Hi,<P>I think many of you know where I am coming from. Is there anyone out there who can identify with me? <P>I can't help it because of the hell I have been in and it still continues..<P>I don't like the feelings I am experiencing...it is horrible.<P>Because H had to "be true to himself", he has turned our lives up side down. He can't see it because of his alcohol abuse, he blames "everything on me". His pain is buffered by alcohol and passion.<P>Well, I enter the courtroom married and I leave divorced.<BR>The reality is devastating. <P>My consolation: I am sober, honest, and not an adulterer.<P>Saddest part: my children will no longer have a daily dad but a distant dad. For his own selfish agenda, my children are losing the nurturing of their dad; and the dad he is now is not the dad who will even care about their needs anyway. He is to caught up in his own lifestyle--which I will make sure that my children are sheltered from as much as possible--they can see him alone; and if he drinks when he with them and then drives, an injunction will stop him from taking them in his vehicle.<P>Greatest satisfaction I could have: <BR>Since I know the affair will not die before the divorce,<BR>I do believe that if he becomes her fourth husband (did you read that? her fourth H), it will not last. <P>And for now...I am trying to PRETEND IT DOESN'T MATTER...<BR>It is not easy to go there and stay...<BR>elo<P>

elo:<P>I've read your posts and can totally relate - I feel the same way. I too am struggling with the hate and worry about me with the hate - not so much about hating him as what it is doing to me....<P>Thinking of you...<P>

Hi Living with memories,<P>So you can empathize with me. Yes, I know that this is eating me up inside.<P>I wish I knew a way that I could really let all this roll off my back like water. <P>I have never in my life hated anyone to the intensity that I hate my (still until Friday) husband. And, furthermore, the ow brings out the hate in me. And she is really not worth it--but she is with my husband...she is laughing...look at me..he wants me, not you..Ha, ha<P>Yes, I feel horrible feeling like this...I hate my husband's actions...but his alcohol and affair foggish hangovers prevent him from feeling and caring...he doesn't even know that we feel anything...<P>so sad for my children that this is the model they have as a father...I feel responsible that I brought them into this world with him...<P>Thanks for anwering. Thinkin of you. elo

elo:<P>I know what you mean about the kids - I look at my boys and think, how could I be so stupid to allow HIM to be their father, but he was different then.....<P>Oh, how do you get past the hate and bitterness???? I think I need to see a counselor to get over it, but I've been that route before and it didn't do a whole lot of good...<P>I wish I knew how to get over the hate and bitterness. The thought of the OW and my kids together (haven't been exposed yet), makes me want to puke!!!!!!<P>How can the WS never suffer for this and the OW (who wants to be me) just move in?????? I HATE THEM BOTH so much. How to get over this?<P>My divorce is not final yet, but WS is living with OW, but not taking my boys around her yet. They don't know about her, do your kids???? Makes me so damn sick....<P>Take care of you and the kids!<P>LWM

elo,<P>I too can relate although I don't hate my STBX I just have no respect for him as a person anymore. I can't speak to him nor do I want to.<P>I love my children dearly and am saddened that this is the father they have as a role model. I too feel responsible for bringing them into this world with him. My greatest fear is that they will grow up to be like him.<P>I only hope that he gets so wrapped up in his philandering lifestyle that he just disappears. Maybe that wouldn't be better for the kids but it would be for me. Everytime I see him I am reminded of how worthless I am to him and that what we shared together was a lie.<P>Here is to discovering the peace we all deserve.<P>Take Care.<BR>

Hi LWM,<P>My H started an affair in 1/00; alcohol, accident, adultery, infidelity, forgeries, insurance claims; he left in a flurry of sex, alcohol and money. And nothing has changed yet.<P>My children are boy (16), two girsl (11, 14). They know about ow. They do not like it at all. They are extremely sad and devastated.<P>H filed in June 00 on pressure from her. ON June 13, one week after our 20th anni, he stopped d. Then, ON July 15, she found out from his sister (whom I told) that he stopped it. She called me in the night and told me he wanted to talk to me. I hung up. found out later they were drunk.<BR>ON August 7, he called and told me, we are divorcing. I told him--no, you are divorcing me.<P>On Sept. 7, he stopped the SEpt 8 th hearing!! THinking about reconciling. But still with ow. No serious move to reconcile...I would not file...would be blood on his hands.<P>So, now, he has blood on his hands...he started a third hearing...June 15...What can I do? I have been advised not to fight the legal paper divorce... minimize the emotional divorce... hard to do...have to lie and put on a big act...<P>Dread Friday...into court, I walk married...I then leave a divorce person...what a tragedy...<P>Ow has criminal dwi background...we have public records.,,.<BR>my attorney convinced me to let him subpoena her to hopefully keep our children away from her totally...if my husband is stupid enough to become her FOURTH husband, I will take my children and move far away...<P>Write mroe later...elo

