I will give more details this time. Here is my story again with the in-between-lines. Me and my husband have been in a relationship for 11 years. We have 2 kids. We divorced in 95 because my husband had 2 affairs with 2 different women that I know of (that he admits too). Neither one of us were Christians. Through the divorce I became a Christian. We were separated/divorce for 2 years. There was 6 months when we had no contact at all. In 1997 he became a Christian and we remarried. When we first married in 1997 I visited his office and he had a picture of another woman on his desk. Then a month later I found him in a sex chat room. In 1999 I found a rough draft of a birthday card that my husband sent to one of the girls he had an affair with in our first marriage. It said he would meet her for dinner from now until the year 2065. So he is making a long term commitment to her. I found an email to her where he calls her "love" and she calls him "babe". We separated and I set some boundaries. One of the boundaries was that he would cc: me and our counselor every email he got from any women. He did that once or twice but always sluffed off when I got comfortable. He met her one night after making up an elaborate lie to me. And confessed after I showed him proof that he did in fact meet her. We separated and set more boundaries and he came back and one of the boundaries was for him to have weekly accountability. We went to Bible Studies, he prayed in groups and shared his experiences. Then I found out he contacted her again during the times of accountability. Now he is doing the usual jumping through hoops, saying all the right things to all the right people to get me back. He does it everytime. At first all friends and family were on my side but as he has talked to each of them one by one he has managed to convince them that THIS time he has really changed and really wants to work on the marriage. He does this everytime. Everytime someone calls to talk to me and they tell me how different he is... I get resentment and bitterness and anger towards them. They quote scripture at me. I believe I have forgiven my husband and I do love if but I do not have to live this way. I have scripture that backs what I am doing like 1 Corinthians 5. And they say I have no proof that he has had a sexual affair with her THIS time (reread this post - I think it is proof enough). I bring up Matthew 18:16-17 and they say he hasn't refused to listen that he is willing to work at it. Look I really want to be in God's will. I really want to please God. I am a strong believer. The church is rallying around him and praying for our marriage. I don't want it. It is my life. No one has walked my shoes. Why am I being the one who is having to leave my church home and losing friendships because I have chosen to stand for this divorce. Because I have finally thought enough of myself to say I deserve better than this. Better doesn't mean another man. Better means alone, as a single-parent with God. Someone please affirm that what I am doing is o.k. I feel like it is but everyone feels like it is their business to call me out of the blue and tell me I am not doing the right thing. And it throws me into this confusion and depression - that can't be from God. <BR>

Reading all you have done to save your marriage got me to thinking about a a good friend of mine that went thru some of the same problems in her marriage. <BR>She finally had enough and closed the door, you I think have reached that stage. <P>Are you wrong? NO!!! <P>There is only so long you can hang on to something that makes you unhappy hoping it will turn to something else. True insanity is continuing to do the same things over and over and expecting different results. He has made his choices not you, he has to live with the results now. <P>There is an ole sayng that you get out of life what you ask from it. It is time you asked for something more decide your life is worth more and that you deserve more. <P>Set your boundries higher and expect and get the love and respect you are entitled to out of life. No one should be willing to put up with that kind of crap from anyone. <P>I believe we should do everything in our power to save a marraige but he has shown you time and time again the type of person he is and that you can never trust him. The Bible backs you up in what you are doing. <P>This is your life get some of it!!

Thanks tator tot. It concerns me that you and I seem to be the only one who feels this way. No one else replied. I have had to leave my home church because now I am the bad guy. I have lost key friendships. The Bible says God hates divorce but it also says He hates sin. He does not want us rolling around in it and allowing it in our home to corrupt us and our children.

Nina too,<BR>You asked if I was Australian - maybe you got that from my name: Notheard. Not Heard - that is how I feel if it is a feeling. No one hears me. If they did, they would get what I am doing.

