[QUOTE]Originally posted by HopelessinAZ:<BR>[B]Cantletgo,<P>Well for your own sake you will need to learn to let him go. I don't mean let him go to D him but to let go of this person he has become. As hard as it is to think about and/or do the best thing you can do is move on with your life. Ignoring H and his rude behavior as much as possible. The more you cling and allow yourself to be emotionally vulnerable to him the more he will continue to hurt you.<P>As far as meeting his needs. Girl, you can't right now he won't let you and he doesn't want you to. Work on yourself to make him the person he wants to be with. Don't worry so much about meeting his emotional needs right now that can come later when he is ready.<P>I know that taking the steps towards separation like seperate accounts, your own credit card etc seem like you are conceeding to the D but I think what you will find is that it makes you feel a bit more in control. Right now you are letting your H control you because you so desperatly want him. He sees this as manipulative and controlling. give him as much space as possible. You need to back off so he can fall to the bottom on his own. Then and only then can the recovery process begin.<P>Stay focused on today. Don't worry about what if and what might have beens. You can't do anything about them and they take a lot of energy. Go visit your relatives, get away, regroup, refocus, do something nice for yourself. Don't worry that OW will move in on him while you are gone. Let her. Read Orchids posts. She did a good job of letting H go and guess what. He came back. They are heading up the long road of recovery now.<P>One more thing to add, I don't think he is bluffing. At this point he really thinks D is the only way. Let him continue in that direction. I bet that he will have a hard time actually carrying through with it. If you start acting like you will be okay without him and that he can go ahead with D he may just wake up and see that he is about to make the biggest mistake of his life.<P>Unfortunalty my STBX is not into self reflection at all and had already detached himself so far by the time he let me know that he was unhappy that I had no chance. I had to let him go. I have come so far on my own personal journey that the impending D does not frighten me anymore. I still morn the loss of my marriage and a loving relationship but I also know that I will be okay on my own. I refused to let STBX define who I was. The D is a reflection on his weakness as a person not on me. I am learning how to embrace the pain and grow from it. It can be done.<P>Cant Let Go,<BR>I am going through the same situatuion you are . I don't want my marriage to end and it scares me that it will and I won't have any way to stop it. But what AZ is saying makes sense. Maybe it is time I start to take back some of the control I have given, because I desparately want my wife back. I feel like I have given in on everything and lost my self respect in the process. That's not good. I am a good man, who misses his wife very much. I just made a few mistakes and I just want a chance to correct them, like you.<BR>It is all about not expecting anything. When you expect x to happen when you do y and it doesn't, you are much more hurt and disappointed than if you didn't expect anything at all. Just try things to try them not that they will solve any of your problems. And try to have fun, no matter what. I guess I am starting to understand that you have to let love go and if it comes back to you, you can keep it and if it doesn't you will always have the memories. However, being strong enough to do it is another matter entirely. Like you, I miss being close and affection and kissing and doing things together, being comfortable with each other, etc. <BR>All I know is that there are no right or correct answers or decisions, there are things that you decide that you are comfortable with. I am trying to get comfortable with the things AZ suggested. It is hard...because I don't want a divorce no more than you do. I am just trying to take it one day at a time. Take Care...Chase.<BR>P.S. There is no reason you can't go to counseling on your own. It might help.<BR>

Chase: Hang in there. I think you're further ahead than me in the acceptance part. It is so tough. I feel like there is such a gap between neutral and negative & I keep rolling down that hill. I crave positive. I want to reach the top! But you have a point about doing things without expecting results.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Hi Clg,<P>Been busy in meetings all day long. You are sounding a bit better. These ups and downs will happen. Knowng this helps the prevent some of the shock but you will still feel the pain. I don't have a quick remedy but you will need to cultivate patience. This was hard for me. <P>Keep posting here. Helping others in similar situations is good. Therapuetic for the soul. I don't have a whole lot to say (wow that's a surprise!!!) but you appear to be doing ok. <P>Doing things around the house is good. Don't allow him to treat you as the doormat yet do what you can within your power to keep things up at home. Yes, those men at work are going to really get on your nerves and I'll bet they don't even know how much this is bothering you. <P>I finally let my boss know what was happening to me at home and he was very supportive. My boss is a very demanding perosn and my job as one of his managers is also very demanding. High exposure type of job which if there are errors could cost the company hundreds of thousands of dollars +. So there is great stress on me at all times. I told who I felt I needed to, asked them to respect my wishes and found them to be supportive. I did not tell them everything just enough so they knew I was not kidding. I am a bit of a joker (helps me handle stress better and not make a big thing out of nothing) but they all knew I was serious and actually had a hard time smiling for about 3 months. Just by that everyone knew something was wrong with me. <P>Anyway, hang in there and post when you can. <P>L.<BR>