Dear Elo,<P>My situation is similar if not identical. My husband forsaked his family for his "right" to drink, which was his freedom ticket into another affair. Well, he wrote to me in an email, he already feels divorced except for the paperwork BS. Funny though, the state of Florida stills considers us married, no matter who he is boinking.<P>I was reading at the self-help psych site yesterday on dealing with the pain of separation and divorce. I somehow got out of this mode, but the main suggestion was to totally immerse yourself in some activity--exercise, charity work, church, school--whatever you like to do. There's not a lot you can do about the emotional anguish short of counseling and journal writing, and even then the pain is long lasting. Keeping very, very busy at a favored activity does not make the painful thoughts go away, but they at least become tolerable.<P>I know I'm probably preaching to the choir. I wish I could pull the hurt right from my chest, but I can't. I'm going to get back into my exercising and writing routine (I've fallen off the horse), and work on being a better person. There's nothing I can do to change the plight of my marriage, for it takes two vested individuals to make it work. As helpless as I feel about that, I know my situation is temporary, and one day the pain will so faint as to be gone.<P>Nell

Hi Nell, HopelessinAz,<BR>Good to hear from you both. So sorry that we are all in the same boat, on the same page, on the same wave length, and writing our memoirs!!<P>I have seriously considered writing a book. I have many files, folders of info, books I have read, articles; many people I have talked to, cried with, counselors, priests,<BR>attorneys...no one, no one, no one, can change my husband...<BR>if it doesn't come from within him....no one I go to, talk to, cry with, write about, scream at, can bring him home unless he sees me as someone who is safe to come home to.<P>I have no joy in anything. I used to be such a busy person and now I am obsessed with his affair and his ambilavence of wanting a divorce. And now, he is going to do it. <P>I am not near the "immersion" stage; I am still too raw and hurting into the depths of my soul and heart and being.<P>I will write a book. I want others who have this unfortunate experience in their lives to learn from what i ahve done and not done in response to my H's affair and My decision not to be the one to file for d.<P>I am a school teacher. I find no joy in teaching any more.<P>And yet, my H told me once that he bragged on me to the ow and said that I am the one responsible for "molding our children" into fine persons. Imagine that! Yet, he is the negative role model..And he gets the divorce.<P>keep in touch. thinking of you both..elo

elo, I also relate to your story. My H also chose alcohol, drugs, and infidelity over a 19 year relationship, his family, and even his friends. When alcohol and/or drugs are involved, the situation seems really hopeless. My H also uses the line about being "true to himself" and blames everything on me. My OW is similar too, smirks at me and fills H's head with negative thoughts about me. And he has also been ambivalent, seeing me behind OW's back while living with her,then coming back home and sneaking around with her behind my back, then throwing me and kids out of the house and moving her in. I got a restraining order and H and OW are now out.<P>I feel immersed in pain, not capable of immersion in activity, though I am now solely managing our jointly owned business. Also, I am the one filing for divorce mostly to protect the business. He is set on destroying himself and willing to take everyone else down with him. I don't feel the hate you do. I almost wish I did since the grief is almost unbearable.

