I am struggling. About a year ago, my H said he wasn't happy. In march 2001 he moved out. In May he moved in with OW. He has never tried to work on our marriage. He is being a good father and we don't fight or argue. I filed for divorce in Sept after I accepted that my marriage was over and that he wanted to be with OW. H is being very nice to me, comes by to take kids to school, tells me I'm his best friend, yada,yada, yada. He still wants me in his life but not as a wife. He still cares about me but doesn't want to date or consider working on the marriage. <p>Problem is that he is not happy. OW is draining him dry. In the 17 years I've known him, I've never seen him dead broke until now. He is physically feeling bad too. Used to never get sick and now he pretty much feels bad all the time. Classic depression but he won't go to doctor. He even said yesterday he felt like something was broke in his head.<p>I am a giver. to a fault actually. I have no spine and all my attempts to grow one have failed thus far. I know I should not feel sorry for him. I know he brought this all on himself and should suffer the consequences. I just can't help feeling sorry for him. I want to make it better and it is frustrating that I can't. The thing is that I don't even think he wants it to be better. <p>The wife of a friend of his ran into my mom picking up kids at school and told her that OW was whore, she treated H like dirt and that she was bleeding him dry financially. <p>I was the total opposite. I took care of everything, only used about 1/2 his income for bills and never said anything with what he did with the rest, and I never placed alot of requirements on him. If he wanted to fish, he fished. At one point we had 4 boats and I never said a thing. My goal was to make him happy. I see now that I needed to treat him more like a grown up and less like a child. I was just as much his caregiver/mother figure as I was his partner/wife. <p>My dilema now is that I really don't want him back right now. I'm not willing to accept being lied to and cheated on. I would have loved to re-established my marriage over the past year but now I think I'm past it. Maybe I'm just scared that he will want to use me as a fall-back plan. I don't think he will really change and become my partner instead of just someone who lives in my house for me to take care of.<p>If anyone has been through this and experienced anything similar, please offer me some advise. I don't care if it's encouragement to reconcile or encouragement to run for my life. I just need to share these emotions with someone.<p>Thanks<p>Lynn

<p>[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: MMMMM ]</p>

Hi Lynn<p>Ya know, it don't think his choices are so much about you as they are about him. I would still keep an open game plan, hail mary passes still work once in a while.<p>However, that does not mean you will start up where you left off, oh no! the old coaching staff has to be fired, and you need to get a completely new coaching staff. This new staff comes complete with a personal on call shrink for each player. . . Then, there needs to be a new offensive/defensive coordinator for the new team. . .<p>however, i suggest just playing your game the way you are, with the current head coach, make the best of your game, and see what happens. . . If in the off season, there are new free agents, take your itme to consider if any free agents should be picked up from other teams, or from rival teams. of course, time changes perspectives, and yours is changing from what you are watching. . . but the game goes on, and so do you.<p>No one knows the future, everyone just works on themselves to be the most valuable teammate they possibly can, and from there, you have a shot at the pro bowl.<p>good luck
sportsguy

Thanks for the replies.<p>Sportsguy, I've often compared my H to the way the Braves play in the playoffs. Cocky, confident, clueless that they have to keep the intensity level up. Assuming that just because it's the playoffs, that they will win and not putting much effort or passion into trying to win. Then when down 3 games to none, they try to turn up the charm but by then it's way too late and the series is over.<p>I want my marriage to be like the second half of the Packers game yesterday. Intense, focused, and with a complete team effort towards a common goal of victory and success. Sure a few obstacles will arise(i.e. the Rams [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) but that just unifies the team all the more....Then and only then do I see a superbowl "ring" back in the picture.<p>
Thanks for listening. <p>PP

