In my talks with other people that have seperated NEARLY all of them claim that at some point you pretty much have to TOTALLY DISCONNECT yourself from the other person (no calls, no emails, no talking about them - no nothing) to start to be FREE, HEAL and really move on!! Is this true or is this just a way of not facing things or both?<p>Thanks,
Jack

Jack,<p>That is a very good question! I have seen people divorce that didn't have kids and never see or speak to each other again. <p>I have also seen people divorce with kids and hate each other, which only hurts them and their children. <p>If there is such a thing as a "good" divorce, I wished mine would be that. I think that it is quite possible for people to divorce and and be at least civil for the kids sake. Some that I know are still friends and have the holiday's and birthdays together ( a little strange for me but if it works for them then so be it.) <p>I even know a couple that divorced 20 yrs ago get re-married recently!
I don't know about anybody else but I DO want to try to divorce as friends! You never know what the future may hold. One day you might even thank your X-spouse for letting you go so you could find the love of your life. <p>You just don't ever know!<p>
JMHO<p>Regards<p>RN<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: Roughneck ]</p>

IMHO, you can never be friends or "get over it" as long as OP is in the picture. Personally, I would like nothing more than to never see WS or OP again, but my kids are involved. <p>I did manage to go several months without seeing or talking to WS last year and that was the BEST thing I could have done for ME. The WS in alot of cases still wants to hold on. Crazy, but true.<p>If OW were to disappear, I can see being friends with ex in the future even if he had a girlfriend. Anyone besides the OW!

For me, my X is still living with the OW (ever since the affair). We don't have kids.<p>I was a mess the first year. The second year, I actually Plan B'd (to contact - unless we had to). I put him out of mind and took all his pictures, etc. down off the wall. Put away all the marriage stuff. Packed all his stuff and loaded in the gargage (he finally picked it up months later). I just had to STOP caring about him and continuing to talk to him didn't let me do that.<p>Now, in my third year we are "friends"....as much as we can be. We are friendly, civil and even joke around a bit. While I'll always love him as a brother, I'm no in love with him anymore. He's not the person I married. <p>So in my case, we are what I would consider friends....although that's a qualified friendship. I don't want to do things with him, I am not friendly with the OP and I won't socialize with him or her. But if we have to talk, we are on friendly terms. <p>It's possible, but you can't exactly call it friends. But for lack of a better word, friends we are.<p>Aloha,
Ms.O

I am recently divorced, separated almost 1 year, D was final 10/01. We were together 10 years, married 6 of that, no kids. I initiated the D after our marriage deteriorated from unfulfilling to unhappy to unbearable. However, he claims he never saw it coming and fought it to the very end. Needless to say, our D was extremely difficult for both of us, but more so for him. I felt a lot of guilt for his pain and he was all over the board from sad, hurt, furious, belligerant. I tried to help him through it as much as possible, but it seemed every effort I made he wanted to see as an opportunity for us to work it out. I finally ceased all contact with him through the end of the divorce and for a few months after and just kept in touch with his family from time to time to make sure he was ok. <p>We now talk, IM and even sometimes meet for coffee, but I still think he's holding out hope for us to get back together, so I often wonder if I should just go back to no contact, for his sake. I still care about him and want to be a friend to him, but not at the expense of hurting him even more. <p>So, I guess what I'm saying is that if both people come to the same conclusion that they're not in love and don't want to stay in the marriage, then sure I would say continued contact would work. But outside of that, it's probably prolonging the separation withdrawal if one person is still in love with the other or still has strong emotional ties. Just my humble opinion.

For me ... I stopped all communication with him until I really needed to sort out the divorce proceedings, but in that time I refused to 'talk' with him. Now we are divorced and it still hurts ('specially lately), and now and then we will have a phone conversation, but I'm guarded and let him do the talking, try to reveal as little as possible to him about my life at the moment. I am protecting myself in this way. My friends I can trust or they are not my friends, I can't trust my XH, so I guess he isn't my friend. And I hope once all outstanding legal matters are sorted that we will lose contact. Now that is sad, because I thought we'd be together always... I really need a kick to get me out this current state of depression, so sorry if this is a downer... just kinda feelin' that way....<p>Pantha<p>PS I think if there is no OP involved friendship would be easier...

