One day at a time is what my H told me. After being married 21 years he was lonely. He left me during the night because he didn't like the ideal I told him to grow up and join the rest of the world. He came home tho, after giving me the worst night in my life. It wasn't a violent arguement, but one in the heat of the moment spoken because I had made move to have sex with him. I was hurt because he had just told me that he had put down on a calander how many times in the last 3 months I had tried to make love to him. (Never caring that for 8 weeks of that time I was spending it getting our daughter's wedding arranged.)<BR>The passion in our marriage was gone, it had all boiled down to nothing. I felt I wasn't getting what I needed in the marriage. He did to. Only it was a different thing. I want to feel good about my marriage, I want it to be a relationship based on things other then sex. He wanted sex. And he wanted me to be the one intiating it all the time. Didn't matter about the sweet nothing that go with the marriage. <BR>We decided that we would give our marriage another chance. I smothered him with all the things I wanted: Praise, gifts,words, time . Time being the biggie. I said I love you everytime I saw him, or even talked on the phone. Only thing is after about 2 weeks of me busting my butt, I still wasn't getting anything in return. I feel cheated and I feel scared. I am not sure things will work out for us , when we have so much going against. I pray for the relationship that I know seems doomed. What can I do when I am so scared that if I mess up in his eyes that he will leave and not come back if don't give him the sex He needs. What can I do to make him see that a relationship is more. <BR>UnSureWhat-2-DoNext<p>[This message has been edited by UnsureWhat-2-DoNext (edited September 01, 1999).]

I could swear your my wife. Not really but sex has become a major stumbling block for us. We're in marriage counselling but the guy(counselor) just wants to focus on communicating and on making my wife feel safe. In all honesty I am very frustrated. i am better this week, I sense some progress in myself and a growing patience, but it's been painful to me.<BR>A big difference between Men and Women is the importance of sex and what it means. From what I have read, and hear my wife saying, for women ,first comes love and affection then sex. Sex celebrabrates the daily love making in a relationship for a woman. For a man sex affirms the love it says "I love You" more than words, cuddles etc... It fuels the fire of romance. Its a hard dance for us men and women because we have such different needs and expectations.<BR>I'm trying to encourage us to move on to some sex therapy. My wife's desire level is way low but I need to learn how to appraoach her and get my physical needs met. It hasn't been easy. You wrote <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I smothered him with all the things I wanted: Praise, gifts,words, time . Time being the biggie. I said I love you everytime I saw him, or even talked on the phone. Only thing is after about 2 weeks of me busting my butt, I still wasn't getting anything in return. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You need to tell him your needs but smother him in what he wants not what you want or need. My wife likes flowers but if she gave me flowers well there nice but if she put on some lingerie outfit I like or pointed to in a store, then I'd probably feel the same positives flowers would mean for her. Does that make sense.<BR>You mentioned your daughter's marriage. talk about stress for both of you! And he's losing his little girl. Maybe too its all reminded him (on a subsconscious level) of how you two were when you started out. <BR>My wife wants it safe and nonsexual, but to me that was a rejection. i pointed out to her that everything is sexual that's part of what marriage is about. She mentioned when we used to hold hands dating. And I explained that even that was sexual, afterall, the first time I held her hand I wasn't exactly thinking "Hey what a great new friend/sister!" It was more like "Wow! She's so beautiful and she's holding my hand this is betting closer to more than nice words)<BR>I hope my ramblings helped a little. You and your husband, like my wife and I, need to work out a real middle ground. I have to learn to give her the affection she needs and she needs to learn to let go and give me the affection/passion I need.<BR>Good Luck and One Day at a Time is better than nothing. And try not to let the calendar get to you, he's only trying to say he misses you and wants to be with you more.

Kam, <BR>Thanks for your reply. I don't want you to get it wrong. I love Sex! To me its the best thing a couple can have together. Just that out of a 24 hour day, I get about 7-8 hours of my husband. Most of which is spend sleeping. He is a hard worker, I can honestly say both us are. But when he comes home he is ready for bed, while I still have the chore's for the family to do. So it has gotten kinda hard for me , this feeling of be pulled 2 ways. Do I neglect my children or do I neglect my husband. And in the process neglect myself. <BR>I am at a lost as what to do. Like I said earlier. For 2 weeks I tried to give him everything, I spent quality time with him, just the two of us. We talked more than we had in years, but not once during that time, did he tell me he loved me, or that he thinks that we will recover from this. I have been made to feel like I have to have sex with him to keep him. I don't feel the emotion that goes with it, from either of us. I don't feel his heart is in it. The happiness that I have satisfied my H , sexually is gone.<BR>Why after so many years has this happened? I wonder if it is a mid-life crisis for him. Where I never had cause to even think he might ever be unfaithfull, now I wonder if he is getting wonderlust. He is 41 now. I am 38. Neither of us have anyone else to compare with sexually.<BR>What do I do next?<BR>Someone tell me.

