This weekend was another poor one.<P>D had dance recital this week. STBX came to the Saturday performance. For those that don't know he is going to Norway in a 1.5 weeks to see OW who is a ballerina. So the whole recital was a trigger for me. I was in tears right before the intermission as they danced to Calling All Angels. Anyway, at intermission STBX asked to see pictures that I had of D in her recital outfits. I can not even speak to him at this point in my life, I get too emotional. So I tossed them over to him. He looks at them and asked if he would be getting copies. I said of course. He then asked....What's Wrong?...I was stunned at this question.....I responded What do you mean what is wrong?.....Does he really think that I am just going to get over this and be his friend. Does he really not get it that he has caused me great sadness and depression? Does he think that my emotions are just a put on?<P>Anyway to cap it all off when the kids get home today I find out that he had a friend (female) in from NewOrleans to spend the weekend with him. Yes, she stayed at the apartment and my D stayed there as well. I had no idea this was happening. I was furious. I called him and asked him not to have females staying at his place. He saw nothing wrong with it, saying they did not hug or kiss or anything in front of the kids and according to him she is just a friend, like all the others! He told me that my thinking was once again all out of whack and I was totally wrong to ask him to not have female friends spend the night. He justified it by saying didn't the kids have a good time? D told me that she thought it was wierd that she was there and did not understand why daddy had to have a girl there.<P>Not only is this yet another betrayal by him of me I feel betrayed because the kids had a great time with another woman and their father together. Does that make sense? <P>The D papers are not even officially filed and he is carrying on like an 18 yr old. I am so upset over this.<P>My self esteem has been hit hard. I feel totally worthless as a wife and friend that my husband had to go out and find so many other women to be happy. <P>Please help me get this into perspective here.<P>Thanks!

<P>Two things come to mind here,<P>One: What an ignorant a**! Your H is setting a HORRIBLE example for your D. Maybe I'm over-reacting, but I think it is totally wrong for him to have another woman spend <B>any time at all</B> around D at this point. Aside from the obvious reason that he is <B>still married to you</B> and that he's basically teaching them that adultery is okay, I'm of the opinion that children should <B>not</B> be exposed to a girlfriend/boyfriend until it is clear that there is something special about that person. I didn't even <I>meet</I> my now-step daughter until I had been dating her mom for a couple of <I>months</I>, and it was clear that it was going to be long term.<P>Two: The fact that your STBX is a brainless, insensitive cheese-d*ck should have <B>no bearing whatsoever</B> on your worth as a wife. In fact, your were (and are) a far, far better woman than he will ever deserve! Anyone who would throw away a happy family life and a loving wife for an anorexic Norwegian teenager has <B>utterly lost touch with reality</B> and, as such, you should not allow his actions to impact your self esteem.<P>Its not your fault that the man has had large parts of his brain rendered inoperative.<P>How's that for perspective?

Thanks CJack. You are always good for a kick in the pants!<P>I gotta tell ya, being cheated on with one person is bad enough but when it becomes multiple women and they just keep coming it is hard to take.<P>As my friend said, he wasn't happy with the reaction he was getting from you as you had been too strong and were not stooping to his level. He finally found the trigger that will set you off and he will keep using it. He finally got his anger. My children deserve so much better than this!!

You know, my STBX acts the same way. She is always offering to do things for me. A parking pass to Harborfest was her latest offering.<P>As I'm still a couple of months away from her filing, I've always politely declined her offers. I suspect it's her way of convincing herself that she's a good person, and this was "just one of those things". But she has absolutely no clue as to why I wouldn't want to be "friends" with her. Why would I want a friend who betrayed me? Her fog is as deep as ever.<P>Anyhow, I feel very bad that your husband is exposing your daughter to his GF(s). My son's mother is doing the same thing, and she KNOWS he doesn't like it.<P>Echoing Cjack... This doesn't have anything to do with you. The problem lies with him. That being said, the one thing I've used with my STBX is to look through her when we have contact. I pick a point about 10 feet behind her and look through her towards it while we converse. It works for me...<P>It will get better. The healing takes awhile, but it eventualy comes...<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Hopeless, I also know how you feel. My H came to our niece's graduation, despite a temporary restraining order, and brought OW with him! I had just had dinner with kids, his sister, and his parents who were also all there. He brought present for niece which she asked me to return to him.<P>He wrote me with a long letter explaining a few points about our joint business to help me out, since he's restrained from business as well, and then wrote how he'll love me forever, but he kicked me and kids out of house (we're back in with TRO) and moved OW in. After getting kicked out by cops he and OW are camping in the woods - they spent all their (his) money on drugs.<P>OW is 28 years younger than me and from all the pornographic stuff I found in the house, along with the drug and paraphenalia, she must be quite frisky. <P>I feel totally inadequate, though everyone tells me the same things, that it's his problem, it's not me, etc. It still hurts terribly.<P>Maybe the only good (?) thing about multiple OW's is that he's cheating on all of them too, so none of them could really be that important to him... I'm sure it still hurts.

