Hi Guys,<P>I read all of your posts, and have learned so much from all of you. I've been on MB for a long time, and have learned so much, but didn't manage to save my marriage. <P>I am not yet divorced, but have, like others here, been dating. I met just the most wonderful man 6 months ago and we have been inseperable. I won't go on and on here about him, but, man is it nice to be with someone who is honest and loyal.<P>What I need some help here with is me though. I guess I finally understand why so many of you suggest a year or two before getting involved. I am so much more damaged than I ever knew. He tells me the nicest things possible and my head just rejects them. It's almost like I'm programmed to deflect the good and look for the bad. I have no reason whatsoever to believe this man is going to leave me, but I can't stop it. I am afraid I'll ruin this with my negativity.<P>Why is the good stuff so hard to believe. My H told me so many bad things about myself for so many years. I know it's impossible to un-do all of this in six months, but how did any of you start believing in yourselves again? A lot of H's stuff was just affair-speak, I'm sure. A lot of it was justification for him leaving. He has never taken any responsibility for having affairs (he now lives with a woman he's worked with for 20 years)it was all my fault. If only I was thinner, smarter, nicer he would never have had affairs. <P>Has anyone had any luck moving on after being fed this stuff for years? Can you tell me how? Time for a shrink?<P>thanks guys...allison

yep, time for the shrink. . . <P>good counseling is priceless. . . <P>if you are believing every word that your H has told you,<BR>and all he told you were negative sentiments,<P>you need to get yourself straight BEFORE getting involved in a relationship. You need to be totally healed, all co-dependence eliminated, all conflict avoidance eliminated,<BR>and replaced with honesty, a good self image map, and a good clear plan on where you want to go with your life, BEFORE you find someone else to muck it all up. .. <P>that's what good counselors are for, also, they may find some hidden problems that need work to tune you up for the next race, err, relationship . ..<P>tom<BR>

