Although I don't think my marriage was a mistake, I think I could be better prepared this time around to choose someone who will meet my needs, while I am able to meet his needs as well. I am familiar with the emotional needs but I am wondering how this looks in dating? I have read a lot about how it looks in marriage. <BR>In my marriage, I seldom put my needs in the forefront -- in fact, my life has been like that. Unfortunately, my needs do not automatically get met. I want to know more about how to get my needs met without making selfish demands. And how can I choose a mate with whom I can establish interdependancy? I love nothing more than to find that I have met a need in my spouse. But I kept putting my needs aside, because I felt it was selfish to ask to have them met. Now my counselor said that I should expect my needs to be met, and 'require' (too strong a word?) them to be met. So how does this look in dating/courtship?<BR>Another related question (should I start a separate thread?) is how dating affects the kids? How soon should they meet my SO? My ex has been introducing them to people left and right (well, maybe only left) -- unfortunately, because they see me as the dependable one, I don't think they will take it as lightly with me. Opinions WELCOMED!

About the kids..it's difficult to say when is a good time<BR>to start introducing them to another SO..<P>My bestfriend who separated from her husband a couple years ago has dated three different men since..all of which her children became attached too..and when the relationships<BR>ended they lost yet another male influence in their lives..<BR>these girls have been hurt each time..the oldest of the two has one advantage over the younger..her father is a stable part of her life..he see's her every weekend..where as the younger one doesn't see her dad but only a few times a year..so she becomes more attached to these men.<P>So looking at it from that perspective, I'd say not to really introduce them to another SO until you have been going out w/ the OP for awhile..I mean..they learn<BR>by our actions..don't let the OP stay the night while the<BR>kids are there only to have them get attached if you know<BR>that it's just a casual sexual relationship that isn't going anywhere..but if your really serious about the person..even then..you should respect your kids and the OP enough to allow them to get to know each other as friends..before you have them stay the night..if you are teaching your kids to WAIT till marriage to have sex..then you should show them that in your own dating life..<P>

Thank you! Yes, I think that too, but my kids have made it through their dad's relationships without any discernable harm. But again, they expect more stability out of me, and may know better than to attach themselves to Daddy's GF because relationships do not last long with him. Also, they do live with me, and they would see any SO of mine more often and have more opportunities to fall in love with the person too soon. So many things are unfair about divorce. Just have to accept these things I guess! <BR>And I agree about the staying overnight bit. We all know that actions speak louder than words!!! <BR>For me it is not about sex, but about the kids seeing me in a close relationship with a man who is not their dad. One thing, I think that because he is open about his relationships (non-sexual as far as the kids know, but affectionate), then they see him as moving on with his life. They have already asked me why I don't date and daddy does. The answer then was that we were not divorced yet, but now that hurdle is almost over!<BR>I was talking with my son today that he needs to make decisions about how he is going to act in dating girls before he gets into the situations. And I was convicted myself, that so should I -- that is, decide beforehand, so that my heart doesn't run away with my reason.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoraP:<BR><B>Another related question (should I start a separate thread?) is how dating affects the kids? How soon should they meet my SO? My ex has been introducing them to people left and right (well, maybe only left) -- unfortunately, because they see me as the dependable one, I don't think they will take it as lightly with me. Opinions WELCOMED! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Can't help much with the first part, sorry.<P>Someone here told me not to bring any men around my kids until we had a wedding date!! I understand now, that it was said for my children's benefit, because my kids are getting quite attached to my boyfriend, and we are very careful to watch how we interact around the kids and show that we are FRIENDS ... they don't need to be wondering if they are going to 'get a new daddy' or anything of that sort!! Mine are 3 and 6 years old, and don't see my boyfriend unless I ask THEM if it is okay if he comes over. We usually watch a movie together and play some board games. I don't act any differently around him than I would around one of my female friends (unfortunately the kids are getting interrogated when they spend time with their dad) and the kids have started asking *me* to call *him* and ask him to come over!<P>For me, it was important for my children to see me interacting with someone who treats me with respect, who does not yell at me and call me names, who does not intimidate or threaten to get what he wants, or choose the 'idiot box' over another round of Candyland.<BR>

