Hi all, I usually post on the EN board but Ace posted an update that his W has filed. He sounds REALLY down.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/004735.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/004735.html</A> <P>This is his thread. I posted to him to come over here, for some support.<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Formerly known as Erebus</I>

SUZIE Q:<P>thank you so much for caring - I really appreciate it - you sound like a wonderful woman with a good heart - something my wife apparently seems to lack<P>thanks again<P>Ace<P><BR>

Ok Ace they will be reading, so let it all out.<P>Please post your story and how you are feeling and I am sure someone will reply to you that has been there before, and sometimes that can such a great help. Remember Weekends are slow, and take care of YOU, ok?<P>------------------<BR><I>Formerly known as Erebus</I>

Hi Ace... I just read your entire post on EN Board. I'm so sorry about your pain. I could totally relate to what you are feeling... I'm a bit behind on you the steps toward divorce... but I've been in Plan A since Nov/Dec, formally since January, when I discovered this site (after reading <I>Surviving an Affair</I>. <P>I see on your profile that you're in the West Suburbs of Chicago. I am in the process of moving here myself... my stbx just got a job here and wants us both to live here - in a duplex - so that we both have access to the kids. It's in Wheaton. Now, I've agreed with <I>HIS/stbx-H's</I> plan and yes, I'm bordering in door mat here - some people believe I've gone way beyond my call and duty as "about to be dumped" wife. Others, on this board even, say that it's worth it to have the chance to demonstrate Plan A. So, I'm okay with it for now.... living by taking one day, one conflict, one challenge on at a time.<P>Also, I am in a multi-ethnic relationship as my H was born in another country (though he's lived here since he was 11). Though, in that country the divorce rate is rather low so I'm not sure what's going on here. I do think some of the cultural issues are at play here... I'm just stymied by it all though.<P>The crime that I'm doing TIME for? I too failed to meet his emotional needs (for nine years he says) and he accuses me of emotionally abusing him (because I had expectations of him and tried to hold him accountable for believing in him... in fact, I was believing in my expectations and holding him accountable for that). <P>I've been taking a long-hard look at this for the past 10 months and have seen so much error in my ways and have made a concerted effort to change patterns in my life that have been around for so long. He still wants to D - he says "too little too late."<P>So, I'm right there with ya... How is your faith? Do you believe in God and have a relationship with Christ? I tell you what... without that in my life these past months, I have no idea where I would have been. In fact, I can honestly say that I wouldn't have wanted to <B>NOT</B> go through this pain for the amount I've learned and experienced so much that I can trust and lean on God, learned heaps about myself (resiliency) and about my H. He's NOT the bad guy... he's a hurting wounded person who just has decided to emotional/physically/spiritually and whatever else, withdraw. He says, I can't meet your needs. It's been incredible. I don't know now if it's a sense of failure on his part or sheer, unadulterated selfishness... Now, he's going to have to move on the D because I'm not for it. <P>Just hearing your pain is agonizing of what is in store for the future... Take it one day at a time and if you need to call for some psychological help, please do so. God has a PLAN for your life and though you hate it like h#ll right now, the pain you go through can be recovered from. Stand in the face of it... You will make it!<P>Take care my friend!<P>Blessings upon you!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Ace... are ya still out there lurking? Thinking of you today! Hang in there buddy!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

yes im still here - today is a very depressing day for me - 4th of july - my "unofficial" anniversary - i met my wife (soon to be x) on the 4th of july 1989 - she fell in love with me that night and the rest is history - and here i am tweleve years later in the process of breaking up our home<P>the devestation i feel today is unspeakable - it is hard to see how one in this situation can ever be happy again<P>this is surreal - this cannot be happenning - even after all ive been threw the last six months i am still in denial!<P>god help us all<P>Ace

Glad to see your stil around Ace, I urge you to post and read here. I have lurked on this part of the board and they are all wonderful people, I am sure you will find some comfort here.<P><BR>{{{{HUG}}}}<P>Happy Fourth!<P>------------------<BR><I>Formerly known as Erebus</I>

