Hi friends,<p>Well I haven't had the pleasure of visiting lately. Second semester of school and I'm working hard at getting A's again. For those who are having a hard time healing, school was the lifesaver for me, I'm getting my self esteem back, and making a career change, and I've come a long way.<p>I had to check in and share the news. A brief update, I got to MB a few days after Christmas in 1999, and the first friend I made here was Mitzi. My ex left right on Christmas Day and by New Years, he brought OW to his mom's house. By Valentine's Day 2000 , I was served D papers (and to think, I thought I was getting flowers and he was coming home). I went through $20K in debt and a subsequent bankruptcy. I cried my heart out, and I thought life was horrible. I went through one brief relationship (that famous rebound), and a year long relationship (and I got the joy of being his rebound). Finally, I had it with everyone and returned to college for a new degree.<p>That brings me to today. ExH and OW are NOT getting married. They were together 26 months to my definete knowledge. I suspect it is realistically at least 30 months though. I know it was going on behind my back while we were married.<p>Apparently, while ExH spilled the beans, there was trouble in paradise for many months, and he kept hoping she would change, she was so "nice" in the beginning. Then she was only nice when she needed money, and he supported her and her son. When he wanted his money back when she got money, she refused. To make a long story short, he hates her, he hates her family, he despises her son, and he thinks he had a great marriage but didn't see it when "she" was so "nice" in the beginning.<p>Harley's say most affairs end within 6 months of seeing the light of day (last I heard, I haven't read that stat here in a year). I always suspected some affairs lasted much longer and I'd be the one to have the ex who was the exception to the rule. Well, it's true, to those who are just now coming to MB, it's true. Most relationships, are not going to survive if they were built on deceit and lies. <p>You can't trust someone who cheated on their spouse with you, right? You can't trust a woman who would "lure" you away from your family, right?<p>Well, money, sex, and lies, brought them together, and tore them apart. I wished for this day to come, and it's here.<p>Now, that it is here, I feel guilty for wishing it, but what comes around goes around, and it's his turn to suffer. OW is suffering too. And, guess what,...I DON"T want him back, not by default, not because he screwed up, not for any reason, I don't want him back, but I did want to post and update to all my wonderful friends here, it happened! <p>And to those new people who unfortunately must join us...I would suggest Plan A as long as you can. I gave up after a few months. Many people last 2 years, had I lasted 2 years, I'd have my marriage and H back, but I couldn't put that much into it on my own. I'm just in shock still about this whole thing. <p>Hugs, Dana

Wow...what a story! My H left about 6 months ago and has beenliving with Ow for over a month...he also got her transferred to his office. So not only do they sleep together...they work together too. I am not really sure about plan A or B....we get along fine..unless the OW comes into the conversation. I don't think that he will ever come home. I thought the fog was lifting a few weeks ago....but he snapped out of it the next day. I just wish that I didn't miss my best friend so much.

Feeling so alone,<p>About 6 months after, we had one of those days, the "I'm coming home" and he snapped out of it too. The OW/OP can have a lot of control over WS at times. Also, the fog of that affair can be overwhelming. <p>My exH and OW used to drive to work together IN MY CAR! I had forgotten about that, til you mentioned the transfer.<p>I missed him too, for a long long time. It is a very hard thing to go through, and I'm sad that more people don't honor the marraige vow.<p>Good luck to you,
Dana

Dana!<p>I just saw you post on my post to XMAN! I'm here right now! I still have the same e-mail. Wow this is really a trip - ya, write me. Sounds bizarre, but I guess that's what more typically happens isn't it?<p>I'll mail you. Take care.

Glad to hear it.<p>I know that there is trouble in paradise with my WS XW too. I wish the day would come for it all to end with the OM. I figure that will only happen when she finds another guy to cling too.

