Hello All,<p>I'm guessing that most who post on a divorced/divorcing board do/did not take divorce lightly. My question is, if you filed, what was the final straw for you?<p>I ask because I originally joined MB looking for support for infidelity in my marriage. I know that many cannot recover from the infidelity and the marriage ends. I feel that that is one issue in my marriage, but perhaps not the major issue.<p>Someone posted (on GQII, I believe) a couple weeks back about "character counts" I bookmarked the website that was posted and just recently had time to really read through it. It spoke about the six pillars of character (Trustworthiness, respect, responsibility, fairness, caring, and citizenship) Unfortunately, it described much of what I feel is lacking in my H. <p>However, fortunately, it gave me a nice framework to describe to him that my issues are not just specific incident related, but really have to do with who he is and how he treats me. You see he is the type that does not see a pattern in his behavior; feels like "today's" incident can be explained away.<p>You can probably guess that much of what I feel in these areas is "colored" by the infidelity, but we are a few years past the last affair and he still, in my eyes, lacks many of these "character" traits.<p>So what was the final straw for you. Was it related to something specific such as an ongoing affair or are there others also, who just grew to not like who their spouses had become. And if so, how did you explain that to them.<p>Enlightened

The final straw was when I realized that he wasn't even listening to what I said. He was putting his own words in the situation, taking everything I said as a downer, EVEN when I was 'praising' him, and turning it all AGAINST me. It was like watching a News Bulletin on CNN, THIS GUY IS NEVER GONNA GET IT.<p>Then he left -- out of anger --- as a control manuever. It didn't work, so he called a counselor, and did the same kinds of things with the counselor.<p>After almost two months (I know that isn't very long) with the counselor, he pulled the same thing on our daughter, turning a situation around to suit his own desires, instead of hearing what she said.<p>My thought was, "What am I doing to my children? They need a father who is responsible enough to acknowledge when he is wrong and make it right, not someone who tears them to smithereens (emotionally) every night when he comes home."<p>So, that was really the bottom line. HE wasn't spending time at home anyway, and he doesn't spend any time with us now. So, the kids and I both feel that we actually got the better end of the deal.<p>Jan

Seekingjoy2,<p>Thanks for your reply. I think that I am also dealing with the "he doesn't get it" I'm the more "high-strung" one in our marriage. He seems to let things just roll off him, but I have found that he is really pretty passive-aggressive. He does little things to "get back at me" but will cry foul when anyone calls him on the carpet.<p>Our kids (ages 8 and 11) are now starting to question him on their own as to his hours and breaking promises, etc. I don't usually get involved...let him answer to them, although I do not like what he does. A few weeks ago, he stayed out all night and didn't return until they were both up and getting ready for school. They met him at the door. He told them he went over his buddie's house and drank too much and didn't want to drive home. <p>This is the first time that I talked to the girls to tell them that what Daddy did was wrong. Families don't work like that... I don't want them to get the impression that it's okay for Dad's/Husband's to stay out all night.<p>It's tough when the kids are affected by their actions. The "mother bear" instinct starts to kick in... We have two girls and I do not want them to have the impression that men are to treat women this way in relationships/marriage.<p>I feel like we (me and the girls) would be better off w/o him. We would then not wonder when he was coming home because we wouldn't be expecting him.<p>Enlightened

It's hard if you have to make the choice -- ultimately, I didn't have to -- he made it for me. He moved out.<p>Passive agressive is a common problem with this type of person. The are so passive that when they do respond -- everything is bound up and they snap. BAD picture there. Watch the girls for affects - they are vulnerable.<p>Hope it goes well with you.<p>Jan

I have a long wild story, but to keep it simple.<p>The last time in October when the County Sheriff had a couple of cars in front of my house and the baby (3) was hiding under the dining room table and the [censored] was in handcuffs and the female sheriff who had been here before looked at me and said... "I know you love him, but is putting the safety of your children in jeopardy worth it?"<p>I shouldn't have let it get that far. <p>Elizabeth

Good evening-had to pipe in to this question. The final straw for me was when H called me at work on my birthday and accused me of harrassing OW with hang up calls and she reported me to the police and telephone company-I was on plan B for 3 months and hadn't done a thing to OW-however-I was getting alot of hang up calls-gee wonder who? Anyways he didn't even say Happy Birthday. Just told me I better stop (like I was the problem). I told him that I was better than that and he replied that he did not think I would do it but if I was to stop it-I told him to come and get the rest of his stuff out of my house and not to call me ever again. By that time it had been 5 months since he walked out and they were both harrassing me daily, I could not put up with it anymore. Thay moved in together that weekend and were married 3 months later.