Very interesting question.<P>My son's been exposed to the OP for quite some time now, and doesn't like it. Consequently he's expressed his wishes for me not to date until his mother divorces me. Somewhere I read that you shouldn't involve your kids with a new beau until things are awfully serious, which certainly makes sense. A lot of kids (mine included) don't understand why the divorce "had" to happen & want a whole family back very badly. My son is very affectionate and I'd hate for him to become attached to someone and have her split on us like his mom did.<P>I'd recommend keeping your romantic life & your kids life separate for a while.<P>As for getting your needs met, I would hope that in a healthy relationship there would be some understanding that both of your needs should be met. Sometimes you may have to meet the other persons needs before yours, but that should be a fairly equal happenstance. It takes two, and both have to give as much as they take. For me personally, I get as much pleasure from making someone else happy as I do from being made happy by someone else. Maybe more.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

The natural order of things if for children to NOT see their parents involved with someone who is not their parent...remember how we all like to avoid thoughts of our OWN parents in the bedroom...it's even worse to think of your parent "acting all mushy" with someone new. That deep psychological explanation is courtesy of my 10 y.o. daughter.<P>I was 30 when my dad married my stepmom - and it was still a little weird for me to see my dad saying "I love you" and kissing someone other than my mom...and this was 4 years after my mom died - I can only imagine how a 10 year old feels when WS moves out of their home and right in with OP. And I LIKED my stepmom. Ugh!<P>The key to new relationships is taking things extremely slow and very non-demonstrative in front of the kids, I think. That is where WS/OP mess up...they try to recreate the "family atmosphere" they've blown apart - complete with mommy or daddy figures necking on the couch. What's best for the kids is lost in the fog.<P>just my $.02 worth...<P>Lisa

I agree with that, Lisa, and I can't wait until X tries this and to see what happens. Maybe it will work, maybe not, but it will be interesting!<P>OM is the total opposite from me, and probably better for her, much better, and the kids think he is a nice guy, but then, he doesn't play sports, he doesn't have an education, or much of one, but he has a DOG, and a CAMPER, that's the most important part!<P>We'll see, 9 yo D already told gramps, who was baby sitting, that gramps couldn't tell her what to do in her house! yikes, this will be good!<P>and then, if MIL goes into a nursing home, FIL will surely come to live with them, and act as a housekeeper and babysitter, (that's all he's really good for!) we will see how all three of them get along under one roof!<BR>

I was in a DivorceCare recovery group and the video said about dating NOT to do it at all until you've fully recovered from the Divorce. They gave this as a standard... for every four years you've been married it takes ONE year to heal.<P>Man, that's a big time commitment! What do the rest of you think of that?<P>Also, we're not D'd yet but, I just can't imagine how it would be with another person - how do they accept your kids... it's not just about you as a single and free person anymore! Isn't THAT kind of strange?<P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

Sorry -- long reply <P>It is interesting that everyone has focused in on the kids and is neglecting the beginning of the question.<P>I am divorced and I believe my recovery began at the time of the affair even tho I was still living with him. I have studied and counseled on the stages of grief and I have gotten mostly through it -- of course, with some backsteps as we all know can happen. I would say if I went according to the time frame you describe, I have about 6 more months to settle into things before dating.<P>I also want my kids to see me around people who respect me and treat me right. One of the main reasons I was able to leave was not for myself, but realizing that if I continued to put up with degrading and unfaithful behavior I would be sending my boys the message of condoning that behavior. I don't need a romantic relationship tho to have respectful people around me! 2 more cents!!! <P>The sexual part, I do not plan to be an issue. As said above, if I expect celibacy from them until marriage, then I would have to model that behavior as well. <P>I wonder if it is beneficial for the kids to wait until AFTER I make a permanent decision (engagement) when I bring them into the picture. I would think I would have to see how my SO and they interact. So waiting for engagement sounds too long to me. But I understand that issue and concern.<P>And I reiterate, that my x has involved the kids in his relationship(s) and they are fine with it. They even encouraged me to get started dating (as I said above) but I am in agreement with many of you that it seems better to wait. And involve them only after we become at least serious. I would rather err on the side of caution, and not worry them unnecessarily over becoming involved with someone. We all have people come and go in our lives, but I think too much of the father/mother figures coming and going is different from the common changes in friendships.<P>Nick - yes in a healthy relationship both our needs should be met. I know I was in an unhealthy relationship before, where I constantly worked (imperfectly of course) to meet needs and where he always waited to have his needs met before it was my turn. How do I avoid that trap? When is it long enough to say that it is my turn for the needs to be met. As I said above, I feel great when I know that I have pleased the One I love, but that only goes so far when my needs are always on the back burner.<P>I just read somewhere that if you put everyone elses needs ahead of yours, that God will work it out. What is that supposed to mean? I tried that. And I got it in the face. It is easy to be walked on when we think never of our own needs and always put ourselves behind. But isn't that the Christian way -- J-O-Y -- Right? Jesus , Others, You. So how does that translate that I ever get to me. I admit to great confusion over this issue. I believe that the Bible has the answers, but I also know that I am not perfect at the interpretation of His Word. I am not trying to be sacriligious (sp?) or impertinent, but I am honestly seeking God's way in this.<P>Again, how do I ask for my needs to be met without making it a selfish demand? Maybe I should be asking people in recovery this question.

