I moved with my children and husband out of state to support a career move. We basically gave up living close to a support system consisting of grandparents for the kids and aunts, uncles and cousins. We live 1,000 miles away from ANY family now. For the 3.5 years that we've lived in Florida (the new state) my husband has emotionally neglected both the children and myself. He either works all the time (he doesn't HAVE to, he choses to) or he "has to be left alone" b/c he is recovering from working so hard. I'm tired of us not having a life that includes a husband/father. I'm considering divorce, but only if I can be near a support system including my extended family in my home state. It's not like I want to take the kids away from their Dad, but gee - he spends minimal time with them NOW, I don't see the point in making us live here if we divorce. My kids would greatly benefit from a relationship with grandparents that REALLY want a relationship with them. I would have help with childcare since I'd have to work. I haven't consulted an attorney, and I know this is really a legal question and I need to, but does anyone know if my husband could really prevent me from moving back home with the kids after the divorce? I'm a stay-at-home mother right now. I'm assuming I'd get custody just b/c I don't think my husband would WANT primary custody. Anybody know?

Never *assume* anything. (This is coming from a woman who's been in court 41 times...)<P>Alright..have you talked to HIM about any of this? What have the two of YOU done to rekindle this relationship of yours? Why is he working so many hours? Is there something you can cut back on? Is there a way that you can help generate income to take the pressure off of him? (just thoughts ok.... I'm brainstorming here!)

Read my response on the En board.<P>You are way too impatient, and are choosing very poor solutions for your kids, as well as in most states, you<BR>can't take the kids out of state permanently without his approval.<P>But have you really earned your right for a divorce?<P>Have you learned all that you can about your H and you? your communication styles/expectations? his goals and your goals?<P>you have just started here, and instead of considering divorce, I would encourage you not to take the socially easy way out, but to do the hard work to earn yourself a divorce so that you won't give your kids a poor legacy that will have a high probability of being repeated, and for the wrong reasons.<P>Here is a quote from a very well respected old timer, edited to be more appropriate for your situation, but still bluntly worded, and i think it is very appropriate to everyone.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> We only have the power to change ourselves. If the habits, patterns and behaviors of the past have us stuck in undesirable circumstances, then it is time to take stock and evaluate new options.<P>. . . No relationship is a function of just one person. Where there is an abuser, there will always be found a victim. If the abuse happens more than one time, then the "victim" needs to see what attitude and behavior has led to being such a "good" victim.<P>. . . .<P>Please note, this is not a personal attack. You have come the Emotional Needs board and asked for help. This is Marriage Builders, not marriage whiners. You can't DO anything to build it until you take responsibility for what you haven't done and have done in the past. I simply responded to your very one-sided post that makes your H out to be the all bad one. Can't work with that. What do you WANT to accomplish here? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your husband is neglectful of you and your children's emotional needs. Materially, he is all you could expect, and more. <P>The former is a frustration, the latter a blessing. <P>I'm sure you want to retain the latter ... and throw away the former. That sounds selfish to me. <P>There is apparently no issue of abuse, nor addiction, nor infidelity (although temptations have apparently arisen from time to time). <P>Are you really offering anything? Or just demanding? Have you assumed things never will get better? How long has it taken you to come to that conclusion? Do you do things for your own satisfaction? Or just half-do things for him because you're so unfulfilled and depressed? Have you seen a doctor about your feelings? What do you think of <I>Surrendered Wives</I>? <P>I'd say Plan A is in order. Before there <I>is</I> an affair.