I have never seen a "friendly" divorce. I think what does it in for most people is going through the divorce process. Once you get the lawyers involved, the ugliness starts. I was married 17 years had two children with my ex and I never would have imagined he could be so evil. An awful lot of animosity was cultivated during our 18 month separation. Some of the things he said and did I will never forget. Of course, once the lawyers paraphrased our words, things really got ugly.<p>I think that there is bitterness on both parties...and if there are children involved the situation only worsens. You are tied to that person forever because of the kids. Every little thing is going to be magnified. If the marriage ended because of an affair...forget being friendly...if the marriage ended for other reasons...there is still not much of a chance on being friends. Whatever reason, there is going to be hurt. No one likes to be dumped...<p>When I did counseling, I would find in a divorce there was usually the dumper and the dumpee. The dumper was bitter because he or she blamed their spouse for their unhappiness. The dumpee was bitter because they claimed they never saw it coming, their spouse was betraying them and wouldn't give them a chance. By the time the lawyers took sides, it almost always got nasty.
I know I'm simplifying this, but after seeing hundreds of people, I rarely saw or heard anyone say, "we are friends." Most of the time, there was so much anger and bitterness, I was grateful, I wasn't on the receiving end.<p>Years ago, I used to wonder how two people, who at one time, claimed to love each other, could possibly turn their backs on each other when they had shared a life for decades...but now I know better. I took care of a sick spouse for 10 years. He told me none of that counted when we divorced...and told me I was dead to him and wished he never had our children. Once in court, he yelled out that he hoped I would die. Charming words after 17 years of marriage. Obviously, we aren't friends. Maybe we never were...which opens that whole discussion of whether or not married couples were ever truly friends. I thought so, but now I know we weren't. <p>It's a whole lot easier to blame each other and be bitter than try to put the past behind us and move on. Most of us can't do that.

I started this process very naively. I really thought my H and I could have a "friendly" divorce and even get along afterwards.<p>I think its within me -- I could do this. But he's too hurt, and the things that he's doing are wrecking all those possiblities.<p>And the ones who are hurting from this are my babies. This really sucks.

the kids are being used as weapons, I know how it feels lexxy, but nothing you can do about it except repair the damage when the disaaster is over...hang in there. I think in some weird way spouses who involve kids (in any way) as part of the marital difficulties probably think they are not doing anything wrong.....and that IMO is part of the problem, and revealing, about the lack of fit.

Lexxxy,<p>Your BS XH will never ever have anything to do with you so long as the OM is around in any way, shape or form. Know that. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.<p>In my case, it's my WS XW that's doing all of the child manipulation.<p>Talking as the BS here.<p>Kevin

I'm a BS also but these are some things that I am having problems with here. <p>First, who am I not to love my WS as a friend! <p>Here is what I am getting at. I gave my parents hell for a long, long time and they never turned their back on me and supported me when I needed it most. They didn't have to do this, it is something that they continuously choose to do, it's called UNCONDITIONAL LOVE! <p>Yes, I hated my WS for doing this to me, I love her for a lot more reasons. Yes, I am getting divorced, one, because she is still with OP, two, she won't get the help that she needs, three, because of me! I really don't think after giving her four chances and her not taking advantage of them that I could treat her the way she needs to be treated, even if she did turn over a new leaf!<p>I have three children and I don't want to hurt them anymore than they are now. It takes two to fight but only one to stop it.<p>I am trying very hard to be a better person and part of that starts here! <p>What takes more energy, hating someone or forgiving them? I am more spiritual than religious but in this case I have to say it!<p>WHAT WOULD JESUS DO!<p>JMHO<p>RN

