Hey all! <P>I've been reading and taking in all of the wisdom of you all during the passed few weeks. I have learned alot about Plan A and alot about how to deal with a spouse that wants to divorce me when I don't want to be divorced. <P>Just to update everyone- I screwed up and had an affair. My husband served me with a divorce back LAST December. I have been trying so hard to make things work. I have repented to him and to God - and had no contact with the A. I want to keep my family together.<P>About a week ago something very weird happened. My husband who was dead set to divorcing me all of a sudden (I swear - overnight) decided that he was moving back in and that he wanted things to work. He wasn't starting fights or contributing to them, and he was being overly nice. Of course, I'm worried about his motives. In the last 8 months he has threatened to make me desolate and to only have me have supervised visits with our boys. I have tried to understand his rage. I can't imagine his pain, but have tried to get connected with it. <P>Today - he scheduled counselling. He told me that he didn't expect me to go (that is very strange - usually it is an ultimatum with him - - "Peggy - you go to counselling or I'm finalizing the divorce". ) I didn't want to go but I showed up - to give every effort I can to make my marriage work. My husband started giving me "God's Plan" for our marriage and our family and I shared a few things that I have learned here. I'm telling you all that I have read probably 30 marriage/self help/ save your marrige/keep romance in your marriage/What God can and will do to save your marriage - - - blah blah blah books. I have never learned more than I have in the last couple of weeks that I have been reading each and every one of your posts and every reply. I am not happy at all that the counsellor dismissed the things I was saying about marriage builders so quickly. I have always been one in couselling to just answer and not contribute much - but I asked her to please check things out before she judged things. I'm startinng to think that maybe the counsellor is on my husband's side, which I understand completely. I hate counselling, and I have told her that. If any of you remember my previous posts - my husband is one that has dragged me to several counsellors and elders of our chuch to have me air our dirty laundry because of "accountability". <P>Anyway...long story short - has anyone had a spouse that has totally done a 360? He hated me and wanted to get rid of me. One of my previous posts said that he claimed that I was holding him hostage in our relationship because I wanted to keep our family together. He has told me time and time again that he would be a "fool" to dismiss the divorce motion. He has told me this for 8 months. All of a sudden everything is ok? I'm ok and he needs to work on himself? He is dismissing the divorce? <P>The sad thing now is that I'm not sure I can do all of the work to fix things. We have literally been at each other's throats for 8 months. We have threatened with kid custody and everything. We have been separated, and have thrived being away from each other. It's almost like we have figured out that we don't like being together. I'm very suspicious of his motives now. Did his attorney tell him to suck up to me so that he doesn't loose the boys? Is he just afraid of being alone? Why ..... all of a sudden is he changing his tune?<P>I'm so confused. Should I trust my heart, or my head. Do I do what is right for my kids and what is "pure" and try and work on this, or what? Why does he hate me for so long and all of a sudden change? I have to admit, that I hate the phrase (like many of you have said too) that I love him but I'm not "in love with him". I have been honest with him about not being attracted to him physically and that I didn' t know when (if ever) that kind of thing would happen again between us. He said he loves me enough to take the chance. <P>I don't know where to go from here. I have been the "Rah- rah marriage " person so long that I don't know how to act now. <P>Totally confused,<BR>Peggy

Peggy-<BR>I don't know how much help I will be- but let me tell you this atleast-<P>From the opposite end of the spectrum- I am the betrayed- my H the cheater-<P>He is doing everything possible to put us together, turning to God, counseling, loving me- has been for 5 months- I on the other hand, am like your husband, and I am divorcing him (long story)- suffice it to say- as soon as I meet our states requirements- it is OVER- difference though is that we are on friendly terms and I haven't tried to make his life hell for awhile like it sounds your H has..<P>OK- so what I am trying to get at is this- what your H is experiencing may really be a huge huge 100% turn around to you. I know, being in his shoes, that I would have to be a completely different person than I am now to look at my STBX and say- "ok- move home- I love you and want to be married- forget the divorce" It hasn't happened yet for me- and i've told him not to hold his breath- but I really can see that maybe for your H it HAS happened and is very real??? When you deal with something so hurtful and angering as affairs- the reactions are that of extremes- does that make sense??? <P>I mean honestly, all you can do is let him love you, pick up some of that slack in your relationship, and also give it some time to see if he means it?<P>I know for me- I have nothing left to give- NOTHING- my STBX is like you in that he has been doing EVERYTHING these past couple months- and has told me he isn't giving up- because I literally have NOTHING left to give- all that is in me is anger and defensiveness.... To reiterate- reactions to affairs are extremes- and maybe your H has decided that he loves you enough to be extreme about staying together??<P>I tell you- If I could get some of what your husband has- I would not be moving ahead with plans to end my marriage and make my three kids divorced statistics...<P>Good luck to you and keep us posted with what these next weeks and months activities???<P>Sauni