trying to forget<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Cant,<P>You can't meet someone's needs if they won't let you meet them. I wish I would have realized this about 2-3mths ago, I might be better off.<P>You need to do a 180 degree turn, now. You have to confront your fears, like I am trying to do about taking a stand or making a change.<P>I know what I am suggesting sounds like an impossible task. I am saying you need to stop. Stop bringing his lunch to him, stop doing anything for him, go out as much as possible. This way it makes him wonder what you are doing.<P>You have an easier time doing this, because he will see this change since he is living their with you. It will be much harder if he moves out.<P>As for separating the accounts, etc. I wouldn't fight him on it but I wouldn't help him do it either. Make him do all the work. Only do what he "specifically" asks you to do. Don't react to generalities. <P>Giving in on everything all of the time isn't answer. You have to have boundaries. Just be ready for the consequences and have no expectations either way.<P>Good Luck, <BR>Chase<BR>

cantletgo,<P>You sound better! Yes, it is hard to do these things but the pay off can be pretty good.<P>I wouldn't continue to cook for him either. Sounds like most of it is going to waste anyway. If he is there and willing to join you for dinner then by all means cook. But cooking extra so there are leftover if he chooses them is not necessary IMHO. <P>Okay, next question is do you have weekend plans scheduled?<BR>Gotta keep busy girl. Like Chase said, if you are out and about it will make them wonder what you are doing.<P>Breathe, relax, one step at a time. <P>

Chase: <BR>I am so afraid to 180 that way. If I stop the housework stuff & all, he will take that I dont care about him at all & have given up & would probably let go on his part & file for D. Right now it gives me some solace that he is still in our own home & still asking me about some things. Sorry if this is stupid. I do not feel in control.<P>Hopeless & Orchid:<BR>I edited my last post above this am. Had to quit last might when H came back. Please read it again. I am starting to panic & cant think straight. I had thought they were no longer speaking & it really looked that way, but I think theyre coming out at the same time yesterday was no accident. And her being dressed up? Pleeeze! She usually looks like she should be waiting behind an elephant with a bucket. Therefore her "I'm just one of the guys" defense. What happened to that yesterday. Oh well.<P>I did not apply for leave early enough so I will not be going out of town this weekend. I know I need to do something. Go wander the streets I guess. No, I'll go visit the friend whose husband got sick. (He's home now) for a while.<BR> <BR>I am more worried about my H actually bringing home real papers to split up our $, house etc. If he does, do I sign willingly or tell him to have an attorney draw things up? Help!! I earn less than half of what he does. Early on he said I had to let him go & he would leave me everything. (I think that was a test if I were only married for the $ as he thinks (or suspect OW of an EA told him I said - its a lie). More recently he said we'd split it 50/50. But there are retirement accounts & life insurance policies also. God, I dont want to think of this. I guess I have let him make me panic. He might not do anything but I have to have a plan if he does for real<P>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 24, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 24, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 24, 2001).]

cantletgo,<P>Your H will waffle in and out of the relationship with OW as he struggle to deal with it. He doesn't seem ready to recommit to the marriage right now so don't push.<P>I advise you to speak to a lawyer, some have free intial consultations. You can at least ask some questions and get some answers. Knowledge is power. There are several websites that offer general information and may be a good place to start. Again, I'm not directing you to these places to encourage your D but I see panic starting to set in with you again and that won't help rebuild your marriage. You need to remain strong. One website is divorcenet.com, I think. Or just do a search using divorce as the keyword. Just get information. You don't have to act on it. <P>Most attorney advise you to set up your own account anyway to protect yourself so let him split accounts. Come up with a budget for yourself for monthly living expenses and make sure you have enough to live on.<P>Kids are ready for breakfast so I need to go. Will check back in later.<P>(((((((((Hugs)))))))))))<BR>Take Care.

p.s. Is there anyway you can afford a counseling session with the Harleys throught this website? Think it would greatly benefit you at this time.

