How can kids have anything approaching a normal life with bi-weekly visitation? How can they get a job, play sports, or join the debate team when they are unavailable every other weekend? <p>How can this possibly work unless the NCP chooses to live close by? My kids' father lives an hour away.

Nellie,<p>If I were you, I'd talk to my exH and discuss with him the activities the kids are desiring to participate in - sports, whatever. I would think that he could help you to work around these schedules so that they could participate and he could see them. Knowing your story, I doubt that your exH has given any thought to how the D and his visitation schedule has affected the kids' lives. He might be amenable to working around their schedules. It might even make things "easier" on him, since he seems to want to keep the contact with them limited for the convenience of his new W. Approach him and he might be more amenable than you think.<p>Good luck, Desiree

Hi Nellie,<p>My H and I have bi-weekly visitation with his children, and they have had lots of activities scheduled on those weekends we have them - hockey, skating, basketball, soccer, babysitting, birthday parties. We don't live around the corner, and the activities are sometimes an hour drive for us, one way. It sometimes seems that we spend the entire weekend driving them here and there, but they do participate. <p>Isn't the problem more that your Ex-H doesn't want to be involved? <p>(By the way, I wish you and your children a blessed holiday season filled with peace and love.)

RollMeAway,<p>He will work around one time events, like a birthday party, but something like a job or sports would occur every weekend. For the last year he has been picking them up at about 10:30 on Saturday and bringing them back at 4, so if they had an activity in the late morning or early afternoon there would be virtually no time for "visitation." He claims he may start taking them overnight. A couple of weeks ago he decided to do so but didn't tell the kids until they were already in the car, without any clothes or books or toys, and when they had a conflict. <p>And if I have a conflict, if he knows about it he will go out of his way to make sure that he doesn't take them - because that is, according to him, "babysitting."<p>Sheryl,<p>Thanks for your good wishes, and I hope you have a peaceful holiday as well.<p>It is not so much that he doesn't want to be involved as that he wants it on his terms. He actually claimed that the separation agreement allows him to tell me as little as 48 hours in advance that he is or isn't going to take them on a given weekend, and that it does not require him to specify whether they are going to stay overnight in advance. That is not, of course, accurate. <p>I, too, have to work my schedule completely around visitation - if the little kids want lessons, I have to schedule them during the week. I have at least two kids 24/7 since he takes only two at a time. If I have the older ones, I can't take them anywhere even for the day because I have to be back at 4 when the little ones get home. I can't afford babysitters when I can't even afford food. I sometimes pay the older ones to babysit if it is going to be for a significant amount of time, but they don't charge me the going rate of five bucks an hour, and if they are not home and the little ones are, I can't go anywhere unless I take them too. Even Christmas shopping is almost impossible, even if I had any money to buy presents.

Nellie,
I understand you completely. I am in the same shoes only I have 2 daughters, 20yrs and 12 yrs old.

ExH lives in 3 floor house with pregnant OW (baby will come in March).<p>First; OD after separation lived with them, he took YD when he wanted, I usually was informed max a day before. Never during the workdays, only weekends: from Fri evening till Sat or Sun evening, how he decided.
In the court we have signed that "we will make agreements when/how often he'll take YD with me" (it's possible in our country)
First yr that was about every other weekend, me never knowing more than a day before but sometimes not a month even more.<p>From Sept (now I realize that is almost from the pregnancy point and at the same time that's the moment when OD came to live with me) he started to take her EACH weekend: FRi-Sat evening! Can you imagine MY weekends , not a single weekend when all 3 of us can plan something.<p>I almost accidently am informed when he'll not take YD , like this weekend.<p>I am very afraid how will it work when baby comes!! If visitation suddenly stop it would be a schoch for YD. She adores her father.<p>I am in the same position and concerning money problem, one alimony now when both girls are with me-he refuses to pay more-there's no way to force him cause he has his own company and makes official salary lower than mine (at the Faculty).<p>So in fact I have no real advice, just to offer you understanding and support.
And hope that they'll walk out of the fog one day and realize what have they done to kids, but I am afraid it'll be to late-for kids.<p>BTW YD often tells me that dad and OW are so better than me cause they never force her to learn or makes homework, they go out, play, have fun only.<p>
If you have time look at my last thread and you'll see my additional problems about holidays (similar to yours).<p>Wish you best

