I can't sleep due to crying. I was reading something CJACK wrote about betrayal and physical abuse earlier and it really got to me. I know in the long run this will be a good thing. Kind of part of healing, but right now I am hurting.<p>I want to talk about the times early in my marriage when my husband abused me. I think I need to get this out in the open and deal with.<p>I am so ashamed though. Ashamed mainly for staying afterward.<p>First one day because he was jealous when he thought I had looked at a guy, when we got home he threw a glass at me and then told me to clean up the broken pieces. I am very stubborn, I think I would rather have died than pick up the glass. Anyway he threw me down on the floor and smeared my face in the glass, screaming at me to clean it up. I didn't get cut on my face but inside it tore me up.<p>Next, he wanted sex a lot when we were married. A lot of times in the middle of the night. Once at 2:00 in the morning he woke me up. I still remember my words and his. I said in a whiney, grumpy voice, "H why do you have to want it at 2:00 in the morning? You know I have to be at work early." I moved away from him, he grabbed me and with his hand fisted, he slapped me with the back of his hand, busting my lip and called me a *****, then he grabbed my wrist put them above my head and he ripped my underwear off and had sex with me anyway. I can't say the word. <p>I was so young, I thought, I should have not said no, he was my husband, I had no right to tell him no.<p>The next day he was so sorry. He said he would spend the rest of his life making it up to me. We went to counseling for awhile. After this, most of the physical abuse stopped for the most part. Years went by and when he stopped drinking most of the verbal abuse stopped also. <p>
I hid everything deep inside of me. I knew it was there but I hid it. I didn't tell a soul except counselors. I loved him and I forgave him for this. We became good friends. We didn't have to bad of a marriage other than he put all the domestic responsibilities on me and didn't expect to do anything when he got home. He showed his anger at times but he controlled it pretty well. Then years later just as I started feeling safe, he did it again. He went into a rage and hit me over and over. Everything he did the first year of our marriage came flooding back with a vengence. I feel so ashamed for staying and so stupid! Most of the time he's normal. He's laid back, cool and people would think he's the easiest guy in the world to get a long with. When I started dating him, he had a room mate that warned me about him. I ignored it. I saw his anger early in our relationship. Why did I stay? Why did I marry this guy? I am so angry with myself right now.<p>I know you guys probably think I am one screwed up person. Incredibly through everything I am a pretty together person. Counselor say I have good coping skills. I do know I have never once other than the time he had sex without my permission, blamed myself for any of the times he got abusive. I knew this was his problem not mine.
I think the confidence I had with this helped me. Also, I think I am such a strong willed person, I don't let things like this control me. I think, too, I am just cheerful by nature and have a tendency to just put the bad things out of my mind and forget about them. Just kind of hide them because I don't want to dwell on things or be miserable. I want to be happy.<p>Well, I may wake up tomorrow and delete this thread. I am crying so much I could barely type it. I am thinking it may be too much for me to tell people all this. I've decided to try though because I need to resolve this in my mind.<p>Thanks for listening.<p>ANNA

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>Hon, I know EXACTLY how you feel, and you know I do. When I write down or say out loud what my H has done to me, I feel so stupid and weak and ashamed of myself that I didn't have the self-respect to say "Hey, I won't let you treat me that way!" But, the fact of the matter is, I didn't. <p>Like you, at first I was young and foolish and in love. I was actually kind of playing house and pretending to live the good wife and good mommy role. I did the best I could, but I didn't know anything then. Neither did you. We were young. We thought that wives were obedient to their husbands and never said no. What kind of wife says no?? That's not respecting that he's the head of the household--right? Isn't that kind of what you thought?<p>And it is the WORST when they seem so darn lovable and likeable and charming to everyone in public, but in private they are so hateful and harmful. I remember the ladies at work telling me I had a "real winner" and "keep him" because he brought a rose to work for me. Of course, they didn't know that he brought the rose because he had yelled at me so viciously the night before that he was like a pit bull. That KILLED me. And I sat there quietly keeping his secret!!! Why did't I speak up and tell someone?? Why wouldn't anyone believe me when I did??<p>You are NOT a screwed up person. Heck no. Either that or maybe we are in the looney bin together! Anyway, you are like I was...hopeful and optimistic. Pretty low self-esteem. Able to cope and not get too resentful. Strong and a bit stubborn. Gosh, no, Anna, these traits SAVED YOU. Be thankful for these traits, for they helped you survive when you needed them. You have just reached the same stage I am reaching literally as we speak. We are both saying, "I can not keep this a secret anymore. Keeping the secret hurts worse than having someone know and feeling ashamed." You need to tell someone. You need to talk and let it all out--in all the gorey details you feel necessary--and not hold it back any longer. <p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<p>
CJ