Thanks to all for your replies.<p>Seekingjoy2-
I am getting concerned for the girls as they are getting old enough to think and question things for themselves and I won't cover for him when he screws up with them. I don't put him down to them, but I will not answer for him when he breaks promises, etc.<p>JTW,
I bet that scene was a big pill to swallow. How did you explain his arrest to the children? This is one of my biggest obstacles...trying to eventually explain why our marriage is ending to the children w/o hurting his "Daddy" image in their eyes.<p>White Dove,
My H also treated me like the "enemy". Found out later that she had concocted many tales (and acts) just to "test" him and see where his "allegiance" lie. I have yet to understand how he could believe that I was the one lying, when these two had made an art of it..???<p>Enlightened

The final straws were:\<p>1) When I was reading a book about Personality Disorders, and what the book described, had actually happened. . . .<p>2) When she sat down and told me i was not real, only EMTs and firefighters are real. . . <p>3) When she told me i was too rich. . . .<p>4) When I came home and asked what could I do to help out for dinner, and she said, "Don't ask me that, just do something." The next night I didn't ask, and lit the gas grill for her to cook our steaks, and she accused me of trying to take over organizing dinner.<p>5) When we left a counseling session, and I asked her if she would return with me, and she said, "No, I won't, and don't ask me those questions because I don't know how to say NO!"<p>and. . . . . . .<p>6) When she told me that my success and talents made her feel bad. . . that was when i knew that she wanted a H like her dad, a man servant to my XMIL, and that i would not be. . . <p>so there was no one cataclysmic event, but you know, the events were weird, very weird, and the irrational thoughts that she spoke, the illogical stuff she did, and still does, boggles my mind. . .<p>oh well, i don't miss the control issues she struggled with, the emotional projection that she used, the passive/aggressive tactics she used, and the BS excuses that she used to justify whatever she wanted, and the blame game. . . . oh, i could go on forever. . . .<p>One example was ridiculous was when i had to travel for business, and so when we discussed it, she said that i shouldn't go because she had put something on the schedule first. . . and whoever puts stuff on the schedule first has priority. . . and being a school teacher with a full year schedule, she had the calendar all filled up for 10 months, starting in September. . .<p>wiftty

WIFTT,<p>WOW! <p>May I ask how long your "ending" process was? From the time you seriously considered divorcing to the time the divorce was actually filed.<p>Although the infidelity was traumatic, I found that I seriously considered divorcing over the last 2-3 years. By that, I mean I was able to detach and be willing to divorce (big factor)and, therefore, really look at the marriage we have. I tried to make a go of it, but even after submitting to some of his requests, I found that much of what he blamed me for was simply not the case (ie. When I took his excuses away, his behavior still did not change)<p>Enlightened

I was very lucky that my oldest was in school. The little one doesn't need much explaination, I just said daddy was sick. They ended up taking him to the place where people go to rest in nice quiet rooms with no drawstrings or shoelaces, so I wasn't lying.<p>It isn't going to be hard for me to explain the marriage ending to the children. If they ask I will tell them the truth and be as gentle as possible. He never was secretive about his bimbette, so they kind of know already. As they get older they will put the pieces together.

The final straws...<p>1. Went to his mother's house and she was drunk and crying. I was sick and due for an operation 5 days later so was stressed. We got home and he asked me something, I snapped at him. He left and went drinking came back at 5ish am. We had a huge fight.
2. I went in for op. When he didn't come see me before work because needed things, I accused him of being with OW. He held it against me.
3. The day after I left hospital and still recovering he went on holiday without me. I asked to go with. He left with no food in the house and me not able to drive because of op.
4. Found out while he was gone that he was looking at internet porn while I was in hospital.<p>I filed the first appointment I could get with an attorney. These were the final things... of course there were other reasons/things, but I decided if I can't count on this man while I'm sick I'd never be able to count on him for support when we have children... Though even after this I withdrew the 'case' as XH wanted to go for counselling, I thought he was sincere and after one session, he went gambling/drinking again, I immediately re-instated divorce proceedings... the day before my birthday...<p>Well thats me....<p>Pantha

