<I> n., v.</I> a social appointment, engagement or occasion arranged with a person of the opposite gender.<P>The definition one tends to <B> remember </B> is the one used when one was in the hunt for a potential mate, starting usually in high school, and continuing through young adulthood. However, the definition does not insinuate the purpose for the occasion with the opposite sex.<P>However, at midlife, the term dating is not really appropriate, or should not have the same connotation.<BR>To be asked out to go to a movie, have a coffee and donut, or to discuss Satre's existentialism, by a member of the opposite sex, can occur in a platonic setting.<P>What we have to remember is a platonic date is not the same as a hunting for a mate date. The hunting for a mate date should not take place until the emotional healing has occurred, whether legal or not, but most times, legal is first. However, there are also creative ways to go on a platonic date, meaning, in groups, with girlfriends, with guys, so that there is not the temptation or insinuation that a relationship is the intention.<P>I have gone out on some group dates, and it was fun. I have gone on some platonic dates, it was fun. I sit here alone, at home, most weekends, except one or two weekends a season, reading my psychology books, and thinking here on the MB and in my own way, preparing for the legal end of the marriage, and then finishing up on my emotional healing, which has been a roller coaster, but the highs and lows are much smaller.<P>The only sadness i have is the incredible confusion that the kids have because their mom is whacko! If she were to come down with alzehiemers, or however you spell it, at least i could be a total stranger, and she wouldn't start shaking or yelling, or blaming me or disagree with me when i open my mouth.<P>So that is me. Others have chosen to go quicker, although we read here that they still have some reservations about remarriage. If dating is with the intention of remarriage, then it is dependency driven, not good. if dating is with the intention of having fun, and exploring the world, then it is good and productive.<P>this statement is only my opinion, but as an intuitive perceiver, the world is not black and white, but multidimensional, including the fourth dimension of time.<P>let the debate begin!

Since I seemed to have started this particular debate, I'll respond. I TOTALLY agree with your definition - group settings and platonic dates. I have not intentions of "looking for a mate." Been there, done that. I am a mother now and that precedes EVERYTHING else in my life, but I do think I want to have some "grown-up" fun too (aka without kids) - not at the expense of my kids though, unlike the WS.

wow you actually answered my question somewhat. Thankx<P>LWM,<P>Maybe you can answer this question. <P>Why would a woman take there daughter on a date with them?<P>here is waht her date consisted of going to a ball game, in the defination stated above I will presume maybe she was thinking that platonic thing) bu then after the game between 10 11 pm go back to his place and watch a movie, no other kids around. I really would like some input on what a person could be really thinking to do that???????

Indie:<P>Like I said before, I'll never say I'll never do anything again! But, I hope that I wouldn't take my kids on a date with me at all.<P>My kids are so confused right now, that they REALLY need me to be sane. I've told them that while I didn't choose for this to happen, we must move on. And that mommy is actually still married - they do think mommy needs a boyfriend - where they got that idea I don't know. Though I've actually, as you know, entertained the thoughts of seeing other people, I doubt I would ever include them in that!<P>I have no problem with them seeing be be friendly to people, male or female, in social settings, but going on a date, I just don't know about that.<P>But I am also a BS, so I am on the "other side" that you W is. Sorry, I know this isn't much help. Wouldn't it be nice to have a "correct" answer for all these things?

"Why would a woman take there daughter on a date with them?"<P>Pretty simple, really. She feels like the marriage is over (whether a divorce has been obtained or not) and that it is ok for her to be "moving on". Maybe she's too lazy or cheap to get a babysitter...Probably the same reason why people do drugs in front of their kids, get drunk and beligerent, are abusive, smoke cigarettes in the same room, you name it. Their kids aren't the first priority, or they are so wrapped up in whatever they need at the moment that their children's needs don't even occur to them. Happens all of the time.

