Since I have no sex, intimacy, etc. in my marriage of 5 years and I know that many of you have had infidelities, my question goes out to you: Would it be so bad to have an affair without the H knowing? I have heard that sometimes it helps in a marriage. The other person can give you what your husband can't. I don't know because I never had one. I am not saying that I will have one BUT I do wonder about it quite often (I don't know if that's a sign). Is it that I am so unhappy that I may stray or just thinking about it. Is thinking about a sign that I will probably have one? What are some of your thoughts that went through your head just before you had an affair? Did you plan on it or did it just happen? did you wake up one day and say, I just need someone to pay attention to me, so I will flirt with this person and see what happens, knowing that you wanted an affair? Just wondering what your take is on that. Thanks

Katya:<P>Although I sympathize with your lack of sex and affection in your marriage. I suffer some of the same (although we're working on it)---it's been over 2 1/2 years since my wife made love to me, and she rarely initiates intimate behavior the way I'd want it...<P>And while I type this, I have an 8 month-old sitting on my lap. That's right, an affair.<P>I suppose that if you had an affair and your husband never found out, you would only do two things. If you have any moral character, you would suffer strongly. Your husband would suffer some, because it's unlikely that you'll be meeting his needs during this time---but we'll say that he's not going to notice. So you'll feel great (the high of an affair) for a while, but then sink to the depths when it's over.<P>My wife had an affair. I suffered, dealing with her affair while we lived together. Seeing it tear my world apart. Seeing the effect on our two children. I eventually separated from her---never would I have believed that I could leave the woman I love and the children I adore. You can't imagine that pain. I eventually moved back when she became pregnant by the OM...<P>And for as tough as my pain was, it's NOTHING compared to what my wife has suffered. And not because I've punished her. It's because an affair is the most thoughtless, cruel, evil, stupid, ignorant thing you can do. And very few affairs start as yours start (with someone actually "planning" it).<P>Get into counseling with Steve Harley here at Marriagebuilders (888-639-1639). He'll teach you the skills you need to make your marriage great. I'm sure you think that it's your husband that needs the lesson; but it's not only him. You need the help too. I got help from Steve immediately after discovering my wife's affair. He's great---and my wife says that now it's like living with a new man. You can do the same---and you really should, because if you don't learn these MarriageBuilder relationship skills, any relationship you're going to have will fail. You have an opportunity to make your current marriage wonderful. Do it.

THanks K, for your reply. I would probably feel very guilty after it was over because, again, I am not the type to have an affair. Funny thing is, my H and I went out to dinner to tonight, we were both cold to each other but had an o.k. time. Anyway, I posed the question to him on what would he do if he found out I was having an affair. He told me he would probably have several emotions running through him head. He said he would walk out of the house and come back and talk to me and find out why. He said for me to have done that would mean that he is not doing something right. So, he would have to change things to make it right. O.k. so, we haven't had sex for 2 years, no affection, no intimacy, yet, he won't do a damn thing to change anything. So, I guess to change things, I would have to have an affair??? Why is that? Why is it that when partners keep trying and trying to tell their spouses what the problem is, and when they finally decide to have an affair, the spouses wake up and say, Oh, I will try to fix what I have caused my partner to do? I guess I am so frustrated because we went out to dinner and came back and I gave him a passionate kiss for awhile and he pushed me away, saying, I guess it's time for you to get on the computer (not sarcastically but pleasantly). Is that the answer to wake my H up, is for me to have an affair? That is what he basically told me. Because up until now, he just hasn't been listening to me or paying attention to me. I know that I am just really frustrated and tired and really feel like crying again because I want soooooo much to be loved and needed and made love to. God, do I miss being really loved.