UnsureWhat-2-DoNext--<P>It sounds like your husband is self-absorbed. Only interested in getting his needs met at the expense of yours. If he expects you to do all of the initiating then he's bucking his responsibility for making an effort to participate in the relationship. Someone passed along a site that might help called www.DrIrene.com, it talks a lot about love addictions, codependency and how it feels in that relationship. I would read whatever that site has to give. Then I would ask myself if his being selfish makes me feel like I've got to try harder. My husband was constantly draining my love tanks..and complaining that I wasn't initiating enough in the sexual area, but I also have four kids and there's a lot of work that goes along with four kids. Both people have to learn how to give and take equally... mutual reciprocity ...that is what real love is all about.<P>You will be in my prayers.. I know it's hard.<P>God's blessings,<BR>Ramy

Ramy,<BR>Thanks. Yes I guess my H might be a little on the selfish side. Here's the But, I have too. I have withheld just as much as he has. I am as guilty as him in some aspects. I wasn't listening to him. He tried to tell me he was lonely for 6 months now. I just didn't get it. <BR>For over 2 years now I have been medically disable to give him everything that he needed. I had so much pain that I wasn't comfortable making love. So I with drew into myself, became depressed because I felt bad all the time. I didn't talk to him, and he didn't talk to me. So we were both at fault.We both became strangers within the same walls. He has never been abusive tho. <BR>Sounds like I am taking up for him. I'm not. Because at any time he could have made me feel worthy of his love and attention if he would have tried . I just feel the need to be loved and I don't so it makes me feel unworthy of his time. So I don't bother (at least I didn't bother.) I am working on our relationship. I am not giving up. God is going to win, and Satan is going to lose.<BR>Amen.<BR>Thanks again<P>

You sound like you need a real break for yourself. you had medical problems too? I trust your husband was aware of them? Was he aware of the impact they were having on you sexually? Either because of his own lack of sensitivity or because you diddn't explain that to him?<BR>You sound a you have 'supermom" syndrome too. We are never neglecting our kids by attending to our spouse. I used to not fully believe that, the my mother warned me that the kids would turn on both of us and start giving us lectures telling us to stop it , cuddle and make up. Well guess what they did! All three of them basically sat my w and I down for a talk and told us we were hurting their ears and wanted us to stop being made. That gave me and I believe my wife more of a whack on the head than anything. You should see my oldest when I do hug my wife It makes it alot easier.

Kam,<BR>I am most definitely not a SuperMom. LOL<BR>My kids would be the first to tell me that. And yes my H was very aware of my medical problems. He supported my through them. Within 9 months of each other I had 2 major back surgeries. The last one leaving me almost paralyzed.(I was lucky) The last surgery was not a success. It has taken me almost 2yrs. to get over it tho. I tried to continue with my life as normal as possible. My husband didn't know that to stop the pain I would literally triple my med's. A was on anti-depressants, Until one day I woke up and realized where I was headed. I tried my best to never let on what was happening. It was during all this time and I think the med's too that I realized that I could no longer hide that during my early tweens I had been molested by cousins and a Uncle. Every day a new demon popped up. One day I snapped and told my husband. I couldn't stop the crying, he was very supportive. I even feel better having told him at the time. Now I wonder if that could have been a turning point in our relationship. There is so much there to analyze now, where before I didnt give it much thought. You know what I mean. <BR>When things go wrong, we analyze everything to dead. I am trying to make sense of it all and I can't . I am no longer on med's and I think clearer now. So think I do. Alot. <BR>I agree I do need some time to myself, but I don't want to be alone. I want my H there. <BR>It doesn't really bother me about the things I need from him. I really just would like to know he loves me. Thats all.<BR>Its like you said, when you first date, you go out of your way to make your date feel important, that you love them. Then once you are married and the kids come along, you get set in your ways. You start to separate, not even meaning too. Instead of being one, like God says. YOu gradually become two again. Only thing is , you still don't know it. You think things are great, until you wake up and they are gone because you made them feel lonely. YOu each made each other lonely, One not giving of time and the other not giving of affection. <BR>Now I am rambling on.....I like this forum. It has helped. We are going on a retreat in a few weeks I can't wait to see how things go. Maybe we will both learn a few things.<P>YOur sis in Christ,<BR>UnSure<P><BR>