I don't know if this is any help, but as a ws I can say for me your husbands actions are thoroughly reprehensible. It is one thing to truly find yourself in the place of loving another while married (usually due to long term emotional withdrawal in the marriage, essentially divorced but still married), is quite different to substitute marriage with promiscuity, and disgusting to subject ones children to that morality. Has your husband gone on record as saying he wants his daughter to grow up and sleep with her casual male friends (married or not)? Maybe someone needs to ask him that, cause that is what he is teaching her. Your feelings seem perfectly justified (normal)to me, and I would fight that particular behaviour (legally as well if possible), tooth and nail. As for his overall demeanor in your post, he is not cluleless, unless he is a complete moron (unlikely) he knows exactly what he is doing, he is messing with your head. We all do it (bs and ws), but at least those who will admit it get points for trying to control themselves, sounds like you H needs his attention gotten via 2x4 to the side of head. As for your self-esteem, if it is dependent on the behavioural choices of a narcissitic H (seems likely) you need a reality check yourself . I follow many of your posts and you seem like a well-balanced worthwhile person, if my opionion is of any value. I am sure your some lucky man (and who knows maybe your H yet) will wake up everyday giving thanks for being loved by you.

Hi Hopeless,<P>Sure sorry to see you or anyone go through what is happening right now. During the marriage and even more so during the divorce, the thing that bothered me the most was the insensitivity and indifference.<P>I think many times the wayward spouse is just so full of himself/herself, that they just don't consider the feelings of others to be a factor. Many times my ex did and said things, and I know she didn't intend to offend. That is because she never gave what she was saying or doing enough thought to form intent to offend. She was just going to do what she wanted to do, and say what she wanted to say, and let the chips fall where they may. She didn't care who got hurt as long as she got her own way. Your STBX sure seems to act a lot like my ex. <P>On the flip side of this, there is something I just saw in your post, and in a couple other posts on this thread. <B>"What do you mean, what is wrong?" </B> The fact that something is bothering you, and is foremost in your mind at the moment doesn't equate to it is the foremost thing on his mind at the moment. There is nothing dumb about his question, it seems to me that for whatever reason, he was just totally unaware of what was on your mind, so he asked. The answer although perfectly obvious to you, was lost on him. Did you by any chance feel even angrier that he asked?<P>That was a mistake we made in our marriage. Many times I would come home, and she would be fuming about something or sulking. I'd ask what is wrong and she would either say "Oh nothing", or she would get angry because I had to ask. She never hesitated to let me know how stupid I was for not knowing what was on her mind. Obviously, I should have known. Obviously my inability to read her mind implied that I was a horrible, terrible, no good, very bad person. I didn't know how to respond to that kind of cruelty, so I just left the house and went out drinking. It wasn't long before I quit asking. When I came home from work and saw she was in one of those moods, I would just change clothes, skip the argument and head out the door to the bar. And eventually she wound up in the arms of another man, acutally as succession of other men. <P>I have never understood women. I still don't understand women. In the seventeen years since the divorce, I've dated close to thirty gals. If there was a common denominator other than me in all those failed relationships, it was that expectation that when she had something on her mind, that I would have exactly the same thing on my mind, act accordingly, and do whatever it was she expected without being told.<P>I have never yet met a woman in a courtship setting, who would accept the responsibility for telling me what she expected. Even trying to discuss it, pointing out that she hadn't told me what she wanted was frustrating. The responses are almost automatic, something like: "Well I certainly gave you enough hints!" or "You're old enough to know better!" or the old standby "Do I have to tell you everything?" <P>If I ever find a woman who can just use the direct approach, and just tell me in a simple straight forward way what she expects of me, I'm going to latch onto her.<P>Now time to get off the soapbox, and hope that what I just wrote doesn't do more damage than good. The communication between genders has always been less than perfect. We are human, and we all do dumb things, apologies and amends have to be made just to survive. <P>On this planet, there is no such thing as a dumb question, dumb answers maybe, but not dumb questions. When we put others down for asking "dumb" questions, all we do is choke off communication.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper <P>

