Hi. I feel I know so many of you by now. I've been in and out of the MB site for a couple of years, and I see the growth that has occurred here. I wish I could say the same for myself. Oh, I'm sure I have grown through my self-inflicted emotional torments and conquests. It's just so hard to see yourself objectively, especially when the chips are down, really down.<P>I filed for divorce about a week ago. (We've been separated since last July.) My husband is involved in yet another affair he thinks I don't know about, and I can see how poisonous my marriage will be to me if I "hang in there" like I have always done. It's like death of a dream. You know, I got married later than most women do. Prior to that, there was nothing more I wanted to do than to get married and have babies. Call it the traditional girlie dream, I guess. <P>I was talking to an old friend of mine last night. He is having difficulties in his marriage of 30-odd years. He is clearly not as vested as his wife is in fixing it, and fancies himself moving out with little more that a tent, sleeping bag, and cooler. He said he was OK with that scenario. I have to admire his ability to detach like that. I've heard a lot of heartache coming from men here on this board, yet it seems to me they let go much easier, if not quicker, than most women do. Now, don't club me over this if I have misperceived. I am interested in being able to detach and drift off like some men (and admittedly some women) are able to do. That would be nice, wouldn't it? Dream on.<P>I thought my husband was a master at detachment, but now I no longer think so. He detached long enough from me to attach to someone younger, prettier, and with a MUCH nicer house than he has enjoyed for the past 14 years. He lies, he cheats, he is terminally defensive, and he is an alcoholic. Why the hell do I miss him and want him so badly? Is it because he dumped me and not the other way around? I can't see his behavior being any different if I was the dumper instead of the dumpee, really.<P>I guess I'm looking for someone who has the magic wand (come on, cough it up) that, when waved over me, will make my pain go away for good. I'm scared, lonely, self-absorbed with no self-esteem, and hopeful like many of you are. I'm not hopeful for my marriage any longer (though fantasies do seem to creep in unexpectedly), but I'm hopeful for the future. I want to survive, and then I want to be successful in another place, with another job, and looking at other faces. I want a fresh start, a clean slate so to speak. To put this all behind me seems to be a daunting task, yet I know it can be done. <P>How do you survive emotionally and stay focused on the future? How do you detach from lost love, and what has been so familiar for so long? Is it an automatic process? Where do you find your hope? How do you maintain your dignity and maturity? How do you know that what you are doing is the right thing, and you are doing it the right way? I know I'll eventually find out, just like I'll eventually get divorced. It feels like a soiled band-aid is getting ripped from my skin, slowly, but it can't stay on because it's infected and no good. It hurts so much to remove it though.<P>Love,<BR>Nell