UnsureWhat-2-DoNext--<P>I hear the exhaustion...still I think when one spouse is medically unable to respond..it takes more love on the part of the spouse who isn't ill. I can remember having my C-sections.. and never being allowed the rest time that I needed because I was expected to get up and take care of the family, let alone the newborns. And my H didn't want to wait the six weeks for sex after birth like he was instructed. So I understand the self-absorption. Clearly, it's time for some mutual depositing into the love tanks. It takes two giving, two working on caring for one another. So don't take a lot of the blame on yourself. When you are in pain, that is when your spouse needs to be giving to you.<P>Anyway, I'll pray it improves for you.<P>Blessings!<BR>Ramy

Thanks again Ramy,<BR>I guess you are right. Which of the topic is yours I would like to read about yours.<P>I guess I am getting lots of insites into what to do next. It is a big help to chat with someone.<P>Thanks for the prayers, I convet them. <P>Unsure<BR><p>[This message has been edited by UnsureWhat-2-DoNext (edited September 05, 1999).]

Unsure,<P>My thread is over at "Why Women Leave Men"...it's easy to find.<P>Take care and I'll pray!<P>Ramy

You have been terribly wounded by life! And I do hope you are getting some very real help and that your husband will always get the support he needs. <BR>It sounds like you have had a real trial with both depression and (suicidal tendencies? Overdosing on your med??? That's serious business) Plus, you've been massively abused. Perhaps, your looking for your husband to give you the sort of love you were robbed of earlier in life(?) Its not very surprising that you need your husband to not be as sexual.You really should sort this out with a counselor trained in sexual abuse survivors and/or post traumatic stress.<BR>In all frankness, isn't every marriage at root based on sex? We marry because we are sexuallly in love with someone, we hopefully also become friends but if friendship and companionship was what we really needed from marriage we could find permenant friend partners to work with us. that may sound callous but if we think about it honestly I think we'd have to admit it. That doesn't mean the sex act is the center stage but it is always a sexual relationship at root. Male and Female husband and wife. By the way the symbol of becoming one is biblically based as an ancient allusion to sex. <BR>I hope you are working with a professional counselor, Not to put down social workers but just as we need specialists for our our body parts we need specialits in mental treatment too. I have not seen a social worker yet whop has had the educational or professional training yet to equate to a Dr. in Psychotherapy. They can also aid in evaluating drug treatments, etc...Social Workers don't have that training.<BR>p.s. to analyze is to critically dissect intecllectually yes but it can also be a subtle form of self-negativity and even self abuse. We are cutting ourselfs up. Also, the reason evil cannot be understood is because it is meaningless. The whole messege behing the Cross/Resurrection of Jesus is that in Jesus evil can be redemmed meaning it can become meaningful if joined to the cross. that doesn't give the evil and meaning but gives our future a new meaning and hope.<p>[This message has been edited by KAM (edited September 04, 1999).]

Kam, <BR>You might be right, I do expect for my H to give me the LOVE that I didn't get when I was younger. But I don't confuse Love with Sex. That in fact was what got me abused as a teen. I was getting attention, it wasn't till later that I realized it wasn't love. It was just a sickness with the abuser. <P>As for desiring my H , I do that too. Very much so. I have decided that I can not fix my marriage on my own. That if I turn total controll of the marriage over to God , he will fix it for me. I am tired of fighting the problems I seemed to be faced with daily, and in conclusion it doesn't seem to be working my way.<P>For most of my adult life I have been to scared to open up in any relationship. Something I think was mainly due to guilt. I was afraid to be me. That people wouldn't like me. Well, who cares. That will be their problem now , not mine. The Lord is going to give me all the friends I need and the assurance that I need. And in the end, my marriage will be a stronger one. Already I am taking the lead to change for the better. Not for anyone but myself. Sorta like coming out of the closet. Showing people the real me. <P>On a brighter note: My H doesn't know what to do with me, I think he likes it. <P>I do know that I am not allowing conflict in my marriage again. I will talk things though, and not let problem's arise because of lack of communication between my H and me.<P>God Bless All and Have a Great Labor Day!<P>P.S. HOw does everyone get the yellow smily faces on the reply's<P>

To Whoever Reads this.<BR>I figured it out <BR>Now I can say that I am sure of something.<P>lol<BR>Till next time.<BR>God Bless All<BR>

Keep up the prayer! I need to remind myself of that one, but that's a whole different story and issue. My Jacob and the angel story (By the way ya ever noticed how that angel really won? No wonder he was left blessed in his seed )<BR>Actually, the Song of Songs is a great sex manual maybe it'd help all of us. <BR>I'm glad you figured out how to do the smiley faces. If you double click on the line "UBB Code is on" to the left. You'll see some directions for putting things in italics and in bold You can also make the smiley wink by typing a ";" instead of a ":" and you can make links to web sites and email addreses. I wish they made the directions easier for people to find though, because I have noticed a lot of people don't know how to do the website address linking.<BR>Oh well. or should i be sad ;(<BR>