What a great story!!<p>i think this stuff is just great!!!!<p>how the fog can really roll in,
i know the feeling, but one has to take
a long hard look and then realize what
the probabilities are, and they are pretty
low usually. . .. <p>I want to read chapter II. . . <p>keep up the chapters. . . <p>tom

Fog<p>The fog comes
on little cat feet.
It sits looking
over harbor and city
on silent haunches
and then moves on.<p>Carl Sandburg

Hey Dana:<p>I'm so sorry to hear this devastating news! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
Glad you are doing well though. In all seriousness, I'm sure it is kinda painful to see him hurt, despite all the pain he has caused you and the girls. As for the OW, I hope she rots in hell.... Write me sometime.<p>Ashley

Dana,<p>I am glad to hear of the outcome.<p>You suggested Plan A'ing as long as you can. From my experience, I think I would suggest the opposite. If I had it to do over again, I would not concern myself with whether I was making disrespectful judgements etc., or even whether I was being fair. I would have only concerned myself with a) ensuring my children's financial well-being and b)keeping them from being exposed to the OW for as long as possible. <p>My H has been gone for three years next week, and hasn't worked in almost two years. He apparently married the OW, and I doubt he will leave her while she is his sole source of support, a fact of which I am sure she takes full advantage. Meanwhile, the kids and I are living in poverty - and I can't really say that my going back to graduate school or finding a job I really like has made much of a difference in my life. Even after I finish, I will never make enough money to support 4 children. It breaks my heart when my kindergartener asks why she is the only one in her class who has to "buy free lunch."<p>Money plays a huge role in most affairs, and the one who has it has the power.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DanaB:
<strong>Harley's say most affairs end within 6 months of seeing the light of day </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi, Dana,
I got to MB a week or so of my WH leaving to move in w/ow, NINE MONTHS AGO TODAY!!! I remember your name from my early days here, but I don't remember if you ever gave advice to me on my threads. I'm sure if you did, it was GOOD advice, borne of True Pain and Heartbreak.<p>It's so good to hear of your healing and becoming whole! It sounds like you are well on your way.<p>I believe Harley's say most A's die a natural death between 6 months and 2 Years of seeing the light of day....so your xH's is only slightly outside of the norm. Funny.....we all tend to "dispute" the stats, put together and studied by learned people who have made a LIFE WORK of knowing these things to be true!! Duh - NOT speaking TO YOU, but to myself.....WHY don't I just believe the "experts" when they tell me stuff? It would save me a whole lot of grief!!<p>God Bless,

Dana...<p>Wow...what a turn of events. I'm glad that your life seems to have found an even plane after the financial problems and I do remember your threads of your year long relationship that sounded from your posts to feel so right but ended on a note of pain that we were all sad to see you go through.<p>Going back and getting a second degree is making us all wish we had more of your focus and determination! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] How do you do it all, with your job and your kids?<p>Speaking of the kids...how are they doing after all of this?...OK I hope. Do not know if you saw the show a few weeks ago on Oprah...but I saw a video tape of it and the interviews she did with the childern of couples that were divorcing...I think it would make most anyone want to sit down and just cry! So, I'm hopeful they are "Hanging In" as well as their Mother has been all these months!<p>And your wisdom is not to be discounted...you have been on a long road since that earthquake shook your world on Christmas day...<p>Interesting though...<p>In your last paragraph...your since of finality is clear in your words...but in reading between the lines I feel it not so sure in your heart.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>And to those new people who unfortunately must join us...I would suggest Plan A as long as you can. I gave up after a few months. Many people last 2 years, had I lasted 2 years, I'd have my marriage and H back, but I couldn't put that much into it on my own. I'm just in shock still about this whole thing.<hr></blockquote><p>So what would you say?...What would you say to everyone that visits this site and most always asks themselves..."What Should I Do?"..."I Need Help and Insight"<p>...What should I do for my plan A...and keep the balance and boundaries necessary so that I am not a DOORMAT?<p>...What should I do since I have no control over "The Fog" and how much and how long should I be willing to endure...to see if it lifts?<p>...and...What would you do / and what should you do, if the fog lifts and my ex does truly sees the terrible mistake they made and there seems to be a small...very small flicker of chance in trying to find a small step...to find a way back?<p>What would you say?<p>MR R<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: mrrlk ]<p>[ February 17, 2002: Message edited by: mrrlk ]</p>