Nell,<P>For me it has been to re-establish a relationship with God. It has done absolute wonders for me over the past two years. While the pain is still there, looking at it through a faithful perspective, I can actually be a little thankful for the pain - for often through pain and difficulty we are able to grow so much. I have learned so, so much about love, about relationships, about marriage and about myself. But the learning did not come easy - first I had to truly admit to myself that while I have some control over my life, it is He that truly guides us all.<P>I saw a cute little roadsign the other week that read "If God is your copilot, move over and let Him drive"! So true.<P>As for males being able to "let go" and detach easier, I have to respectfully disagree. This has been one of the hardest things to do in my life. I don't think it is the sex of the spouse that counts, rather it is how each spouse looks at marriage and the relationships. I think the ones that can so easily "let go" and leave a relationship without looking back, need to seriously evaluate whether they ever really dedicated themselves to the marriage in the first place. The more you loved, the harder it is to get over it and in some ways you never do... I truly believe that every girl/woman I dated seriously (and married) will forever hold a special place and a piece of my heart. Even the ones that hurt me over the years - once I forgave them it was much easier to treasure the memories we shared...<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Nell,<P>Okay--well, I wasn't going to tell anyone that I had the magic wand, so SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! (Wave, wave, wave)<BR>There. That should do it. You are now tall. Oooops!! That wasn't your wish, was it? Sorry! <P>Nell, I'm sure you know that there is no magic wand, but we sound a lot alike. I've been married for 13 years (together for 15 years), and I have resently found out that throughout our entire marriage my H has been having affairs: we've counted nine so far! I have to admit, I kind of suspected, but I thought they were EAs and would just fizzle out, and I thought that someone he flirted with them, but loved me. Apparently he is addicted to the "being in love" feeling--Whatever. <P>My point, though, is just to empathize with you that I have also found the "death of the dream" the hardest part to deal with. When my H left me last year to actually LIVE with his latest OW, that was when it became real to me that the marriage I dreamed about was not real. Not that I lived in a daydream or anything, but I just knew I was faithful and I loved him, and he was married to me. I thought I was the one he REALLY loved, and I thought I was special and important to him. But when he walked out, it was like being slapped in the face with reality. I would say that it took me several months to finally realize that the underlying sad feeling that always seemed to be there was mourning the loss of the relationship I THOUGHT I HAD. <P>From that point forward, I treated it exactly like a death, and it was kind of comforting. I mean, I had a "funeral" type ceremony for the relationship. I happen to be Jewish, so I said the Jewish memorial prayer, Kaddish. I lit memorial candles. I tore my clothes (wore a torn, black ribbon) and I generally behaved like someone in mourning. In many ways, this helped me to detach and accept the fact that the dream really was dead. <P>Then, in one of God's little mysteries, somehow the fog cleared for my H and we decided to reconcile. This hasn't been easy, because before we decided this, I did not know that he had had eight previous affairs, so to be honest, that has sent me reeling just a bit. But once again, I felt the loss of the dream, and that is so hard to recover from. My advice to you, like I wrote to Bioman, is to feel it. Just let yourself feel the grief and sorrow and mourn. Mourn like as if it were a death in the family, because in a way it is! Cry--feel sad--roll around in it--wallow in it. Then, after you have let yoursefl feel it rather than avoiding it, you'll start to feel like you have gone THROUGH it rather than around it. <P>You also asked, "How do you survive emotionally and stay focused on the future? How do you detach from lost love, and what has been so familiar for so long? Is it an automatic process? Where do you find your hope? How do you maintain your dignity and maturity? How do you know that what you are doing is the right thing, and you are doing it the right way?" Wow! Big questions. I survive emotionally by holding my kids close, by taking care of myself, and by learning how to RECEIVE the love that others have (I'm not a good receiver--more of a giver). I have learned to turn toward others, not turn inward, and let them minister to me. It is a blessing to me AND a blessing to them! I don't really focus on the future, but rather I focus on here and now. What is happening RIGHT NOW? How do I feel RIGHT NOW? I don't dwell on the past, and when I do go there and feel all depressed and crummy, I let myself feel it and don't stay too long. <P>I detach from lost love by grieving. I also printed out BrambleRose's post "Detaching with Love." I also look to future, knowing that I am capable of building a new love. Between you and I, though Nell, this is the one part that I am not very good at and that I have the biggest problem with. Oh well--we all have something we have to learn, huh? And, no it is not an automatic process. I have had to learn and work and crawl my way through it. You will too.<P>I lift up my eyes unto the hills, from whence coming my help (and hope). Okay--I live in Colorado, so I literally lift up my eyes to the mountains, but you can do it figuratively! I maintain my maturity and dignity by letting myself play occasionally, but mostly by measuring myself against the woman God wants me to be, versus acting the way I want or the way he acts. If I know to do good and do not do it, I am the one who is doing wrong; and I can not base my behavior on what is "popular" or how everyone else is behaving, because that is just the lowest common denominator, and I am want so much more than that--but of course that also means that so much more is demanded of me.<P>Last but not least, you asked about how I know whether what I am doing is right and how I can tell if I'm doing it the right way. HAHA!! You are funny. I do not know whether what I am doing is right or wrong, nor can I tell if I'm doing it the right way. But, I apply some basic moral laws, try to apply the standard of "the woman God wants me to be", and try to just use basic ideas of politeness and courtesy. For example, even if my H yells and screams at me, that is no excuse for me to behave in the same way. But, what kills me is constantly second-guessing myself: "Am I just being an idiot again to trust him?" "Has he really changed or is it just fake?" "Am I setting a good example for my kids of a strong marriage?" "Am I just letting myself be taken advantage of?" You know--stuff like that. And to be honest, sometimes I know to do better and I don't. I get mad and I have just had enough, and I'll behave poorly. So, I've learned how to forgive myself, ask for forgiveness, and get back on track. Hey--nobody's perfect! We all make mistakes--so if I make a mistake, I repent and repair, and get back on track and behave again. I try to learn from it (like where did I go wrong--is something a trigger for me--I should have walked away here, etc.)<P>Hey, I know you feel like you are living a jello now, when you used to be living on solid cement, but you know what? We will all be here, and you WILL learn to build your own cement. It will just take a little time. <P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nell}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Thanks Mike and CJ. The spiritual theme ran through me last night as I tried to go to sleep and not cry. I am a religious woman, so divorce is not my choice for a marital plan. Nonetheless, I am in this miserable, hopeless situation, praying for a swift and fair settlement so I can go on with my life, just as my husband has gone on with his. <P>I got the PI report today and a video. It was all I could do to read about the surveillances much less see the video. I think I'll save the tape for later, or trash it altogether. They always told me what was going on afterwards, but seeing it in print was so unnerving. I knew my husband is a pretty slick liar, and I felt he was spending marital assets on another woman. My rationale was to gather evidence for my support case. He wouldn't help me out a couple of months ago, and I had to get food from charity and my water got turned off. And he's Mr. Orgasm. Finally, I took money out of my retirement IRA. I had to go back and get more money when I totaled my car (does it ever end?), but that wasn't my fault. There's a lot more to my story--alcoholism, mental illness, bisexuality--but I am emotionally exhausted.<P>He had his lawyer write my lawyer a letter with a proposed settlement (he's too cheap to file a counter petition or officially answer mine, I'm sure). My lawyer kept saying how "reasonable" it was. Well yeah, if you're a guy who doesn't have custody. He actually wants to name our 10-year old son beneficiary of his life insurance policy. I don't think so, not while I'm the one who's gonna have to raise him. He wants us each to take possession and responsibility for our cars. OK, but I don't have one; I'm driving one my dad bought. And I own half of the Ford Exploder he's driving (my wrecked car was purchased before marriage). He wants to even up our retirement accounts. How nice of him. Most of what I have accrued I earned before getting married. And he wants to alternate claiming our son on our taxes each year. Is that fair? He's going to pay child support, so he'll get to deduct that and an extra dependent every other year? But, I'm the one doing all the stuff for the kid. Yeah, the money is essential, but I don't think his support payments will completely cover our son's monthly needs. And he only wants to pay 1/2 of the debts prior to our separation. That would be OK if we made about the same amount of money. I make between $500-1,000-1,500 per month as a frelance writer. He makes >$1,000 per week as a hospital supervisor. When we first got married, I had all the money, the furnished apartment, etc., and I helped him out. His credit was terrible from eluding a student loan due to an address change. I paid that off for him. <P>Most of what I personally owned before marriage is gone. My self-esteem is gone from hanging in an abusive alcoholic relationship. Yeah, I was part of it, but i was the one who usually got clobbered, too. And I stayed. Stupid me. Now I have to deal with his phony kindness and my knowledge of his girlfriend, who's home is beautiful and worth literally twice what our is. I'm having a hard time rising above this. I really didn't want to get divorced, but I couldn't handle the verbal hate coming from my husband. He wanted to file, but he didn't. I waited and waited several weeks. He wanted to sell the house my son and I live in to pay for the divorce. Maybe that's done in some states, but it wouldn't be appropriate in our situation; we'd have nowhere to go.<P>OK, enough whining. So he's a jerk. No law against that. He's even allowed to be a bad dad from what I understand. The best thing about being a grown up is being able to do whatever you want and be whoever you want to be. He gets to do/be whatever he wants, and so do I. I find little emotional comfort in that, but it will have to do for now. It's the best I can muster. I guess I have to tough a lot of this out; fake it til you make it. I'm trying.<P>But, I don't wanna be...<BR>Nell