It is very late, but since I had something to do with this thread, I feel that I'd better reply...<p>First off, you have NOTHING to be ashamed of. Again, your H fits the classic abuser profile: Telling you "it will never happen again," apologizing, then revealing his anger in measured stages to keep you in check...does this sound familiar?<p>I've come to look at abusive relationships as a kind of "hostage situation." If you make a break for it, you could wind up worse off, so you stay. Yet why would you blame yourself, rather than your captor? <p>On a couple of occasions, I've had the priveledge of speaking with Sen. John McCain. This guy spent 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton. I've never heard him say "gee, if I'd only been a better POW, they would've treated me better..."<p>
The point is: Don't be angry with yourself for what other people have done to you.<p>To say that you have "good coping skills" is an understatement. You have a strength that most people could only hope for.

Anna2K,<p>Thank you for your honest and sensitive posting. I can only imagine your pain. My W abused me too, but I always felt that at least my life was safe, because I'm a lot bigger and stronger than she and if I needed to, I could protect myself. I'm sure it is absolutely terrifying when you are the weaker party and subjected to this kind of thing.<p>Like the others said, it is not your fault. You have nothing to be ashamed of.<p>-AD

Anna -

((((((((((((((( Anna))))))))))))))<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I've decided to try though because I need to resolve this in my mind.<hr></blockquote><p> I think that what you've chosen to say is a step to healing and forgiving yourself. To me, you should not be ashamed of ANYTHING. Please. <p> Sigh - Y'know, some people are such jerks, they defy description. ( a small flame)<p>
Dan<p>[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>

I don't think you will regret telling anna, we (humans) like to share, and we do....joy, happiness, love.....we don't share pain enough and that allows it to fester, and debilitate. I suspect your telling now is a measure of your growth and feeling safer, and that is a good thing, a healthy sign of healing. There will be more steps, but you are firmly on the right path, and you will be ok. I don't know why we have abuse, it is rampant througout our species, I suppose it arises out of control issues. We all need to feel secure, so we try to order our lives, and the people in them...but for many it goes too far, crosses that line of healthy interaction, the line of respect and caring, the line of fair give and take.....I think that is why abusers are so often well thought of..... by people they have no direct control over....but I think they are contolling, only using a different tool, trying to appear personable, and well-liked, and thereby get what they want. I really don't think they are any different, just playing a different part, and using everybody for something, those folks for admiration.....ya know? <p>Fortuneately as the psychology of abuse becomes better known, and help more readily available, and peer pressure holds them accountable, we can avoid these kinds of relationships, and free their prisioners. You are far from alone, I suspect 30-40% of marriages are abusive. I also suspect yours would have experienced more direct abuse had you fought back more, but you adjusted to his control, so there was no reason to "abuse" you. Don't beat yourself up over why you lived like this, you were surviving/living as best you could, now take the time to unravel it all, get it out of your system, and make the changes in you so as to never go there again. One of the hardest things people have to do, is finally stop the denial, look at their marriage for what it really is, and start changing it. To admit this level of failure is very very hard, to accept the risk of abusive response, and the risk of starting over just makes it even harder. But it is interesting, I see it over and over, when people finally start looking at the truth of an abusive relationship, they start realizing all the things they made excuses for, or ignored, they realize they never really had a marriage, it was all a picture, not real. And they realize the hardest thing at all, that there was no love. The relationship was based on fear and control, it was not based on nurturing and intimacy. <p>You were not loved (IMO)cause people do not abuse those they love, it is unlikely your H will love anyone cause he is incapable of it. You tried to love, but you can't if the circle is not completed back, so you loved the picture, and played the role. One day you will find someone who is worthy, and will love you right anna, but to do so, you will have to be vulnerable, that is why it is good for you to work this through, to know it was not about you, nothing you could do would have made any difference, it was about him. And you do not want his legacy to interfere with your future relationships... so keep up the work.<p>cjack.....I was gonna also mention the pow comparison, but ya beat me to it. There is very much the hostage mentality (stockholm syndrome and all that) to abusive marriages. And the techniques are very much like brainwashing.. tearing down the self-worth, and rebuilding it as a dependentcy on the abuser. The scarey part is people identify abuse as overtly aggressive or violent..... so many don't realize they are in fact victims of an abusive marriage because the abuser was more subtle in their techniques or the victim more malleable). IMO anyone in a marriage where they generally feel unbalanced, emotionally unsafe, lonely, lot of anger, walking on eggshells, and so forth... is probably in an abusive situation of some kind. This is the pathology often of the extreme violence you see when someone "leaves".... the heretofore "mild" abuser often goes ballistic and wreaks a lot of damage. I think even people who say their (abusive) spouse is not so bad usually, know deep down this is a real fear, and in part that also keeps em from leaveing. The whole subject just incenses me, that people manipulate others this way, to bind them to them. I basically hate controllers.