Bumperii,<P>I appreciate your response. I don't even know what to say. Was I angry when he asked.....no just stunned. I can't believe that he had no idea what was the cause of my not speaking to him. Just last weekend he saw me sobbing over the D and all he could do was say, without any feeling, sorry.<P>He is so caught up in his little world of happiness that I feel beaten up by his insensitivity.<P>When he asked the question and I responded he immediatly stood up and fled. He did not really want an answer and he certainly did not want to hear the answer he knew was coming. So he left. Typical for him. He never talked to me about his unhappiness with his job, his life our marriage. When he did seem to withdraw I would ask him what was wrong but he always answered nothing. So what was I to do? <P>I am still reeling from all this and then to find out that there is yet another woman. I was angry then and I did tell him what was on my mind....my concern for the children....he just brushed it aside as me blowing everything out of proportion no respect for my feelings in the least. Just the same old attitude that he will do whatever he wants, he will justify it and it makes him happy so I'm doing it. He thinks that since she was introduced just as a friend that the kids (7&6) will understand. As long as they have a good time it is okay.<P>And maybe it wasn't a dumb question but I feel it was a highly insensitive question and he did not ask it to hear an answer only to alleviate guilt because he had spent the day with OW. Couldn't even get away from her in the morning to come see S play soccer, gee I wonder what they were doing? BLECH.<P><BR>

HopelessinAZ<P>I'm sorry you hurt so bad. I can relate in that my now ex-wife went from man to man even while we were still legally married and it hurt like crazy. It caused my to doubt myself and everyone else around me.<P>God does not make junk and what your husband's actions or words don't determine your value as a human being.<P>Are you currently in any type of support group? A good support group will help a lot. If you are not involved in a divorce recovery support group, it's something you might want to consider. It won't make the pain go away, but it will help you understand what you are dealing with and what you will be dealing with and give you some strategies for coping.<P>Regards, Tom

HiHopelessAZ,<P>I'm sorry you're having to go through this...the WS does lose all perspective...not only do they suffer from fog, they also suffer delusions of grandeur and severe tunnel vision...<P>Just today, my ex, with whom I have had nothing but very cold, distant and only when necessary for the kids contact for the past month or so, sends me an email of jokes for English teachers...why? why? why? He's just weird...I don't get it, I don't understand him and I probably never will again. And to tell you the truth...that just doesn't bother me anymore.<P>Hang in there...this will get better with time (I know - we're all sick of hearing that )<P>Lisa<P>------------------<BR>I am woman...hear me roar...okay - meow...okay - purr? Hey, I'm working on it.

<B>Nick</B>,<BR>I think I will try that looking beyond trick. After this weekend I have absolutley no respect for him as a person anymore. I feel I have crossed the point of no return with him.....I have no love left for him at all. This all saddens me a great deal.<P><B>sadnlonely,</B><BR>Thanks for your words. I try not to feel worthless but it is very hard at times. Especially when I know he is out there being adored and pursued by all these young women and I am at home alone with no one. I have no real desire to just go out and find someone to use to ease my pain. I never was like that. But I do hope to someday in the not so distant future find someone whom I can build a real lasting relationship with. <P><B>LetSTry</B>,<P>We are kindred sisters travelling down this rocky road together. I hope that I can offer you support during this difficult time.

