WHAT'S WRONG?<P>Boy is that a loaded question!<P>Does your spouse really want to know WHAT'S WRONG or do they ask the question to see if they will get a reaction out of you?<P>I have noticed that since I have started Plan A/B'ing, that this question has come up more than I can count on my fingers and toes.<P>Seriously now, HOW do you handle this question? Is a spouse that is Plan A'ing to save her marriage not allowed to have a bad day. I don't mean a bad day towards anybody or caused by any one person. I mean just a plain old crappy day at work. However, it is hard sometimes not to bring the problems of the workday home or to somehow associate them with your marital problems. Especially when the person that used to be your support system is no longer meeting the emotional need of conversation. I mean, when I get home from work, I no longer get asked how was your day but if I come home and don't look HAPPY (like June Cleaver), I get asked the question WHAT'S WRONG?<P>Here is how I see it. If he has been paying attention at all to any of our problems, he might be able to figure out WHAT'S WRONG. Also, since I am in a full force Plan A with some Plan B included, is it okay to ask him back "DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS WRONG?" I'm sure I already know the answer to the question but I am curious to see what others think.<P>You see for someone with my personality being asked a question like WHAT'S WRONG? means I should be able to tell him everything that is wrong. But NOOO, that is a big LB in our house. He is tired (whaaa!) of hearing about our problems but is not doing too much to try to correct them. So just have to continue with my Plan A/B efforts until he makes a decision.<P>You see, last Thursday I told him I was DONE trying. That seemed to wake him up for a couple of days. We even made love this past weekend for the first time in 4 months. Now it seems that we are in a backslide. Could he be scared again now that he made love to me?<P>Maybe its just me because I had a bad day yesterday and I had no emotional support from him when I got home. Before our problems started, we would tell each other how our days at work were and give each other advice on issues at work that were a problem. That doesn't happen anymore and it sucks.<P>Before our problems started, the question WHAT'S WRONG? was a lot easier to answer.<P>Thanks for letting me vent yet again. I look forward to any and all feedback on this one.<P>HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A GREAT DAY!<P>Michele<BR>

(((Michele)))<P>Man wouldn't you just like to respond by saying "I tell you what the (*&^ is wrong". But you are smarter and stronger than that. And yes, asking him if he really wanted to know, would be LB'ing and would probably lead to a conversation that you really don't want.<P>Hold on tight during the "backslide" and just PLAN A your @$$ off. Find a song, a picture, or something that you can do just before walking in that door that will lift your spirits and put your "Plan A" mask on. Believe me, I know how difficult it is, I swear to all that is good in this world, that sometimes during my "Plan A" blood was dripping out of my mouth from biting my tongue. Was it worth it, ABSOLUTELY.<P>Stay the course. God Speed!!!!!!!<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

I know exactly what you mean by having blood dripping out of your mouth from biting your tongue so hard. That was me last night. I did not LB at all. I simply told him nothing was wrong. That unfortunately makes him angry and he starts his ignoring personality which I hate.<P>He had to leave to go to a meeting last night and when he got back I found myself apologizing for being in a bad mood. What I don't understand is why in Plan A am I not allowed to be frustrated? It really sucks.<P>I do find try to find a "happy place" before I walk in the door but it is so hard sometimes. I think a lot more of my frustration right now is that the end of July is coming up and his car is finally fixed. You see, at the end of June, he told me that he was leaving at the end of July and after his car was fixed and he brought that conversation up again two weeks ago. He has shown no signs of leaving but I am just in a bad/scarry place right now that this could still happen and I am having a hard time dealing with this.<P>Should I ask him if he is still planning on leaving at the end of the month or should I just let things play out. I really hate all this crap that I am going through.<P>Bill -- Thanks for all of your suppport and great advice. Good luck in your mediation today. (((Bill)))<P>Michele<p>[This message has been edited by sballplyr (edited July 25, 2001).]