Your PAIN is so real and comes across so clearly... again, I'm so so so sorry for your grief. Where are you at in your faith friend? I'm telling you if I didn't feel the love God had for me through out these past 10 months of h#ll I don't know where I'd be.<P>Know that you are cared about... you don't have anything to prove to anyone... you are the man God created and HE has a plan for you. Seek the Truth...<P>As for your wife, she must be feeling pain today also as I'm sure she didn't plan for her life to go this way either. So, WHAT happened then? If you were to tell the story through HER eyes, what would she say/see?<P>One day at a time friend... get out and do something today. How is your social network in terms of breadth - numbers of people you can just do something with AND depth - those you can just hang out with at a deeper level than just surface? You will need those who care about you to lift you up during these days. Find about 4-5 friends you can rotate through... otherwise your pain may burn them out.<P>Do something really! Get out of your home... get out of your reflection on how sad you are... get your mind on something else at least for today... there is a time for everything... <P>DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO HARM YOURSELF spiritually, emotionally, physically, mentally... try to do something that may get your endorphins working... it's a nice day here today. Go for a bike ride, a jog, a swim... do something. There will come a time to just "be" but today is not it... too much of a downer today.<P>Hey, have you tried listening to FM 90.1 or FM 106.7 - they are Christian stations but sometimes I find it so refreshing to bathe myself in music that is uplifting...<P>WRITE AGAIN! If you want, just pour it all out... we are and we've ALL been there... you are not alone. OKAY?!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

thanks for the words of encouragement suzieq and Ovrsc <P>my network of friends is unbelievable - that was part of the problem in my marriage - although she'd never admit it, my wife was always jealous of the breadth, depth and close relationships i share with other people - i am a very outgoing and personable person - i have made lifelong friends that date back to 1st grade<P>that is not the problem - my problem is i just cannot get out of this funk - deep state of disbelief and depression - i just want to be by myself and feel sorry for myself<P>i have basically done something social with friends and family every evening for the last two weeks - not sure it helps - my mind is always on my wife and the pending disaster about to happen to me (ie. divorce) <P>is there anything i can do to save this thing at this late stage - I LOVE her more than anything in this world - how can she hurt me like this? it is truly inexplicable<P>Ace

Ace have you considered going to your doctor, maybe see about an antidepressant. At least to get you over the hump. I don't think medication would cure you but allow you to function thru this really rough time.<P>------------------<BR><I>Formerly known as Erebus</I>

Ace... you seem to be fearing that when this divorce happens your relationship with her is final. Somehow you need to drain off that fear and think through a good plan A - like what have you done to hurt her, offend or bother her. Think that through and devise a plan to modify your behavior. Then, do the emotional needs survey and determine what her top two emotional needs are and then begin working on them, when you can.<P>HOLD YOURSELF together when you are with her or talking to her... no crying, begging, wailing or bemoaning... be a man that she says "I do respect, admire and care for him." You can cry if it comes naturally, just don't use that moment to elicit sympathy... I've done that before, just watching something on TV - like Sex in the City for me the other night with my H - I saw something that made me wish it could be better for us and I just let the tears flow. He didn't see it, didn't need to. On other occasions, he has seen my tears, I didn't try to hide it but I didn't carry on and on and use the moment to capture his attention. I just said, "I'm very sad," and left it at that... he wanted more details but I just couldn't do that at the moment without breaking down. So, we left it.<P>I'm glad you have friends and a network of people surrounding you. <P>How often do you see your wife? Please spend some time on this site looking up the basic concepts and think through a plan that you can use... or post your questions to this board... but try to get the basic education of these principles down as you may find answers to some of your questions in them.<P>Take care! Hope you had an okay day! We were up in Bartlett tonight and the kids saw mega fireworks! It was fun!<P>Do write again...<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Ace,<BR> I am sorry for how your day went, but it is a good example of the kind of internal 'battle' that you have got to get a grip on...by letting go. The tighter you hold on to this, the further it will slip from your grasp. Plan B is what you need. If that woman fell in love with you in one night (she didn't BTW), then you need to let her know what life without you is really like.<P>Time for tough truth 101, Ace. While there is a possibility that your divorce will be prevented, that is your surrealism, there. The divorce is NOT the enemy, it does not carry the finality that you are attaching to it, and it brings a new dynamic to it that can be to your advantage, not your detriment. What's the secret to control of that? PLAN B. Look, you have 'made your bed'...you did things right, and you LB'ed, too...You can't change that at the 11th hour...you can't. She is only playing the LB movies now, anyway...Plan A is over, move on to Plan B. She is putting you in the Plan B position, go ahead and do it.<P>Quit being so ripped apart....for instance you thanked SuzzieQ for having a 'good heart', but you had to stick that barb in there...and that's just not cricket, mate. You know she has a good heart, she is confused, and hurt, too. You want to hold her accountable, except she isn't even at the table....its a little, well it was foolish when I tried to do it. After a omnth of Plan B...guess what? She accepts responsibility for SOME things, and knows she has made a mistake...yes, but you will not get to that point by using your tongue like that. Do you love her? Then detatch from her, and love her without expecting her to love you back. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT TELLING HER THAT, FLOWERS, ALL THE THINGS YOU ARE THINKING OF ARE NOT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Agree with her whenever you can, quit ALL OR talk, and leave her to do whatever she wants, quit judging her. She is a friend now, understand that. Not asking you to call her up, go out with her, any of that, but BE PLEASANT, and a little aloof about her, and the R.