Well, we are living below our means, saving and aren't in debt, so no, there's not a financial reason why my H works so many hours. I don't find it feasible to get a part-time job right now since I'd also have to find childcare for my 3 year old and 18 month old - it really wouldn't make sense financially, plus we just don't "need" the money (he's not working overtime and getting paid for it just to earn extra money, put it that way). Besides, we BOTH decided I would contribute to the family by staying home and taking care of the house and children, which I do.<P>I don't believe that divorce is "taking the easy way out." I'm the one coming here trying to get help, not my H. My H wouldn't see any of this as a problem if I didn't say anything. So I think an assumption that I'm just whining for the sake of whining and trying to "take the easy way out" is a insult. From my brief post you guys really don't know what I've been through.<P>And yes, there is history of abuse (I didn't mention it b/c I don't like talking about that part of the relationship). My H has hit me in the past (hasn't in over a year - I told him I'd definitely leave the next time he did) Right now his thing is to call me b*t*h whenever I bring up a touchy subject. He starts yelling and name calling. He's been calm lately, and we've had counseling on that topic in the past, but his temper gets the best of him. He has a high level of frustration.<P>Sorry if I make him out to sound like a bad guy, but it's the truth. I even hate to admit it - the past hitting and verbal abuse. I'm in denial half the time, too.<P>I give a lot to him and the family. His favorite dinners are made often. I give him his "quiet" time. I let him dabble in his favorite hobby - coin collecting, while I don't spend much on myself. I give and give and give until I just can't stand it anymore. <P>He's flirted with my mommmy friends in the past, to the point where I thought he was going to have an affair with one of them. (We "worked" that out - basically I wasn't "paying enough attention to him," all the while he was ignoring MY needs - hey, I had sole responsbility for a newborn, a 2 year old and a 5 year old at the time - with little help from him) I'm not sure why I need to start Plan A. Who's going to have the affair b/c their needs aren't being met? My H? Ha ha. How about ME? <P>I know nothing of the Surrendered Wife. What does that mean, I'm supposed to be a doormat and never ask for my needs to be met? That I can't be treated right? That I can't look out for my children's and mine's best interest?<P>I'm sorry I posted here. I feel worse after the assumptions you all made about me and my post. I'm hurting and I'm lonely. I'm just trying to figure out my options IF this marriage fails. I'm not saying divorce is what I plan to do. I've worked alot at this marriage and initiated all the counseling. I love my H but I also love myself and my children. Give me a break.

Well, <I>abuse</I> nails it. He's walking around frustrated he can't hit, and so he's doing what he can verbally.<P>Believe me, I've been there. At times, I was sure my name was <I>a**hole</I>. And she <I>still</I> left me. <P>He gets help, or you get out. You can't afford to surrender when the opponent is a <I>war criminal</I>.

ThreeDarlins,<P>As a new member to this board...I have been looking at the other forums also. I am quite disturbed that you said the following on the emotional support board:<P>"To be fair and honest, my H and I have other issues, too. I posted on the "Divorcing/Divorced" board and got slammed, so I had to "fess up" about our past. My H has hit me before (slapped me on three separate occasions over the course of a few years). We got help and he hasn't done that in over a year. He knows that the next time will be the last.<P>My H has a terrible temper (doesn't take it out on the children, thank goodness, just me). He name calls when he is frustrated or when I bring up "relationship" issues or other sticky subjects at improper times (which sometimes can be anytime). To his credit he is working on not flying off the handle and calling me names. During our latest disagreement he left the room and cooled off without name calling, something VERY difficult for him to do."<P>In response to that, and reviewing what everyone has said to you on both boards, I would urge you to seek counselling for the issues that you brought up.<P>Good luck.<BR>

Ohio attorney here. I don't make judgments about whether people should divorce or not. That's a personal decision. However, to answer your questions about the kids, and I can only really speak of Ohio, however, there is such a thing as the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act(UCCJA). If there is no custody order, and there's not if no divorce has been filed, you don't need written permission to take the children. However, there can be some potential pitfalls if he would decide to make custody an issue. Talk to an attorney that does family law. Even if you do it in your now home state, courts generally do not prohibit someone from moving later(may have to adjust visitation) unless the sole reason for moving is to keep children away from the other parent. Good luck. Lee<P>------------------<BR>

Not in my state - here you have to go to court to get permission to move out of state unless you have the non-custodial parent's written permission. And, from what I understood from my attorney, you need to prove that the children, and not just you, would benefit from the move. An example would be if the custodial parent were unemployed or marginally employed, and were offered a good job in another state that would, for instance, allow the children to live above the poverty level.