allison,<P>To a point I agree with Tom - that being totally healed is the best way to go. But unfortunately, as you have found out, life does not always go the way we would like. While working to heal ourselves should be the ideal goal, many times other wonderful people enter our lives before then. At that point we are faced with a tough decision - put things off with this new person and risk losing them or try to make something work now.<P>I believe that most people choose the latter and unfortunately again, end up hurting the new person in the process. But that does not mean it can't be done. I think the biggest challenge you have to overcome is trust. In order to accept that the nice things this man is doing for you, are for real - you need to trust that he is for real. And he probably is. Since I have been divorced I have met several women who are also victims of cruel men (either through marriage or just regular relationships), so I can understand your fears. But you have to believe (I know it is hard), but believe that good men do in fact exist. Not to sound at all immodest, but I try to be one of these good men.<P>About a month ago I met a great girl who I really liked. I did not go overboard with being nice, I just was who I was. Unfortunately she could not accept it - she thought that there was something behind my actions - something devious. It amazed me when I found this out. I feel sorry for her because it was her loss.<P>This man may in fact be a great guy, but if you don't trust, you'll never find out. Is it possible that you'll get hurt again? Sure. When I find myself in the same situation I just tell myself:<P>"Sure I may get hurt, but I can not imagine ever being as hurt as I was last year. And guess what? If I am, then I know I will get through it just like I did"<P>Tell this guy your fears. It is a big risk, but life is full of risks everyday. We risk everything just getting in a car and going to work.<P>I don't want to lessen the part about healing - it is so important to all of us. But I don't exactly believe that our lives have to stop for 2 years until we are healed. What if while we are waiting to heal we die? We need to live each day of our lives as if were our last and often that means taking chances and trusting other people...<P>just my $.02<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Hi Allison,<P>First, let me say I am so happy about your question. I feel like the board is "maturing". Some of us have been here for years, and after years we progress to new relationships. I hope to see more discussion of this type here and hopefully people will stay and continue talking. (Sue,Medic, Nyneve)<P>As nice as the Pre-Marriage & Early Years board may be, we have all this stuff behind us. I am not 25 years old with stars in my eyes any more. I have been married twice to infidels. I waited, or there was 6 years between marriages in which I "healed". Whatever healing is, I just don't know, after all the infidelity lightening did strike twice.<P>I am not here to debate dating right or wrong with you. Matter of fact I see that it is very common for those forced to divorce to stick those toes in the dating water again. Most of the time too soon, but we know it and we pull our toes out of the water. You know, you just know, when you're doing something that just doesn't feel right or good and you pull back. For me it was a feeling of "I have nothing to give this person right now". <P>In any case, it makes me sad to see that you think you are so damaged. I have been reading your posts since you came on these boards and you seem like a wonderful person. Like me, you got screwed over big time by an [censored].(Hoping it doesn't offend that I call him that)<P>For me, it was a matter of turning off those internal tapes. The replays of the nasty stuff they said, the mental replay of the entire disgusting incident. You can't change the past, just how you deal with it now. None of the stuff he said was truth, be it infidel speak or nasty stuff he said over the years. Just look at who and what he is now, do you really care what he thinks or thought of you? Look at the road he has chosen, do you respect him in any way?<P>Now to move on with your new friend. Follow all the things you have learned here, MB guidelines in conducting yourself in the relationship. Let him know how you are feeling - that is IMPORTANT. I was feeling EXACTLY as you are when I met my new husband. The thing that snapped me into reality and caused me to really, really, really drop the baggage and find joy was HIS reaction to my screwed up, cloudy, hurt, lingering anger, etc. Allison, he was VERY hurt.<P>The way my H put it made me see how terrible I was being to him in my own heart, to not trust in or believe things he said. When I thought about it I realized that when good things happened or were said, inside I dismissed them. I refuse to listen to anything bad due to past hurts and in turn, won't hear the good. How would I like to be treated that way? Is that thought process not the ultimate in cruelty - everything you say is BS? Am I really there or in the marriage if I've built this defense mechanism?<P>Talk to him Allison, when you let him know how you are feeling it may help you find some peace with yourself, what has happned to you, and what you want for yourself. If the relationship is very serious, share this site with him. It's one of the best things I have done for my marriage.<P>One nite I asked my H to put some things up on a very high shelf I can't reach. He looked at me and said, "dear, I don't want to LB. If that's a top emotional need I'll do it now, if not I'm too tired". I laughed my butt off, but inside a huge smile that we are on the same page and he actually gets it.<P>Work through it, see a shrink, talk to him and talk here. Dumping the guy is not going to make it go away. Be it with him, someone else or alone this stuff needs to be worked through. Being involved makes it more than a hypothetical question. Will I ever trust a man again?

Oh you guys!!!<P>I was so happy to see what you have written here when I got home tonight! I was going to ask everyone about their experiences with new relationships after marriage. A way for me to gain insight and guidance.<P>You may have seen what I posted yesterday. If not, it might help to know where I am coming from. <P>Well, today is a different day. The pain is subsiding. <P>After working on some painful issues with my husband regarding the divorce settlement, I spent hours doing things that are fun for me - Walking on the beach, going to my favorite farmers market and book store. There was such freedom and happiness in that. I did a LOT of thinking.<P>As I was walking, I was listening to an old REM cd. One song stood out for me and instantly became my song. These lyrics in particular:<P> Whatever it takes I'm giving<BR> It's just a gift I'm given<BR> Try to live inside<BR> Trying to move inside<BR> And I always thought that it would make me smarter<BR> But it's only made me harder<BR> My heart thrown open wide<BR> In this near wild heaven<BR> Not near enough.<P>It's just been such a short time since I got my heart broken that I was feeling like, "To hell with it, my heart is CLOSED!" Well, that's really not me. It is a response to being hurt but I am a very loving person. <P>Now, however, I feel differently. My inner-strength is coming back full swing. Closing myself off to love is not what I really want. If I do that, I close myself off to my core and to life. I will simply allow my internal voice to guide me on how things turn out in my new relationships men. Conscious dating and relationships come to mind here. Trying to stay aware and present-oriented. <P>After almost 20 years of marriage there is going to be some real learning for me, I'm sure. That's why I want to hear of your experiences. <P>I wonder if anyone can really be healed without being in a relationship. Aren't relationships with others a mirror for us. A chance to see where we are strong and where we are weak? A chance to grow and learn? As for me, I will continue to take excellent care of myself and do the things that heal me - walking, music, therapy, my career, writing, strengthening my friendships. Should love decide to drop in, that's just the risk I will have to take. But I won't be looking for love. I will be engaging in life and soaking up all it has to offer.<P>Yes, today is a different day!!!!<P>Hopefulheart