Have you figured out what your needs are? If not..then work on that so that when you do begin to date you'll know what it is you need from the relationship..and not just the .. Oh he makes me feel good..you'll be able to discern which needs the person meets and which ones they don't..and if they meet your most important needs or not..<P>

Yes, between here and books and counseling I do know my needs. So if someone does not meet them all, does that mean they are out? I may sound naive, but I know no one is perfect. So, can I ask or is it over when I find that there are needs (significant ones) which they do not meet? And just let's say that the dating person meets those needs but once we marry I discover some unmet need (which often happens as we -- unfortunately -- settle in for the long haul.) How do I ask for that?

So I did notice that everyone migrated to the 2nd part of your question as well...and since I don't have kids I migrated to the first part. Funny how that works <P>Anyway. I have started dating lately and since I am better in tune with who I am and what my needs are I have attracted a totally different type of man. Funny how that works. But one that may have a better clue and chance in meeting my needs. In fact I may go so far to say one that catches on quicker to what the needs might be. So you may not have to ask....they may ask you. But if you feel awkward about asking to me that would be a flag. I too put my STBX needs ahead of mine...and so did he...so then there was nothing left for me. I won't sacrifice like that again and there is nothing wrong with having some fun in life...I always tell myself that I was not put on this earth to cater to my husband. It's a partnership...I had forgotten...it's great when you remember

If you are in touch with yourself, understand yourself, and understand your needs, one can pretty easily figure out if the person can meet your needs or not. Its an EXCELLENT benefit of the Harley methods.<P>However, you must ask THOUSANDS of probing questions to satisfy yourself that YOU can meet their needs, and the FOO issues doesn't make them a high risk candidate.<P>Only then will you be satisfied. Take a trip together, put them in your world. put them through all the tests you can think of. Take them to your counselor. Go to a retrouville weekend with them. Go on a Harley cruise.<P>Tell them that Openness and Honesty is high on your list of needs. If they can't answer the questions, forget it.<P>Have them take the Harley EN questionnaire. HAve them take the personality test, then read up on the needs of this personality, and see if you can do them. Read what the difficulties are between your personality and theirs, and see if they aren't too much for you to overcome.<P>this is more scientific, but i wouldn't trust what they say every again. BTW, i am on the personality compatible list of a possible female friend, so that is a plus, as well as she has a similar background to me. OK, she's not perfect, but hey, she's fun and cute. We have both read up on the personalities of each of us to understand the other, kind of knowing what we are getting into.<P>good luck!

Nora,<P>It sounds to me like you look at things very similar to the way I look at them and your ex was similar to mine. <P>I'll try to answer both questions . I have been dating the same person for almost 9 months. In the beginning, he always met all my needs. It was fantastic and we became very close. Somewhere along the line, life becomes complicated, you meet each other's kids, you even talk about a future, and complications cause confusion.<P>Realistically, why would we commit to one person if they were not meeting our needs. I don't care to do this the next time around, but I know my needs as well, they are primarily, attention, conversation, honesty and openness, admiration and recreational companionship. The sexual fulfillment, to me has always be a "given" if both partners needs are met, you will both get fulfilled in that area. The women that I know are not able to be sexually fulfilling if they feel that is all they are there for. <P>Maybe I got off subject, but first, why commit to one person if they are not going to be expected to meet your needs, married or not. Second, in dating, its kind of hard in my opinion to get all this out in the open. In courtship, if I am thinking of this the same as you (where your working on this as a future partner?), than definetly expect it.<P>I can't tell for sure if you've begun dating or not yet, but once you do date, especially the first person after the divorce, you can get very caught up in the affection or attention of someone new. They make you feel worthy or like a person again, after being cheated on, especially. Sometimes, its very hard to stick to that no sex unless we're married thing. <P>It's also hard to stick to the "don't introduce the kids until your engaged", because when men are trying to get to know you, and your a single mom, your kids are there A LOT. You start wanting to see this person more, and you get to a point where your kids are with a sitter too much or you feel ready. <P>The kids are a touchy subject, and currently I'm in a relationship where we met the kids, on each side and things were going well, but when other confusion arose, we took them out of the equation for now. They each know the other exists, we know that we can get along with the other's kids, but we have to work on our relationship now and be sure its going to be ok before letting the kids get attached.<P>Dating is very hard. It brings up so many questions, and so many different opinions. Realistically, I'm sure it does take a long time to heal for each year of marriage, but to someone who might be in their 40s and married a long time, are they supposed to wait 10 years? I don't think thats realistic.<P>I will say that dating before all the issues are brought out in the open is very very hard. But once you meet someone you "click with", its also just as hard to think straight like you used to.<P>Good luck,Dana<BR>