(((Notheard)))<P>I don't know what to say, just WOW!!!! What patience and compassion you've shown over the years.<P>We could go into a HUGE discussion about the religous issues and for every verse that says stay there is one that says let him go. So let's just leave that out of this for now.<P>Let's just focus on you. Like many others here, I won't tell you to end your marriage and by the same token I'm not going to preach to you about saving it. You are at the point now where you need to decide what emotional standard you are willing to live at.<P>From the tone of your post your mind is made up and you are prepared to close this chapter and move on to the next. I don't mean that in a bad way, you just seem like you have already began the grieving process. As someone who is recently divorced I will support you anyway possible.<P>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers from Kansas<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Okay, I'll come clean as to why I thought you were Australian....<P>You said in one of your posts that you were "pissed off". Now that is ALWAYS the way we say it in Australia, but Americans tend to say they're "pissed" at something. I don't know many Americans, but that is the term I've heard when the occasion comes up. If an Aussie says they're "pissed" it means they're rolling drunk, so that's why we always have the "off" when we mean we're annoyed. LOL

Now if she had said "bugger" that would tell you she was an Aussie. We American's use pissed off too as well as pissed. <P>

LOL, LOL!<P>I knew Bonnet was Australian the minute she used the word "Cripes". You can't get more Australian than that, except for "Fair dinkum"!!!

you guys are funny but I don't feel like laughing. I am doing fine and trying to press forward with this aweful divorce and all the pain that comes with it and then someone will call and throw me into confusion and depression by bringing doubt into my life by telling me I am doing the wrong thing. I am allowing them to bring that in my life. They are people who matter to me. I wish I could just reply "interesting thought but no" to their unwanted advise. But it really effects me.

Just when I need my friends the most, I am losing them because they don't agree with me. I guess I need to start a new life with no husband and all new friends.

I am sorry I know this is hard and really the only person that can decide this is you. There is no magic formula hat will tell you when it is over, it is something in you that has to say enough I can't take anymore. You know your H better than anyone and only you can tell if there is a chance or as Nina might say he is just a [censored] (Aussie slang: means full of it). <P>Maybe you ought to pick up the book all Men are [censored]-holes I think is has a pretty good descrption in there of the type of man that has done what your H has and how to deal with him. <BR> <BR>And yes I think all of us men are A-holes some of us worse than others. <P>Good luck and <<<<<<HUGS>>>>>><P>

Oh, notheard,<P>I hope we aren't upsetting you, I really do. <P>If we joke sometimes, it is in the hope that we can make someone laugh, and in times like these we can use all the laughs we can get. (Aside: speaking of the word "pissed" from the last post, a "pisser" in Australian is a really funny joke.) No-one here wants to make anyone feel bad, because we all know that we feel bad enough already.<P>I think the first thing you should do is take your phone plug out of the wall, but if you don't want to do that, maybe telling it straight to these friends will make them see your side of things more.<P>I know that's hard, I had a friend here today and I didn't tell her the whole story, but maybe I should have, you know? She had a separation too, and while it worked out for her, she may have been able to help. I don't know, just a thought.<P>Do you confide in any friends about your story? It really helps if someone you trust knows all the details. They don't make a decision for you, because YOU have to do that; it just helps YOU to know someone is listening. And believe me we are all listening here. We have all been where you are to some extent, and we know the pain. WE are here for you!<P>So now here's why I came here. I have only ONE friend I could tell (through moving around a lot, etc). I would drive her NUTS if I kept going on about it, so I come here to vent, to discuss and to help if I can. And I've found friends who are right there with me. <P>Please keep us posted. Remember, follow your heart in this situation...you have been very patient for so, so long. If what YOU want is divorce, and release, then you go girl! We'll be here while it's progressing, whichever way you decide.<P>I wish you well.<P> <P>

You guys aren't upsetting me. My circumstances are upsetting. A lot of friends do know every little detail and they still think I should give him another try. I am glad you are there to listen. I have only ONE friend who supports my decision. i do want divorce, and release... It just doesn't feel good most times but it beats the alternative - putting my heart on the line again. I dont want to do that. I just wish there was an easy way out. But long term I think divorce is the better way (I never thought I would say that).