Hi Letus try,<P>So sorry for all your pain. We are in the same book-but in different chapters--with similar but different plot lines.<P>The ambivalence is a roller coaster. And, now, it is really going to happen. So, the closer I draw to the finality of what I don't want to happen, I feel this overwhelming hate...<P>As I read your story and others, I see how so many of you <BR>bspouses have more interaction between H and op. Because I am so repulsed by the infidelity and adultery, I have been cautious not to interact with ow. She did call me one time in the middle of the night during one of their drunken fights when she had found out he stopped the first divorce hearing...She said he wanted to talk to me. I hung up. It took him 3 weeks to call back and tell me we are divorcing. I said to him--no, you are divorcing me.<P>Ow is married/divorce 3x. I had,at one time, thought and believed my H wouldn't be stupid enough to become her <BR>FOURTH HUSBAND--but was I wrong. He is that STUPID.<BR>And I blame this on alcohol. When affair started, they were in accident in his truck-both drunk--and then she files a bodily injury lawsuit--she got $25,000 and Bonnie and Clyde were off. He left 2x. Came back remorseful after the first time. she didn't leave him alone. She has two dwi convictions in TX. <P>I am so devastated for my children. And, now, I continue to be a single parent as I have been for 15 months now. He just left and handed them over to me, and made no genuine concerted effort to see or care about them. Will show this in court with daily log. <P>He needs to be in a detox program. He has gotten off of 2 dwi's and I fear the worst...there will be another one.<BR>He needs a conviction to get put into a program.<P>The woman got hers in 1990 and 1999...She didn't change in 9 years...and she was working in a bar when he met her...she wasn't supposed to be around alcohol as part of her probation. And her blood alcohol count the night of the accident was .094%!!!!!!!!!!! ON rum and beer and she had taken pain meds.<P>His BAC dropped to .02 and he got off. He was too drunk to sign the Ambulance report.<P>Now, I am sure you can see why I am so hurt and angry. A family destroyed--for what? His own selfish agenda.<P>All the affair books I have read lead us to believe taht affairs ususally die a natural death. This one will evolve right into a marriage after he d. me...that is all she wants...Maybe one day, her annoyances will become greater than what she now provides...that is what the affair books say. In my case, my H likes the freedom to drink and drive, drink, and have no responsibilities like being with your family.<P>For me, it is very hard to accept..I know it is hopeless and I have to not fight the legal paper divorce. <P>My attorney, which I had no choice to retain, and is costing me money I could use for my children (H must be rolling in money too. his truck note is two months behind!)<BR>Well, this attorney convinced me to let him subpoena this woman; I didn't want this woman in court because she will now think that she has a personal invitation to see my H get the d. she wanted him to get. My attorney wants to put her on the stand so he can bring out her criminal background of dwi convictions. This will, hopefully, keep her away from my children. I don't think she has any idea that we have the public criminal records on her DWIs. In 1990, she was in a treatment center, and she left and the revoked her probation, and shw as put in jail for 90 days. And in 1999 she was in jail again for dwi and contempt of court. Lovely person--right! Huh! disgusting. So foreign to me.<P>One affair book stated that ow is usually the very opposite of bs. Sure applies here. I have to swallow a very big, bitter pill to see her there--but I hope that it will pay off in the long run...I am not sure what my H really knows about her.<P>Sorry, I got carried away. You are so kind to reply. AM thinking of you...elo

I'm so sorry for all the pain, hurt and suffering you are going through. I know it too well. <P>WH is in the addiction/FOG and the alcohol. Alcohol doesn't help. Sounds like the alcohol is to drown out the feelings or guilt. Only thing is it's wears off, temporary fix.<P>It's ashamed the children have to suffer also. I feel for them. Counseling could help. If you have been to counseling and it hasn't help, try another counselor. Some I've been to I stop seeing because it appeared they were worse off than me. I've even had one that turned around and started telling me HER problems, funny...role reversal. <P>As for the HATE sometimes I have that feeling to, not much. Usually I don't hate WH, I hate his actions. Sometimes I even feel sorry for him for being so STUPID, sooner or later it's going to hit him. As for OW, she is just crazy and WH is following the path. I figure no one in their right mine would do the things they have, of course I know their minds are NOT right. Therefore, I look at it in the perspective that it is the addiction/FOG and mental illness. It's hard to have anger towards the mentally ill, this relieves me of anger, so it doesn't eat me up. Sooner or later it will turn around and bite them in the A*s. There have been many negative circumstances and bad things happen in their lives already. <BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Psalm 7:14 He who is pregnant with evil and conceives trouble gives birth to disillusionment. <BR>15 He who digs a hole and scoops it out falls into the pit he has made. <BR>16 The trouble he causes recoils on himself; his violence comes down on his own head. <BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<P>Someday your WH will most likely wake up. My ex, son's father was never a father, never around. He didn't see him from age 3 until my son was 18. Now ex expresses and has for years said that he realizes he made BIG mistakes. He admits he has and still grieves over all the years he missed of his son's life, years that can never be replaced. He says he has suffered for years and still is because of NOT being a father or a H. He appears to feel great remorse. So it does come back to haunt them. The funny (or maybe sad) thing is ex has been calling me since WH left. He has some illusion of getting back together (NOT even). He is all alone, never married again, says he still loves me and always has. He said he compares every women with me and they don't measure up. Isn't it ironic they don't know what they had till it's gone. So they do come back, my problem is that it's the WRONG one trying to come back. It seems he has paid and is still paying for his mistake, if that's any consolation. Makes me feel better that I'm not the only one that suffered. <P>elo: You should start writing your book. That's a good idea and it will probably help you a great deal getting it out and on paper, therapeutic. It will also occupy your mind. Just write a little everyday. I started writing a journal. It's odd, when I put it on paper and go back to read this, it takes on a different meaning and helps me see things clearer. If that makes sense. <P>Try to keep busy with other things. It's hard I have this problem myself...too much thinking on the negative, need to focus more on doing positive and productive things. I really have to force myself. Do things for yourself to make yourself feel better, I'm trying. <P>WH's on self-destruct can't let it self-destruct US. <P>For knowledge comes from living and trying something new <BR>But wisdom comes from learning from all that you've been through. (What a learning experience!) <P><BR><B>"Having someone who understands is a great blessing for ourselves. Being someone who understands is a great blessing to others."</B><P>Take care and May God Bless <P> <P>