Hi Nora,<P>My case is a bit further along the line than most, my kids are raised and educated. The two that are married appear to have made good choices and are doing the things they need to do to keep a marriage together.<P>As custodial parent, I'm still single after seventeen years. I chose, and many of my friends chose to limit my dating life to when my ex had the kids. Nothing honorable about that to begin with, the only woman I was dating was ex's best friend. She died of a massive stroke about four years after the divorce. Then everything else just got more important than dating, getting the kids through college, weddings to pay for, helping with down payments on their first homes, etc. It is only in the last couple years that I've tried dating seriously.<P>There is a reason why many of the posters here took the focus off dating and put it on the kids. It took a while to get this thought this thick head of mine. The welfare of the children and the family as a whole is far more important than any one person, in particular far more important than any relationship with a SO.<P>The frequency of physical and sexual child abuse by a step parent is six times greater than with a natural parent. The frequency is seventy four times greater with Mom's SO. Good old "uncle charlie" leads the field of child abusers.<P>Prayers and stuff<P>Bumper

Very interesting...

I'm glad you posted, NoraP. I too do not have kids, so was drawn to the first part of your question. I think many have given good food for thought.<P>My concern is, however, that when I married the first time (my STBXH), I thought I knew THEN what kind of person he was. At the time, he seemed to meet my needs. He was a very different person then than he has been over the past two years....he really changed (mid-life crisis). It's easy to look back in hindsight and say "well, maybe I should have noticed that then, or this then...." but at the time, you don't see things.<P>And you can't (or at least I can't) approach a relationship/dating situation with a totally scientific, logical approach. The emotions always get involved. I am not attracted to men I have no emotional connection with, so I have to really try to keep that emotional stuff out of the decision-making process, but it also has to be there.<P>I feel like I'm in the same boat....not ready to date yet, but thinking about this stuff. I am somewhat scared of not making a good choice (this assumes that my first choice was not a good choice....but at the time, it seemed to be a good choice.) But I also do feel like I've learned a bit more about what my needs are and how to meet others needs better. But how that looks in dating....hard to say. I guess you'll just have to take a need - say affection or conversation - and watch for it in whatever situation you're in. The guy with his kids, with others, does he touch you in any way, does he listen and ask you questions.....etc.<P>I think the next time around, I will be more aware. I HOPE I'll be more aware. <P>Good question....<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Well, well! Thank you all for your thots. I think I should have made this two separate threads!<P>The Kids -- okay. You have me convinced. And Bumperii you scared me to death!!! <BR>I also thought that the best idea was to wait. Am I selfish for wanting some personal happiness? But I certainly cannot get it at another's (my kids in particular) expense!! So dating just on my 'off' weekend etc sounds good. I HATE to get a sitter and lose time with my kids. In any case, I have not heard even one person say that they regretted waiting! But some of you have said you regretted the kids getting involved too soon. Another one of those waiting issues -- if it is real it can last through the wait. Although, I can't see myself alone for almost 20 years (my youngest is 2 )<P>As for the dating part, let me try to condense what I have gleaned from all your helpful comments. People are imperfect and therefore will meet our needs imperfectly. Despite that, we can expect them to nearly approximate our most important needs. If not, then we better move on to other pastures, unless we want to get back into a fated relationship. We might as well start this off with someone who is willing and able to meet our needs. Then when the river gets rocky, we have the best chance of making it together. So I better get used to knowing my own needs and reading others' so that I can see if it is possible for me to meet theirs.<P>Thanks everyone!!