My freinds,<P>I am sitting here with tears running down my face. Thank you.<P>It's amazing that someone knows exactly, and I mean exactly, what the heck I'm trying to say. Feels like a huge step toward finally letting this stuff go. Just knowing now that I may be hurting this wonderful man with my thoughts and actions has woken me up.<P>I am so glad to hear from the men on these boards. Let me say that a part of this experience that I hate is that I lost my faith in men. I listen to freinds talk about their husbands and in the back of my mind I'm thinking...just wait, don't get comfortable, he will cheat, he'll lie, he'll be gone and you'll know. I want to believe again that there are wonderful men in the world...and the men here at MB prove that to me. What a gift that is.<P>My boyfreind (I hate calling him that, he's so much more) is the best man I've ever known. I, at 43, do have stars in my eyes, but it's been six months and he has been 100% wonderful to me. I can tell he's trying hard to build me back up again, make me know I'm worthy of him. He tells me as many times as I need to hear it how I'm all he'll ever need...that he'll never touch another woman. He doesn't even look at other women when I'm with him. <P>My faith is slowly, purposefully, being restored. I didn't and maybe could never have done this on my own. I will trust him as much as I can ever trust another man. I hope that's enough. Time.<P>Thank you all for your answers to my post. We here at MB are maturing, and I'm glad that we have not responded to our hearts being broken by closing them off. I can't imagine how different my life would be now if I'd been too closed off to fall in love again.<P>allison

Hi allison,<P>I wasn't going to post here, because I'm kinda past the "dating" aspect of divorce -- I MARRIED THE GUY. <P>I do regret getting involved so soon (only because we had to grieve the endings of our marriages while with each other, and that was icky) but truth be told, it was nice to hold onto someone who **truly** understood and wasn't threatened by the fact that the other was sad, angry, remorseful, and/or happy (and yes, all of those emotions came into play). <P>We somehow managed to get through it all, and to look at eachother and realize that yes, we could fall in love again, and yes, we could trust again, and yes, we could say those words: "I do" and mean them.<P>We both came from long-term marriages (mine 20 years, his 13, but he'd dated her for five before) and we know, without a doubt, that we NEVER EVER EVER want to go through the kind of hell we did with our ex's again. (I'm also sure our ex's say the same thing!).<P>Be kind to you, allison, because you've been damaged... but the good news is that you can move forward, and love again.<P>Best wishes!<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Dear Allison,<P>I'm glad all of this has moved you closer to healing. I know this has for me too. I finding renewed hope that was really hanging by a thread. <P>I agree that hearing from men here is very healing and affirming. Our worlds become so small sometimes that it is easy to believe everyone is like someone who has hurt us. My husband was so abusive to me in the last two years of our marriage that one day after he had verbally beaten me down, (again) I just laid in bed, really wishing to just die. A real turning point in my life - Do I end it all or do I fight for my life and make it what I want it to be? I choose life!!! I'm a survivor and so are you!<P>Take good care of yourself and a hug to help things heal even more for you.<P>hopefulheart

Hey Allison- <BR>There is some great advice here. I am a guy, divorced, about your age. My thoughts, in addition to or to reiterate- Be OK with yourself before getting involved with someone else. Be careful of having someone else fill an empty space in your heart. Make sure you know what happened last time, and how to avoid it happening again. I’m concerned about a serious “new guy” in your life before you are legally divorced. Consider the potential for issues and complications, legal and other. Be cautious- go very slow- you’ve got time. Regain your self-esteem. Date more than one person(some say anywhere between 5-20 people) before getting serious. There is nothing wrong with being single! Have fun!<BR>Good luck.<P>