I know that I'm most likely going to get cyber-lynched here but sometimes this "Plan-A" stuff seems very, I dunno, dishonest in a way. As if you're to put aside all of your negative emotions and lavish affection and attention on a spouse who may very well be lying to you and still seeing OP. I know for me I plan a'd my a&& off and my WS took all the affection and caregiving and still saw the OW whenever he could. He would eat the dinner I would make and then retire to his den to spend hours on the computer talking to his little bimbo. Same with sex, he would pyshically releasse with me and give all the sweet words and gifts to his gf. Talk about being a doormat.<BR> I know that the MB philosophy works for some but I think in a lot of cases the WS may just take advantage of the BS's kind acts and tolerance and still betray them daily. It's a fine line to walk and I think everyone who's plan-aing should keep in mind that it's not a garuntee and not allow themselves to become the WS's doormat. Just MO.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sballplyr:<BR><B>Should I ask him if he is still planning on leaving at the end of the month or should I just let things play out. I really hate all this crap that I am going through.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do you really want the answer to that right now? Will it change your behaviour? I know that not knowing really sucks but I guess that I would suggest that you keep up your "Plan A/B" and let the cards fall where they may. If you seek that answer, it may not be the answer you want, and that could affect your current behaviours.<P>Thanks for the support on mediation, honestly I'm scared to death and nervous as hell. I just wish she would open her eyes long enough to fully appreciate the damage that she's doing right now.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Funny, I think they already know, before they ask. I also beleive they expect us to say "nothing is wrong". They ask, so we can tell them what they want to hear and it will make them feel better.<P>You have the right to be quiet and withdrawn if you want. But perhaps you can do it in closed quarters. I have found my mood (when lousy) brings down the people around me. SO I try to smile even when I am hurting inside.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you.<P>Michelle

Plan A should not cause that if you are going about it right, without any expectations. That's the real challenge, isn't it?<P>Michele...ma belle...<BR>You have become dependent on him to provide those needs, and the provision is not forthcoming...very frurstating. That is where God's grace comes in.<P>I have a very excellent, practical book called 'The Owner's Manual For The Brain', which is a nice overview of all things 'brainy'...but not like you might think. That whole interaction that you spoke of was filled with preconceived notions of negative outcomes....Pygmalion effect ('self-fulfilling prophecy') is the cause of much of our grief. It helps to examine how you arrived at that state, Michele. Once you have it all laid out, you can get control of it, and then you will no longer be affected by it, and he will notice that. The knowledge that he is no longer needed, and cannot control your emotional state will be the deciding factor in this. I'm convinced of that. Remember your successes earlier. They were bona fide successes, but now you are qualifying them based on this latest turn of events...please keep in mind that rewriting the past is the WAS' job! I am going to write up a strategy based on the information in this book, as well as 'The Source Book of Magic' by Michael Hall.<P>I have discovered that, while this forum is excellent for support, and Plan A/B are great, there seems to be no real concrete 'how-tos', and we just get frustrated in our efforts...that need not be the case...the answers are there, inside of us...the ability to pull the relationship 'out of the fire' is a tool that we (some of us, anyway) are desperately seeking...and our perceived lack of success causes us to fail, and give up.<P>It is not enough for me to simply say 'give it to God', and be done with it. Giving it to God does not imply that we do nothing at all, it is merely a way of telling ourselves <B>how</B> to handle it...by not reacting in a negative way.<P>laura_lee has started a thread that I feel will benefit us all, whether we want our marriages or not...Let's all go over there, and get some real answers...not just complain, and comfort. This is typically the male response...as we all know...we want action, and we are good at putting together plans (okay, not by our deluded selves always...that's where your input is invaluable!) I think that by combining our problem-solving skills with your emotional intelligence, we can get a program together for real relationship change...well? -Mike<P>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 25, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 25, 2001).]

Bill -- <P>You are right. I really don't want the answer right now and should just wait to see where the cards fall. I will continue Plan A/B my @$$ off.<P>EWS (Michelle) --<P>I agree that they do already know the answer and sometimes just want to see what our response will be. It is very hard for me to be withdrawn because I have 3 very active children so they keep me going and if nothing else, Plan A has really helped me appreciate them even more. Thanks for your support and I hope you are doing well too.<P>Mike --<P>Again you have made a very valid point. I am Plan A'ing with expectations and I shouldn't be.<P>I never realized that I was "Co-Dependent" on him until you put it in writing for me. I wouldn't say I am completely "Co-dependent" but do seek the emotional strength he used to give me. My husband used to call or page me 6-8 times a day just to let me know that he loves me. Now, I haven't heard those words in I can't remember how long. I have slipped a couple of times and said those words to him and the response seems painful for him right now so I just stopped.<P>I think you are right that I need not qualify my successes but continue with what made my successes happen. I can only hope and pray that my efforts will prove fruitful in the long run and I can pull this relationship out of the fire.<P>I can do this, I know I can. I need to quit being so hard on myself. I am very competitive by nature and it is hard for me to feel like I am losing.<P>Michele<P>