Katya,<BR>I doubt having an affair would help you at all. Actually, there was something very telling in your discussion with your husband. When he asked wondered what he might have done wrong that would cause the affair. You never mention that you said anything about not having sex, affection or intimacy for years!!<BR>What's also odd is your depiction of your husbands matter of factness about all of this. Is he oblivious to the lack of sex in your marriage?? This is weird. <BR>It makes me wonder if your husband is having a very active dream life in which you two are sexual and he's lost touch with reality. If your a very heavy sleeper, he's having intercourse with you in your sleep (and hey maybe you even respond ) And so he doesn't realize that you are unaware of your active sex life? Or (3) he's gay (4) he's a plant or sense I finished watching X-files maybe he's an alien or something. <BR>As an aside, your comment that your aren't the kind of person who would have an affair...hmmm are you sure it isn't just fear or total lack of opportunity? Personally, I can't speak with that kind of certainty for myself. I know in my heart that if my wife doesn't start responding and developing a real interest in sex soon, I'm a walking timebomb. If that beach babe ever comes charging into my house and strips and says take me...I doubt I could say no Thank God that doesn't happen all too often in my part of the world?

Dear Kam:<BR>Your reply was funny, well, at least part of it. Hope you are feeling better. That is terrible to be stuck in bed. Well at least you have the computer! In asking my H that question if I had an affair, I did not have to ask or say anything about not having any sex, affection, intimacy only because he knows that and it's brought up very often from me and at times from him. So, he is VERY aware of our situation. I even brought it up to the therapist two weeks ago in his presence. So, for him to even ask why I would, is absurd to me. By the way, he's not having sex with me because I am a light sleeper. Although maybe he is having sex with someone else in his sleep. Could be. As far as him being a plant. Maybe that too. More like a cactus. Now, if he was an alien, I think probably I could get more out of an alien than I could him. I guess you've heard of those aliens visiting humans and having sex with them in their space ship? Gay? Nah, not at all. But, he does attract them because he has a model face - very good looking.<BR>I read your comment about me having an affair. Well, in my past, before my husband, I have had boyfriends who have cheated on me. I turned around and cheated on them and then broke up with them. So, I guess maybe yu are right. Maybe in the right situation, because I am getting really fed up with mine, that I just might go ahead and have one. But, I don't go looking and never have been in one. I sure do think about it, because I have had men approach me to go out because they know I have an unhappy marriage. I told them I couldn't do that. Well, we can be friends they say. I have told one, we can be friends and yes, we can go out around town one day for a bite to eat. Don't know if I am setting myself up, probably. I made it clear to him that we could never go any further thatn just being friends. I would have to probably agree with you and maybe it is fear. Lack of opportunity ...no. but fear yes. I don't know what I fear. But I fear. I guess I am like you, a walking timebomb, but too scared. I should have not posted that I would never have one, it's just that I'm not the type of likely have one. But....I just don't know anymore on what to do in my marriage because I have tried everything. I just put up another post about last night because I just hurt again. <BR>As far as the housework goes.... Yes, I understand that not all men are handy, but, he doesn't even want to try. Yes, I can wait awile, but, I can't wait months for him to fix the gate on the fence so my children don't run out, or hammer some nails that are sticking out of the sandbox so the kids don't get hurt, or put up curtain rods so we can have curtains in the windows, or put up wallpaper because we are having a big housewarming party. If, I hired someone to do all this, would be expensive. Well, I bought myself a books on repairs. That is not his interest at all, and has no desire to learn. He picked the book up and told me that. O.K., I already knew that. So, somethings, I can wait, but, other things I can't. <BR>