Nellie, <p>I can understand that you are ina predicament. I still think I would ask him. Have some idea first off what youare asking him to do. If it is soccer and the games are generally every Sat morning, then at least you can say - on the Sat you have this child, could you arrnage to meet us at soccer and then you could see the game and takie the two youare taking from that point? I would ask him via email (so you can keep a copy and have proof that you tried). If he responds back negatively, involve the legal system, again. The courts would see that you are asking for something REASONABLE and in the best interests of the CHILDREN - not your convenience or his convenience. Your lawyer could send a letter to his lawyer and if no response, further legal action could be taken. After all, the whole point SHOULD be minimizing the trauma and disruption to the children. I know that is the case on your side, but it isn't on his. You may have to press the issue.<p>I am curently dating a D man with young children. Everything we do pretty much revolves around their schedules. The middle son is on a travelling baseball and the middle school basketball team. The daughter recently finished soccer and is in a couple of other school activities. Needless to say, we spend weekends pretty much ferrying them around, and watching them participate in these activities. For me it is fun, as my children are older, and these things were over for me. I respect this man very much because of his continued commitment to his children. He and his exW have really done one of the finest jobs of co-parenting I have seen. They get along great and work together for the best interests of the children.<p>I think you need to really push this issue. Please consider it.<p>Merry Christmas, Desiree

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

Betrayed and Desparate,<p>According to our separation agreement, the biweekly visitation is supposed to be "mutually convenient," but that doesn't happen. <p>RollMeAway,<p>He knows I have no money to involve the legal system. I have no money to buy the kids food and clothes. <p>One problem is that say the kids have an activity on one Saturday and the kids and I have an activity on another Saturday. He would be willing to not have them come on the Saturday of their activity, but only if took them on the other Saturday. What has basically happened is that I have to schedule absolutely everything on only half the weekends of the year. It is all or nothing - he has not taken them to any of their activities since shortly after he left. The one time he was supposed to bring a child to meet her G.S. troop, he called a couple of minutes before she was supposed to be there to say he was stuck in traffic and she ended up missing a good deal of the activity, and it caused all the girls to be late. <p>mylife,<p>My lawyer wanted us to develop a parenting plan, but he refused because it cost money.

mylife,<p>coparenting can only work if parents agree on how to parent from before the divorce. I have a XW who is the CP, and believes like your WH. <p>We do not agree on discipline, because XW does not really like to say no (she says that and i observe that!) XW also does not follow through with activities she says that she will do. She also fought me about sharing equal time, saying minimum time with me is best for the kids. Kids know how to play her off against me and win everytime with XW.<p>XH and XW come in all forms. My XW is a teacher, high caliber, (on the surface) and she has done homework for the kids. . . because she can do it faster. . . . I had a discussion with her, and she said she couldn't stop herself, even though she knew it was wrong. . . <p>so do i argue with her every time? the kids come to my house with some very wierd concepts of parent children relationships, and interpersonal relationships, and kids don't like my rules in my house. (they constantly say they don't get what they want when they want it. . . sound like your WH?_ yep, she can't say no to her kids, guilt. . . over compensation. . . . very manipulative person, and 9 yo daughter is learning good manipulative methods, although it doesn't work with me very well, and she gets very frustrated with me.<p>Yeah, there are emotionally unstable people everywhere, with wierd outlooks on life. So, i do the best i can to present to both kids how a good parent takes care of his kids, and shows them how to properly relate to others. . . . we will see how well it works.<p>9 yo daughter is slowly figuring out that XW is constantly full of ****, but XW keeps her very emotionally close, with lots of kissing in public, lots of constant hugging all the time in public. . . couldn't even let me have them overnight without having them call in two hours later. . . . couldn't negotiate with me but tries to tell the kids to tell me issues. sorry , i constantly have to tell her to talk to me. . . <p>so welcome to the "as the weird world turns. . . "
its all totally normal, and the kids get all screwed up in the process, but look at the FOO and there you will see most of where it comes from. . .<p>WIFTTy

