired Lady: Please don't let this happen to you. Don't let this engulf you. As difficult as it is, please re-direct your anger more positively. Don't focus so much on your exH & Mia. Remember, we reap what we sow. It won't always be so blissfully happy in Mia's household so let fate take care of that. Time to focus on yourself. It's time for Tired Lady to be happy...time for you to live a ful-filling & rewarding life. Your children will always be your children...you will always have a special and irreplaceable bond with them, regardless of their relationship with Mia. She can NEVER replace you.<P>Please move forward. <BR> <P><BR>

Thanks again for all the replies. I'm feeling a bit better today, not so vindictive and angry. But still nothing is or seems to ever be all roses around here. <P>The Student - you express in words exactly what I feel. I am just not as eloquent with my writing as you are. So true that each day it seems "yippy, everyone is happy, so life just goes on". Well, my life is moving forward -- just without me in it. <P>Nellie1 - No, I haven't talked to the kids about the conversation they had with their father. They will come home tonight. I'm not so sure at this point that I will say anything. I really don't doubt that he told them what he felt they needed to know, just not any of the gory details. I do know they purposely left Mia's kid out of the loop because he's too young to understand. I agree with you that they need the truth from their parents, but at what point will knowing ALL the truth become damaging? I really do need to think about this before I say anything at all.<P>I'm going to call a counselor tomorrow and see about getting some medication. After two years of this crap, I'm not "getting on with my life". You know, sad as this sounds, it's not my exh I dislike so much as it is that OW and her kid. They are the ones that have weasled their way into my ex's life and now my kids like them too. UUGGHHH. Somehow I am still of the belief that ex and I would have worked through this horrible time inour lives if only Mia had not re-surfaced. I am in complete denial that ex had anything to do with pursuing this relationship (as much as I know that is probably true) <P>I will keep telling myself I'll get through this. I'll get through this....Thanks as usual for all the support.<P>

Tanya,<P>You will get through this!<P>Big Hug! <BR>{{{{{{{{{Tanya}}}}}}}}}<P>Hang in there!<P>Gina <P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Tired Lady:<P>Revenge and jealousy can be dangerous emotions and usually always backfire. It is understandable why you feel the way you do...when you hurt that badly it is natural you want to lash out and make the person(s) responsible to feel at least as bad if not double as badly as you do. <P>Don't do it.<P>Be the better person. Don't get mad, but perhaps your kids prefer going to the ex's because his home right now is a little more happier. Kids are smart and can read their parents a lot better than you think. If you are feeling that low, your kids are most likely feeling it. Mia's child, your children...had nothing to do with this. Even so, they have suffered...right now, they probably prefer the enviornment that is appears most secure and happy. With jealous and revenge comes bitterness. It's bad enough that you have lost your home and husband, but don't turn into a bitter angry person. Easy for me to say, but take a step back and try to focus on you and your future.<P>Being disregarded like yesterday's lunch is truly heart wrenching. No offense to men, but they seem to do this with no problem. I often sit back myself and wonder, what the heck was going on all that time? I have come to ask myself is that the kind of person I want to be with...someone who can dismiss me like I was nothing? While you are home crying or tossing and turning for the second straight week...the cause of your tears and pain is out and about having the time of his life...or sleeping like a baby with no thoughts of you. It stinks...but is a fact. I know I don't want someone who can do that to me or someone else...and deep down neither do you. Right now you are sad and hurt, but don't let it take over your life. Life is short and full of wonderful possibilities...you will find those things, but only after you rid yourself of all that bitterness.<P>I wish you luck and happiness and the strength to overcome this.<P>