Anna, no words for you but {{{{{{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}} hugs to you!<p>Don't be ashamed of your words, be proud that you can share and face reality!<p>I have never been abused, but I am really familiar with denying reality, and how hard it is to see things as they really are when you wish they were different.<p>I think you are really handling things well! It's okay to look back and question and cry.

Good morning,<p>Thanks for all your comments. I know some where in this pain it is helping. I do feel like I have been dying inside and now I am finally starting to grow again.<p>Some of you will remember me talking about sleep and how since the separation, I would wake up several times in the night and feel like my stbx was in the house lurking and going through personal things. I didn't realize get the connection until last night. My sleep habits became worse when I first came on MB. I thought this was my stbx that was in the house even though I never saw a face. Last night it happened again. I woke up several times, startled and feeling as if someone was going through my personal things. I am never frightened by this person, I just have to go through the house to assure myself no one is there and then I go back to sleep. Last night when this happened, a light went off. I figured out something important. This wasn't my husband, this was when I told personal things on MB. The dream and the feeling of panic that someone is in the house and reading things I've written...It all makes sense. The house was not a house but me exposing my life, I was worried about telling people these personal things I've kept inside so long. <p>Faithful wife,<p>Thanks for your comments and the cyber hugs and kind words. We are both strong people and whether your husband gets the picture and changes and I find someone who knows what true love really means, we are both survivors.<p>CJack,<p>Everything you said on your original post about never defining physical abuse as betrayal is so true. I had never defined it that way either until through post when someone suggested on my signature I put "husband was an abuser", then it occurred to me he "husband was a betrayer". Physical abuse coming from someone you love is such a betrayal. What an ultimate way to betray trust? <p>I think one of the hardest things to get over in spouse abuse is trust. I also thought alot about the feelings my husband should be my protector, so what does a person do when your protector is the one you need protecting from?<p>POW is a good comparison also. Once early in our marriage, I left my husband. This was after those two major abuses occurred. I got an apartment and he did become a stalker. He did things like beat on my door in the middle of the night, waking up me and my neighbors and tampering with my car so it wouldn't start for work the next day. Sometimes I felt living with him was easier than living without him.<p>I also knew he never felt love in his life and thought I could give him love. He was not raised by his mother and his father abandoned him. In counseling he said several times the need for control was a feeling some day he would be abandoned by me too. I knew, too, he was afraid to give me his total love because if he did and I left, then it would confirm his feelings that he was never loved by anyone.<p>I think due to being frightened as a little boy by his grandfathers rages, he had a tendency to have a hyper-vigilent personality. Someone on MB used this term one day and even though I knew he was this way a lot, I never put the term to his personality until that day. Often, when he feels threatened he usually snaps and feels he must protect himself. I've seen him do this with friends and with me. He becomes somewhat obsessed and over reacts to feelings he must protect himself, whether it is protecting his feelings or his physical safety.<p>The sad thing is, he did do a lot of changing and growing during our marriage. He still had control issues and treated me badly at times, but we had a lot of times of talking as friends and I saw a different person than when we were first married, especially after he stopped drinking. I think he was ashamed too of what he did and he tried hard to forget the things he did. He was very much an alcoholic. He told me a few times, he doesn't even remember most of the life he had during the alcohol days. He says after a few weeks of drying out, he woke up one day, looked at me and everything in his life and just thought, "What happened and who is this person I married?"<p>Anyway, I think you are right about the POW, I always worried if I left he would go off the deep end and my life would become a nightmare. I think the last three years, maybe unintentionally, but I literally backed off of all emotion from him, I showed him basically no love or affection. I think my mind knew exactly what I was doing when I changed my behavior towards him, I hoped he would eventually not want me anymore so the threat of leaving him would go away. I think overall I did accomplish this. He is the one who filed for divorce, this was an incredible milestone for me.<p>AD,<p>It is so tough on men who go through physical abuse. It is just as much a betrayal. Also because you were such a "MAN" you never fought her back. It is not right for a man or woman to hit another person especially someone they are suppose to love.<p>FM,<p>Thanks and you are right about this being a step towards healing. Although, I hate timing. This morning I felt as if a truck ran over me. I knew I had to go through this but I thought, "I have too many things to do today to be in such an emotional state. Why couldn't I have picked a Friday when I have the full weekend to recover?" Like I actually had a choice. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>SNL,<p>Thanks for all the wonderful words. I know you witnessed abuse so these were words of wisdom in the things you said. Although, on your words regarding people abusing those they are close to do not love them. Maybe I'm naive but I think people who have problems or make mistakes can and do abuse those they love. Take for instance in a heated argument when verbal abuse is used. Everyone in here has done it at one time or another, usually trying to get our point across in a wrong way. It hurts the other person deeply but they still loved that person. However, I do think my husband never learned the right way to love and show love. I also think he thought loving was all about him getting what he wanted. His was full of self ambition. His anger and temper was a lot of what he knew growing up. It is a viscious cycle. However it does not excuse anything he did. To me, he could and can control it. After all the last time he his me over and over, he did it in a way where there wouldn't be bruises. He only hit me in the head. If he can consciously be aware of this, he could consciously stop himself too.<p>A friend sent me a link called, "Interview with God" It was in awe as I watched the short presentation. It starts out a person has a dream they had an interview with God. One thing God said when asked what he would want children to learn is, "To learn it can only take a few seconds to open profound wounds in those they love but it can takes many years to heal those wounds." How true!<p>Well, again thanks everyone. This is by far my most vulnerable thread yet. I am hoping their won't be any more major than this one was!<p>Take care,<p>ANNA<p>[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cjack:
On a couple of occasions, I've had the priveledge of speaking with Sen. John McCain. This guy spent 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton. I've never heard him say "gee, if I'd only been a better POW, they would've treated me better..."
<hr></blockquote><p>Thank you cjack! This is something I need to hear, and so does Anna. <p>{{{{{{{Anna}}}}}}}}}}}
Please don't delete your words. You are brave to reveal something so hurtful, and your H does not deserve the privilege of silence surrounding his bad deeds. <p>I travel to Houston on occasion. I hope we can meet and cry into a Starbucks together. (unless you're the one who has a bad reaction to coffee, then we could do something else).