I read with interest your situation. Much of the character traits fall fall into the negative bucket once the affair has happened. My wife had been having an affair for a year while i took care of the kids while she was gone "studying". When i saw the emails between the two of them, laughing at me basically for not knowing -- you can guess how i felt. I offered her the chance to reconcile 3 or 4 times, including seeing a therapist once "he" was out of the picture. She said no, but offered me a marriage with him in it as well -- so now we are divorced and the kids will go back and forth between me, her and him (he laso left his wife for her) -- what a mess. They get to pay for her infidelity. Or, was I unreasonable for not wanting a 3rd person in the marriage? It was a tough decision. I think my lawyer said it best "she put her genitalia before the kids".<p>Strangely -- I wish, for the children's sake, we could have held the marriage together. I think the crime is against them.

JTW,<p>Thanks. You're right in that the gentle truth is neccessary. My problem at this point would be the "gentle" part. I don't think I can verbalize why I'm choosing divorce w/o making him seem like an ogre. I'll have to work on my speech.<p>Pantha,<p>...in sickness and in health, huh? There's a reason we say this in our vows; seems he forgot. My H also chose to see OW during certain special need/occasion times and I feel the same way. If I can't count on you during X time how can I count on you during Y time. Be glad you had no children.<p>future,<p>The kids are the most innocent victims aren't they? <p>There is no "right" way to have an affair, but some of the things I lived through and learned, as well as some of what I hear about on these boards amazes me. Laughing at you not knowing is one of them...guess I don't find the humor in that (as I'm sure you didn't either)<p>And you are right about the traits in the negative bucket after an affair. This is one reason I have taken some time (a long time) to sort through and distinguish between what is really character vs. what is "colored" I think I'm pretty much there.

1.H told me about A the same day I told him about lump in my breast, aunt just had her breast removed that week, he just stood there & told me he was sorry for me but wanted out of our marriage.
2.H didnt want to take me to the hospital 45 miles away, finally did after I told him I would drive myself, then chewed me out while at the hospital because he heard a rumor about OW thought I started it.
3.said he wanted our marriage to work & would stay with me, but only if I would do 3 things for him, one was to take me places, never did, spend time with his family, never did, sex anytime he wanted it or anyway, we'll I couldnt take that anymore it was anal sex something MOW did with him, he just finished & didnt even get a bath, just used the bedspread, didnt hug or kiss me or touch me, just got what he wanted & went to sleep, this was the hardest part that I had to tell my lawyer, I couldnt take it anymore no matter how much I loved him or wanted him to stay with me. Im sorry if this sounds too nasty to talk about but I dont want anyone else to go thur this for any person its not worth the shame you will feel later.
4. the night I told him NO to his kind of sex he started seeing MOW before work the very next day, gave him a choice either stop going to work early to see MOW and be a normal H & father or he would have to leave, he came home that night & packed his bags.
5.never called his son on the phone or even emailed him to tell him he loves him or misses him since he left in Jul.

there were lots of small things H did but these are the worst that I will never forget or forgive him for.
M-17 1/2 yrs was a great H til he became a policeman & uniform went to his head.
age -47 H-42
D-3-18-02- now saying I threw him out
C-12yr old son that wants to cut ties with him. 28 yr old son by another M, granddaughter 7
MOW-10 yrs M
C-4,10 yrs
age-29