tried twice to respond but he has come over to my desk & I had to shut it off quick. I overheard him talking to a guy here at work who is going thru nasty D fight. H was saying he was going to split things 50/50 & the guy was telling him "You dont owe her any spousal support". Dear God!!<P>I told him to please not dicuss our stuff in public & he accused me of telling everyone. I told him I only talked to HER after she told me (that he said I didnt love him & was only married for comfort etc). He says not to mention her that she's a NON ISSUE!! That she went to him (after I told her back off) & said she was only trying to help & wouldnt be involved anymore. (Bull, I've seen them talking several times since then. It had tapered off considerably until yesterday). He said we had problems before then (true) but they got worse when he started confiding in her. He says he tried to tell several times we were in trouble. NEVER! He used to say wed give it another chance but never made any changes just cursed at me. I didnt believe him & never changed either. I did NOT know until she told me what he said!! He said "dont worry about her, she is nothing". <BR>I said I hope you really believe that.<P>There went the ping pong ball again. How whats done is done & I need to let him go & we need to seperate our accounts etc. He said he wouldnt hurt me & I wasnt losing anything. I told him he has already hurt me and yes I am losing our marriage. He said we never had a marriage. I said we had alot of good times & he said "maybe YOU did". I told him I am already having trouble with this policy stuff at work & cant cope with anything else right now. He didnt care. he said we'd talk at home. But its always the same circle. Ive tried to say how I feel but he wont really listen or believe me that I really do love HIM. Or that our conflicts will change from being a violent cursing exchange to something more moderate without contempt. He wont believe me. He says Im selfish & wont let him speak. But he nver says anything else besides the above- done is done, he doesnt love me, doesnt feel anything etc. He never ever told me the truth from his heart, still! He never told me what he was thinking all these years til I had to find out from her. Now hes convinced its over & too late. I want to hold on to our home in case he has a change of heart & wants to come back. But I am really afraid that he will run out & marry someone else right away. He doesnt realize the start of all of this was not me but STRESS, and that it will still be with him. I tried to tell him his problems wont be gone from his life just because I am, but he will NOT believe me. <P>My hands are shaking. I am so brokenhearted. SO now I am supposed to cooperate with him in all this & let him go.? Help him move out (if he actually tries) with a loving smile on my face?? I found the SA book in the store & read it. Still dont have a grasp on the Plans fully. But he adamently denies any reliance on her even in past for anything. Says its from before that. He is not willing to go to counseling & has NO belief that theres anything worth salvaging in this marriage. He is adament about it. Stubborn. <P>So far the only thing he has actually done is ask to consolidate our phone bills (local & long distance) into one. But I feel he will take actual action on stuff over the weekend. Shoot I shouldve left to go out of town!!. But he is planning all this in his mind & has been asking people who've been thru divorce stuff anyway, behind my back. I cant do this. I am a basket case! I dont know how to appear strong when I'm dying inside. <P>Pray for me. I'm not sure if I will be able to post here much more in the next few days.<BR>I think he has an out of town work meeting tonight.(truth).

our home needs alot of loving care, previous owners did not maintain it. H used to love doing this, but now H says he's only doing the minimum to sell house. <P><BR>But I've learned too late that he perceived things differently & now its too late? How I wish he would accept & believe that I do love him from my very soul. Just because a person doesnt feel that giddy initial infatuated feeling doesnt mean its not love. Its about accepting a person with all their faults, a decision, a committment, a choice. ANd I choose love as heartbreaking as it is right now.<P>My whole world is at an end. I can only pray that he changes his mind I have nowhere to go, and noone in the world to lean on for support. <p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Hi,<P>No fault state generally means you can get a divorce for any reason. You can ask for alimony and division of property/assets/liabilities are usually 50/50. <P>In CA, alimony is based on income. If your H makes more, he will pay on a scale. If you make more, you could end up paying him on a scale. So much for women's libbers movement. <P>Now you need to separate your material possessions/needs from your emotional needs. NOTE: both are important but separate the 2 so that you can focus clearly. <P>Consider the following questions:<P>1. Stay with H and take whatever crumbs of attention and abuse to keep the house? May be good financial move but how will it affect you emotionally?<P>2. Sell the house, divide the assets and liabilities move on, make a new life for yourself (with or without a divorce maybe with legal separation). May be good emotional move but how will you survive financially?<P>These are heavy questions. Think about these first. More will come later. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

I would try to do whatever it takes to keep him from moving out while you work on Plan A. If he does leave, you both need to discuss finances and what it would take for you to stay if that's what you want. I really don't have any advice other than to say I've been in your shoes and I agreed to sell our home. A year later we are back together and we bought another house. There is hope. Hang in there and do try to talk with someone. It really does help.