Just a few more details......the affair was with his best friend. It was a double whammie for my husband. Believe me - I'm not proud of that...very sad about it. The hate that my husband has towards me is two fold. It's about the betrayal of me, plus his best friend hasn't made an effort to apologize or anything. So....I am getting the brunt of that anger and hurt too (I know...I deserve it). <P>I guess I should just be open to this and see how things go. I don't want any intimacy right now....I can't even stand the thought of it (I'm not sure why) and he wants that. Our counsellor thinks that my husband will get tired of no sex and maybe leave anyway. I can deal with that, but I'm not going to lie about anything at this point. <P>The sick thing that I keep asking myself is this - how long will it last that there is SO MUCH effort to even being in the same room as each other. Does God want us and our kids to live through this kind of turmoil for so long? That is alot of what my "LivingInLImbo" name suggests. How long do we stay unhappy just to do the right thing?<P>Peggy

Hey Peggy- <P>"How long do we stay unhappy just to do the right thing?"<P>You don't. You can't.<P>I have watched my parents for years- my dad was the cheater- my mom the betrayed- and they are absolutely MISERABLE!!<P>Watching them (I found out about it at 11 and they didn't know that I knew)- it literally formed my philosphies about my situation today- they have stayed together to "do the right thing" (still are)- and are two of the most miserable people I have ever met!!!! Do you want to be like that? No- I'm sure not- Do I want to be like that? NOT A CHANCE!!!!<P>The fact of the matter is- "fix it or move on"- I know your dilemma though- because what happens when one wants to and one doesn't....With your H's change in attitude- does he want to really "fix it" now? If so- you guys might be headed down the right direction to saving your marriage- but if YOU are now- doubting him and this- maybe it isn't going to happen???<P>a. Honestly, even down to the fact that you are questioning your love and desire for him- since you are the WS- do you think you could even remain faithful to him from now until forever?? The fact you- as the WS- don't want a physical relationship with him...that will be very hurtful to him- when it really is usually the OTHER way around....<P>b. Although I admit his extreme turn around might be true and it would be great if it is (like I said before- for us betrayed losers- our reactions tend to be a bit extreme both ways )- I will admit this much also- I have often thought that it would be a hell of a whole lot easier for me to just "play the part" and then one day- screw him over GOOD like he has done to me...great revenge, plus financial security- who could ask for more right?<P>c. plus- everyone in the world knows that it is a WHOLE lot harder for a man to get custody of the kids- and so you have not only screwed him out of a regular marriage- but screwed him out of a normal parent/child relationship with your sons. This does have to be weighing on his mind- so you are right to question the motivation....I know if I were in his shoes- that would be a serious consideration for me as well..<P>Do you want him? Do you want marriage to him? Are you making God the center of your life and then working on your relationship? I'm not in the God mode right now (nother long story)- but I know that if my STBX wasn't having his daily devotions and living for the Lord- I sure as hell wouldn't even be in the same state as he!!! <P>The difference I can tell between you guys and my STBX and I is that it doesn't take all we can muster to be around eachother...I feel bad that you guys, your H included, burnt bridges (custody, etc.) that will make it even harder to forge ahead. That is one thing my STBX and I decided at the beginning- no matter how we may end up hating eachother- the fact we have three kids ties us together forever- and NOTHING we do should jeopardize that. (How old are your kids by the way?)<P>I don't know girl- I wish I could help you more- I just am so on the opposite side of the picture- I thought I might be able to offer some solution to what might be happening- but short of crawling into another person's head and situation- well....<P>Again- best wishes- I hope that you both will seriously evaluate the reasons for wanting to be married and not "settle"- if that is what you are doing on EITHER side- you truly will spend the rest of your life unhappy and looking for a greener pasture!!<P>Sauni <P>

I don't know about counseling--I have never had a good experience with it. I am beginning to understand why so many are wary to go--it's not that they don't want to talk about things and resolve issues. It's the fact that some counselors don't seem to really understand people when in fact, that is the very job they were hired for.<P>For instance--the counselor that I have been seeing (by myself) is seems to understand psychology very well, but is very pro-divorce. What he tells me that there is no way to change another person (true) so if you are unhappy being married to that person, then leave. He has told me on numerous occasions that it is my own fault for being discontent because I have stayed with my husband.<P>Others in the past have told me different and very contrary things.<P>The catholic chaplain told me that I must tolerate and obey my husband in all things in order to be a good wife. It was not my husband's problem, it was mine.<P>One protestant chaplain told me that I was crazy for marrying a man who was not a Christian and that, according to the apostle Paul, if he wanted to leave I should let him, good riddance--and then never make the mistake of being unevenly yoked again.<P>The guy at social services, his main job was to prevent domestic violence, so he told us that whenever either of us was feeling upset, it was OK to leave for whatever amount of time, no matter what the situation. Just as long as we didn't beat on each other. That was his main message.<P>I began talking to another chaplain last year, a wonderful, kind man. But with the experiences that my husband and I had talking to religious counselors, I am afraid to go back with my husband. My husband, pretty much an atheist now, felt that counselors were more focused on his non-belief than on the marriage in that the fact that he not being a Christian husband caused the discord in our marriage. (Maybe so, I say, but that is a disrespectful judgement and I will never say that.)<P>I believe Marriage Builders is the way to go. It makes so much logical sense, and I have grown so much from it. I think that studying the books and participating on the forums have been so much more valuable than any of the counseling experience that I have received.<P>

Just to throw my $.02 into the mix, but there are tons of therapists out there and many of them are quacks! Take your time and shop around for one you like. If you like the MB principles, then you might want to contact Steve Harley directly for some referrals of therapists in your area which may subscribe to the same theories.<P>It's ok to fire your therapist!

