I have been involved in this whole affair mess for over 17 months. I have given up on my marriage. Some oldtimers may remember my struggles to save my marriage. Now after five times, I am through with my WS. I can truly say that I fought for my marriage, that I gave my WS every chance in the world to make things right. So, what is so wrong with moving on with my life? <P>I'm not stupid enough to think that the divorce will cure everything. But you know what, I am really enjoying my life for the first time since d-day which was April 2000. I'm meeting new people and having a good time. I am no longer concerned with what WS and OW are doing. I am worried about me. Am I crazy? <P>I have even tried to "make" myself want my husband again, to make myself want my marriage and you know what, there is nothing there! Really, the only emotion I can even feel for him is pity. <P>I really believe in Marriage Builders. I don't think it could save my marriage, but I will take what I have learned here to other relationships. <P>One of the most profound statements I have recently heard from someone (who has been divorced against his will) was that it takes two to make a marriage, but one to break one up. Never really thought of it that way. So, while I was forced to reach this point by my WS, I am at peace with it now.

TM,<P>You'll need a new "handle." I'm glad you have found some happiness for yourself. I long for the day I cease to pine for my rat's a$$ husband. We all seem to heal at different rates and in different ways.<P>Congrats,<BR>Nell

Trapped Mom,<P>I just wanted you to know that I understand where you are coming from. When do we "give up?" I realize some people say that we should never give up. And I understand that view. But do we spend the rest of our lives waiting for the partner that doesn't want the marriage to possibly change their mind?<P>In my case, my H left a year ago April Fools Day (I thought that was quite ironic). I tried everything I could to restore our marriage and to help my husband through his crisis. He did not respond. He pulled further away until we have very little contact (and none unless I initiate it),<BR>He placed personal ads to meet women and he said he wanted a divorce. He said there was no chance of reconciliation, but he was not in any hurry to go through the cost and trouble of divorce. He now lives like a single man, and would probably not file until or unless he wanted to remarry. I finally decided that I had to take back some control of my life. And that our current marriage is broken. If by some chance we were able to reconcile, I would feel better with New Marriage vows that would maybe mean more to him than the old ones. So I finally did something I never dreamed I would do - I filed. I did not want to, but I did. I am tortured worrying that I did the wrong thing, but the thought of him with the OW while we are still married broke my heart every single day. I became so despondent. I had to do something to break my emotional connection with him. He says he never plans to remarry, and considers himself already single. He says that it is my problem if I cannot live as a single person without having a divorce. That I am just being "legalistic."<P><B>So is there ever a right time?</B> I know some people say divorce is OK if your spouse commits adultry, but the WS must be the one to file. But what if he is the type person that would put it off for years? Not because he is confused but because it is too much trouble and he would rather spend his money on the OW and her children. I live in a state that does not have legal seperation, so that is not an option. And if he showed ANY interest in the relationship, I could continue to have hope. But he gives me no hope. He also knew how bad it would kill me to have to file - I begged him to not leave it to me to do.<P>So in this long wordy reply, I understand. It breaks my heart to give up - but I feel like I don't have a choise. I feel in my case that I will be able to act in such a way that would increase the chances of reconciliation if we had a new beginning. So I do not think there is anything wrong personally with moving on with your life. My minister also advised that if you have been faithful to your vows, that God understands that you did not break your promise to God. That you have to have 2 people to have a marriage.<P> <P><P>------------------<BR>Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

I to have pretty much given up and I don't see anything wrong with it, I have been forced to move on she left me no choice. She has done everything possible to make sure we would never reconcile. I still feel pain, anger and frustration. But I also feel a sence of relief as I get out make new friends and start enjoying more, in many ways this has made me a better person and this site has taught me so much. I feel pity for her also, everything she chose to do really hurt her more than it did me, she just hasn'r realized it yet. My therapist said that when she comes out of the fog it will be devastating for her. I can't be there any longer to help her, it almost sickens me when I think of everything she has done, I wonder how a person could do such things to another person after 23yrs of marriage. I have accepted this is what happened to me and my life is better with out her in it. Keep taking care of yourself.<P>

Trapped,<P>I think you have done exactly the right thing. I don't know who you are talking about when you say that some people say the WS must file, even all the religious people I know would tell you it's ok to leave an adulterous spouse.<P>Seventeen months is a long time. This can't have been easy on you. I'm relatively new here so I'm not familiar with your previous posts, but you sound like you made an honest, heartfelt attempt to save your marriage. Unfortunately, all the love in the world doesn't always keep another person from making stupid and hurtful decisions. If so, we would all have perfect marriages and perfect children.<P>Speaking of children, they deserve to have a mom who has got it "together." It sounds like you are on that road. I don't believe you should ever say anything to turn a child against his father, but I also think that you have to teach a child that it is possible to love, but not live with, another person. It is important that children learn that there are some things that you just don't put up with in a marriage. I'm not against forgiveness, but forgiving someone who is repentent and wants to start over is not the same thing as being a doormat for someone to walk across on his way in and out of your marriage.<P>Go, have a good life with a clear conscience. Teach your children that you and they have a right to demand faithfulness in a relationship. Help them to love their father, even if you don't (if he is willing to stay part of their lives.) Best wishes!!