Roughneck...you are a more tolerate person than most. Forgiving someone is one thing, but most often it is the forgetting that impedes a divorced couple from being friends. <p>I respect your spirtitual beliefs, but I have a hard time beleiving in unconditional love. I think a dog or a cat can love its master unconditionally, but I don't think human beings are capable. Parents don't automatically love their kids...all of us have known, heard, or read stories about parents hurting their kids and vice versa. <p>In a perfect world, we would all be friends with our ex spouse, they would love us forever and unconditionally, and our kids wouldn't be touched by the devestation of divorce. We live in a far from perfect world and human beings and their emotional make up is complicated. More times than not, divorced parents put their kids in the middle...not all do, but some do. Enstranged couples are vindictive and say and do things to intentionally hurt. There are enough posts on these boards about love busting to illustrate that point. Is it right? No, but we do it and it leaves its mark. It is easy to say, I love my WS and will take them back. Its a whole lot harder to do it and be happy doing it. <p>I understand that many people here are BS, but not all of us ended a marriage because of an affair. There wasn't another person in my case...just a lot of abuse. In some ways, I felt betrayed too. I gave many years to someone who regarded me as nothing more than his property. Forgive? Yes, I have forgiven, but I can't forget; not when he continually hurts my children with his cruel words. I don't want to be friends with someone who could do that to his own children.

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HappyMac:
<strong>
I understand that many people here are BS, but not all of us ended a marriage because of an affair.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>So true. Though there was an affair in our marriage and I was the WS, this marriage is not ending because of an affair.
It is ending because I met ALL of my hubby's needs after D-day. I ended contact with the OP, and changed everything that he listed in his Divorce Complaint. He changed NADDA and wouldn't even listen to my EN since they were not the same as his.
In the end, after the affair ended... I had basically the same thing that I had before... An unhappy, unfulfilling marriage with a spouse that was MIA.

Hi Laura_Lee.<p>I saw in your post about "owes the other person..." My ex is asking for "money back" claiming she financially gave more to the relationship, NOT the case, but she is asking for some pretty serious money back. The way I look at it either A- I'm dumb and give her money and she feels good OR B-I tell her no way, and she thinks I'm a jerk further validating her leaving me and she feels good. I told her I thought it was "petty" and that both people contribute to a relatonship and that in a break up both lose. Am I wierd? Your thoughts please.

If your ex paid for your law school or medical school, maybe you do owe her something. But it she claims she contributed more toward the house or walked the dog more, well...what do you think? My ex claimed that I deserved nothing after 17 years because I wanted the divorce. He claimed that since he was the husband, everything was his. The sad part is, he truly believes this. Never mind I worked the entire time we were married and took care of him. In his mind, he's the husband...it is all his. <p>I can tell you this, the courts don't like it when couples start nickle and diming things to death...that is the behavior that drives the cost up and makes the two of you bitter and angry.<p>As sterile as it sounds, a divorce is the liquidation of a contract. The court wants to make sure the kids are provided for and that the marital assets are equally distributed. Unfortunately, divorce lawyers make a fortune because most of us aren't friendly and squabble over who gets what and how much.