Plan A .... so easily does it become interpreted as "Plan Doormat" or "Plan Manipulation"!!<P>It's neither. Plan A is about becoming the best YOU that you can be. Are you allowed to get frustrated? ABSOLUTELY. Are you allowed to have needs, emotions and feelings? YES SIRREE!!<P>Aaaah but it's what you DO with those emotions and needs that is the kicker.<P>When your H asks "Whats wrong?", he's simply saying to you: "Your bad mood is communicating itself to me, and I feel guilty and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm selfish right now, so stop that bad mood right now, it's bothering me!"<P>Childish eh? Yep. But that is the REALITY of who he is right now. Acceptance of reality is the first step to some sort of emotional stablity for you.<P>So what to do?<P>You need to take care of you. You are responsible for yourself, no one else can be. Your H is no longer there as an emotional support. So, it's time to find new outlets. Once you have learned to use those outlets, keeping a smile on your face when he's around isn't so bad.<P>Excercise might help, or a close friend. Use things like this to get some of the work day frustration off your chest before you get home. <P>Expecting him to care is pointless at this stage. So acknowledge this reality and take care of yourself some other way.<P>I think most people run into problems with Plan A when they don't take care of themselves first. They get stuck becoming resentful and angry about not getting their needs met as those needs may have been met in the past - refusing to see that their spouse just isn't there, rightly or wrongly. It's just reality. <P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

While I agree findamentally, BR...it is not enough to simply find other outlets...you must get to the why these things bother you, not just say, 'he's not meeting my needs, I'll go exercise it away'....not that I feel that you are implying that...we need to discover <B>our</B> internal programs, rid ourselves of preconceived notions about the other's 'responsibility', and create within ourselves the appropriate emotional tools for dealing with the 'reality'.<P>We keep advising each other to 'work on ourselves'...what precisely constitutes that? It reminds me of Little League...'keep you eye on the ball' is not an answer...there are actual skills that are required, for example to get the ball in the glove, hit it, etc. Where are the actual steps? (And I am certainly not talking about the 12 steps of addiction programs, that is delusional bs when compared to actual programs for making lasting self changes). Instead of an admonition to get out, and work on myself, I'd personally prefer something more concrete to do. When the target is obscured, there is little chance of hitting the mark with random shooting. Keeping busy, or not thinking about a thing does no good in the long run...eventually, you are left with yourself, and despair is what occurs at that point. On the other hand, railing about the inadequacies of the other just makes us bitter.<P>I have really begun to think that in order to be successful, we have to quit the platitudes, and symbolic gestures that reek of denial, and start making things happen for ourselves.<P>Michele, a healthy marriage is the very definition of codependence...there is nothing wrong with that....'the two become one flesh.' In an unhealthy one....well, codependence is a sure fire way to drive the other away. Instant independence is a myth...I have seen how bitter that makes people. Then, you are dependent on your bitterness. I know a woman around the corner like that...she always talks in symbolic, enigmatic metaphors that make little sense...nothing tangible in it at all. Like BR said...this is reality. We need real tools and strategies and not pie in the sky symbolism, blame casting, and bitterness.<P>You have glimpsed the results of a solution-oriented approach first hand, and that bears some serious reflection...how do you sustain it? Well, you have to find out what type of love you each provide...it is a stylistic thing...I will write up the stuff I talked about earlier, and post it in the 'Achieving success...' thread after I finish up online now.<P>BR, I am sorry if you think I am referring to you, I was merely trying to extend your thoughts...with my own thoughts. Please don't be offended...I think you are a MB goddess! -Mike<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited July 25, 2001).]

