CC14, I appreciate your suggestions. I keep hoping that my wife will decide on her own that she wants to loose a few pounds. She's 5'2", and has always been petite. When I say 10 pounds, it may only be 5, or 3, or something. I just know that a few pounds on her makes a difference to me. Just so you know, I'm not some weirdo that wants her to be sickly skinny or something. I wonder if sometimes these kinds of things just work themselves out without an awkward confrontation where you invariably say things that come out wrong...you know what I mean, and cause more harm than good. I think I'll just be patient for a while longer and see what happens.<P>So enough about me. I looked back through some earlier replies from you. In my case, I have something specific that I refer to. You indicate that you don't have feelings for your husband. Can you be more specific? Is it a physical thing? Did he get his nose pierced or a bad tattoo or something? (kidding!) Maybe I can help.<P>Skel<BR>

Skel,<BR>I can't pinpoint anything. Nothing has really changed since we married, I just don't feel the physical attraction. I never say no when he wants to have sex, and I truly don't mind -- I enjoy the closeness. I just don't feel any excitement. Of course, he can tell and it upsets him. I have assured him it has nothing to do with him. I don't know what it is but it's very frustrating. Truthfully the sex never has been "awesome" but he has all the qualities I want in a husband and I am perfectly happy to be with him. We dated three years and have been married for three. I am hoping it is just some sort of phase and I will get through it.<BR>Thanks for asking.<BR>I can see that, your wife being 5'2" the weight thing could be difficult for her. Also some women gain all over, which doesn't seem like much. When I said ten pounds is a lot on me, it's because five will go on one hip and five the other, so even at 5'6" it makes a big difference. But for me working out is the key. I was definitely too thin when I was smoking.<P>

Hey, skel, do you think maybe looking at all those airbrused photographs has given you perhaps an unrealistic idea of what a woman should look like?<P>I'm shorter than your W, so I know that just a few pounds makes a difference on us little gals. I also know that it's very hard to get enough nutrition without gaining weight. I GAIN weight on 1200 calories a day.<P>I know someone who airbrushes and retouches "fashion photographs" for a living, and he says that what you see looks nothing like what the photo starts out with.<P>What worries me about you, skel, is that it doesn't get any easier to keep weight off as you age -- particularly for women, particularly for us shorties. I fear that if you have a very strong need to have a woman that looks like an airbrushed nudie photo, you're setting a standard your W can't possibly meet.<P>You have a right to your feelings, certainly, but do you have a right to make your W miserable because of them? <P>I have no answers.

CC14,<P>You know, things always work out - one way or another. We should both just "hang in there". <P>It has been such a pleasure being able to tell SOMEBODY how I feel without getting the 3rd degree on what a jerk I am. I have really looked forward to checking this forum to see if you have replied. I haven't really found a solution to my problem, but I FEEL better just talking to you. Thanks.<P>As for your problem, why don't you get creative? Have sex on your roof, or drink a couple bottles of wine before hand. Or do both! Make it fun!<P>Skel

Dazed & Confused,<P>You're theory about air brushed models creating a standard that can't be obtained not valid to me. True, these pictures SOMETIMES turn me on, but I see a lot more women in real life that turn me on much more than the pictures, including my wife when she's a few pounds lighter. I would probably like the pictures better if they weren't air brushed.<P>You seem to indicate that short women are destined to put on weight, or predictably gain weight, or something (especially with age). In our society, where everybody's in a big hurry and eats so generically, ie., everybody has a MacDonalds # whatever for lunch 2 or 3 times a week, obviously the shorter or smaller person is going to have different results than the taller person that consumes the same amount of calories.<P>Your comment about whether or not I have the right to make my wife miserable because of my feelings is hard for me to even understand.<P>My objective here is certainly not to attack short women, or people with weight problems, but my wife eats more than I do, and she doesn't exercise at all. This is frustrating. It seems like since she quit smoking, all she thinks about is food. When I promised to love her for better or for worse, I don't remember anything about promising that I would be able to "get it up" or be turned on regardless of how much she weighed.<P>All this stuff I've heard about "look deeper", and "see beyond the physical" is just B.S. to me. The people saying this are probably the same ones having affairs. Maybe when they say "look deeper", they mean like next door, or at work or something.<P>You say you have no answers. Well here's the answer. We just won't have sex. There's still nobody I would rather be with than my wife, sex or no sex. <P>Back to the beginning - I simply wish she would loose about 10 pounds. 5 would probably do the trick. Probably as easy as working out 3 times a week. This is my "strong need".<P>

Skel,<P>You brought up the pictures, now you dismiss them? In the post where you brough them up I sensed soul searching and honesty. Now I hear denial. Just MHO.