Thanks guys! In the past I pondered over when the "right" time to give up really was - and I was always told that I would know in my heart. <P>In my case, it took me getting so angry at my H t(the OW called the police and I ended up being arrested for criminal domestic violence - while I'm not advocating violence, if you find yourself in my shoes, do not admit to the cop when you hit your H), that I HATED him. What kind of piece of trash has his own wife arrested? <P>Someone asked what I would do if he was trult repentant and wanted to come home yet again. You know what, I'd like him to be repentant and to get away from the whore, but for my children's sakes not for mine. <P>At this point, I do still hate him for all that he has done. I also will always love him for being my children's father. But the "love" feelings just aren't there. Now, my feelings for the OW are still so intense - I hate her fu#$ing guts, I'd just as soon spit on her as to look at her.....<P>I hope each of you can get to a peaceful place about this. Well, as peaceful as it can get. I mean, come on, we are talking about a divorce here. Any suggestions for a new handle?

Don't hold anything back, tell us how you really feel about the OW <P>I don't think you'll find any flaming about this. I am one of those who divorced against my will and have said many times that it takes two to be married but only one to get divorced. So now it's on to looking out for your best interests. First off, of course, take care of yourself and your children. Second, control that temper, it can only be used against you in the future.<P>We'll be here for you through whatever may come.<P>On the user name issue, we need to have some type of naming contest, as my user name needs to be changed sometime in the future. Maybe I'll keep mine for a while.<P>God Speed<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

((((((TM))))))))<P>I remember you, but don't call me an "old timer" <P>I don't think your going to get flamed. I don't want to repeat what anyone said, but I didn't get to read all the responses before me.<P>You could very well be healing. You have been hurt over and over, you have tried over and over, now your coming to a point in your life, where you can't stay in the same sitation as it is. <P>It's ok to meet people and have fun, and your being very realistic, the divorce won't change your feelings, but again, it will bring on new feelings.<P>Have you read "rebuilding when the relationship ends" by Dr Pittman, I think you might like it. It helped me a lot.<P>Also, I agree it takes 2 people to make or save a marriage, but I've always said it took 2 to break it up, (ex and OW). Don't get me wrong, I took a lot of responsibility for his affair after coming here.....I met the wrong needs. I met my needs for him, not what he wanted, but I didn't know then what I know now.<P>I wish you the best of luck,Dana<P><BR>

{{{TM}}}<P>I think it is YOUR time to move on. I know how much you've tried, followed your posts and felt your pain.<P>All of us figure out differently when it is time to keep going or move on, but I think everyone her on the MB forums have taken the steps of trying to work on things before they ever say it is over.<P>Take a deep breath, the road is either going to get easier or much more difficult. I surely hope for you that it gets easier.<P>Lori

No flaming from me as I am in the same boat right now. Even if my WS came back on bended knee, crawling through miles of mud and with sincere proclamations of never hurting me again I would tell him to beat it.<BR> Now, had someone told me I'd feel this way back in Dec. when all this started I would not have beieved them. But time, indifference and just downright mean-spirited behavior goes a long way towards killing those loving feelings. My WS did that in spades and now in July I am feeling optimistic, happy and looking forward to my future.<BR> I'm happy for you TM, this is great and you deserve this hard won happiness you've found.

Hi You,<P>Why in the world would you be flamed!! You didn't do any of this. You tried to save your marriage. He had FIVE chances and spit in your face each time. How you feel right now is just a natural progression and I think a healthy one. Except don't beat HIM up anymore especially when you're so much "bigger" than he is (?!) - now I wish I had called him "that thing you told me not to call him" when I had the chance on yahoo a while ago.<P>Careful tho, sometimes "stuff" creeps back into your head every now and then and brings out all those old emotions again, but that happens less and less. But it still does happen and I think it'll happen for the rest of my life on and off. I still have bouts of crying but I think it's more out of self pity and my inability to believe how stupid I was not to see certain things for the last 20 years - it's definitely not for wanting him back. He was a lousy husband, lousy father and still is, and his mother even says he's a lousy son.<P>Now you just have to pick yourself back up by your army boot straps (sorry!), darken that tan (for now), and you'll be ok. I know how you can be so angry because I guess I still am too sometimes, but even that becomes less, because you have a life to live and being angry only makes you miserable. You will have a quality life and he won't, he just doesn't know it yet. I hope you will be happy no matter what or who else comes your way.<P>As for a new username, I would never even venture to suggest one, considering how good I am at picking them! Take care.<P>------------------<BR>Kathy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited July 18, 2001).]