(((((PP)))))<p>I can understand what you're saying. I feel that you do still have love in your heart for your stbx. I also understand about not wanting to be with someone because of being lied to, cheated on and how they treat us when they are deep in the fog (mean).<p>I think you're doing great... I mean you seem to have a good relationship with your stbx. By this I mean... he is seeing what he has lost... YOU !!
He probably thought/said all those things a ws says during the heavy moments of the fog... never really loved you etc. I wonder if sometimes the ws thinks that things have gone to far and they might as well just stay where they are and try and make the best of it. In some ways they have this strong alligence(sp) to the op. I don't get that part at all...but they do.<p>My exh and I can't talk at all... I still have soooo much anger/sadness that Its best if I don't speak to him except for the kids and the selling of our home. I do envy you that you can do this. Its hard for me... I guess because I think of allll the things he said and how MEAN he was during the affair. I can't call it a affair now because we are divorced. He still is with the ow, she lives in another country. It appears that things are just as strong as ever. He'll probably be a statistic as the 5% that make it...<p>Anyway... ya know what... you just never know.. what might happen here... keep working on you and keep growing.... its sounds like things (fog) are lifting... and you just never know what you might say... if he asked you to reconcile(sp)... Its like, we never thought we would have happen to us in our marriages... and if it had we always thought we would have acted a certain way.... well, now from experience...you just never know what you might do if he did want to return. Keep the communication open with him...she's seems to be killing the relationship off slowly but surely with him.. <p>I think the reason you feel bad for him is because you would have never thought to have done anything like shes doing... you were partners... in the marriage... you love him and loved him during the 17 years... you have children with him and I truly believe that even if we are so totally sick by what they have done, we honestly and truly would never wish harm on them.... see we all have years with the ws... we've grown up together.. the good times and the bad... only and I have to say this... for their own selfish reasons and of course the fog... they choose to have the affair... instead of trying to fix the problems.... and we all have problems in the marriage... they choose the affair way out. Alot of ws feel the Grass is always greener, but in reality.... its not. <p>I don't know if I have helped you... but when I read your post... I saw this incredible/amazing women and felt the need to respond...<p>Peace be with you.........
s

Hi PP-<p>First of all are you from Wisconsin or do you just have great taste in football teams? I am from Northern WI and we are so pumped up for St. Louis! Granted, I would much rather that we were facing the Bears next weekend, but I think we're up for the challenge!<p>As for your marriage stuff. You sound a lot like me. I too am a giver and feel often that when it comes to my WH I have a history of having no backbone, however that has changed. He had the affair, moved out, chose her, is still with her, etc., but yet I still love him. My WH is also an alcoholic so in addition to all the MB stuff I have done a ton of Al-Anon stuff too. I highly recommend it because it deals a lot with detatching yourself and letting the person caught up in the addiction deal with it. <p>Like your H my H has shown no interest in getting back together, dating, counseling, etc. yet now that I have accepted to move on ( our divorce will be finalized in a month) he is acting different. He has never said anything directly, but he has done some weird things. He is also hanging around a lot longer when getting the kids and talking a lot. He is financially drained, and depressed, but in denial too. The OW in my case is not a whore, she is a homely, dull, introverted, naive, 21 year old college student. A year and a half ago she offered him freedom and a clean slate. She had no expectations compared to a wife with three children and one on the way. Now however reality is starting to sink in and I think the fantasy is dwindling.<p>The other night he offered to watch our kids at our house so I could got to the movies. He had to go to work at 11 that night so he said he'd get them to bed, sleep on the couch, and would set the alarm, but asked if I would wake him up in case he slept through it (It's an old, bad habit that I guess he still hasn't improved),and he'd go to work from there. Well, when I got home he was asleep- half dressed in our bed! He hadn't set the alarm so I had to go in and wake him up. When I did he rolled over in a way in which it seemed was to make room on the bed for me and started talking about the night. I stayed standing. Then he stopped talking and said he could sleep there all night and just looked at me. I jokingly said too bad you have to work. He lingered there for awhile just watching me and then said he better get going. After he left I couldn't help but wonder what he was thinking, but I was proud I hadn't done anything.<p>I guess I agree with everyone here. The affair is an addiction and should be treated like one. With addiction there must be a bottoming out in order to fix things. If you intervene you will prevent that from happening. The book Why Love Must be Tough has a lot to offer on this too. Like you, I let my husband do and have everything he wanted yet I resented it. This book talks a lot about respect and how essential it is.<p>I feel like you do too in the sense that I feel sad for him, I can't feel sorry for him because his life is where it's at due to his choices, but I feel sad because this is someone I love and he has screwed up so much. I also am at a point where I don't want him back, at least not at this point. Where I have done a lot of work on changing, etc. he has done nothing and has more problems now than when he left. That is why I think allowing them to bottom out is so essential, because only then will we know what they are going to be willing to do. <p>I know what you mean about wanting a partner and not someone who cheats and lies to you. It's sort of ironic. I mean the WH leaves because they don't want to deal with stuff and would rather start over with a fantasy, yet as the BS progresses and deals with things they find themselves wanting a new start often at the same time the fog seems to be lifting.<p>Take care of yourself and don't make any quick decisions on anything. Only God knows what will happen so trust in him and keep us posted.<p>K