The Stu,<P>hmm.... interesting way to look at it, i would just say plain and simple selfishness. <P>I look at the marriage and it is pretty much over for me also, but I will not do the paperwork, noone can change my mind on that. I is just sad that she had to do that with my daughter, some things in this world as so forgiveable and some are so hard to forgive, and this is one of those hard ones to forgive, I will maybe someday (deathbed) forgive her but no time soon. Oh well maybe some other women or men can give me some more insight on it. thanks Stu...<P>high - five back at ya

Since I have friends who are attempting to push me back into the "Dating Game," I'll jump in here:<P>I think that our situations should give us a better perspective on both casual dating and "mate-searching," but that doesn't always seem to be the case, does it?<P>I'm guilty of rushing out on a date with the first pretty thing that gave me the time of day after my separation. That was the wrong thing to do, becuase I approached it with the wrong set of priorities. I was craving attention of any kind, and indiscriminate about where I got the attention from. <P>I realized that I needed time to become comfortable with myself again before I went out and inflicted myself on the singles scene! "Know thyself" is good advice, after all. What I've figured out is that I don't <I>need</I> someone else to make my life complete. I don't <I>need</I> to be in a relationship to be at ease with myself. I don't <I>need</I> to date anyone for any reason. <P>I'm reminded of my old college roommate, who would get back together with a girlfriend he <B>couldn't stand</B>, or continue a relationship with someone he wasn't really interested in, just to avoid the pain of being alone.<P>On the other hand, I have a friend now who won't get in any relationship with <B>anyone</B>, no matter how promising it looks. He has serious issues regarding trust of the oppposite sex, so he drifts from woman to woman, always ending the association whenever the issue of committment or monogamy comes up.<P>When I do get back out into the dating world, I don't want it to be out of loneliness, or neediness, or social pressure ("so, are you seeing anyone...why not?"). If and when I get involved with someone, I don't want it to be clouded with issues from my failed marriage, if that is at all possible! In other words, I need to know myself, be comfortable with myself, and be healthy (in mind, body, and spirit) before I start dating again.<P>As to taking one's child on a date...sure, that's fine. AFTER you've been divorced for a long time, AND your child has come to grips with that fact, AND you've been dating the person in question for at least 6 months, AND it appears to be getting serious, AND marriage is a distinct possibility, AND you think your kid(s) and the new person will really hit it off...otherwise no way!

cjack,<P>it was her 3 or 4th date that she took or daughter on. Too me tha tis totally sick too do

Wow, musta been real serious! <P>One of the few positive things I can point out about my Ex is the way she handled her D around me when we were dating. I didn't even meet D until it was clear that it was more than just "dating." <P>I feel that as parents, we need to be very, very careful about just how much we let our kids in on our social lives. I learned this lesson from a different perspective when my mother started dating a man just one year after my father passed away. I remember the resentment and distrust I felt, and I remember the strange and unpleasant feeling of watching my mom kissing someone other than my dad for the first time. I remember sitting down with my older brother and discussing the things we didn't like about this guy...and this happened when I was 22! I can't imagine what it would be like for a child, and I wouldn't want to put those feelings on anyone who wasn't ready to deal with them.<P>That's the problem, right there. Our kids aren't really ready to process the emotions that are involved in seeing our parents dating again. The dynamic of having a new person in the family picture can be too much to handle, especially after (or even during) a divorce, which is hard enough in and of itself.<P>Next June, I'm standing up in a wedding for a friend of mine. Her kids are okay with the marriage. His kids aren't. It kinda makes me wonder how things will turn out for them...