Mudder,<P>I'm not dismissing them. I'm simply expressing my feeling that air brushing is not the reason I look at them. The women that turn me on in these pictures would turn me on without being air brushed. They don't set a standard that is unattainable. True, most women probably can't look like they do, but the women posing for the pictures didn't SET the standard. Men did. Men set a standard for what they want to look at. Ironically the pictures prove that the standard IS attainable. This is the very reason why the picures are taken. Men have been looking at pictures of naked women long before air brushing was even an idea.<P>Whether this is a healthy practice or not is another story. I think it would be safe to say that most men do it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that most men do it.<P>We can't blame the publishers, the women, the Interet, TV, etc. Men will always find a way to "look at" beautiful women, and to me, there is no need to analyze why we do it. We do it because we want to. It meets a need we have. We want to see a picture of that women we saw on the elevator that morning, or in the grocery store, and these picures just represent that.<P>So men like to look at beautiful women. What more can I say?

Actually, there is more that I can say. To clarify my last comment, when I spoke of an attainable standard, what I meant was the standard of what a picture of a naked women should be, not of what a real women is.<P>I do agree that we as a society are subjected to pornography when we didn't ask for it, and this is wrong. Kids surfing the net should not EVER see pornography. As a side note, most of the pornography I have seen on the Internet is gross. I admit that I have looked for pornography, but I rarely find what I'm looking for, which is just pictures of naked women. Not live sex shows, and women with horses, and 12 year old Asian girls, etc. To me this stuff is warped, but it still must be meeting the demands of somebody. I'm at least grateful that it's not me.<P>I think what it all boils down to for me is the idea of resisting temptation. Is looking at naked women a need or a desire? Probably a desire. I have tried to resist this temptation. I have tried forcing myself NOT to look at an attractive women at the grocery store, for example. Then I always question myself. Why am I resisting this temptation? Why do I have it to begin with? Why are some women so attractive without even trying? What would it take to cause a women to get as turned on by me as I am by them? How would I know if they were? Why would I want this? Do attractive women like being attractive? Isn't it just as hard as being unattractive, but in different ways? Etc, etc.<P>This is probably not a good post for the ones with no answers!

Skel,<BR>You know I have been on your side through the whole thing, but I do think it would help to put aside the visuals for awhile just to see how things go.<BR>I also agree with you that the air brushed thing is not a valid point. I am very, very far from being perfect but I know my husband finds me extremely attractive. The thing, I believe, he finds most attractive is the fact I try so hard to be the best I can be because I know it is his number one emotional need. That's why I said you need to discover what hers are, and concentrate on fulfilling hers. It does have great reciprocal effect.<BR>For instance, I HATE HOUSEWORK WITH A PASSION. I do most of it (my husband does all outside work so I feel that is fair)<BR>but he is always doing something to make my job easier -- taking out garbage, picking up after himself, putting things away -- and those things go a long way toward making me want to do what he wants.<BR>

CC14,<P>It's great to hear from you.<P>Ok. I agree with you. I will put the visuals aside. According to Dr. Hartley, I will become more attracted to my wife if I refrain from having sex in any way that does not include her.<P>You may not be the right person to ask, because you're a women, but, do you think that if I can't NOT masturbate (to pictures, videos, etc.) that I have an addiction? <P>To be totally honest with you (and embarrassed and ashamed), I have been masturbating to pictures of naked women since I was in my teens. For whatever reason I didn't stop doing this when I got married. I'm going to try really hard to stop doing this. All my life I have felt like something was wrong with me for doing this, but when I would read on "masturbation", everthing I read said that this act is "normal".<P>Let me know what you think, because if I don't masturbate for a week, I think my hair will start turning green, and I'll be foaming at the mouth or something. I'm really confused about this masturbating thing, but here goes. I'll stop for a month. If I'm still alive by then, I'll let you know.<P>Skel