TL,<P>This will cheer you up...<P>My roommate's father dumped her mother (after being married for about 25 yrs) for another woman. They are married now. Her mother has not remarried, and I understand is still angry. Her father came over once and I had nothing nice to say to him. <P>Ok, here's the fun part. She visits her mom all the time. About once a month or so, and it is about a 5 hr drive. Her mom's picture is on the fridge. Guess what? In the almost one year that she has lived here, she has not visited her dad once. HIS picture is not on the fridge. He calls sometimes, so I know they are on speaking terms, however, he's nowhere close to her mother's status. <P>You can start a new life without thinking that your divorce was "for the best". I doubt you'll ever turn into one of those people that come up with some BS like "it was the best thing that ever happened to me", or whatever, like I hear every so often on this board. I'm also not one of those who think the solution to your problem is necessarily going out and finding someone new. But, you do need to find a way to wake up happy now and then. <P>I learned not all that long ago that it doesn't do much good to be pissed about the way the world is. Facts are that our culture supports infidelity and multiple marriages in many, many ways. You have lots of options, though.

TL,<BR>A friend of mine whose w cheated on him and moved the kids away after the divorce, did nothing but try to drive a wedge between him and his sons.<P>They are both young men now, both in the service. Their mother is now involved in another affair, cheating on the first om who she married. Neither son wants anything to do with her and both sons are now friends with their dad. <P>This isn't exactly like you situation but you can see some similiarities.<P>I did see a video as a requirment of the divorce about dealing with the kids. The xwife was very bitter against the xhusband(I don't remember the cause of the divorce) and wouldn't permit the kids to see the father. Eventually, the father gave up trying.<P>Later on the girls started trying to find him and did and the mother was furious. She ended up breaking off her relationship with the one daughter because she wouldn't stop seeing her father and the other daughter was seeing the father secretively. This was a true story.<P>Just food for thought!<P>As for what Sheryl said about getting in trouble with the law, look at what my anger caused me to do. I am probably very lucky I didn't end up in jail for shoving my x.

TL,<BR>I remember reading your thread on GQ months ago about this situation. I'm sorry to see that you are having a hard time right now.<P>I think you got some great advice. I can relate to how you feel, its hard that the kids accept OW and think she's so wonderful. THey dont' know the truth. I will not tell them either. <P>Their counselor has said since day one, that the best thing for them is to see their parents get along and for both parents not to bad mouth the other, or the OW, or in my case someone I would be dating.<P>So I have not said a bad work about OW to my kids. Its hard to find out that my 3 year old might be calling her Mommy Laura. It still hurts that on the weekends , its like she's playing house with my family. And I got pushed aside. <P>I think that the most important thing is for the kids to be ok ,even though I agree that it still stinks that divorce ends up seeming like its "ok" in these situations. There is nothing ok about it.<P>I just didn't want to become bitter and angry my whole life, because I was pretty bitter at first. The strange thing is I talk to OW on the phone probably once a week, sometimes almost an hour. Sometimes I forget who I am talking to, and she's not so bad. Sometimes, I'd rather deal with her than my ex. Strange huh? I don't really care to go thru her about the kids, but she takes physical care of them more than their dad while there, bathes them, feeds them, bedtime stories, etc, so I have to be thankful that I don't fear their safety while there. <P>Its hard to pretend like it doesn't hurt when sometimes it does, and its hard to accept her, but I had a feeling when this happened that ex was not coming back and once I accepted it and tried to start getting over the anger part, I was able to focus on other things. I would hate to be talking about this as if it were fresh 6 years from now!<P>Be strong, good luck, Dana<BR>

Hey Tanya,<P>Hope your Monday is better than your weekend. <P>I'm gonna tell you what I told Nellie...<P>If you want to love your H until the end of time - do that. Just don't hurt anyone (including Mia) doing it. You are a warm, intelligent, thoughtful woman with so much to offer. Show your ex and your children THAT WOMAN, not the vindictive one.<P>I've talked many times before about Gavin McCloud and his wife Patty. He was on the Love Boat, remember? He left Patty, divorced her, and she joined a prayer group. She and her ladies PRAYED THAT MAN HOME. It can and does happen. But it has NO CHANCE of happening if you aren't lovable in his eyes. It may not happen anyway, but at least you can have peace of mind that you loved instead of hated...<P>...and I do believe in miracles...<P>I hope you have one...<P>I wish you peace TL.