I meant a pattern abuser anna doesn't love, can't love. They come in all flavors (from the overtly aggressive..usually men...to the ones who me it clear you will never quite measure up..often women, but could be either gender), the commonality is life is about them (they rarely focus on you and what you need, and even the rare time they do, is usally not sincere, just pretend so they look good), and the rest of us make excuses, sort of like it sounds you might of, re his childhood etc. They just don't know how to love, they are doing he best they can, if only we are more patient, understanding, work with they..ARRRGGGGG, nada, never happen, it will always be about them. <p>The thing is all adults are responsible for their behaviour, makes no difference how rotten your childhood was...YOU decide how to act....and why is it people from absolutely horrible childhoods grow up in to loving, productive, dependable, gentle people? Your H had choices, and he knows what they were, and he chose what worked for him...that is the bottom line, and it is why an abuser should never be cut any slack at all, not a smidgen... it just validates them. I think you picked a good strategy, it is far better (from a survival standpoint) for an abuser to leave you, then you leave them. Unfortuneately many abusers won't leave, thankfully yours did.<p>Yeah, we all crab at each other, and most can use a class or two in anger management, conflict resolution, and such....I don't think of that as abuse, cause it is not intended to control you in hurtful ways. But if a pattern of even this continues, it is still abuse. Some folks are maybe not abusive, just angerholics