Cantletgo,<P>I wish with all my heart that I had an answer to share with you. I wish that you had one for me,too <P>Anyway, I have done a lot of thinking over the past 7 months during my separation and I will tell you that you must be one the to decide what to do. We can provide suggestions and you can read books on divorce/separation/martial problems until you can't see straight. But only you can make the call. You are the expert on your relationship and no one else is. <P>I went into everything that I did with a clear conscience. I knew that it may not accomplish anything. However, I know that I am in a better place than my wife is in the since that I know I have tried everything that I could and she can't say the same. She knows what she has done and I know that she has some difficulity with it now and she might have more with it later.<P>Do I want her to have that kind of pain? No, but sometimes love must be tough. You can't always be a doormat or give in on everything.<P>Am I saying you have to change everything overnight? No...just go slowly...Start by not fixing his lunch for a fixed number of days, for instance one week. See what happens. It may do nothing and then again it may make him wonder what is going on. Then if he asks you why you aren't making his lunch anymore, you can tell him you love him but you won't allow him to take advantage of you anymore.<P>You are in the same place I was for the past 4-5 months. I was so afraid to confront my wife on issues I knew I should confront her on it left me in an indecisive and blubbering state. This is not a good place to be. You can't be afraid to make decisions because you are afraid you will cause the divorce. Just because you decide to do anything,doesn't mean you have to be the one to file for divorce. Make him do it.<P>As hard as it is you must confront your fears. What is the worst thing that can happen? He might leave you. This is something you don't want to happen, but the world will go on and you can continue about your life. I am not saying this is what you want or I want, but sometimes the things you want are not the things you can do.<P>I understand your feeling about the house. To tell you the truth, I feel 100% better since I moved out and let my wife move back in. She gets to confront the memories everyday that I had to confront over the last 6 months. It is giving me a break. I am sleeping much better and I know she isn't. Is it how I want it to be? No, but I am taking it one day at a time. Will it do me any good to continue to pay on a place where I am not living and not be able to afford to get a place of my own? No. I starting to realize that it is just a house. I know you feel secure as long as you have it, because you feel it is the only thing you have left. But, it is just a house. If you reconcil you can always get another one. People are what matter. Not things and not possessions. <BR>I knew when I left my house I might never live there again or see any of my possessions again. I accepted it and I do not regret it.<BR>Just because you decide to say goodbye for now, does not mean goodbye forever. I still have hope that my wife and I will reconcile someday, but it doesn't mean I can allow myself to stop living until it happens. It doesn't mean I will do myself any good by allowing her to walk all over me and let her have the best of both worlds. <P>I wish her all of the luck to find whatever she is looking for, it just shouldn't come at my expense.<P>And it shouldn't come at yours either.<P>Good luck and know that I am praying for you and your husband. Hope you will do the same for me. Always, Chase.<P>P.S. You might try reading Divorce Busters by Michele Weiner<BR>and Love Must be Tough by Dobson. Someone else suggested to me Controlled Separation....<P>P.S.P.S. Email me if you need to talk.<P>

My opinion differs GREATLY from everyone else here. If we heard of a woman being physically abused we would tell her to run for the hills and to get away from her abuser ASAP. This man is EMOTIONALLY abusing you and if what you say is all true then it appears he gets off on abusing you to see how much you will take or to hear you continually begging him not to do this or do that. At least that is what i am getting from your post's. I know people say things in the heat of the moment or cheating spouses say things that hurt the betrayed when in the fog but his verbal/emotional treatmeant of you is revolting. And he does it because he KNOWS HE CAN. Because he know's you won't do anything and it WILL CONTINUE. I know you are in a great deal of pain but the pain get's easier with time when AWAY from the abuser. Seeing him everyday only keeps you in your painful prison. Plan A is about working on YOURSELF, to better yourself for you and usually the spouse notices. But from your post you sound so unhappy with everything including yourself. I think it is time to look inward and to see, why you really feel that you have to stay NO MATTER WHAT. Everyone here knows that no matter how much begging, pleading or talking you do to a person in the FOG that they won't GET IT until they are ready to, and your H has made it plainly aware that there is nothing that he wants more than to torture you emotionally. It is time to call his bluff, Plan B is the only way your H will see that enough is enough. It is time to stop talking and start ACTIONS.

letting go of some things, not H.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cantletgo:<BR><B>I have not the heart to cut him off cold turkey. I still sense a slight flip flop from him. He thinks Im up to something & Im not. Hes always looking at my computer when he comes over here for something dumb. He is gone out of town for a mtg that may keep him overnight & said hed call if he was driving back. I told him he could leave a msg on the machine & he asked "Why, where are you going to be?" I told him likley the gym. He thinks I am pretending to change, but I'm not. He is very insecure & actually very needy. You are right in the sense I need to work on meeting my own needs!<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>But what we are trying to say is that as long as you don't "cut him off" he will continue to flip-flop. Getting the both of you nowhere but more frustrated and probably D.<BR>The problems you two face did not happen overnight. One day of not bringing his lunch will not cause him to come running back to you. <P>Keep working on yourself. If you keep up on the workouts, the housecleaning and the yard etc he will <B>eventually</B> get the message. It will take time though.<P>Good for you for identifying how you contributed to the problems in your marriage but remember this one thing.... You did not cause him to have an A that was his own desicion. A very misguided one and one that will have lasting effects on the both of you. There is no excuse for what he did to your marriage!<P>Glad to hear you are getting in to see a counselor. Let us know how it goes.<P>Take Care.<P>

those of you with faith, pray for US.!!<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 30, 2001).]