I've been where you are Allison, but I'm about 6 mo - 1 yr ahead of you. Went through 16 years of emotional abuse, and yes, I was brainwashed to believe I couldn't make it on my own, nobody would want someone with 2 teenage girls, I had it better than most of my friends and family with a nice house, but all I did was ***** & complain. The truth is he was insecure, controlling and was not happy with himself. I finally got the courage and left. The negative thoughts take time to heal. I actually started to believe it after I left because I was lonely, but I knew I could never go back to him because it would be worse. There was no love left and nothing in the world could ever make me love that man again, he tried to tear me apart to no end and then had the nerve to turn around and tell me he loved me.<P>I didn't want to date for about a year after my divorce. I just didn't have the desire and I needed to find out who I was, what I wanted and what made me happy. After about a year I dated someone for about 6 months, but started to realize he was controlling but in a different way. The attention was nice, he constantly called me, but then when he started telling me it was not safe for me to go to the grocery store at 10:30 pm at night because weird people were out and tried to tell me how to raise my girls (both straight A students), my instincts flared. Be very careful of going back to the same type person, trust your instincts.<P>I too used to have those negative thoughts, in time it will pass. You have to find the things that make you happy and stay busy. I love spending time with my 2 teenage girls and their friends. I'll take them to the beach, play cards/dominoes and I'll go to IHOP at midnight and eat breakfast. Life is too short and I have missed out on a lot of fun because I was a prisoner in my own home. He still tells the girls I am a bad influence, yet he has never taken them for a weekend since the divorce and I work 2 jobs so their standard of living will not change.<P>I have taken one more step and I am dating someone again. This time I am out to have fun and I don't worry about a relationship, what he is thinking, what I am thinking, etc. I just let loose, laugh and cut up. I have never had so much fun in my life. Remember you, not him, are in charge of your life and you control your thoughts and attitude. Someone gave me this saying shortly after my divorce:<P>"One day at time, this is enough. Do not look back and grieve over the past for it is gone. And do not be troubled about the future for it has not yet come. Live in the present and make it so beautiful that it is worth remembering". <P>Have fun and don't think about a relationship, concentrate on getting to know the person and his qualities. Good luck!!!

Hi AZ Allison!<P>I too think it would help you to see a good counselor. And it sounds like this new guy is patient and can be patient until you work thru your issues.<P>That's what it's going to take...patience on your part to not rush ahead with him until you feel comfortable with yourself.<P>And I think at some point, both you and him may want to enter couples counseling prior to any "permanent" type of situation. While there are issues you want to settle about you and you alone, there may be issues that need to be settled regarding you in relationships, and that requires him to be there. Just a suggestion.<P>I have been on my own for over a year now (not divorced yet) and I am consciously not letting myself get involved with anyone yet (not that I've had tons of offers! HA). But I know I am not ready (I want to be totally divorced first) emotionally or any other way yet. I do feel alot more healthy and healed. <P>But I do not want to hurt anyone else with my residual hurt. And whenever, whoever the next guy is...he's gonna get some no matter what; I just want to minimize how much comes his way!<P>Good luck and keep the faith!<BR>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Dear az allison,<P>I've been doing a lot of thinking about this issue of dating and new relationships. There seems to be no consistent agreement about this issue here. Some feel you must wait a lengthy period before doing so, while others are ok with it as you are doing.<P>Maybe one reason is because we are all at different stages of comfort in our ability to trust after getting so hurt. <P>From my reading and (limited) personal experience, it appears that the relationship or relationships that follow the break up of an important committed relationship often are short-term. Apparently, some people have multiple short-term relationships following the break up, while others only have one or two and then form another committed, long-term relationship. The thinking goes that a person is in process and forming a new identity after a long-term relationship. This, in turn, creates instability in intimate relationships with others. <P>Here's my thought about your situation, for what it's worth. You are already in a relationship. We might as well disregard whether or not that is advisable. You are already there. So, what to do? I wonder if it would be helpful to you to practice staying in the present with this person. No projecting into the future about how things should or will be. No rushing towards long-term committment. Simply enjoy that person and what is happening in the moment. This may provide some stability for you and your new relationship. Maybe make it less scary and give you plenty of time to work through the things that trouble you from your past relationship. Just a thought. <P>What I suggest here to you is also what I hope to do in the future as well. Coming out of a 20 year relationship does tend to make me nervous about forming a new relationship. I'm thinking that slowing things down and just enjoying that person while continuing to do the things I enjoy as an independent person may relax the whole relationship. Fortunately for me, I have confidence in myself and believe I am worthy of love. However, I am so out of touch with forming a new love relationship. <P>Your post has really been helpful for me in terms of sorting some of this out.<P>Hope this helps you a little.<P>hopefulheart<BR>