Hi Mike, <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>While I agree findamentally, BR...it is not enough to simply find other outlets...you must get to the why these things bother you, not just say, 'he's not meeting my needs, I'll go exercise it away'....not that I feel that you are implying that...we need to discover our internal programs, rid ourselves of preconceived notions about the other's 'responsibility', and create within ourselves the appropriate emotional tools for dealing with the 'reality'.<BR>We keep advising each other to 'work on ourselves'...what precisely constitutes that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think, with regards to the specific question asked, that you are making this more complicated than it needs to be. Her H doesn't want to hear about her bad day at work. He used to be her main emotional support after a bad day at work, now he isn't. It <B>is</B> that simple ... her H isn't there for her, so she needs to find another way of dealing with her own stress and frustration.<P>I'll agree that we need to let go of expectations and develop emotional tools for coping with reality, and what I suggested was simply that. <P>No one can tell anyone else what "precisely constitutes" working on ourselves. It is different for different people. What works for you, what answers you discover for yourself may not work for other people. So the simple answer can ONLY be "work on yourself!" <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It reminds me of Little League...'keep you eye on the ball' is not an answer...there are actual skills that are required, for example to get the ball in the glove, hit it, etc. Where are the actual steps? (And I am certainly not talking about the 12 steps of addiction programs, that is delusional bs when compared to actual programs for making lasting self changes). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you for making my point. You personally feel that 12-step programs are "delusional BS". Ok...so you haven't found YOUR answers in a 12-step program. They don't work for you. <P>But, Mike, a 12-step program not only saved my life literally, it also gave me back joy, happiness, self-esteem, self-respect, and showed me exactly how to develop the "skills" required to live life. It was MY answer. It works for me like nothing else has. I am the person that I am today because of my blood, sweat and tears poured into a 12-step program. And I <B>like</B> who I am - I made LASTING SELF CHANGES through my 12-step program.<P>And you know what? My 12-step program has a lot to do with why my H is moving home and our divorce has been dismissed.<P>One thing that I learned in my 12-step program was that MY answers don't always work for others. And so I can't tell someone EXACTLY what they have to do in any given situation. It's something that has to be sought out and discovered by each individual.<P>I learned through the last 2 years of this ordeal with my husband that I had to keep the focus on me. I would be very arrogant however, to assume that the answers I discovered, the ways in which I did it, are the answers for everyone else also.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Instead of an admonition to get out, and work on myself, I'd personally prefer something more concrete to do. When the target is obscured, there is little chance of hitting the mark with random shooting. Keeping busy, or not thinking about a thing does no good in the long run...eventually, you are left with yourself, and despair is what occurs at that point. On the other hand, railing about the inadequacies of the other just makes us bitter.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In no way was I suggesting to "keep busy" so as to "not think about something". Frustration and anger often are more easily kept in check when released through physical excercise. It's a concrete thing that can be done to assist in avoiding the LB of releasing those frustrations with a H that doesn't want to hear it.<P>Exploring yourself, focusing on what you need to do to improve yourself is a very VERY personal journey - and one that I wouldn't even begin to tell someone how to do. It's different for everyone, and different people reach different places at different times. What works for someone NOW may not work in the future. <P>Its not important HOW someone puts the focus on themselves...its that they do it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have really begun to think that in order to be successful, we have to quit the platitudes, and symbolic gestures that reek of denial, and start making things happen for ourselves.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mike, I don't know how else to say this. I'm going to be blunt, but I am not trying to be unkind. I'm apologizing in advance if it comes off that way.<P>Don't you ever see your disrespectful judgements in your own responses to other people, not just to me in this thread, but many other threads?<BR> <BR>One of the things that I try to do when responding to others is to simply share what worked for me. In Al-Anon we call it sharing Experience, Strength and Hope. I try (not always succeeding) to offer my own experiences, and what worked for me, and how those answers resulted in a better situation for myself, emotionally or physically. One thing I try to avoid is insulting or denigrating other's responses to a question or problem. Jumping into a thread and saying: "Don't listen to all those other responses...*I* have the only answer for you, *I* have the truth, *I* know far more than everyone else...." isn't very helpful!<P>The person asking a question or asking for advice in any thread is perfectly capable of sorting through the answers, and taking what he or she likes, and leaving the rest. <BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Would it be of any help to say when asked what is wrong.... I am not happy today, it is not something I want to talk about, thanks for noticing, I appreciate that.

<B> now this is a big pile of crap! </B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Michele, a healthy marriage is the very definition of codependence <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>where did you dream this up? find me one respected family counselor that believes this?? there is teamwork in a marriage, there is a relationship, marriage is a system, but not the very definition of co-dependence. . . . or else you have a funny definition of co-dependence. . . . or have some strange books. . . .<P>sWIFTTy<P>Michele, (one l or two?)<P>you tell him the truth, "i had a bad day at work, the network didn't respond and the cisco router blew up, and we used it as a makeshift stove to make coffee. . . while we wait for the new one to be shipped in from Taiwan. . ."<P>so you engage in some sensory talk about the day. . . from there, then you ask him about how he FEELS about his day, and you bring him into a conversation. . . with his feelings. . . and then hopefully, you can get him to feel comfortable expressing them. . . . when he has had enough, and any more is a LB, as the withdrawn spouse determines the LB, you stop and go about your business. . . .<P>its long slow and painful, but you can do it. . .