Peggy,<P>I had 2 counselors - one local to help me with coping during my exH's affair and then, I also counseled with Steve H while trying to save my marriage. My personal counselor was well aware that I was following MB's. He was familiar and had no problems with any of the concepts. He encouraged me to follow through with it. His only concerns came in at the end when the continued affair had persoanlly affected me too much for me to continue trying to save a marriage my thenH was not at all interested in saving. I was in Plan B and my health had declined - I dropped to 100 lbs and was struggling too much with a totally devasted self-esteem. At the end, he was encouraging me to go forward with the divorce, if that is what I wanted. In the end, it became what I wanted and thus, I did file and go through with it.<P>As to your H's 360 degree turn around. I can imagine his extreme hurt at your affair with his friend. His anger is understandable. Perhaps his change of heart is because even though he is angry and hurt, his love for you is still there and he does feel that his life would be better with you in it than without you. <P>You two have been together an awful long time. It appepars you feel apathetic right now, but it might be in y our best interest in the long run to try to rebuild love and passion with your H, as he appears willing to try. Do know that divorce brings other issues into play, so either way, you never get off scot-free.<P>Take care, Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Thanks for those great responses! I really appreciate the insight you all have. My kids are pretty young - 10, 7 and 4 (my middle son is autistic and will need help forever, therefore my husband and I will always be connected in that way). I am going to put all my faith in the hope that our relationship can be fixed. I'm doing the things I think I need to be doing, and he is telliing me that he loves me enough to wait forever for me. That is what makes this so hard. I would hate to hurt him - again - he seems to all of a sudden have this unconditional love for me - so I guess I'm staying and working. Hope it's not too much HARD WORK. <P>Peggy

Peggy,<P>I wanted to jump in here real quick on two issues:<P>First the counseling. What worked well for me was actually going to 2 different "counselors" - one was a priest at my church who of course gave me the Catholic ideas about marriage. Which I understood and thought about. The second counselor was a licensed family psychologist who gave my wife and I the "logical" view of marriage and relationships. Since I was the one trying to hold onto the marriage, I did not agree totally with the way the second counselor approached marriage in general - he was very "matter of fact" about it. But what worked best for me was to "hear" both of them out, while reading as much as I could, and put it all together to find out what was best for me.<P>Above all the most important part of counseling, for it to truly work, is the unwavering participation of "both" parties. I am divorced - one of the main reasons is that my wife just did not feel it was worth it to "work" on our marriage through the counseling. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you want your marriage to work you have to committ 100% to making it work!<P>The second point is about your husband's turn-around. I think what you may be feeling is kind of a "knee-jerk" reaction. You have been pushing and trying for so long with him, now that he has "turned around" on you, it has interrupted your pattern - the way you were doing things. Whenever that happens to us, a lot of times our first reaction is fear.<P>I think that your husband's actions and intentions are good. I think you more than owe it to him to "trust" him that they are just that. It was after all you who betrayed the trust in your marriage. Don't judge his actions by your feelings.<P>Finally, as my counselor told me some time ago - you may get one more chance at making things work but if you mess up then, you will not only tear your wife up inside, she will no doubt hate you for a long, long time. So I say to you - <BR>"You made a mistake - we are all human and we all mess up. Take responsibility for what you did. Know that you will never know the pain your husband is going through unless he did the same thing to you! Just accept that it is the worst pain he has ever gone through. It will take a long time for him to totally trust you again. But the good news is that people can forgive! And your marriage can not only recover, it can dramatically improve over what it used to be! Keep God in your marriage - you need to not only ask forgiveness from your husband you need to ask forgiveness from yourself and from God." <P>It looks like you are getting a second chance - many spouses don't. Don't waste it.<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike....I love reading your responses to everyone here - but I dreaded getting one from you to me! HA You are so straight forward and wise. You know what they say "The truth hurts sometimes". <P>I have to tell you that the last paragraph of your post to me will be saved in my memory forever. I know alot of people don't get a second chance,and I'm going to try and remember that every day of my life. <P>Second....my husband doesn't give me a choice on the counsellors. He has dragged me to several in the last 8 months. I said in one of my previous posts that I feel like he is almost getting off on hearing me air my dirty laundry to different people every time. It looks like we have settled now into one consellor and she is the one that cut me off at the knees whenI shared a few things I had learned here. I'm no spring chicken (38 years old....married almost 20) and I know for a fact that I have learned more practical things here than I have in the the many many marriage books I have read. <P>Thank you so much for your candid response to me, and to everyone here!<P>Peggy

Oh yeah, Desiree - I love your quote........I must steal it! LOL<P>Thanks for the encouragement!<P>Peggy

Peggy,<P> <P>Oh, listen to Mike. He is so right - many of us never got a second chance to save our marriages!<P>Pulling for you!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>