Update for everyone.<P>Last night I found out that my husband had rented an apartment in the town close to us.<BR>I found this out when he called to tell me he was staying there and not coming home.<P>I went crazy, I did manage to talk him into seeing me last night. I meet him at the BK there. After about an hour he showed me where he was going to live. He didn't want me to come in but I managed to talk him into letting me use the bathroom. <P>I was very upset to see that he was well set up in his little pad. I had no ideal . For three weeks while I was working on repairing the damage to my marriage, it was leaving me. I was sick. <P>We ended up talking for 2 more hours, in which we discussed everything. We laughed , we cried, we hugged. Somewhere in there I kept my cool. I didn't go wild with wrong words. The Lord had answered my prayer. <BR>Before it was over, he told me that he was glad that I had come, glad we had talked , that he felt so much better. I did too.<P>I am getting him an appointment with the Doc next week. I do realize that alot of things that are wrong is because he is stressed and depressed. I agreed to give him the time he needed to find himself. and he agreed to stay in our lifes and just not leave us.<P>I am going to be there for him. I think he knows that now. It is something that he wasn't sure about 3 weeks ago. He knows that I love him, and that what I had tried to do for the last 3 weeks was start over. Forget the past, He thought that I was doing it only to keep him and that i wasn't sincere. He knows now that I was. That I got the message and that I am going to do my best to save our marriage. <P>Its late, God Bless.<P>Am I doing the right thing?<P>Unsure<BR>

Unsure.....<P><BR>What else can you do, but give him time??<P>I know it's hard on you...I didn't read some of your string til today. I'd like to talk to you more directly on some things...you can email me at littlefish..if you want and I'll forward you my main email address. There are issues that I'd like to discuss with you, but not publicly...so I'll look forward to your email!<P>God's blessings!<BR>Ramy

Update<P>I would like to post an update for all the ppl. that may be interested. <P>My husband asked if he could come home. <BR>And of coarse I let him. He has gone to the doctor and got medicine for the depression and for the stress. They put him on Paxil. I don't know much about it. But if it is going to help him then, I am all for it.<P>He seems to be doing better, and we are doing lots of hugging and just holding each other. Spending quality time to together talking about our feeling, and just plain old getting to know each other again.<P>We still have the Marriage enrichment coarse in Oct. Looking forward to being alone with him and maybe learning more about how to make out in this marriage that we let fall apart. <P>I would like to thank everyone for the input.<BR>Coming here , while he was gone , helped me lots. <P>May God Bless each of you.<P>Gwen<BR>

That's great news. As for the Paxil, tryust in the doctor but as always with anti-depresents or any medicine keep an eye out for side effects. When I had it it played havoc with my sex drive and it also has a very common reaction of causing delayed ejaculation (not to mention a slight change in consistency-sorry abour being so graphic), When I say delayed I don't mean a minute or so longer but possibly considerably longer. So please be patient with him in that area. It's a bit frustrating plus an another side effect is increased firmness erction wise. now that's a plus, but you need to spend more time with him foreplay wise. That could be a real switch in routine for the two of you.<BR>Good Luck!!! Oh and if he gets a little irritabble just let him have his space. It could be the medication helping his body resort his emoptions. He doesn't necessarily need to talk it all out with ya ;-)<BR>

Kam,<BR>Thanks. He is already seeing the effects of the medicine on his sex drive.. It is as you described .<BR>I will continue to be patient with him, for I know it is not something he can help. I definitely never could call him a minute man before, so it is no biggie for a hour long one. Only problem is working on my over stimalation, which at this moment is causing him more problems. <BR>I am going to websearch Paxil.<BR>Which by the way seems to be starting to help him. We moved all his stuff home last night.<BR>He promises the next time he gets angry with me he is going to choke me , so he doesn't have to go through all of this moving stuff again. He said it took him 10 min. to move out and 2 hours to move back in. I told him next time not to go to Wal-Mart and buy it out. ( he purchased things that he would need for the long haul)<BR>He is giving us a chance this time and that is all that counts.<BR>Sorry for the book.<BR>

Give the paxil some time. The side effects do deminish some as his body adjusts. He may need a smaller dose for now. Then build up to a larger one.<BR>Re: keeping you stimulated how about start then stop. Remember women can climax many more times than men. <BR>Oral helps too. May help on his side too for increasing it all. ;-)<BR>Then again, if you cancure the underlying problems your sex life in the end will be better and a rough sex life for atime will be better. Just don't stop the sex find news ways not so focused on climaxiaing and orgasms but still way above affection. Hmm what do teenagers do so they don't get into trouble ;-) And that gor pretty hot!