waiting for her & OvrCs:<P>i appreciate the time and thought you put into your replies<P>i fear that there is nothing i can do at this point - i may have another two to three weeks of being with my wife in the same house b4 its all over and the divorce is finalized - right now i am waiting for my lawyer to send me the draft settlement - i then deal with paperwork at the bank (ie. obtaining loan to buy her out of our house) - my wife wants out so bad she is willing to sell me our beautiful townhome at a song - she has already placed a downpayment on a new townhome some ten miles away near where she works (ie. new construction) and i intercepted a voice mail messege for her today from the developer asking her to make an appointment this weekend to come in and pick out her colors for her new place<P>this was devestating to hear since i can remember us doing that for our current home four years ago - i cannot stand one more minute of this pain <P>how do i get this woman back? the horse is too far out of the barn at this point - im afraid nothing can turn the momentum - i have already indicated to her that i will refuse to believe she is capable of doing this up until the day i see her sign the final divorce papers - i also rather foolishly added that the moment she does that she ceases to exist in my world - told her she may as well be dead at that point cause i do not ever want to have anything to do with her - told her she can literally count on never seeing or hearing from me again - obviously that was my stupid pride and ego shouting out in pain - i think my wife tends to believe that i would follow through on that and simply doesn't appear to care - or does she without letting on? she has indicated to me in the past that she would always love me as a friend and would really like to stay friends with me<P>i tended to agree with her when we were going through our problems that we might make beter friends than husband and wife BUT i said that tongue in cheek when i never envisioned in a million years she would ever ask for a divorce . . . that's how much i trusted her love for me<P>since january when she asked for the divorce i changed my stance on that to the hardline position of "you want a divorce, you can forget about ever being friends" - so i think she believes me and does not care<P>anyway, i am quickly running out of time here. . . . how can there possible be any hope when she has already bought a townhouse and is planning her new life without me? what can I do if anything? <P>she is house sitting for her parents the next five days which will give us time by ourselves - im not sure whether this is a good or bad thing? we are on speaking terms although i have not seen her for the last three days since i have made a concoius effort to avoid the house other than the nightime sleeping hours - the last conversation we had was on tuesday and mirrored the thousand similar ones we've had over the last few months mainly consisting of me trying to rationalize what a mistake she is making, how it is in her and mine best interst to stay and work on the marriage, how much i love her amd basically me doing more grovelling with her saying nothing<P>that should bring you up to date on my situation - the clock is ticking rather quickly and i have no options or any leverage at this point<P>please advise - in dying a slow death here - thanks<P>Ace<BR>