CC14,<P>Well, I'm 10 minutes into my program, and I seem to be holding out OK.<P>Hey, what is your #1 emotional need? My wife is out of town right now, but when she gets back I'm going to ask her what her's is. You mentioned that you HATE DOING HOUSEWORK. I have a feeling that this is going to be my wife's #1 emotional need, so this could get ugly. I'm going to be a green haired, foaming at the mouth guy cleaning toilets. I'm entering into a world unknown to man.<P>Skel <P>

Skel,<BR>I guess my number 1 would be financial support with domestic support running an extremely close second. And I am not talking about wealth here -- just reasonable security. It hasn't always been my top priority, but it is important to me now. I struggled for a very long time on my own and I am very grateful for the security my husband has provided me. As for domestic support -- it isn't just the housework. My husband is great about fixing things, he takes an interest in helping me make our home look nice and he appreciates the effort I make to make things nice at home. We enjoy our accomplishments. This is funny, but just last night I asked him to list his top five emotional needs for the first time. Predictably, physical appearance was his number one, but his number 2 was AFFECTION! I would not have even guessed that to be in his top five. Then CONVERSATION! And all this time I thought I was being a wise and savvy wife to keep my mouth shut and my hands to myself. The funny thing is, neither one of those is one of my top five, which, I think is unusual for a woman. But now I know what I need to be working on. Point is, you might be surprised what your wife wants.

CC14,<P>Strangely enough, I was at church today and they had Dr. Harley's book for sale there. Of course I bought it, and now I can relate better to all these "emotional needs" that everyone's talking about. The best part for me was the chapter on "physical appearance" as an "emotional need". I couldn't believe that this made the "top ten"! I'm not crazy after all! This is a NEED that I have. I NEEEED this. My wife doesn't even know I have the book. I'm hiding it under the bed. I just can't imagine telling her that this is a need that I have. If I ever get the nerve to tell her, I think I'm going to "need" an ice pack! She is SO sensitive about this (I've "tested the water" before). It just seemed to make sense in Dr. Harley's book that if she really loves me, she'll do this for ME.<P>After reading through the emotional needs, I had a hard time imagining her top need, but when I really thought about it, I told myself that I would gladly try as hard as could to meet any of her needs, just to have her meet this one need of mine.<P>I'm still confused about you're situation.<BR>You talk very highly of your husband, and yet in other responses you have indicated that you are less than satisfied. If you had to pick an emotional need that isn't being met, which one would it be? I hope by asking I'm not making you feel bad. I think sometimes people just don't know what's missing, but I thought if you could categorize it, maybe you could better identify the problem.<P>Skel<P>

Skel,<BR>Glad you got the book and no you are not crazy. Physical appearance is an emotional need -- my husband's number 1, as I said. It amazes me how many people have been critical that you have this need, or try to make you ashamed that it is your number 1.<BR>As for me, Skel, I just don't know. I can't think of any top need my husband is not meeting except -- well I guess sex (which is one of my top 5). But it isn't like he's not doing something I want him to do -- he would do anything. I just don't FEEL anything. I just don't get turned on -- no matter WHAT he does.I don't think it is a physical problem -- like hormones or something -- because I can feel aroused when I am not with him. I don't know how to put this delicately, but I do fine on my own --get my drift?<BR>I am not an affectionate person -- we rarely touch except to have sex. That has never been a problem for me. But even though I do not feel that I want the affection I wonder if that is why I don't have the feeling I should. But if I needed the affection, wouldn't I know it?<BR>Finding out that affection and conversation were high on his list gives me something to work for. As I said, I am hoping for some sort of reciprocal effect.

CC14,<P>My wife got back from a trip 2 days ago. Yesterday, as we were talking, I started asking her questions about her #1 emotional need, etc. I told her about the book I had, and somehow we got to talking (in a vague sort of way) about physical appearance. It was really strange. She understood me, and explained to me that she was going to get a treadmill and start working out in order to loose some weight. Just having her SAY this was like a huge load taken off of me. I guess deep down, I really was resentful of her, regardless of whether it was justified or not. So, as far as I'm concerned the problem is on it's way to being resolved. I have YOU to thank for this!<P>As for your situation, did you EVER feel turned on by your husband? I can't help but to think that you're missing something, and sex might just be the symptom. What I mean by this, is, YOU are meeting some emotional need that I have. Since I've never seen you, I know it's not physical attraction. I think it has something to do with understanding. I don't know exactly what it is, but I look TOO forward for your replies. Maybe it's just the excitement of sharing my inner most thoughts with an intelligent, open minded, thoughtful, insightful, compassionate, sensitive, attractive, and beautiful women. And having you talk to me about your own sexuality exposes your own humanity (huge turn on). We can tell each other ANYTHING. <P>Maybe it's the "fantasy" element that is so exciting. Nevertheless, I don't think it's healthy for me (or you) to converse with you any longer. I'm developing feelings for YOU! As the cliche goes, I didn't mean for this to happen, but I think about you all the time. <P>The thing I've learned the most from this forum, is that we tend to already know the answers to our problems. We just need someone to relate to and identify with. I'm confident that you have the intelligence to resolve your own issues. Be patient, and trust yourself! You are really something!<P>Take care and good luck! <P>Skel <P>