Hey Dana,
Good news I guess. As long as you are doing well. Do you think he will attempt to get back with you??<p>I don't think my x will give up her om/h. She cut all her ties with everyone else, family and friends included so she really doesn't have any where to go.<p>Bob

Dana, <p>e-mail me...please...I lost my e-mail addy's today after I e-mailed you...

Dana,
I was so happy reading your post. But you seem quite sure of not wanting him back in your life.<p>Our time line is similar but I would like him coming back in spite of the fact that he married OW and from a week ago he became a father of a baby boy so, after at least 28 months of their relationship (probably few months more), I do not see any hope here. <p>I am afraid that his A is one of the longest with "happy end" here.<p>Dr W Harley, whom I have a daily contact for about 1.5yrs explained me about those "famous" 2 yrs during most A finish, obviously my XH is not the average.<p>I am glad that at least in some cases "what goes around comes around" is truth. Maybe, maybe some day my ex would come out of that wonderful new life of his.<p>Best wishes

Wow, thanks for sharing your story. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And while it is sad that you lost each other and OW seems like a very sad (user) type of personality, you seem like the only one who landed on your feet! Good for you!<p>Your story is very encouraging and inspiring! Good luck on your degree!

DanaB, Thats great to hear about the Fog lifting and the reality setting in. I'm not appauding the tragedy of your exH but its nice to see that you cannot violate life moral principles and not pay a price for the lies and deception.<p>I'm sure the very thing you told him happened, so yes he'll feel like the biggest idiot. I understand exactly what you're talking about the lure of Sex, money and lying....People don't understand that the WS's are Takers, they aren't interested in giving when it comes to honesty and accountibility, thats why they left in the first place.....<p>So hurray, hurray to you that you saw the Truth that you cannot leave a marriage lying, cheating and sneaking and not face the reality of those actions....stay strong and keep moving forwarded.<p>Thanks for the report, its nice to see we're not lying to our WS's of what they're walking into.

Hi again,<p>For those of you who think their X is having a happy ending, most of the books I have don't give a two year time frame. What I've read gives a more realistic time frame of 10 years, that most of those marriages don't get past 10 years (about 75-80% of them).<p>There is the 20% that do get past that, like my mom's whose going on 15 years now, but I can vouch for the complete unhappiness of them. My mom is so ashamed of her marriage (especially in light of what I've been thru) and they live totally separate lives. They take separate vacations. He wants to retire down south and she could care less if he goes because she's staying here. Other stuff, like she drops him off at the casinos to go gambling by himself and then when he's not where he's supposed to be when she came to pick him up, she just left him there. There is always some sort of big fight going on over there. That's the kind of marriage they have, total disregard, but they are staying married. She is very unhappy and is now unbelievably flirting with my dad (who is still single and VERY happy to be) which is kinda sick. I still love her, but she's off the deep end. I think she needs therapy.<p>So some of you who think they are going off happily ever after, not so. Appearances aren't everything. But still, the best thing for any of us to do is just to go on and not cry about them anymore, ok? We've done the best we could and there is still life past this with the help of God if you ask.<p>Take care you all's, and don't let it eat you up.<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: weirded out ]</p>

Dana,
I am happy to read how together you seem to be in this new life path which you did not choose.<p>After so much pain for you, to see what you understood from day one would happen to XH and OW, your feelings and emotions must be in turmoil.On the one hand, did your family need this when you saw the end result so clearly,and your emotions must be all over the place about this and do you feel any emotions for your X?<p>A bigger question is about your children.
Having had their father leave the marriage ( a loss for them) come to know the OW as important in their father's life and therefore theirs, it is another loss for them. How do they feel?<p>I believe that the adolescent behaviour surrounding the infidelity and fog of affairs, has a big impact on the kids with all the losses,new people in their lives which come to be transitory as well. This is the legacy which will haunts future generations...the throw awaystyle of relationships and people.<p>How can we as a society do anything about all this?