elo, It was good to hear your story. I have such a hard time keeping everybody's stories straight, but I remember reading some of this before. I understand the reasons for your anger and have plenty of reasons of my own. My H's leaving, for the 2nd time, is just so fresh.<P>OW in my case is a 22 yr. old former employee of our jointly owned business. H is 48 and I'll be 50 in 2 months (preparing myself...). She is married and has a 4 y.o. D who unfortunately spends a lot of time with H and OW. Her H and her shared drug and alcohol lifestyle she now shares with my H. <P>My H drank and used drugs (heroin) for the first 9 yrs we were together. I left him, finally and he went to treatment and remained clean and sober for almost 10 years. 3 yrs ago, I was diagnosed wtih breast cancer and this was extremely hard on him (as well as on me, of course). He turned to OW for emotional support. He does not admit to PA before 12/00, after they suddenly moved in together. H began drinking (that I know of) in 12/99. Problems slowly escalated until 8/00 when he began suddenly being terribly verbally abusive to me. He had stopped having sex with me after diagnosis (though he denies PA at this time it coincided with EA). <P>This was very hard on me emotionally, but treatment and then reconstructive surgery made sex unappealing anyway. But in 8/00, I was feeling great and glad to be alive so I seduced H in the hot tub. He apparently thought I must be having an A (guilty conscience?), read my old journals, and became obsessed with his belief that I loved an old boyfriend (from over 20 yrs ago!) more than I ever loved him. He continued to verbally abuse me, threaten me, and intimidate me until he suddenly left and moved in with OW after Thanksgiving.<P>I had suspected amphetamines since his behavior changed in August but he became enraged at the suggestion, so I never mentioned it. He accused me of telling everyone in town he was using drugs when in reality people often approached me to say they suspected he was using drugs.<P>During the time he was gone, he never visited or spoke with the kids but talked constantly about how he "loved" OW's 4 y.o. D - easier to get away with bad behavior in front of a 4 y.o. than teenagers I guess. <P>He moved home in March for 1.5 months. He even wrote no contact letter, but OW hounded him relentlessly and he never believed he couldn't maintain both relationships, so he began "disappearing" and not answering his cell phone or pager and becoming verbally abusive again. <P>I had taken over the corporation while he was gone the 1st time because he was using corporate acct. to fund his life style - bought old Porsche, household furnishings, paid his rent and utilities, etc. He tried to shame me constantly, saying that he would never do such a horrible thing to me(?!). <P>I finally gave in and put him back on checking accts. and the next day he threw me out saying he doesn't even like me, I disgust him, and later to get the h### out. He moved OW in the next night. The 3rd night, he threw a "kegger" (beer) party for himself and his 20 yr old son's friends, and threw his niece and nephew, for whom we're the legal guardians because their parents are (now recovered) addict-alcoholics, out of the house because they asked him not to move OW in until they were gone, which was only going to be a few more days.<P>We stayed 2 weeks in a rented vacation cabin. I removed him from checking accts, again. I got a restraining order and OW was thrown out of our house before H even returned from court! He can no longer come to our home or business. Although I paid all the household bills while he was gone, and even after he came back, out of my paycheck and still had money to rent a cabin and hire a lawyer, he is penniless. <P>The house was trashed with beer bottles, cans, and empty cartons everywhere, piles of dirty clothes, rotten meat in the sink, all my stuff thrown haphazardly into a pile, and worst of all, a large bag of "crank" (amphetamines) and syringes along with marijuana plants, pipes, etc. The house had even been cleaned once by our regular house cleaner after the big party. <P>Now the kids are gone and my H is gone so I'm alone for the first time. Drugs and/or alcohol make an already difficult situation so much uglier. My H also needs a treatment program, but with OW cosigning his behavior, this is very unlikely. Although he professes a sense of loss about our business, he rarely showed up there in the last 10 months or more. He seems to be looking forward to a settlement that involves a regular check to fund his current lifestyle.<P>I also got longwinded, but it helps to vent. Our situations are just so horrible and unbelievable. It's beyond anything I could have ever imagined I'd ever be involved in and it sounds like you feel the same way.<P>thinking of you to, LST