Nell,<BR>I just wanted you to know that you'll be in my prayers. Your soon-to-be-ex sounds like a guy with overwhelming problems--overhwelming for you to live with, not overwhelming to him, unfortunately! I commend you for trying so hard for so long and also for working to get on with your life.<P>I hope you won't let your justifiable rage affect your feelings about having custody of your child. I say this because some of your last post indicated that sometimes you feel you are "stuck" with "the kid" while he's claiming deductions on his income tax and frolicking with the poor woman who's getting used by him now. You are truly blessed to have that child. Caring for children is monumentally difficult, but it is also an enormous privilege.<P>Best of luck and God bless you.

{{{{{Belle}}}}}<P>My screen name is BelleNelle, incidentally! Never met a Belle I didn't like. <P>Belle, the most wonderful, magical, happiest day of my life was the day I gave birth to my son. The next day it hit me--I actually knew what it meant to love someone so deeply that I would be willing to die for them if I had to. It was the most profound epiphany if ever I had one. To this day, I can say he is the light of my life, a joy I treasured sharing with my husband, when he would share.<P>My husband just pushes to gain so much, yet is covert about his intentions. He insists that 50-50 is fair, and in most cases it would be. I have given up so much to him, just to avoid an arguement or a confrontation, through the years. It got to be more and more and more until...I had no identity of my own left to claim. Yes, I gave my power away, and yes, he gladly took it. None of us should make up for that, but it has to stop now, or I won't be able to survive or have the chance to get back up on my own two feet again. That's when he threatens to take our son away from me. He knows that's my weak spot, and he uses it to intimidate me at will. I do 95% of the work on our son--everything including educational programming (gifted), sports, extracurricular, religious education, doctor, dentist, and on and on. My husband has had little to do with the details of our son's life because he works midnights. I was expected to provide updated reports on our son's activities, problems, and accomplishments. And I did that, and I suspect I will probably have to continue doing so on some level. But why should I have to share my son's tax exemption every other year? I have not heard of anyone doing that, but I could be mistaken. What I read in the Florida statutes and guidelines for family law is that the parent providing the monthly support can deduct that amount from their taxes, and the custodial parent can have the tax exemption since the child lives there. I guarantee the child support deduction will be several thousand dollars more than the tax exemption. Maybe if he wants to share the exemption he can share the child support deductions too? I guess I'll find out soon.<P>Ka-ching,<BR>Nell