No believe it or not I'm a Carolina Panthers fan. Live in the town they hold Spring Training. That's almost hard to admit these days but hey, I have to remain loyal. Growing up I liked the Cowboys because my neighbor and best friend(male) liked the Steelers. It made the season much more fun to have that rivalry. I have always had a spot in my heart for Green Bay. It could be because my maiden name was Lynn Dickey.
Of course, what football lovin' Christian isn't a Reggie White fan so Green Bay reeled me in again several years ago. My main passion is Atlanta Braves baseball but I do love the NFL playoffs and the superbowl. I may be in Iowa City over Superbowl weekend so I hope that I'll find a decent party to attend and that I find the Packers in the BIG SHOW!!!<p>As for my marriage, I appreciate your comments and I'm not sure how to feel. I want to convince myself that I don't want him back but I feel like I'm turning my bad on him when he's down. I know I deserve better and would never let things go back the way they were. Of course, since she is introducing him to the realities of paying bills, providing the whole entertainment budget, watching the kids, doing his own laundry, cooking his own meals, etc. He may just be a better husband when all this is over. If say when but I really mean if. I expect his relationship with her will end eventually but only went she gets tired of him being depressed and broke. He left here with around $10,000 in cash or savings and has gone through all that over the past year. He literally didn't have $10 the other day or anyway to get it when the kids needed field trip money. I had written a check because I didn't have cash handy but they needed cash. I know it really bothered him that he had to call me and get permission to get it from my bank account. Poor baby! I hope at least he learns a lesson about how expensive it is to live. He never understood our bills or why it cost so much to live. He even said before that "he had no bills". Wonder how the roof over his head, the food in his stomach, the cable on his big screen TV, gas in his truck, clothes on his back, etc got there!!!!<p>Anyway, enough griping. I can't change him. He needs to change but he has to be responsible for making the change and making it last. I will not rule out a relationship with him one day if he changes. However, I'm not holding my breath either. <p>Good luck in your situation also. A member of my family is suffering in their marriage because of alcohol and I see first hand how much damage the disease can do.<p>Thanks again for talking with me for a while. I truly miss having grown-up conversations.<p>PP

Hi again PP-<p>You sound way too much like me! My WH in addition to being an alcoholic had it way too easy. I did everything when it came to keeping the house and family together. He had the responsibility of an overgrown child. I am not blaming him completely for this, I realize now how we both had ownership and have done my part to remedy it because it really was a problem for both of us. I guess I loved him and knew what a rough childhood he had. I figured if I could just take care of him enough that he would get better - Can you say enabler?<p>The thing is that now in the past year I have dealt with so much and am really content, moving towards happy. He on the other hand is still miserable and has no clue how to manage his money, job,etc. The OW is so young she really doesn't have a clue about real life either so it's a big joke which in time will burn itself out.<p>Like you I have to admit that I really can't rule out a future with him, but it would include him hitting bottom and he's not there yet. I however, have come to the point where I realize that not only can I not change him, but that I can no longer wait around for him to change and get help either. If things change and in the future he would want to try to work things out we'll have to see. I confess that there is a huge part of me that prays for the day that he confesses his mistakes to me and asks for another chance, but I am not holding my breath.<p>It amazes me how that even though this is one of the worst things I have ever experienced, I have learned so much about myself and have grown so much. When he left I was a mess and he was so confident. A year and a ton of disappointments later, I am content and in control and his life is starting to crumble. I think you can relate.<p>I'd love to keep talking to you. Take care of those kids. Sorry to hear from Jackie's post about your little puker! Oh the joys of Motherhood!<p>Take care,
K