Nellie,<p>I just have a minute but wanted to check your response. I know you are in a very untenable situation money -wise. But, perhaps your attorney wouldn't charge you an arm and a leg for a letter to his attorney. Think about it, please.<p>Second thought is this: I am not trying to tell you what to do, but you seem to be trying to adapt everything in an effort to manage or at least ensure that he gets time with the kids. This is a noble thing to do, but it is not your responsibility. He and he alone is responsible for his time/relationship, or lack thereof, with the kids. If you went ahead and planned the kids' activities, within reason, and not trying to cut him off or out of his time, then HE and he alone can decide if he will participate, honor their wishes to enjoy extracurricular activities and try to re-arrange to see his kids. I don't mean to sound cold, but are the kids benefitting from this rather pathetic relationship? In the long run, he has to be responsible for his own relationship with them, and you can only do so much.<p>You are in my thoughts and prayers, Desiree

Nellie,
I can only hope that this coming year gets somewhat better for you.<p>I agree with Roll Me Away, you are not responsible for enabling your X to form a relationship with your children. He and the kids need to do this on their own, and the kids need to be involved in all the extra curricular activities that are good for them. If your X continually makes you change schedules etc, and you accomodate this, then you are allowing him to control all this.<p>Scedule the kids for the activities if they want this, and let X know all the children's schedules for the month/season. The let him inform you when he will take them to these activities when his visitation is scheduled or not...If he refuses to, then you will have the extra weekend to do the stuff, if he gets involved,all the better for your kids, and if the kids are scheduled and he says he will take them and then does not, the children will be upset,but they will decide whether to either forgo the activity or visitation. <p>You can somewhat make it work for your kids, only if you present them with all the activities they want.It should not be visitation over activities that are beneficial for your children. Let your X take you to court if he does not like the arrangements. Make sure you e-mail him the schedules etc so can prove you gave him advance ample notification. <p>He will either start to be involved more with the kids (doubtful) , threaten and blame you and make you feel awful(try to ignore this) or spend less time with the kids.<p>Nellie, I am living an insane existance with my kids....very much ongoing still, but at least I am making it as normal for myself and for them.....and when they buy into his choices, they are finding that they are getting very badly burned and will have to see the situation a lot more clearly.<p>We cannot protect our children from this dysfunctional parenting,but nor should we enable this at our children's expense if we do not have to.<p>Nellie, please take care of Nellie too.<p>How are the younger children really doing?

Nellie1:<p>I have no advice to offer you, but was glad to see you posting again. I have been away for awhile. I hope things are going better for you. I am doing pretty good, but my girls are not faring too well with the divorce and meeting the OW. Time will only tell when this plays out. Take care.<p>TM

Wiftt,<p>One of the many things that bothers me is that my H was a good father when he was home. To the best of my knowledge we did agree on how to parent. Now I am dealing with a complete stranger, one who no longer seems to share any of our previously shared goals. <p>RollMeAway,<p>I have told him several times that he is responsible for his relationship with the kids, but if for whatever reason they get angry with him, he immediately blames me. The kids are scared to death of his anger.<p>I doubt the lawyer will do anything for me - she hasn't yet done everything required in the separation agreement and I still owe her thousands of dollars.<p>willbok,<p>From past experience, I am well aware that if the kids have activities, he will not see them on that weekend. Unfortunately that means that I have to schedule ALL kid activities on "my" weekends. It is not like I have free time on "his" weekends, because I always have at least some of the kids. I have the worst of both worlds - I have limited freedom to schedule activities for me or the kids, I have no support for raising 6 kids, and I have responsibility for the kids 24/7. I have to work to support the kids, somehow go to school 2/3 of full-time, and he has absolutely no responsibility. <p>Trapped Mom,<p>I am sorry to hear that your girls are not faring well. I hope next year will be better too - but since 2000 was worse than 99 and 2001 was worse than 2000 I don't have much hope that it will be.