Hi everyone,<P>Sorry to horn in on this one late, but there are some really good things going on here, as well as a little light being shed on communcation techniques that really are less than effective.<P>When he askes if something is bothering you, or "Whats wrong", the ball is in your court. It is up to you to decide how to handle it. If you really don't want to talk about it, how about simply saying: "Yes, there is something bothering me, but it isn't you and it isn't anything you are doing. I'm just not ready to talk about it."<P>That way, even if you happen to be on of those people who takes some kind of perverse pleasure out of having a bad day, you can continue with your mood without crushing someone else. There is no need for a rhetorical question that does nothing except reflect your disdain for the person the question is directed to. The effect is this: "You come home uncomfortable, and in short order you communicate enough information to make your spouse just as uncomfortable as you are." When my <B>EX wife </B> used to pull that one, I used to head right out the door for the nearest bar.<P>Women need to talk a lot more than men. For the life of me I have never understood why some wives think that they have to change their husbands into the conversationalists that their girlfriends are. You may be right, he may not be all that interested in hearing how your day was. If you want to talk to someone who is interested in all the details, thats why women have girlfriends they can chat with isn't it? Women can and do enjoy chatting endlessly over the things that men consider excrutiating minutiae. Let me be very blunt on this one, what a woman looks at as a "meaningful conversation" is something I see as an "ear beating". Yes, I have defects of character too!.<P>The remark about whether or not one is "allowed" to have a bad day could be easily percieved as childish bs. My initial reaction to that was: "Oh, you poor baby!" Of course you are going to have some days that are a whole lot better than others! And some that are a whole lot worse. The point is to learn how to handle bad days without taking it out on another human being. Maybe learning how to use conversation with others to help you get out of the mood of the bad day, rather than trying to make someone else as miserable as you are. I can willingly listen to help someone get out of the dumps, but I'm not the least bit interested in getting myself down in the dumps with her.<P>OK, just my 2 cents worth. Hope you keep this thread going.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<BR>

<B>BR</B> quote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When your H asks "Whats wrong?", he's simply saying to you: "Your bad mood is communicating itself to me, and I feel guilty and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm selfish right now, so stop that bad mood right now, it's bothering me!"<P>Childish eh? Yep. But that is the REALITY of who he is right now. Acceptance of reality is the first step to some sort of emotional stablity for you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oooh, ouch, that's a keeper. This is tremendous insight here!<P><BR>And <B>Bumper</B> you so eloquently state, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Of course you are going to have some days that are a whole lot better than others! And some that are a whole lot worse. The point is to learn how to handle bad days without taking it out on another human being. Maybe learning how to use conversation with others to help you get out of the mood of the bad day, rather than trying to make someone else as miserable as you are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> B*I*N*G*O! That's also a keeper! I must remember that. Are you taking notes Michele?! You've got some of the wise one's onto this thread! <P>It's so true... in pain, how we look to "scapegoat" another person to take that pain away from us... like the monkey on my back thrown on to yours... that's so immature! But, who's guilty... raise your hands! Yup, that'd be me! Wow... how to get a grip on this. <P>Okay folks... any more thoughts? Where's <B>SoTired2000</B>?! <P>Keep this one going as it's so useful for many!<P>Cheers!<BR>Nicole<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17<p>[This message has been edited by OvrCs (edited July 26, 2001).]