Skel,<BR>I am so happy I was able to help. You are absolutely right about no more communication. With the kind of commitment you are showing, I know you and your wife are going to have a wonderful life together.<BR>Very best of luck!<BR>

Skel, Congrats! It sounds like you're problem is on the way to being resolved. I hope you're still reading these posts though because I could use your help. <BR>My husband is a lot like you and I'm thinking you might help me understand him. I know he loves me and is committed to our marriage but he is too kind to be honest with me -- he won't come right out and tell me he isn't attracted to me but I can tell that's the case. <BR>I think physical attractiveness is one of his top emotional needs. I'm about 20 lbs overweight and have been since my H and I met (we've know each other for one year and been married for 3 months). I've wanted to lose this weight and have lost inches since we've met but not enough...I still need to lose more. The good thing about my H is that he tells me he thinks I'm beautiful on the inside and that I have a pretty face. He has never come right out and told me he isn't attracted to me sexually. He also works out with me -- we work out VERY intensely...he has always been a serious athlete so he is functioning as my personal trainer. I admire the patience with which he's helping me reshape my body (I just diligently pray that it works and I that I am attractive to him someday). <P>This is where I think you can help me understand him. I think my husband has never felt attracted to me...we didn't go through the newlywed phase of not being able to keep our hands off each other (I felt that way but he didn't so I have to hold my feelings in). I know he finds me unattractive because the only way he can get aroused for sex is to watch porno movies or look at attractive women on TV. What I want help in understanding is how can he put up with this and/or for how long? Are we headed for him having an affair with a woman who he does find attractive? If I were him I don't think I could stand to be married to someone that I found so repulsive (well, maybe not quite that bad) that I had to pretend they someone I was watching on a video (I guess that's what he does).<BR>Basically I feel sorry for my husband. He says I shouldn't because he's completely happy and knows I'm the woman for him. I just feel like he's missing out. How can you still love your wife but not be attracted to her??? is it love like you have for a best friend? How long can a marriage survive without sexual passion? <BR>I just want to figure this out and I can't talk to him because, like I said he is too kind and denies that my weight is a big problem. <P>Any thoughts or explanations?

Lucky,<P>First, you should know that I have (for the most part) always been attracted to my wife. What she needs to do to make me happy is very doable.<P>If you are trying to be something you're not, then I have to wonder. I don't think you should have to totally "reshape", and "resculpt" and all that stuff. I think this is asking too much of you. If working out 3 times a week for 20 minutes or so doesn't do the trick, then I think you're trying too hard to be something you're not. This doesn't mean that you're not attractive! I've seen plenty of women that do the best they can with what they have, including makeup, perfume, clothes, etc., and to me, some of them are knockouts, even though their bodies aren't "perfect". You have to understand that with my situation, I was used to my wife being a certain way, and it changed a little too much for me. I seem to be misunderstood about this, but I don't mean that she got a wrinkle, or a gray hair, or a year older, or was in a car accident or something. In other words, if SHE worked out 3 times a week for 20 minutes, the problem is history. And luckily for me, she is willing to do this without resenting me or anything.<P>I think if I were you I would insist on a rule of NO PORNOGRAHY. This just complicates everything too much in any relationship. It may result in something coming to a head, and this "something" may not even be what you want, but I think that by eliminating the porno, you simplify the problem. If your husband can't stop it, then he may be like me, and have a problem with it. Since I'm not a doctor, I really don't want to offer advice on how to quit, etc. I just think that the porno needs to go. Take it from me, men, as a whole, don't know that porno is NOT OK. They're NOT SURE, so you need to let them know. You don't need to explain how it hurts you, and how inconsiderate it is, etc. You just need to say NO. Guys respond to this! NO wearing your muddy shoes on the carpet, mow the lawn, take out the trash, help me with the dishes, pick up your clothes, and NO porno! (I hope I can live by my own advice!) But you can see that some of us guys need YOU to tell us what's OK and what isn't. ***** about it.<P>As far as you're husband having an affair, I don't think you have any control over this.<P>If your're doing the best you can (within reason!), then it's his loss anyway.<P>Hope this helps.<P>Skel<P><BR>