I understand your feelings somewhat. But please listen, believe me, right now you probably should switch from your feelings to what's best for you. Your marriage can still be saved. It is much more difficult to save a marriage after separating, especially moving out of state. And with three children, believe me it's not easy. I am in that situation. My husband moved out last year and I filed for child custody and support of our 3 children, rather than a divorce. I then moved out of state to be closer to a family support system here (my hometown). Having your husband's love and support is much more ideal for you and your children, than even your parents'. Your children need their father and mother most. If you can do anything to keep your marriage intact, work on it. I am not better off being here than being with my husband. Some good Christian marriage counseling and humbling yourselves before God to change your marriage will bring many more benefits. Don't tolerate physical abuse, but the emotional abuse can stop if you and your husband begin to meet each other's real needs. I wish I still had the chance you have. If you and your husband are still living together, get him to agree to some counseling quickly. Otherwise, you could end up in my situation, a lonely, but still married, poor young woman with 3 children to raise alone. My husband doesn't want a divorce but also still refuses counseling. The separation has been unbelievably difficult and not worth it. My husband is a decent man and I "thought" I could do better without him and basically ran him off. He was not into adultery, drugs, alocohol, etc. and was bringing home his pay. I now we could have posssibly worked things out with some solid counseling. I know you're not me, but think about trying other alternatives and leave the divorce word out of your vocabulary for now. Separation ends only in reconciliation or divorce. It's a high risk game. Try counseling first.

I live in Florida, and I'm getting divorced. I shared your concerns as well, for I had read so much on the Internet about non-custodial spouses preventing the custodial ones from leaving the state. The favored custodial arrangement here is shared parental responsibility with one parent acting as the custodial parent. My lawyer said that NO judge would keep me from leaving the state, even if my husband kicked up a fuss about it ("...we live in a highly mobile society..."). I'm like you--I have no source of emotional support here because my family lives in NC. I would not be taking my child away from his father, but to a place where we both could benefit from many relatives, including those our son's own age. There is no one here for us, even on my husband's side. I have well demonstrated my cooperation with respect to visitation issues already, and I would be more than willing to provide a generous schedule that would allow our son and his father ample time together. I had voiced my plan to my H many times in the past, so he is well aware of my desire. However, my lawyer said it would be best not to mention it unless my H wants to make an issue out of it. If it's not part of the marital agreement, then it's understood you may leave the state with the kids. I think we have written something like "visitation per county guidelines," which states that any agreement by the parents is respected, or you can do what's in the guidelines. My husband was an abusive, alcoholic spouse, but I would not keep our child away from him at all. I've always said he could have the child whenever he wants visitation.<P>You can leave the state now, if you'd like. Perhaps some distance would put your marital issues in a fresh perspective? If you divorced, you'd still have to divorce here in Florida. Go check with a few attorneys. Often they will consult with you for free. This might be a good idea since Florida is one of those "wonderful" no-fault divorce states.<P>Good luck,<BR>Nell

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate the straightforward advice about "what the law says," esp. in Florida. I know that every situation is unique and it "all depends," but to just get an idea and know is comforting. I'm not really considering divorce right now b/c I think we can work things out. We worked through the physical abuse issue so I think we can work through anything. If it turns out that I'm wrong then at least I have an idea of what might happen if worse comes to worse.<P>

stillmarried:<P>Thanks for your personal response. I agree w/you and I am going to try and work on my marriage. I just needed to know.<P>To everyone else, I can't leave a personal response but I thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my question. Your responses and insights are appreciated. I have a limited amount of time to post so I can't thank each one of you or comment on each post personally.<P><BR>