(((((((((((ANNA))))))))))))<p>You have permission to grieve that this happened to you. And to tell it to others may help ease your pain.<p>Last spring I decided it was time to find a counselor who had strength in sexual abuse counseling. I had something I really needed to deal with. Well, a few months into our counseling, she suggests that I consider EMDR (eye movement desensitization reprogramming) which I had heard of but didn't know a lot about. I did some reading about the subject and talked to a friend who had used it to deal with childhood sexual abuse and a gunpoint mugging incident. My friend recommeded it as it had really helped her with both issues.<p>So my counselor, who is a certified EMDR therapist, and I have done this twice. The most recent time was to deal with the date rape I had endured. And it was very interesting. It was no fun seeing the event take place and feeling the panic but it was wonderful to find peace. To talk about the negative beliefs about myself that I had harbored all these years. To replace those with postive statements. And to feel the pain that I have lived with dissipate.<p>This might not be something that you want to pursue but I can speak from experience that I have found it healing as has a dear friend.

Married 2 alcoholic and lonesome heart, Thanks for posting and the support. Also, lonesome heart I think it would be great to get together. Email me if you get a chance and we will see what we can come up with.<p>snl, Well, I do know there are people just like the ones you described. I think I have trouble with believing it with him because then I would have to say he doesn't love our children. I see the love he has for them. He really tries hard to be a good dad since he never was one. <p>Thanks for all your kind words and a lot of what you said was on right on target.<p>(((((((((((Cinderella))))))))))) I am so glad you found some peace within you for the betrayal you felt. When you go out with a guy, there is so much trust there and then they break your trust. This can cause so many psychological problems. I am glad you saw you needed some extra counseling. I am going to take you up on your suggestion and look in to EMDR for me. I think it may help me with a few things I am struggling with. Thanks girl. Whoopsie or should I say "Thanks Princess".<p>
Thanks again all for the advice and all the hugs!<p>ANNA

Anna,<p>I know how hard this was for you to post..
I understand the pain and betrayal that you feel inside..and you are just learning that NONE OF IT was YOUR FAULT!!! <p>But, I also know how hard that is to comprehend..
"IT wasn't MY FAULT!!" Well, how can I blame this
person who I loved so much?? Was I wrong to trust them?? So you doubt yourself..and your own ability to trust your own judgement about people..those are ALL normal feelings in the healing process..<p>We tend to think (especially having come from abusive backgrounds, be it our parents abused us, or we seen our parents abuse each other, and STAY)
that it is normal..when in reality it shouldn't be..but, having read your posts..I know that is what you learned as a child, stay and take it, it's NOT THAT BAD!! IT Could be worse, at least I don't have bruises all over my face..I don't have any broken bones..so it's NOT abuse..what a lie we tell ourselves..<p>I think one of the biggest and most difficult things we need to face is that what they did was
a crime..against us..but, how can we see this person we love and care about as a criminal? <p>Had you been in a restuarant and seen another man do what your husband did to you at home..throw a glass and break it and then drag his wife through the glass, you would have been outraged!!! Just as any of us would have been..The only differences it was you..and it was in your home..not in public..so as you continue to heal you will realize that it's okay to be ANGRY that he did this..and you will get angry at yourself for staying and taking it..and question.."why did I stay?" that's normal..<p>Just as you will ask yourself..Why did your mom stay?? You hated what you seen happening to her..but she stayed..but maybe you should ask her..WHY?? she may think that she stayed because she loved him..but I bet if she really looks at herself honestly...she stayed out of fear..fear of raising you kids alone, fear of what he might do
if she left..<p>I know thats why my mom stayed..thats why my grandmother stayed..thats why my great grandmother stayed..they stayed 1. because they didn't they had anywhere else to go..2. you didn't just leave someone who provided finacially..when you didn't have the skills to provide a home for your children..and many other reasons..you stay for the kids..and because you have no self-respect because it's been verbally or physically beaten out of you..<p>You'll also be angry at your dad as you grow in your healing..and that too is normal..because you need to get those deep internal wounds healed..and the only way to do that is to admit it was WRONG!! <p>I'd suggest you write your mom and dad letters get that anger out write down everything they did that was abusive to you, and to each other..and as you do you can place the responsibility on them..and also begin to take the responibility for your own actions..and reactions..once you learn what you weren't responsible for it will be easier to see what you were responsible for..and seek forgiveness for those things..<p>God doesn't want you to take responsibility for sins that aren't yours..only those that are yours..and the others need to learn what they were
responsible for..and then the healing in your family can begin..not just inside you..but in others as well..they will also be angry..angry at you because you are making them responsible..and they will try and fight you on it..because they don't want to face their own sins..and they will try to continue to blame you..and make you responsible for their actions..and will try to drag you back into believing that and it's a struggle inside yourself..from things you've always believed and things you now believe..<p>You said something in your post about it feeling like a death, that is EXACTLY what it is..a death..I know that you are Christian...so look at what the bible says about the old and new creation in Christ..the old and new nature of man..your dying to old beliefs that you have always held..the old sinful nature..and your gaining new beliefs..the new nature in Christ..the new creation..<p>I believe this is why the final death as a
Christian is so peaceful..they have already died to the old life..the sinful nature has been faced and confessed and dealt with in this life..which is what you and I, and so many others here are doing..dying to the old system of beliefs..and gaining God's beliefs..learning His thoughts about us..and becoming new creations in Him..