Katya,<P>A couple of things in your post that I can relate to. Firstly, like you, I never considered myself the type to have an affair. I am a good person, a model citizen, and have always been extremely loyal, honest, trustworthy and dependable. Guess what? I had an affair. That's right, can't deny it. I won't go into all the sordid details. You can do a search on my name if you like. I have posted a lot on the infidelity forum.<P>Anyway, my choosing to have an affair was many years in the making. I didn't wake up one day and decide, "hmm, I think I'll have an affair with my coffee this morning!" No, it was a gradual process involving years of unmet needs, misunderstandings, built up resentments, and deteriorating communication. My H is a classic conflict avoider, and any deep discussions with him or my sharing any disatisfactions always led to him erupting in a nasty angry outburst. Our communication completely shut down as a result.<P>During the years prior to my having an affair, my H and I were having sex an average of maybe once every 6-8 months. Someone once told me that since sex is, in essence, a form of communication and definitely an expression of intimacy, a couple's lack of it probably signifies serious problems in the relationship. In my heart I knew we were in serious trouble, but I just didn't see a way to make him understand. I felt all alone and felt like I just had to accept things as is.. I couldn't. I needed more. So, I took a cheap imitation: an affair.<P>But that's not the worse part. While I was very deep into my own affair, I discovered my H had an affair himself the year before. I was completely devastated by how sordid and ugly my life had become.<P>For the past two years my H and I have been in recovery, rebuilding our marriage and rekindling our love and relationship. Things are going exceptionally well. We are closer than ever before. But wait, before you think that we have our mutual affairs to thank for our new life, not so fast. The affairs are our deepest regrets. We both are so sad that we didn't grab onto each other and recommit to rebuilding without having had to go through all the ugliness. And trust me, there has been LOTS of ugliness. Many harsh words spoken in anger, many glass objects broken, and way too many tears shed. It has been the hardest thing either of us has ever had to overcome.<P>The moral to the story: if there is any way, shape or form that you can let your H know how dangerously close you are to doing something as destructive as an affair, DO SO ASAP! Don't wait for the bottom to drop out from under you and don't be a sitting duck. Arm yourself with all the great information on this site and elsewhere on rebuilding your marriage. Do all that you can, and accept nothing less.<P>An affair is just not worth it. Trust me.<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Katya,<BR>A cactus eh?? Ouch! Maybe he's more like coral acts more like a rock that never changes. Its amazing that he's so oblivious to you about all of this. My wife doesn't bring it up herself either, but I'm sure she's scared that I will stray. Which leaves me puzzled as to why she is so slow. I wonder if she so expects me to stray that she's just assumed its a part of marriage.<BR>I wonder if your husband wants you to stray, has he had or having one do you think? What a way to get free of guilt. Two wrongs.<BR>As for your male friends. Sounds like news of your potential availablity is already out there. Be careful of us men we always want to be friends. Its our subtle way of seduction. <BR>Thanks for your concern, I'm starting to feel better. Actually, the computer time has been down. Yes, I do other things than this forum I'm still hurting whenever I breath and very winded and of course I'm now sick of resting Ugh!!! Still I'm also wondering how I even got sick in the first place and I have a feeling this is going to lead to a lot of medical tests. Sigh!<BR>Oh and do be careful of the ET's they tend to prefer cold metal probes and steal the memory afterward So I doubt you'd remember it. Unless, it was someone like Starman ;remember that movie? Boy talk about leaving a handful of trouble when he left her pregnant. <BR>I wouldn't advise leaving anything dangerous unfixed either. Oh well. We already know you h has trouble screwing so why should this area be a surprise Ouch that was bad see I'm still ill <p>[This message has been edited by KAM (edited September 07, 1999).]

Dear Kam:<BR>Perhaps your wife is proceeding with caution? Maybe she is afraid not to step backwards in your marriage and trying to feel you out (which may take awhile)? You know, I really do think that my H wouldn't even really care if I did stray. Sad as it seems, I just don't think so. When I do mention someone else in a sexual way (to see what kind of response he gets), it's basically no big deal. He even said to me last week, Well, I don't know if your having an affair or not. He said it as if we were having a conversation about what to eat for dinner. He brought that up because I was discussing about affairs with him. It's really hurtful when you think or know that your spouse just really doesn't seem to care what you do. Even a bit of jealousy would make me feel good as if he does care (even though I hate jealousy) but I'll even take that right now. I'll even take Starman (yes, I saw that movie and loved it). And I guess a probe here or there from an alien would be a welcome also since I am not getting any probing now. OHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Talk to you later!!

I asked Scully about those alien probes first <BR>Send an e-mail Daodeching@excite.com sometime. I may know an alien or two <BR>

KAM:<P>Interesting E-mail addresss...