Enlightened,<p>Since she like to play ignorant, or, gain sympathy for not knowing or being able to ask. . .
and since the house we lived in was a requirement of her job, piece of crap but i digress, i moved out with the money. . . . i wasn't about to pay her to date other people. . . <p>so since she complained about my being rich, i took my marbles and left. . . and then she complained about not being able to live like she was, (never happy, always something to complain about) so she filed. . . but i told her it was her responsibility to file since it was her solution to her problem. . . not my problem. . .<p>oh yeah, and we went to mediation, with a very experienced mediator, . . . and then she couldn't live by her agreement. . . she want more time with the kids, and more money by the time she decided she was sure she wanted a divorce. . .<p>but OM#1 had left, and she basically traded in an athletic executive for a non athletic maintenance person who doesn't like kids who works at the school where she works. . . she told the kids she likes the maintenance men because no one else gives them respect. . . <p>and most of this crap was learned from her family of origin, with a grandmother who was a flaming liberal newspaper reporter in the depression. . .
who always wanted to know who was going to take care of the poor working person, and a set of parents who criticize the rich to make themselves feel better. . . instead of earning their self esteem the old fashion way. . . so do you wonder why they are all school teachers? teaching the same material for 20 years to kids? very little new learning required, its the same stuff year after year, after year. . . high school math and chemistry doesn't change. . . and its all black and white. . .<p>oh, and she would claim she was the better parent because she was home when the kids got home from school. . . and i wasn't since i wasn't there. . . yet she worked 8 am to 3 pm, and 7 pm to 10 pm, monday through saturday, and nights on sunday, and volunteer work on call 24X7. . . .<p>yeah, right

misst,<p>
I'm so sorry that you had to endure this. Two questions if you don't mind:<p>Had the two of you ever discussed ending the marriage before his affair?<p>Why do you think he now says you threw him out?<p>WIFTT,<p>Wild ride, huh? Do you ever wonder how two people meet and eventually marry, only to find themselves at two opposite extremes by the end of the marriage? I know I wonder that about us.<p>We met as teenagers; have been together longer than we've been apart, but we have matured into two very different people with two very different views of the world.<p>Enlightened

Nope, I don't wonder in my case, i did enough personal counseling/analyzing to understand my case completely and thoroughly. . . .<p>my case was a classic case of poor social development during highschool and college, as referenced in Frank Pittman's book, Private Lies. This resulted a whole string of poor decisions with poor reasoning, and knowing something was wrong, but was too blind. . . that is my side, her side is that she does suffer from various personality disorders, and has been misled by her grandmother and her parents. . . on what a good marriage looks like, because they have everything but a good marriage. . . .<p>oh yeah, i forgot to add last night that she accused me of being too independent, she would prefer someone who was much more dependent on her. . . can you spell control? she told me in the beginning that she felt threatened from smart people. And as i watched her, she loves to help people who are down and out, like children, etc, where the implied authority makes her life easy. . .<p>as well as her parents are classic codependents, and don't leave home without each other. . . <p>in discussions, if i disagreed with my XFIL, he would stopped talking to me. . . if you listened to XIL's discussions, they were about the weather and the traffic, and how awful the world has become. . . all of X's family have refused therapy for life, they love the same schedule, do not like new stuff or changes. . . . refuse to change, show signs of oppositional defiance when challenged, or conflict avoidance. . . which ever the situation calls for. . . and raise their self esteem through putting other people down. . .<p>i saw all the signs, but at 25, and being hugely successful at the time, thought i could overcome and change the world. . . . so i thought i could fix her, and as long as she was the focus of the relationship, life ws OK, as soon as I took the focus away. . . . then she would pull the crap. . .<p>enough for me. . .<p>wiftty

For me it was when STBX left for the OW, but it was either he leave this time or ended it, I couldn't take anymore.<p>Till the OW, STBX was a good guy, there were problems but very easy fixable ones if we had bothered to try.

"questions about ending marriage before affair, & why he is saying I threw him out".
I didnt even know he was having A til he told me 1 year later it was all done while on duty as cop H was home when not working, marriage wasnt money problems, or fighting, as far as sex I ask him to take a bath first & H said he only took one in the mornings before work, no work, no bath, & yes no sex sorry but working all day in AL heat with bullet proof vest he didnt smell good. I believe the excitment & thrill of the A with younger woman while working is the reason H did this. I believe he is saying I threw him out is because he doesnt want his new job with the state as parole officer to know what he did on the last job, it was covered up. It will also look bad in court that he just up & left his family for another woman. Our son was here when he dad came home & packed his own stuff up & walked out, our son will be in court he wants to hear his dad tell the truth Im afraid he wont get his wish.

WIFTT,<p>Thanks for the reply. I'm still going through the analysis.<p>Steel,<p>How long has it been? Do you know if he has any regrets?<p>misst,<p>Thanks for answering. On the "she threw me out", lies have a way of coming back to bite the liar [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Enlightened