Anna- What an ultimate way to betray trust? <p>TR- This is what all abusers do..they build the trust..then destroy it..by tearing you down in order to make themselves "feel" better<p>Anna-I think one of the hardest things to get over in spouse abuse is trust. I also thought alot about the feelings my husband should be my protector, so what does a person do when your protector is the one you need protecting from?<p>TR- No, the hardest thing to get over is not the trust..but, in gaining the trust that they WON'T do it again..yes, he should have protected you..
and he didn't..he was wrong..<p>
Anna-I also knew he never felt love in his life and thought I could give him love. He was not raised by his mother and his father abandoned him. In counseling he said several times the need for control was a feeling some day he would be abandoned by me too. I knew, too, he was afraid to give me his total love because if he did and I left, then it would confirm his feelings that he was never loved by anyone.<p>TR- And it sounds like you, did what I did..what we learned as children..took on responsibility for his feelings..he projected those feelings of never being loved..and made them your responsibility to deal with..and being the caring, loving people pleaser you are..you gladly took on responsibility
of those feelings..you'd rather be hurt and hurt than allow him to feel his own feelings of hurt..after all thats what you have always seen the "wife" do..and you learned..to suffer for everyone else..at the expense of your own soul and mental well being..and not only that he wasn't loved..but thinks he's unlovable..everyone I love abandons me..so I must be unlovable..and your leaving just confirms that in his mind..<p>Anna-I think due to being frightened as a little boy by his grandfathers rages, he had a tendency to have a hyper-vigilent personality. Someone on MB used this term one day and even though I knew he was this way a lot, I never put the term to his personality until that day. Often, when he feels threatened he usually snaps and feels he must protect himself. I've seen him do this with friends and with me. He becomes somewhat obsessed and over reacts to feelings he must protect himself, whether it is protecting his feelings or his physical safety.<p>TR- Yes, he may be overreacting to what we deem overreacting..but it's how he learned was the only way to protect himself..it's not right..but it's what he learned..and something he needs to work through..and unfortunetly..you can't force him to get the much needed help he needs..anymore than I can force my stbx to get the help he needs..<p>Anna- The sad thing is, he did do a lot of changing and growing during our marriage. He still had control issues and treated me badly at times, but we had a lot of times of talking as friends and I saw a different person than when we were first married, especially after he stopped drinking.<p>TR- And thats who you fell in love with..the person you saw he could be..<p>Anna- I think he was ashamed too of what he did and he tried hard to forget the things he did. He was very much an alcoholic. He told me a few times, he doesn't even remember most of the life he had during the alcohol days. <p>TR- Yes, I am sure he felt ashamed of what he did..but what you said here..is he tried 'hard to forget' what he had done..but he couldn't forget..
and I'm sure deep down he remembers what he did during those times..but doesn't want to or isn't ready to face it..<p>Anna- He says after a few weeks of drying out, he woke up one day, looked at me and everything in his life and just thought, "What happened and who is this person I married?"<p>TR- and was probably very difficult for him to face..sober..something he'd never done before..<p>
Anna- Maybe I'm naive but I think people who have problems or make mistakes can and do abuse those they love. Take for instance in a heated argument when verbal abuse is used.<p>TR- Not constant abuse..thats not love..if it's in a heated arguement it's one thing..but not if it's continual..the continual is something inside..<p>
Anna- However, I do think my husband never learned the right way to love and show love. I also think he thought loving was all about him getting what he wanted. His was full of self ambition.<p>TR- I agree..what he learned wasn't love..it was fear..making someone stay out of fear..<p>Anna- His anger and temper was a lot of what he knew growing up. It is a viscious cycle. However it does not excuse anything he did. To me, he could and can control it. After all the last time he his me over and over, he did it in a way where there wouldn't be bruises. He only hit me in the head. If he can consciously be aware of this, he could consciously stop himself too.<p>Anna- From what you've said..this is very true..
he learned this as a child..and your right..it doesn't excuse anything he did to you..and your right if he knew there would be no bruises if he hit you on the head..then he was aware of what he was doing..but the problem was..he didn't know any other way to act..and thats something that he has to figure out..but, unfortunately because of his past actions you don't trust him..and it would be difficult for you to help him through it without getting emotionally involved again..and being hurt all over again..