Hello Ace... So you're up late too, eh? <P>I can definitely sense your pain through your notes... and I know you are hurting more now that probably you ever have in your life...<P>Friend, you are doing the right thing by staying away from home to give yourself and her some breathing room. I commend you on that. I'd like to encourage you to stay away from doing/saying anything melodramatic... I know that you're crying out in your pain but there are other ways and more effective ways of doing that than using threats or harsh words to manipulate her into doing what you want her to...<P>I can't imagine how that must have felt hearing how she's marching on with her life... you must get a grip and LOSE the fear of the divorce...<P>What you say is that right now you're going through a slow death... would you want your marriage to continue on in the way it has for the past two-three years? I didn't think so. So, let it die... winter has come. Spring will look a whole lot better if you don't force it or expose ANY new growth to harsh conditions (i.e. love busters like angry outbursts, selfish demands, annoying behavior, or disrespectful judgements). <P>What are here emotional needs? You must be kind and try to make little deposits in those when you have that opportunity.<P>WFH says detach with love... be respectful. Love her without expecting her to love you back... Just love her! Give her some psychological air as this is what she needs and will take whether you willingly give it to her or now.<P>Again, TRUST in God... HE has a plan for you, Go to HIM with your pain... truly, ask HIM to cleanse and soothe your heart...<P>Hang in there and keep pouring yourself out here...<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Suzie q: <P>as far as your suggestion to see a doctor, my sister is a nurse and has been there for emotional support throughout this ordeal - she believes that i am showing all the sings of clinical depression and has asked me to call my physican<P>i don't know if i want to get caught up in taking drugs although my sister strongly advises i get a referral for a good pshychiatrist/counselor to talk this thing through<P>the problem with all this is that it is fine and dandy once ive accepted what is about to happen and have to go about rebuilding my life by myself<P>i am not there yet - i am still praying for a miracle and dont have time for anything else other than to think about how i can possible get my wife back right now<P><BR>OvrCs: you mentioned you were in bartlett the other night watching fireworks with your children - you were definitely in my neck of the woods as i live in nearby schaumburg<P><BR>Ace

OvrCs:<P>i have been averaging 3-4 hours of fitful sleep a night for the last six months - i like to say only a completely emotionless person could sleep at a time like this - the stress is killing me <P>you ask "What are here emotional needs? You must be kind and try to make little deposits in those when you have that opportunity."<P>don't you think it is just too late for that? i think her number one emotional need right now is to make a clean (unmessy break) - have this divorce finalize asap and move on with her life alone - she has given me every indication that there is no room in the picture for me <P>i truly believe that if this woman heard that i died in a car accident tommorow she would maybe pause for a minute and continue on not missing a beat - that is how completely detached she has become - i do not believe that it bothers her one bit not to have seen me in three days - it kills me on the other hand however<P>any love deposits i make from this point forward simply make it easy for her to move on and feel better about her decision - why should it be that easy for her? she should know the emotional devestation she has wreaked behind<P>Ace <BR>

Ace,<BR> Your negative postulating will be your undoing...stop that now!<BR> No, LB deposits don't work that way, Ace. Besides, you are still thinking that you can control her, and that is not true, especially now. Things have changed, Ace...you need to change with them. Do you love her, or not? If no, move on, be done with this. If yes, get wise, and get to work. In other words, get off the fence already!<P>This is your harsh reality now, what are you going to do about it?

rainy and overcasr here today - weather perfectly fits my mood - i just feel like going to sleep and never waking up again - i am so mentally, physically and emotionally exhausted right now - i still cannot believe this is happenning to me - have not spoke or seen my STBX in four days so i have gotten a taste of what my life as a single man will be like from this point forward<P>actually went shopping for furniture last few days to refurnish my townhouse after she moves out - <P>the devestation i feel right now cannot be expressed in words - how does one survive this - i have such a newfound respect for divorce survivors - can there be anything more painful than the death of love?<P>it truly is impossible right now for me to see how i can truly ever be happy again - i have not felt that way in well over one year now - in a way im almost welcoming the pending divorce because the misery of the process is too much to bear at this point<P>any words of encouragement are welcome<P>thanks<P>Ace