Thanks everyone for the support and encouragement. To some of you, I have SO been where you are. Wondering when I'm going to accept this, wondering when I would stop wondering when WS was coming back again. And you know what, when I took control of me and my life, I was able to move on. Granted, there were some VERY extenuating circumstances for me, but hey, that's life. Good luck to each of you. To those who can heal your marriages, I say GO FOR IT! To the rest of you, time and "waking up" was what it took for me. At least I can lay my head down at night and say I did EVERYTHING I could do to save my marriage. Wonder what the WS and OW say?<P>KATHY:<P>Army bootstraps.... Whatever are you talking about? You know, all I wanna do is have some fun!!!!!! And that I am. I know what you mean girl about the ups and downs of divorce. We have a meeting with the attorneys on July 31 - as you know, his royal highness (or weinie head!) will only want what he DESERVES.... And we both know that he just wants to "let the healing process begin." WHATEVER!!!! <BR> <BR>So, are you packing up yet? I owe you an email, don't I? I haven't forgotten you, I've just become a drill sergeant, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!! Anyway, I'll write you and fill you in on all the juicy details. BTW, I worked on the tan today with all the OTHER apartment residents today.....<P>Now you know the wusshead had no visible marks on him - he actually wanted to come visit me in jail that night.<BR>The ONLY thing I regret is not beating the sh*& out of the wimpy OW (who hid in the kitchen) and telling the truth that night. Hell, if I had it to do over again I would fight like a man, not a woman!!!! Pretty sad that I had to spend the night in jail to learn to LIE to cops. Such is life....<P>Dana -<P>Hope you and the man are doing well. I think about you often and wonder how things are going on your end. If I ever get to the point of actually being civil to the trashy OW, I'll let you know. Don't hold your breath, but I really admire you for that, you know. I'm doing well - been off all summer from school - at first I really dreaded all that "down" time. But I've been having a ball and boy, time has flown by. Only a couple of more weeks and back to reality... Email me and let me know how you are doing.<P>bangarra:<P>I responded to your other thread. Again, take care of you and screw the WS and OW. I've just come to the conclusion that they aren't worth our time.<P>TM/Ashley

Okay, now I will do the flamethrowing...at the risk of being censured again.<P>You never detached in the first place. Your 'giving up' is detaching. That is good in any case...you'd never have beena able to navigate your way through the fog without totally detaching from him.<P>The venom with respect to the OW kills any chance of reconciliation. If you cannot see her for what she is, then you will fail in all attempts to reconcile. (Not exactly an unattractive alternative to you now.)<P>There is parity in the universe...karma is very real. We, as BS's can't see that because we see no parity on our representations of the universe. That is too bad for us. A little vision would tell us that we are creating a lot of our own misery with our actions, pit-bull like grip on our misery, and outrage, and clinging to our spouses.<P>I'm not trying to flame anyone out, but whenever someone comes on here, and gives up, or relates a sit that 'smells' like ours....out come our Takers with the vinegar.<P>No, I do not know any of your situations...hell, I only know pieces of my own...but I have noticed what <I>really</I> works, and what only services my Taker...who's damned hungry at this point!<P>IMHO -Mike

Mike: <P>You're wrong in respect to my not detaching. I have had no contact until the past week or so with WS in months. Plan B (if you call it that) has definitely worked in killing any love I might I had for WS. As for my venomous attitude towards OW, GOOD if that kills any chance of reconciliation! That's basically what I am saying here - don't want him back EVER, no matter what! <P>And yes, my taker is definitely out. It's all about ME now instead of HIM! I have been through all the other steps and it's time for the end, in my situation, at least.<P>That's why the title of my post is such, "at the risk of being flamed..." I have been where many of you are, not wanting to give up, still wanting my marriage.... I don't post this to hurt anyone who wishes to wait for their marriage. As long as you can and are willing to, hold on to you marriage. But like you said, you don't know my story. I have gone through all the steps and am on the other side now. I wish you luck.

I guess that is what I was referring to...Just because you don't call...is no indication of detachment at all...Its acting as-if, yes, but is not detaching. There seems to be a lot of confusion about 'appearing to care less', and actually caring less.<P>I appreciate where you are in this process, but what I am saying is that there is no need to understand where any one is, in order to know that you still have feelings that will continue to cause you trouble...that's all. More of an admonition to myself, and anyone that cares to give a listen...be careful about those feelings toward the OP...this ain't about them in the first place...We search through the fog for someone to pin our anger on, when the real test is to just let it go...to no one at all.<P>Thank you for being nice....Its a good sign for both of us. Take care. -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 19, 2001).]