Hey fellow Zonie! Nice to see you're doing well.<P>I hope everything turns out well for you...you deserve it! <P>One caveat, though: Be wary of the "white night" syndrome. Yes, this guy is wonderful. Yes, he is working hard to restore your faith in men. Yes, he's saying all the right things at the right time. I know exactly what he's doing, because I did it to my X, too.<P>The problem lies in the fact that you may be falling in love with the attention; falling in love with the nice things he says; falling in love with his attitude towards you. But are you falling for <B>him,</B> or the way he treats you? Are you attracted to him because he's a great guy, or because he is different from your STBX?<P>I'm not saying that he could be a bad guy, or untrustworthy, or anything like that. He may be a perfectly good, honest, caring man. But is he the right guy for you?<P>I don't want to rain on your parade, really I don't. But I've learned a really hard lesson about the "white night" factor in relationships. My X had been hurt, and I was the first guy that came along who gave her a sense of self-worth. I built her self-esteem back up from zero. I did everything this guy is probably doing for you. I got burned, and I don't want the same thing to happen to you, or to him for that matter. <P>Take your time. Be cautious, and don't throw yourself heart and soul into this until you are sure of where <B>you</B> are coming from. <BR>

Well, I'm a little ahead of you too. I'm 1 1/2 yrs out of divorce with two post-divorce relationships behind me.<P>Having read all the posts, I can really relate to where you are because I was there myself when I was first divorced.<BR>It's great to feel loved and wanted again.<P>Now, I really relate to Elliot45. Her circumstances and decision to live life differently now mirror my feelings so much. I love when I read a post that sums it up so well.<P>And, Cjack said it very well too (from my perspective). Just be careful of the white knight and also if you are the fairy princess. Both have their darker sides. We all do. What you really need to make sure is that you both are ready to deal with that darker side when it appears. In my case, I wasn't. I feel like I was on the other side of Cjack's story. My white knight wanted to work through things, but this little princess just couldn't deal with all that work so soon after her last fairytale life ended (my marriage). And, I don't feel good about that at all. I didn't intentionally go out there to hurt anyone, but I did nonetheless.<P>Just take it slow and be careful not to share too much in the beginning about how you feel, especially if you are not sure what you are feeling.<P>

Hi Allison,<P>Long time no see. This board definetly is "maturing" in that many of the people who've been here a few years are starting to date.<P>Everyone seems to have different opinions on how long to wait before dating. I think it depends on our individual circumstances. <P>I got involved too soon and now I'm paying for it. Also got involved in the white night story, and I'm trying hard to decide why I do exactly feel in love.<P>The first 7 months were perfect and out of no-where it all changed. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.<P>Go slow, be cautious and as for the ex filling your head, well, it becomes true if you let it. If you refuse to believe it, than it won't. <P>My ex used to say a lot of things, when I'm down, I feel like they are true. When I'm not down, its not as bad.<P>Good luck, Dana<P><BR>

Hi Allison,<P>I don't think I've ever responded to any of your posts, but I have a read a lot of them.<P>I'm so sorry your h left you with so much negativity about yourself. Not one bit is true I'm sure, it's all his insecurities and his inabilities to deal with himself.<P>What I would like to share with you is something that Anthony Robbins says. I love his inspirational and self help books and cd's. He's talking about replaying bad memories or bad thoughts in our heads - as we do after dealing with all this!!<P>He likens these bad memories or bad thoughts to a bad movie and asks would we go to see a bad movie over and over again. Of course we wouldn't. So what we need to do is put the brakes on our bad memories, liken them to a bad movie and never go see them again.......<P>This little bit of mind control really works for me. I used to replay images of him with her in my head, or replay things he had said, until it almost drove me mad. Now I just think about what Tony Robbins says and it does work. I can stop myself thinking these thoughts.<P>I hope you can do this too. It sounds as if you have met a wonderful man, and whatever the future holds, he is good for you NOW. He is helping with your healing process in a healthy way.<P>Enjoy him, enjoy his company and take each day as it comes. I wish you all the very best<P>hugs<P>Jo