On*My*Own,<P>I'm glad to hear that I am not the only on that can not speak to their WS. I have nothing to say and he has nothing to say to me that I care to hear. I only speak to him regarding the children and "just the facts" at those times.<P>He has always maintained that he hoped we could just become friends and get together and talk about what is going on in our lives. I have no desire for him to know about my life. It is just that MY LIFE and no concern of his!

Hopeless, yes, we can support each other. I feel like a part of my body has been ripped out, but when I see my H now, there is nothing about the man he has become that I want. It's like my H has died and is lost to me forever. He has also used the line about being friends. I would have no interest and would be completely incapable of being friends with him at this point.

HopelessinAZ:<P>Don't blame yourself....you didn't tell him to go out and have an affair. It's him not you. Just because he couldn't face up to his issues and ran. Easier to run than face it. <P>My H built his up, found OW and left. I told him you can run but you cannot hide. WH just took his issues with him, and he will continue to have relationship problems until or if he ever confronts these issues within himself. <P>I feel if he were man enough to face his issues, he would have voiced these to me. Therefore, since I didn't know....they couldn't be addressed or worked out....not MY fault. I told him this, but DUH addiction and fogged in. He chose to run instead to OW. WH admitted he never even once sat down and tried to discuss these issues (like we are suppose to be psychic). WH most likely had emotional needs that were not met, but I couldn't meet them if he didn't express them. Maybe he will figure it out? <P>Just my thoughts. <P>Take care and May God Bless<BR>

I'm sorry for your pain.<P>But one thing that I have learned through this time is that I cannot rely on other people to validate me. I can be a great wife, mother, friend by the actions I take. Not by the actions of others.<P>Just because my husband chose to have an A doesn't mean that I didn't do a good job caring for or loving him. I'm not saying I wasn't responsible for some of the problems. I just chose to work on the problems, while he chose to work on someone else!<P>You are a strong and intellegent women. Don't let the insensitivity of other change the way you feel about your self.

I'm sorry for your pain.<P>But one thing that I have learned through this time is that I cannot rely on other people to validate me. I can be a great wife, mother, friend by the actions I take. Not by the actions of others.<P>Just because my husband chose to have an A doesn't mean that I didn't do a good job caring for or loving him. I'm not saying I wasn't responsible for some of the problems. I just chose to work on the problems, while he chose to work on someone else!<P>You are a strong and intellegent women. Don't let the insensitivity of other change the way you feel about your self.

I'm sorry that your hurting...I wonder...yes he had someone stay the weekend..but did they sleep in the same room?<P>I ask this because..I'm seperated..and a few months ago I had an old friend of mine and his children visiting me and my children...he filed for divorce last august..and as of april it still wasn't final..but..he and his kids stayed the weekend..he slept on the couch..and his kids slept in my kids rooms..it was totally innocent..yet..my stbxh..went through the roof that I had another man staying at our house..and it didn't matter that he slept on the couch..and I slept in my room..yet to me it was no different than having one of my female friends come visit with her kids..<P>I don't know how well your h knows this woman..or how long he's known her...but I have been friends w/ this man for nearly 20 years..and I didn't see anything wrong with it...who knows..maybe I am in the fog here...

This was a young single girl that is only a friend of his. I imagine the "friendship" is quite new. The children had never seen her and I knew nothing about it nor do I know anything about her.<P>She is just another in a string of romantic interest. My husband said that they did not kiss or hug in front of the children which leads me to believe that when the kids were not around that they were doing just that and probably more.<P>I can't help but feel a little sorry for her as he is just using her. He goes to Norway in a week to see yet another woman who deserves her piece of the great and wonderful man.<BR>He is just too good for one woman he has to spread himself around! ARRGH.<P>

Hi Hopeless <P>You can always look at it this way:<P>He's trying to find a woman to make him happy. Yes, you didn't make him happy, but neither are all these other women....<P>Gee you think it might be something wrong with...HIM? <P>You could just decide that this is simply proof that there is NOTHING wrong with you.<P>((((hugs))))<P>--BR<P>PS. I agree with Bumper. Your H is in a totally different world...his question probably made perfect sense to him. If you were in plan A, and trying to reconcile, I'd have to give you a spanking with a wet noodle for a disrespectful judgement.