Well hello old friend!1 I am glad (SO GLAD) to hear this wonderful bad news. I guess I can say that I also still wish bad on OW and my ex but basically I hear about them fighting alot.....<p>I too start back up in college and life has had a wonderful twist mostly with praise going to God. My house will be going under a major rehab this spring and my income has increased. <p>Unfortunatly my ex and OW did marry-however he tells everyone that she has only two kids- girls. In truth she also has a son who has suffered much from their affair and runs a way from home quite often but ex never acknowledges him-how sad I often hurt when I think of this poor boy and how he feels. I believe God was looking over me so that we would not have kids because ex is not a man and would not be a good father at all. <p>Tonight I start a divorce recovery group. My divorce was final in June 2001. I feel the need to connect with people that are physically close and know the pain that I have suffered. <p>Dana, you are a wonderful example on how we all should be. I too gave up on Plan A because I could not emotional handle looking at my h at the time. I would literally lose it when I had to meet with him. You did a good job and I am proud of you!!

(((((((Hello friends))))))))<p>I have been gone a few days and I couldn't believe how many replies I got! I figured "who's going to remember me after being gone since college started".<p>I must say I see a few new names and I wish that didn't have to happen. But those who are here, are no doubt, learning a lot and becoming stronger whether they are ready for it or not.<p>To Dearest Ashley = long time no see! I know we exchanged emails for a while, since school started I'm not able to have freetime like I used to. I hope everything is going ok for you, feel free to email me anytime! As for your hopes for OW, I had to laugh, and you know what, at the rate she's going, your wish will come true!<p>Nellie- you returned to grad school? That is awesome! Congrats!I can relate to kids living in poverty. I hate it, it's completely unfair and something should be done to deter men from being able to (and there are women too) walk out on their family and leave them in poverty. They should NOT be allowed to go off to live a comfortable lifestyle. What's this, no job? He has all those kids to support, why doesn't the judge FORCE him? I get very angry when I hear that. Last I read, a LONG time ago, you were dealing with possible discrimination because of having the kids and people not wanting to rent to you. You hung out a long time in Plan A. I give you tons of credit, because I could NOT do it. Not with a full daycare, 3 kids and an extremely vindictive exH. It's so hard to draw the line of what's too soon and what's not as far as time length on Plan A.<p>Lupolady = I appologize for not remembering your name, you obviously are very insightful and I am guessing you started posting while I was on "break" from MB. Thank you for all the great compliments. About the estimate, you're right , it was 6 months to 2 years. And remember when you were a kid and your mom (expert) told you not to do something, and you did it anyway? Seems the best knowledge comes from true life experience! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Mr. Rlk,<p>All this time, when I saw mrrlk, I never figured out that it was "Mr RLK". When I feel finality, I feel finality, that the Affair which brought on all the pain, is now over, I feel like NOW I can truly begin to heal appropriately, and I have to stop chuckling so bad over their demise. But, I will always carry a whole in my heart that exH used to fill and I can't believe he did all those crazy things to me. As for the length of time, again very tough tough concept. Plan A is a killer. For those who are already suffering, you do become a door mat. I believe the Harley's, when he recommends to take anti depressents, I believe if I had those, I'd have hung in a little longer at the very least. I think still, all situations are different, and you have to look at every factor. Is this the first time the WS cheated? (in my case, no). Were there signs this was coming, like a lot of fighting, did you have time to pick up on these signs and miss out on an opportunity to try and save it before it got worse? (in my case, no, I thought we were doing better than ever, but of course, hindsight is priceless, I had no clue exH was unhappy, if I did, I'd have done what I had to, to save the marriage LONG before he cheated), How did the couple split up? was it a mutual seperation and then the one partner meets someone, or did someone just walk out? I think so many factors can change how long one can deal with Plan A. Some