oops, double<p>[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</p>

I have bi-weekly visitation and it works out great. I also have to say that the X also lets me see my 10YoD when ever I want tooo.. So that being said, last night my daughter calls and says..
(Now this is a quote)<p>"Dada.. Ok, I just wanted to figure out what we are going to do this weekend.." Ok, I said. "Ok, First you will pick me up from grandmaws around 4Pm,, OK Dada" Ok,I said. "Then we will go to blockbusters and rent a few movies, then you can take me to dinner, then you will have me at your house Friday night, then all day saterday and saterday night and all day sunday and sunday night, then on monday you'll drop me off at MeMe's (grandma's nickname) then pick me up after you get off work then we'll go home and you can take me to dinner agian then when we get home we'll open Christmas presents and I'll stay over Christmas eve night then on Christmas day early,early you can take me over to mommy's house and we can open presents over there and maybe you could have a cup of coffee before you leave.. How does that sound DaDa?" I said "It sounds good, and it sounds like you have this whole thing planned out.. So I can have a cup of coffee over at mommy's house?" Yes, she says.. But what about painting the kitchen? She said "We don't have time and I hate painting anyway.." <p>Soooooo.. My recomendation is "Don't sweat the small stuff. The post divorce relationship and how you communicate w/ the X is the most important thing.. These things have a way of working themselves out when you communicate requirements.. <p>The X will call me and need to swap a day during the week. If it works out that I have no plans its a done deal. I try to come from a prospective of helping out when ever I get the chance. There are times I go pick up the kid just because I had a feeling the the X needed a break.. It costs nothing,I get to see the kid, the X doesn't seem as stressed out. and I don't have to deal w/ the fallout, or pick up the peices.<p>Anyway, I starting to babble,, <p>It'll work if you 2 talk about it.<p>My .02$<p>Tex.

I think that's the key. Both parties have to be willing to put all anger, whether deserved or not, our of their head and think about the kids. Unfortunately, the WS usually is only thinking about themselves. <p>Nellie, I'd keepo a journal of what your WH says and does when it comes to the kids. Then when the divorce comes and he wants to make some crazy argument like he never sees the kids or he doesn't want a co-parenting agreement - you can show the court everything that you've done to bend over backward for him and the court may mandate that he be civil and start thinking about the kids.<p>Mediation is also usually a cheaper way and less adversarial way to go about the process. Ous local bar association does it for cheap. Somethimes you can call the Bar Association in your city and see if they have any programs like that in conjunciton with famiy court.<p>Just doing the best you can to make your home a safe, secure environment for the kids will really pay off in the end. We have to look at the big pictures - in terms of years. Put out the little fires as the arise, and then God will certainly help us take care of the rest. [censored] Luck. K

AGoodMan,<p>It sounds like a good idea, but unfortunately I have little opportunity to talk to him about anything. If I am home when he picks up or drops off the kids, and the OW is not with him, I may have a few minutes to exchange important info - if I go outside in the cold, since he refuses to set foot in the house if I am inside. On rare occasions I have talked to him on his cell phone, but you can't really have a conversation while he is driving down the street, and I don't want to be responsible for his being distracted and wiping someone out. The one time I called him at the OW's house, and politely asked to speak to him to let him know of an important change of plans, the OW hung up on me as soon as she found out who I was. I later asked him how to get a hold of him in an emergency, and he said to call and leave a message on his cell and he would get it the next time he got in the car, or in a dire emergency to call and they might let the answering machine pick it up. I am not going to call a household where I am treated so rudely. If I email him, he may or may not respond, and his response may or may not have been edited by the OW. He does not act like he has any interest in working together for the kids. <p>Long ago he started to take the kids only two at a time because their "bickering" disturbed the "atmosphere" in the OW's house, and he stated that he would do whatever was necessary to make sure that the atmosphere was not disturbed. <p>A couple of weeks ago he out of the blue decided that he wanted the two older ones to stay overnight, for the first time in over a year. He did not tell me, and he did not even mention it to them until after they were in the car - even though I was not at home when he picked them up. I suspect he was afraid they would refuse to go. Aside from the fact that there was a scheduling conflict, the kids did not even have a chance to pack their homework, their clothes, or their toys.<p>mylife,<p>The divorce has actually been final for nearly a year. The doubt very much that the judge even read the separation agreement - some of it was illegible anyway due to the lawyers' cross-outs and changes. My H refused to go to a counselor to develop a parenting plan. However recently, when one of the kids was terribly upset and didn't want to go with him, when he married the OW and told the kids after the fact, as they were driving home from his birthday dinner, he suggested that he, the OW, and I all go to a counselor together. I told him that I would go to a counselor with him, but not with her, and he hasn't mentioned it since - I doubt the OW would allow that.