Friends often say what THEY think you want to hear. Because it's devastating for a marriage to end, they naturally go that route. Easy for them, they don't have to live with it.<P>As to the easy way out, here's something one of my friends said to me in the early days when I found out about the A. She had the same situation, and she left. They reconciled but what she said was, it was too hard fo her to stay when she found out, and she thought I was making the tougher choice. Well, I guess she was right, because he waited until we moved to another country, where I had virtually no-one before he left.<P>The thing is, it has to be your choice, no matter what you do!!!

notheard, what exactly are your friends advising you to do? What exactly are they saying you are doing wrong?<P>Your husband has entirely lost his credibility, and it is going to take a lot more to rebuild it than <I>saying</I> all the right things. How do your friends address this problem?<BR>

this isn't fair!!!!<P>how can you put up with all of that<P> ive been faithful, loving, considerate and worked very hard at preserving and building my marriage and where does that get me? and you put up with all of that? Why couldn't i have married a woman like you, someone that believes in something beautiful, morals, and ideals, obviously he doesn't and he has made his choices and yours too because you already know that even if yall are back together he still wont be 'with' you.<P> knowing there are other idealistic, never give up type of people in the world gives me hope that maybe even in 2001 i might be able to find a woman my age that isn't a drug addict.<P> If you gave him another chance and he would cheat on you and you know that why consider giving him another chance?

Nina too, you say your friend thought you made a tougher choice. Are you saying it was your choice to divorce. My Friends say to give him time to prove or find out if he has changed. I think it would be easier if he left me for OW than to keep me dangeling like this. My husband can externally do the right thing for up to 8 months until I catch him. I don't like always wondering. He NEVER volunteers info, when I find out something I have to PROVE to him that I know. I always start by giving him an option to be honest. Like this last time: I said I know you contacted her, please tell me more. He basically swore on his life he has not. I asked him 3 times telling him I have proof but I wanted him to be honest with me. He said he has not, in any way contacted her nor does he want to. So I sent him a copy of the email HE wrote to her and THEN he says it was dumb, he's sorry. I really don't want this marriage, I just don't know WHY I should feel guilty filing for divorce. No one can MAKE me feel a certain way. Thats what the therapists say. I allow people to make me feel guilty. I wish it was that easy. I know all the therapist info I just can't get it from my head to my heart.

(((((((((((((((notheard)))))))))))))))))))<P>My girlfriend said I made the tougher choice because I decided to STAY and work on it. He did too until about 6 weeks ago when I saw the signs. I spent 6 months wrestling with the one affair I know he had, and it was killing me. I knew I had to let go of it. Two days after I told him I was forgiving him and trusting him he went over the wall.<P>Your H has done this for years. I couldn't have stuck it out as long as you. There comes a time when you have to be true to yourself. Don't feel guilty, you want to move on.<P>My dad has a saying that has helped me a lot recently:<P>"When the going gets tough, the tough get going."<P>Be tough. Do what is right FOR YOU.<P>I wish you well,<BR>Jacky<P><BR>

Be careful, joconnor. My husband was the first guy I dated that didn't do drugs. Apparantly he had other addictions. Read the book "Boundaries in Dating" by Henry Claude and Robert Townsend. It has helped me see all the warning signs I wish I would have paid attention to 11 years ago. Thanks everyone, your responses tell me I'm o.k. and not crazy for wanting out. Why should I stick around and wait for him to leave me? or worse put me through this again. I want out because being with him is causing me more harm than good. I want my sanity - I felt like he was robbing me of that. I think what gets me most about my friends is that I am a strong Christian and I do just want to do what God wants me to do. They say if I am divorcing him and it is not God's will I will reap the consequence of my decision. In my opinion, I didn't make the decision, my husband did, every time he contacted her. I know God loves me and He knows my heart and He and only He can know the pain I have experienced through the years with this man. You guys have been a great encouragement today.