I have what I would call a non-confrontational relationship w/ my Xw. She may say we are friends. I would have a hard time with say that we were friends. <p>Fact of the matter is I just don't care to have her around. Since my divorce (I filed) I have had the oppertunity to just set back and watch her and I have come to the conclusion that she has a "Mean Gene" floating around in her body. Most of the time it doesn't surface. This is the time I notice that she doesn't have much of anything else to offer. Then the Mean Gene fires up and I (and my daughter) get the meanness from the depths of H#ll. Like PMSx10000. My God, the evil spew that comes from this womans face..<p>I can't wait to get off the phone with her. I can't wait to get away from her proximity. I volenteered to take the Xw and daughter to the airpost last week.. Kissed the daughter gooodbye, and only gave a one arm hug to the X. Not even cheek to cheek contact. <p>I plan just don't want to be around her, but have to for my daughter.<p>To show whats happening,,, I pick the daughter up from school on Weds. afternoon.. She has her hands under her jacket as she approaches my truck. To get in she has to grab the assist handle when I see that she has gone glue on extremely long fake fingernails (not stick on). So long she couldn't even tie her shoe strings. As she gets in the truck I ask what are they'? She responds w/ Daaaa Fingernails. I said "We aren't going to do that anymore are we? She said "I guess not" It isn't me but what do you think mommy is going to say?.. The daughter looked me squarely in the face and said: "I doesn't matter how much mommy yells, I'm use to it.." After that exchange I did have much else to say.. There was no position to take.. the D has already learned to throw up walls to deflict the Xw tieraid.<p>Can we be friends? I think its a matter of interpetation.. in that we both have to know what being a friend is. And that is the hard part..<p>My. .,02$<p>Tex.

Friends........<p>Well, its hard for me to think of my exh as a "friend" I don't think I want a "friend" that has lied, cheated and betrayed my trust.<p>He continues to lie to me... Only wants what is best for himself....<p>I think a friend would show some remorse if they did something that hurt you..... my ex has shown..... ZIPPO remorse<p>I have some very good friends and none of them have done to me what my ex has done.<p>If I HAVE to talk with him, I keep it short and to the point...... I can't believe a word he has to say.<p>I can't say anything about the future... one thing I've learned is...Never say Never !!<p>s

<small>[ August 08, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>

Lexxy - well you have the connection with this WS because he is the father of your children. As you have seen here SNL says inflammatory comments about me Thinker again. I have never used my kids against SNL. SNL did this all by himself. When he was in her state he talked to his Munchkin and said I love you, in hearing range, our one daughter asked me who he was talking to and from there things were pretty bad. SNL sent to our son 16 at that time a sexual e-mail he was to send to his OW, only it ended up at our sons printer, our son read it and hell broke loose. Our son was furious with his dad. Our kids heard their dad say, how he didn't love them, etc. Won't repeat the stuff, it hurts me to see all the anger he had in his voice and actions. SNL has done what he done with the kids with all his actions here. I even told our one daughter that she still loves her dad. This is the person that help created her. She is really upset with her dad, and one day her and I talked and talked. Hopefully, one day she will come around. She is actually a really good young woman, and I had a great time with her tonight. <p>But to get to the point, 2 people divorce will not be friends. I know SNL will just be a person to give me money once in awhile, and basically nothing else. Harleys said the same thing. The only connection we will have is our kids, and the interaction between us will be nothing else. I won't feel like spilling out my guts to him anymore. I won't feel like telling him I am having a bad day. Hell as it goes, with my dads death, SNL supported me during the death and funeral, but now there is nothing. He doesn't go with me to the cemetery, rarely says anything about my dad. I would love a husband to say I can see you are hurting, your dad was a great man.<p>SNL will move on and meet his soulmate. I will be tossed aside, I know it and am trying very hard to accept the fact. He has not been willing to be a husband, and I don't see where he will be any different if we divorce. <p>SNL is obsessed with the computer, and that is all he wants. To be by himself to do whatever he wants when he wants it. He is telling me today, that he is coming back to this house to eat. I said, I am not preparing anything for him, and he is not to be here while I am here. This is PLAN B, and it is going to work according to the Harleys Plan B, not SNL's plan B. Plan A of SNL was nothing like the book, it was SNL's plan A.<p>So don't look to be friends, look to be acquaintances and nothing else. The lawyer I talked to on a trip said the same thing to me. Yeah, they all say the same thing in the beginning and as time goes on it gets less and less contact. The only time we will probably see each other is probably a funeral, or wedding, or main event that includes the kids. Otherwise, there is nothing in common to share. He will have his life and I will have my life. SNL thinks it will be different, he is in a BIG FOGG!<p>You will not be friends, just someone you had a life with, and that is it.