Oh, Anna . . . I am so happy to have stumbled on this post. It explains a lot, especially this week. You are incredible! You are taking such great strides every day in moving on to a better place in your life. It's very admirable of you to break through those walls that have been built and locked tight inside you for so long. The fact that you no longer feel the need to protect your H from his abusive ways is so great! I'm proud of you! I hope you have confirmed in your heart that you have many, many dear friends here on MB who care about you and are here to support you as go through this healing process. You are one super special gal . . . Take care.

Anna, YOu are doing great to get your feelings out in the open. Talking about them is great and so is being able to see what happened... and get opinions and feedback on it. I understand a lot of what you talk about. My H is an alcoholic. He was abandoned by his Mother as a baby, I am starting to think he hates women. I am sick over what he is doing to me and my kids right now. I am in Houston, I live on the NW side. I would not mind talking on the phone or meeting in person. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Email if interested if you are near the NW side... lisaannsmail@yahoo.com I am currently seperated, and it would be good to get out with girl friends, not with men at this point by no means at all! I am possibly working things out... but we have abuse issues too. More verbal than physical... but have had physical... I have been on the worse part of the receiving line.. but my coping skills and strong will to make things work... included me doing some phys. and verbal back... and what kills me is my H keeps saying it is all me, and not him at all. It is a nightmare that he keeps saying to me and everyone including our counselor that I am the abusive one. I think they just can't look at themselves... I accept that I did abusive behavior x and y... but I do not accept that I am as a person abusive... It is so sad when Our relationship had so much love in it... I think that I had a lot of expectations from my H... things most H should do, pay bills etc... that most alcoholics don't do... It has been a nightmare financially being with someone who is up and down on the working scale... SOmetimes he can work, sometimes not... It took yrs for him to start making money... without my help... (We used to run a business together...) Anyway, would love to chat on phone or meet, email me lisaannsmail@yahoo.com thanks, lisa [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Anna, YOu are doing great to get your feelings out in the open. Talking about them is great and so is being able to see what happened... and get opinions and feedback on it. I understand a lot of what you talk about. My H is an alcoholic. He was abandoned by his Mother as a baby, I am starting to think he hates women. I am sick over what he is doing to me and my kids right now. I am in Houston, I live on the NW side. I would not mind talking on the phone or meeting in person. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Email if interested if you are near the NW side... lisaannsmail@yahoo.com I am currently seperated, and it would be good to get out with girl friends, not with men at this point by no means at all! I am possibly working things out... but we have abuse issues too. More verbal than physical... but have had physical... I have been on the worse part of the receiving line.. but my coping skills and strong will to make things work... included me doing some phys. and verbal back... and what kills me is my H keeps saying it is all me, and not him at all. It is a nightmare that he keeps saying to me and everyone including our counselor that I am the abusive one. I think they just can't look at themselves... I accept that I did abusive behavior x and y... but I do not accept that I am as a person abusive... It is so sad when Our relationship had so much love in it... I think that I had a lot of expectations from my H... things most H should do, pay bills etc... that most alcoholics don't do... It has been a nightmare financially being with someone who is up and down on the working scale... SOmetimes he can work, sometimes not... It took yrs for him to start making money... without my help... (We used to run a business together...) Anyway, would love to chat on phone or meet, email me lisaannsmail@yahoo.com thanks, lisa [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]