Let us try, Hurtwife,<BR>Thanks for replying and telling me about your situations.<BR>Similar but different.<P>After filing 2x and stopping d. 2x, he filed a 3x and hearing is Friday, J. 15. Into court I go his wife, out of court I leave unmarried, and devastated. So, very very tragic.<P>There is nothing that I can say or do now. He has hade his choice....he has to live with it....and we have to live without a husband and a father...my children are devastated and sad, so sad. Instead of a "daily loving dad", he will continue to be the distant dad he chose to be.<P>I wish I could really mean it when I say I just don't care any more or what happens...but I am lying. My heart is broken...I love my H and I miss him very much...he obviously is too preoccupied to miss me...Alcohol is the major factor...he is not in detox yet...will he ever be?<BR>If he hits rock bottom...if the annoyances of the ow ever outweigh what she is providing him...I think he is <BR>STUPID ENOUGH TO BECOME HER FOURTH HUSBAND...!!!!!!!!!<BR>hOW SICKENING...AND SHE FEELS SHE HAS WON...THE BATTLE, BUT NOT THE WAR...<P>I'll not stand in the way of this legal paper divorce...<BR>and when (not if) it blows up, HE CAN'T TRACE IT BACK TO ME.<P>It is late. I dread Friday...I just can't reach the point where it just doesn't matter....it does matter because I am a person who see black and white, has a conscience, and has morals. I see infidelity and adultery.. he sees his own selfish agenda and being true to himself...<P>Take care, thinking of you...elo

Hey elo:<P>My WS has also left several times. He's only filed once before, I did it a couple of times before him. I am not ready to be divorced, but I don't think anyone ever really is, right? My boys little hearts are breaking - they don't know about OW. They thought their daddy was coming back because he had so many other times and are jsut now realizing that this isn't so. I hate him so much at times for all that he has done to me and the kids. <P>I'll be thinking of you on Friday. Your heart will be breaking, but maybe this can be closure for YOU to move on and find happiness. Easier said than done I know.<P>Take care!

Living with memories<P>Thanks for your words and thinking of me. I appreciate your reply. No,not easy at all. <BR>Dreadful...elo

elo:<P>Memories path will have no end. I know this is so hard for you, I can feel for your pain. You never know what will happen. It's hope that keeps us going. <P>"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." <P><B>"Having someone who understands is a great blessing for ourselves. Being someone who understands is a great blessing to others." </B><P>"God wrote the script...I just live my life." <P>As for your WH<BR>Psalm 7<BR>14 He who is pregnant with evil and conceives trouble gives birth to disillusionment. <BR>15 He who digs a hole and scoops it out falls into the pit he has made. <BR>16 The trouble he causes recoils on himself; his violence comes down on his own head. <P>I said a prayer for you. May God Bless and give you strength. <BR>

elo, I'm so sorry for your pain. I feel it myself. I don't want a divorce, either, but, in my case, I have to file to protect our business. We're govt. funded and his drug and alcohol abuse could get us shut down, not to mention the problems he's already caused with his inability to function as administrator... <P>I went back to Alanon last night. Do you go? I already feel a little better. I live in a small town where there are only 3 meetings a week. I'd like to go every day if I could. If you haven't gone, I'd recommend trying it. I quit for a long time, in some ways because of MB. It gave me a technique I thought I could use to control the outcome of our situation. I "forgot" that I cannot control or change another person, only myself. MB tells us to focus on ourselves as well, but I wanted to think it would give me some way to change my H too. I also quit because my H had me practically convinced that he had figured out how to drink "normally" and obviously didn't tell me he was using IV drugs! I wanted so badly to believe everything would be the way I want, but I have to leave the outcome in God's hands. That is hard, but at the same time a great relief.