To all --<P>You have all given me such great information on this topic. It is helping tremendously. I am taking notes right and left and feel very special that I have some of the big guns involved in my growth. You are all the best.<P>I have been continuing with my Plan A/B and I feel it has been working for me in all of my relationships. I know it is working with my husband too but he is just not in a place to show it.<P>Well since I started this thread the other day and worked through my bad day, my husband has continued to ask me everyday WHAT'S WRONG. I have simply replied with "nothing is wrong" or "I am tired". You see, I am in a real catch 22 situation with my husband which is what prompted me to bring this up on this forum. Even yesterday, I was in a great mood all day and because I was doing things around the house (laundry, cleaning, cooking dinner, etc.), he thought something was wrong. No, just trying to get things done before the weekend. <P>Here is my catch 22. Where our relationship stands right now, it appears to bother him when I am happy because he thinks that I assume that everything is okay with our marriage. He makes my happiness a LB for him. If I appear to be having a bad day or am not as happy as I was the day before, he thinks something is wrong. Again, a LB for him. This is what brings me to the confusion and is why I have continued with my Plan A approach and have incorporated some Plan B also. I informed him last week that I am giving up on trying because I can't seem to do anything right in his eyes and when I am doing the right things, he makes them bad by telling me I am acting like everything is okay. <P>Here is my new problem that arose last night and I don't feel I can bring it to his attention. As I posted earlier in this thread, we discussed him wanting to leave at the end of July. The kids were aware of this and now, my 6 year old asked me last night what is going to happen. I asked here what she was talking about and she reminded me that July is over in a couple of days and wants to know if her daddy is still leaving. I was dumbfounded. I did not have an answer for her but did not want to tell her she should ask her father because then he will think I have put her up to this. She also asked me a couple of weeks ago when I had to go pick up H up from work if "Me and daddy were still together?" That one answered with a simple yes. What should I do in this situation?<P>Since I know my husband doesn't really want to know WHAT'S WRONG, I really need to get it off of my chest today because I feel like I could LB if I don't so here it goes.<P>WHAT'S WRONG?<P>I am tired of not feeling loved. I am tired of not feeling needed. I am tired of the confusion. I am tired of the unknown status of our relationship. I am tired of not being able to show affection to my husband. I am tired of having one-way conversations. I am tired of not being able to tell him I love him. I am tired of him sleeping in a different room. I miss my best friend, my companion and my lover. These are all things that I cannot tell him because he is tired of talking about our problems. That is why I can't answer the question of WHAT'S WRONG.<P>Thanks again for letting me vent. I look forward to your advice.<P>Michele<P>

""""Here is my catch 22. Where our relationship stands right now, it appears to bother him when I am happy because he thinks that I assume that everything is okay with our marriage.""""<P>OR it could be that when you are happy, he can see that your dealing with things, and instead of having to "take care" of you, he has to deal with his own feelings. He has to deal with the guilt of the end of the relationship and the hardship's that the children will have to endure. JUST A THOUGHT.<P>I can offer no advise on the children. The only thing that I can say is how "we" did it. When my x decided to move out, we sat down with the children (11,9,6 girls) and both told them what was going on. There was no rock throwing or anything, just conversation and tears. The kids really need both of your support through this chapter ending in their lives.<P>With the end of month fastly approaching, I'm quite sure that they are filled with fear and doubt. They really do deserve to know what is going on. As LB'ing as it may be, I guess that I would have to ask your H if he's moving and either way you need to have a sit down with the children. Dam, I feel sorry for them.<P>Wish I had some great words of wisdom.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

You know, Losthusband,<P>You hit on something that surprised me regarding my own situation. I had never figured out why it would drive my H nuts when I was happy. He would say to me, "You're too happy" and was often upset by it. I just didn't get it. Now it fits, because he said to me a couple of months ago "I'm done rescuing you" I was offended because I never wanted to be rescued. That implies that I am weak. I am a professional woman and pretty independent. NOW I realize, it was more about him than me. <P>Your analysis could certainly apply in this case too.<P>Just goes to show, you can learn by reading up on other peoples issues.<P>hopefulheart

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostHusband:<BR><B>OR it could be that when you are happy, he can see that your dealing with things, and instead of having to "take care" of you, he has to deal with his own feelings. He has to deal with the guilt of the end of the relationship and the hardship's that the children will have to endure. JUST A THOUGHT.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bill --<P>I think you do have something here. This is how I have felt on several ocassions when I am in a "good place", it starts to make him have to really think about everything.<P>As far as the kids go, I do want to ask my husband if we can let the kids know what their future holds. I don't think he is planning on leaving at the end of July but kids don't forget and they have a right to know.<P>Your post brought me to tears just thinking of the pain they will have to endure if he does decide to leave.<P>Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers.<P>Michele<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sballplyr:<BR>[BI don't think he is planning on leaving at the end of July but kids don't forget and they have a right to know.<P>Your post brought me to tears just thinking of the pain they will have to endure if he does decide to leave.<P>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not only do they have a right to know, they have a NEED to know. I can only imagine the anxiety they are going through right now. Reading your post earlier, brought me back in time to the day we told our children, and a few tears were shed in Kansas for your upcoming talk.<P>(((Michele)))<P>I'll check back in with you on Monday. I sure hope that everything goes OK and that you don't leave those little darlings second guessing for too long.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-