Lucky,<P>Don't you love the way I blab on and on?<P>Let me clarify what I meant in the last post.<P>Nobody, including myself, has the right to tell you that you're trying to be something your not. For this, I apologize. If YOU enjoy working out, and focusing on improving specific parts of your body, then I think you should keep on doing it. I don't know anything about you, and you may very well be able to meet your goals, and physically become the person you are trying to become. I'm not the authority on how often and how long you should do it. I just personally feel that it should be REASONABLE, especially if you don't really enjoy it that much. Lots of people are in good physical condition that don't necessarily have "perfect" bodies.<P>My wife has already started exercising with a Nordic Track. To me, she looked better after her first time. It's because she demonstrated to me that she loves me enough to do this for me. This in itself can promote physical attraction.<P>The thing about your situation is, that, you haven't changed since you got married, except that you've maybe lost some weight. So all you've done is IMPROVE since you got married.<BR>Is it possible your husband married you, thinking he could change you into what he wanted? I know this can happen sometimes, but let's hope this isn't the case.<P>I still want to re-emphasize a couple of things from my last post. A women who has self respect, dresses nicely, smells good, has a decent hair style, and carries herself well is automatically attractive. You even have more going for you because you have a pretty face. So, you're already attractive, you just want your husband to think so.<P>I still feel that you will demonstrate self repect to your husband if you disallow porno in your house. In my opinion, it should be compared with him bringing home other women, drugs, etc. I don't think this should be acceptable, and I wish my wife would have make a big deal about it along time ago, because she would having been helping herself, me, and our marriage. Believe or not, your husband probably feels really bad about this. It might be a relief to him to know for sure that it's NOT OK.<P>Sure, you can't really NOT watch TV. You're husband might become aroused by seeing attractive women on TV. Just make sure that "TV" is not Cinemax, Showtime, and other movie stations that specialize in female nudity. These stations would love to have you believe that they are providing healthy, adult "after hours" programming that stimulates sexual arousal for a married couple. They're wrong. These shows are pure garbage, and they cater to men because they know women won't watch this crap. In my opinion, if you have these types of stations, they should be cancelled.<P>You even have to watch out for stuff like "Victoria's Secret" catalogs ending up around the house. Again, these catalogs are inappropriate, and they would love to have you beleive that they are "normal". These catalogs are porno. If men use them to masturbate to, which they do, then, in my book, they are porno.<P>It's really sad that we are exposed so heavily to porno, but we are, so we have to call a spade a spade, and if it's porno, it should not be allowed. Even the Sunday newspapers are full of ads from stores that have women in seductive lingerie. Again, it needs to go in the trash. It's not appropriate. I'm not sure what they're trying to sell, but it's not appropriate.<P>So how long can your husband go on not being physically attracted to you? Maybe demonstrating some self respect will turn things around more than you know. Self respect is attractive. <P>I know that the bottom line for you is that you just want your husband to be physically attracted to you. If he never was to begin with, this could be difficult. In my opinion, the best place to start would be to simply keep on exercising, maybe try a new hair style, and get the porno out of the equation. I really think it is unreasonable for you to try to "hurry up" and loose 20 pounds before he finds somebody else. It could even be dangerous to your health. Also know that if he's looking at porno all the time, I think it's fairly unlikely that he'll end up in an affair. It's the ones with no signs of porno around that you need to worry about. They're getting the real thing somewhere! <P>This is my .02 cents worth, and I could be totally wrong on everything I've told you, so I would always consider a professional marriage counselor in addition to what I've said.<P>Good luck to you!<P>Skel<P> <P>

Skel,<BR>I misjudged you. You seem like a very decent guy. I apologize for 'shooting my mouth off' before I got to know you (as much as one can from this sort of thing). I wish you the best of luck in your marriage, and I hope you find what you were missing :-)