What a beautiful post, Nell! I'm happy to hear you're one of the Beautiful (belle) people!<P>Re: child support and tax exemptions. My H. and I went through this with his son from his first marriage. He claimed the little guy on his taxes, and so did she. The IRS naturally didn't like that. It SHOULD have been settled during the divorce (not that I was around then), but wasn't. Anyway, one audit and two appeals later, the IRS said BOTH of them could claim the exemption!<P>I hate to be judgmental, but your practically-an-ex. sounds like a creep. Of course, divorce brings out the worst in a lot of people, but this guy was manipulative long before the big split, right? Is your attorney experienced and aggressive?

Nell,<P>As this goes along, you might want to check out some IRS pamphlets on the issue of who can deduct what. There is one set of rules for alimony, and another set of rules for child support.<P>As I understand it, the supporting spouse gets a credit for alimony paid, and the recieving spouse has to claim the alimony payment as income.<P>Child support is something else. I think the person who contributes the most, 51% or more of the child's support is the one entitled to claim the deduction, unless otherwise agreed by both parents. The IRS has a form for that to get settled during the divorce proceedings, and it would be a good idea to check into that now. And don't forget filing status as head of household. That will cut your tax bill quite a bit too.<P>Since he makes a lot more than you do, it might be to your advantage to allow him to take the child as a dependant in favor of an increased child support payment. Hang on to it as a bargaining chip.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

Wow! Great advice, Bumper!

OK, I just came from the IRS site. Generally, the custodial parent is considered to be the one providing more than 1/2 support. However, the noncustodial parent may claim the child as an exemption if the custodial parent agrees to it and signs some IRS form to the fact. And I don't believe I can file head of household if I have no dependents to claim.<P>As a separated parent, my husband pays a bit less than what he would be mandated to pay for child support. He has refused to help me out further than what he wants to, regardless if utilities are turned off or the cupboards are bare. I provide well over 1/2 of our son's support, and I had to hit up my IRA to do that. I will not get any extra money; and he said he will go to court over that.<P>*sigh* This is just another example of the divorce money pit. He makes more than I do because he controls more than I do. I've been stripped clean of my money, possessions, dignity, self-esteem, and self-respect. Yeah, I gave it all away, but I feel I need to stand up to this bully and not let him take more. I need a break, a fresh start in reestablishing my independence and economic worth. I'm looking at rebuilding and reinventing my life on a very pure level. Yes, I want to be fair, and I want to be pragmatic. <P>I've taken it up the butt (figuratively) and had major parts of our marriage removed from my power that I'm flippin' disabled here. I have a job (teaching) I haven't been able to go to for 1 1/2 years, because I'm so worn down I can't handle the stress. (I'm currently a freelance writer.) I'm living an economic disaster he helped create by manipulating and withholding marital funds from me. I worked 5 jobs last year to help pay my paltry share of bills, and he loomed over me like a buzzard. Now, I need for him to help me back up, because I helped pull his butt up when we were first married and I was the one with the dough. I know I have to haggle now for an equitable settlement, but after this, I am leaving the state (yes, I can) and I don't want to dicker any more than about routine child care.<P>I'm OK with him deducting whatever he contributes to me and our son, and I'm OK with having to claim whatever I'm supposed to claim. My bargaining chips center around his spending marital assets on his affairs, and his routine of giving money to his spendaholic family against my protests. He invested some of our money in a business he pockets some of the earnings from. I never see it. His affairs with men and women, manipulations, lies, and mental cruelty exacerbated a medical condition that profoundly affected my effectiveness in all facets of my life, and I am ready to pull the professionals in to show that.<P>I tried to save our marriage, but his alcoholism and feelings of entitlement were too much. I tried to change something unchangeable. I know I can never recoup all my losses, but I would like to hold on to what little bit I have, and obtain a fair settlement so I can start out new again. My emotional struggle is mammoth, and I am afraid of this man who could drown my aggressive defenses with his overwhelming assaults. He must always win.<P>I work at not being bitter (probably can't tell from this!). I am scared because I have no family here I can turn to. Recently, I began to come out of my shell and contact a couple of old friends. I didn't mean for this post to be so long, and I think I went off into tangents. I'm frustrated dealing with a system that does not recognize the significance of covert abuse, and I'm tired of being vilified and paying the consequences of behaviors I did not commit. (Not talking about any of you. )<P>Have tome will follow,<BR>Nell