Ace, Ace, Ace.<P>I have been following along on both the EN board and here, and I have to tell you something. When my H left me, I felt much like you do now. Once I even cried for three days and nights straight--24 hours a day of crying for three days and nights. Man, I was a mess--but that's what this does to ya sometimes. <P>I'll say this to you as nicely as I can. When two people are in a relationship, there should be two individuals in the relationship, not two meshed human beings trying to be one being. At this time, I am not going to make a statement about whether it is "good" or "bad" that your W is divorcing you, because to be honest with you, that is irrelevant--the fact is, she is divorcing you and in a matter of time that IS what is going to happen. So, if we put that discussion to the side, the next thing to consider is, "If this really is going to happen, what do I do?" You have several options: <P>1)Refuse to acknowledge it and refuse to accept it, and keep the focus on her--refuse to move on and grow in YOUR life. Keep trying to keep her in your life, and keep trying to manipulate her any way you can. Ignore yourself and how you are harming yourself, and ignore her and how you are harming her. Generally, be angry, resentful and vindictive so that your wound never heals ever.<P>2)Acknowledge it and accept it, but still keep the focus on her--refuse to move on and grow in YOUR life. Thus, the marriage is over, but rather than making yourself a better man, a better father and a better husband, you keep the focus on her--blame her--and keep remembering all the hurt and pain she caused, all the painful things she did, and keep your mind in the past. The wound may heal a little, but you keep scratching off the scab.<P>3)Acknowledge it and accept it, and put the focus on YOUR LIFE. Make yourself a better person, by rediscovering some of your talents and dreams and interests. Make yourself a better parent by reading, going to classes, or attending groups. Make yourself a better spouse by learning from books, talking to people, thinking and going to retreats. This way, the divorce is a fact of life. It was awful and it was painful, but you learned from it and became a better person because of it. This way, the wound eventually starts to heal--and although it may itch from time to time, you allow it to heal.<P>Ace, I'm telling it to you the way it is. It is conceivable that she may have hardened her heart to the point that you can not get her back. It is possible that you could be the perfect man and husband, and she still would not be be willing to participate in making a better marriage. No matter HOW MUCH you beg, and whine, and cry, and feel awful, YOU CAN NOT CHANGE HER--YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOU. <P>That's worth saying again: YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE YOU!<P>So, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to keep the focus on YOU. Not blame, not pity, but be honest with yourself. "Here are the areas in which I did not do good job. Now I know better--so what could I DO better? In what areas do I need to grow as a person--whether I'm with my W or not?"<P>Now, I'm climbing down off my soapbox and I'm going to tell you how to survive this. First, like you as soon as my H left me I could not eat or sleep. My eating and sleeping habits changed drastically, and I waited for the day that they would "go back to normal". It is now 1 1/2 years later, and they still haven't! What I did is about 9 months ago I just accepted that this was a new part of me. Now, getting 3-4 hours of sleep is not good in an extended situation, but when I was at the 3-4 hour range, I thought, "Well, what the heck, I'm awake. I might as well do something productive." Soooo...first I would write, because sometimes I wasn't able to sleep because I had something inside me that HAD to come out. Next, I would read, because my mind was alert and needed to be "wound down". Next I would pray, because praying is quiet and restful to the mind and soul. Finally, if I was still awake after all of that, I would clean. Eventually I got to a point where I get 6 hours a night, and that's where it has stayed. A new me! <P>It was very much the same for food. I love to eat--it is a pleasure to me--but I never felt hungry, so at 8am, noon, and 6p, I ate a little something whether I was hungry or not. But, I no longer ate a bowl of cereal and a banana for breakfast--usually more like a protein shake. I no longer wanted a Quarter Pounder Value Meal (haha) for lunch--more like tuna and crackers. I no longer wanted a pork chop, a vegetable and a potato for dinner--more like a quick frozen meal or a casserole. So you know what? I went with it!! Again--a new me.<P>Lastly and finally, Ace, you wrote: "...can there be anything more painful than the death of love?...it truly is impossible right now for me to see how i can truly ever be happy again." I know exactly how you feel. And for a long time I sat around waiting to feel happy again--you know, "Wow, I feel so HAPPY." You know what I discovered? That is not how it comes back to you. It comes back to you in little things. I have already shared with people how I found small joys in cream soda and grape juice, so would you like to hear some of my other small joys? I used to love music, but everytime I heard music after our separation, it used to make me cry. But music is very important to me and I missed it, so one night, I sat and listened to our song and "Unchained Melody" about 30 times in a row--I thought I was going to die, I cried so hard. But by the time it got to about the 25th time, I found I could listen and just feel sad. By the 30th time, I could just listen. YAY!! Music was back in my life. Now, I used to be a big classic rock person, and lately I've been listening to a few other things for fun--like classical! I used to like some classical when I was younger, so I tried it again. Another small joy that I rediscovered is sledding. Wow, it is so much fun to go so fast, have the snow whip up into your face, and fall down at the bottom! Anyway, my point is this: stop waiting for "big" happiness to come back into your life and look for small joys every day. Little jokes. Funny friends. Playing with the utensils while you cook. Watching a stupid movie because YOU like it. Leaving your shoes in the middle of the room. Look for small joys, and pretty soon the small joys link up to be joy.<P><BR>CJ<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.