Cjack,<P>I agree, and I do not think she is seeing him anymore, it was jsut the simle fact that she took our daughter. I tried to talk to her about it and even suggested if she felt uncomfortable with telling me that she was dating and asking me if i can watch our daughter, then for us to find a baby-sitter, so she wouldn't have to ask me to watch our daughter, she got mad at it and thought I was weird and said it will not happen again. I also tried to tell her that we should inform each other if we are dating, it would be the only reasonable thing to do instead of hearing from our daughter that we are seeing soemone else. She thoght I was nuts for saying that. Oh well, guess we all have to learn from our mistakes

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indie:<BR><B>Cjack,<P>I agree, and I do not think she is seeing him anymore, it was just the simple fact that she took our daughter. I tried to talk to her about it and even suggested if she felt uncomfortable with telling me that she was dating and asking me if i can watch our daughter, then for us to find a baby-sitter, so she wouldn't have to ask me to watch our daughter, she got mad at it and thought I was weird and said it will not happen again. I also tried to tell her that we should inform each other if we are dating, it would be the only reasonable thing to do instead of hearing from our daughter that we are seeing soemone else. She thoght I was nuts for saying that. Oh well, guess we all have to learn from our mistakes</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>oopppppsssssss getting late pressed the wrong button<P><p>[This message has been edited by Indie (edited May 26, 2001).]

"we should inform each other if we are dating, it would be the only reasonable thing to do instead of hearing from our daughter that we are seeing soemone else."<P>This may sound crazy, but I'll have to disagree with you on this point.<P>I have made a concious effort to avoid asking about my Ex's dating. The reason is simple: it is none of my business. Now, if you're still married, then the situation is quite different! There shouldn't be any dating at all, and you have every right to inquire about whom your W is dating and why. Once the divorce is final, you have essentially no business asking whom your Ex is dating, unless it begins to involve the children. <P>Here's where we come back to the sticking point! If my Ex gets involved in a serious relationship, and she looks to this man to have some parental responsibilities for our D, then you can damn well be sure I'll make it my business! By the same token, if I feel comfortable enough with the person I am seeing that I want to introduce her to D as my "girlfriend," then my Ex should at the very least have some information about what is going on. I wouldn't want to introduce a new person into D's family scenario without at least grudging approval from her mother.<P>However, if I'm just "going out" with somebody, then neither D nor Ex should have to be too involved. If Ex sticks her nose in, I'd simply say "its none of your business," and leave it at that. I would hope she would do the same.<P>In your situation (still married in the eyes of the state and God), dating is totally out of the question for either party!

I agree cjack dating a no no. What I was trying to get at is what your saying, I rather hear it from her not from our daughter like I did this time and I warned her of that before this ever happened. But in typical fasion the STBX never listens right? I am pretty much indifferent to what she does except when it comes to our daughter and she crossed the line on that and i let her know but did it do any good I will see. Thanks and sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B><I> n., v.</I> a social appointment, engagement or occasion arranged with a person of the opposite gender.<P>The definition one tends to remember </B> is the one used when one was in the hunt for a potential mate, starting usually in high school, and continuing through young adulthood. However, the definition does not insinuate the purpose for the occasion with the opposite sex.<P>However, at midlife, the term dating is not really appropriate, or should not have the same connotation.<BR>To be asked out to go to a movie, have a coffee and donut, or to discuss Satre's existentialism, by a member of the opposite sex, can occur in a platonic setting.<P>What we have to remember is a platonic date is not the same as a hunting for a mate date. The hunting for a mate date should not take place until the emotional healing has occurred, whether legal or not, but most times, legal is first. However, there are also creative ways to go on a platonic date, meaning, in groups, with girlfriends, with guys, so that there is not the temptation or insinuation that a relationship is the intention.<P>I have gone out on some group dates, and it was fun. I have gone on some platonic dates, it was fun. I sit here alone, at home, most weekends, except one or two weekends a season, reading my psychology books, and thinking here on the MB and in my own way, preparing for the legal end of the marriage, and then finishing up on my emotional healing, which has been a roller coaster, but the highs and lows are much smaller.<P>The only sadness i have is the incredible confusion that the kids have because their mom is whacko! If she were to come down with alzehiemers, or however you spell it, at least i could be a total stranger, and she wouldn't start shaking or yelling, or blaming me or disagree with me when i open my mouth.<P>So that is me. Others have chosen to go quicker, although we read here that they still have some reservations about remarriage. If dating is with the intention of remarriage, then it is dependency driven, not good. if dating is with the intention of having fun, and exploring the world, then it is good and productive.<P>this statement is only my opinion, but as an intuitive perceiver, the world is not black and white, but multidimensional, including the fourth dimension of time.<P>let the debate begin!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bravo, I could not agree more. I am finding alot of interesting things out doing exactly what you mention. I also am preparing for future divorce. Through others I am learning what it is I hope to have latter down the road. I also am reading books to understand my self and how I got to this point. TTHANKS<P>Best Regards<P>c<BR>