people are just stonger emotionally than others too. But, I just know in my case, I didn't try hard enough or long enough after discovery, not that it would have mattered, my ex was terrible to me. <p>Lastly your last question is a killer! What would I say to those who's WS wakes up from the fog and realizes they made a terrible mistake, what would I say? Well, we all know that MOST should eventually wake from the fog, the question is, how long did it take, did the WS ever make an attempt to choose BS over OP, or did they not even think of it, until the Affair was over (would you want to be second choice, as opposed to being CHOSEN over OP?) or also, how many bad things did the WS do after the A. An affair, leaving the spouse, is bad enough, but did they get responsible with support, visitation, did they try to be good to the kids, or did they totally blow them off? My feelings are, if they did it once, they will do it again, and if they destroyed their relations with the kids, do the kids really need to go thru that again? So again, that has to depend on so many factors. <p>I don't want to be a hypocrit and say "go back when you get the chance", because I am not doing it. But in my case, I had an ex who left on a major holiday, served D papers on valentine's day, abandon his kids, then forced them to go to OW, forced me into bankruptcy on purpose, called me while he and OW were having sex, stole $4K of joint tax return money to buy her a ring, I mean, this is just a little bit of it, I could go on for hours. So for me, No thanks, I don't want him back.<p>Betrayed and Desperate = Wow, you talked to the Harley's a lot. Do they take insurnace? see I don't have any so I couldn't (ex cancelled insurance before he left, and the last deposit and left me basically penniless on Christmas day with a mortgage bill due in 5 days). I'm sorry to hear that they married and all. I still suspect OW got pregnant on purpose. Just like Weirded OUT said, don't believe it's all fun and games, the odds are, it's not. But I have a suggestion, how about a new screen name? It's been long enough. Something positive, something motivating. They are married, so try to move past it as best as you can, and believe that you have better coming in the future!<p>BinThere- Cool name! Thanks for the encouragement, I appreciate it [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Everlasting Compassion - Another great name. That is a good point, WS and OP both...are takers. In most cases. I do know a couple WS and I can see how their living situations and what the men put them thru, how they were almost pushed into what happened. When a man controls you to no end, what else do you do, when there is almost literally no way out any other way?<p>Weirded out= thanks for sharing about your mom, I remember we talked of that before. See this makes me believe that even the remarriage stats are totally inaccurate. If 80% of second marriages fail, well the other 20%...how happy are they really?? Write to me girlfriend!<p>Wilbok99 - LONG TIME NO SEE!!! You were here when I first came!!! WOW!Well my kids were forced to go to WS and OW was shoving herself down their throat. They accepted her, but never truly liked her, they were told by dad, deal with her, or don't come see me!! He is brutal. Then her true colors came out and she started spanking, yelling, etc, and well they despised her. THey refused to go over there a year after the first visit, and have only seen dad twice because of it (he punishes them for it, instead of picking them up and taking them out WITHOUT HER). So they hated her (well not the 4 yr old, she's kind of clueless) and they are literally JUMPING UP AND DOWN that OW is gone! he he he he!! But don't get me wrong, they are still a mess from it all. Just not really missing her.<p>White Dove - hello there! how are you? Going back to school is amazing, isn't it?? About H remarrying, that is horrible about the son, do you think men can not really accept a son from another marriage as easily? Or that a boy might not take to another male in the house? I wish I had found a good divorce therapy group here, that sounds like a good opportunity. Thank you for the praise.<p>And lastly, someone asked me what society can do? I don't know. But I do know the laws for divorce should be the same in all the states, and child support should be more strictly enforced. A child should NEVER be forced into poverty lifestyle if they weren't in it before the divorce, and people who go around sleeping with a married person, should be punished. But they aren't, however, I stand firm...what comes around goes around! Don't be vengeful, it will happen on its own to them!<p>HUGS TO YOU ALL!