Cjack,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When I do get back out into the dating world, I don't want it to be out of loneliness, or neediness, or social pressure ("so, are you seeing anyone...why not?"). If and when I get involved with someone, I don't want it to be clouded with issues from my failed marriage, if that is at all possible! In other words, I need to know myself, be comfortable with myself, and be healthy (in mind, body, and spirit) before I start dating again.<P>As to taking one's child on a date...sure, that's fine. AFTER you've been divorced for a long time, AND your child has come to grips with that fact, AND you've been dating the person in question for at least 6 months, AND it appears to be getting serious, AND marriage is a distinct possibility, AND you think your kid(s) and the new person will really hit it off...otherwise no way!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think this is exactly how I feel about the whole dating situation.<P>My kids needs are really going to determine a great deal in any new relationships that I might develop, and I would be irresponsible to place them in the position of becoming attached to someone, when I haven't done my own homework on myself first, ensuring that a new relationship can really succeed.<P>WhenIfindthetime,<P>In my situation, platonic dating just isn't a good idea. I think I'm far too vulnerable, and no matter how "platonic" I told myself things were going to be, I'd end up being drawn into something more than I bargained for. Well, it would depend on the situation really, I guess you could call the lunch I had with a man last week a "platonic" date, but he was an old old friend, also 6 years younger than me, that wanted to catch me up on the events in his life....such as his brand new bride! I was also invited to lunch at a nearby abbey by a monk....heehee....and again, these were very "safe" things for me. <P>For me, I have to take very hard looks at myself and my motivations. "Knowing myself" is the wisest advice I have heard on here yet. <P>I do go to social occaisions and parties, and that's a great way to have fun without dating. I think it's important that we continue to develop friendships and a social life for ourselves, but there are certain things that we should just recognize about ourselves and avoid.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Again, the definition of dating needs to be agreed upon.<P>Is it only after 6pm?<BR>Is it only in public place?<P>Can you take yourself, an offspring, and OP in a boat to go fishing on a pond from 1pm to 4 pm, and call it a date?<P>Can you take your children to a Sunday afternoon social gathering of friends, some single some married, and let them play with other children, while you talk with adults for the purposes of finding a mate, and call it a group date?<P>

I think it is acceptable for you to take your children with you to a group event where other children will be so you can socialize with other adults.<P>As to the boat, I think it is how you interact with the OP on the boat that is the key. <P>When my children were having some difficulties recently, I took them to a child psychologist and she said that it is ok for the children to meet someone I am dating. The key is to make the outing, child focused!! Make sure you are interacting with the child the entire time. Play games with them, go to a kids movie, show them attention, don't ignore them during the outing.<P>And, of course, do not have the children exposed to a string of men while you are dating. You shouldn't introduce them to anyone that you are not serious about.<BR>

Well...having taken my kids out to do things with male friends since the seperation..My reasons may be different than your spouses...their dad is gone out of town much of the time..and they have no real male role models in their life. <P>Did you do "fun" things with your family? Spend play time with them?? Or did you work all the time and was to tired on weekends and doing all the things on the "to do list" around the house..and to busy doing things that you forgot what having fun is?? there has to be a balance..and going to a ballgame and watching a movie is fun..thats one of those<BR>"family commitment" Emotional needs..and for alot of women...thats very important..I know to me it's on the top of my list...