I have been married for 13 years, been with him for about 20. His mother is unlike anyone I have ever met. She is the boss of that family in every way, shape and form. She is also EXTREMELY narcisisstic, to the point of it being an illness. I did not know this when I met her...took me years to figure it all out. Wish I had known all along because it would have saved me years of pain and anguish.<p>Met h when I was 19...a few months later he said he hoped to marry me someday. Shortly thereafter we moved in together with plans to marry. A year later, I was beginning to have doubts about my feelings for him and was beginning to see that his mother was WAY too involved in his life and was very rude to me and I wasn't sure I wanted to spend my life with that. Tried to move back home, but, h (then boyfriend) kind of talked me out of it. About a year later, I ended up getting pregnant. She said I did it deliberately so that he would have to marry me. I can not prove otherwise, but, I would never do such a thing! <p>My parents were very upset at the way she acted toward me and wanted me to move home and have the baby on my own, but, my mom said to try to work it out with my boyfriend for the sake of the baby...but if things didn't get better, they wanted me to come home. My dad died from cancer about 1 1/2 months before my baby was born.<p>My MIL had no sympathy whatsoever for me that I had just lost my dad. Once the baby was born, she hounded me day and night. Acted like I wasn't even remotely related to the baby. She had job applications sitting on my table when I brought him home from the hospital. She barely let me near him. She tried to break me and the father up and let me know that if she suceeded, she was taking the baby away from me. I ended up having to call a lawyer to find out how to handle this woman and if she could truly take the baby from me. (My husband(then boyfriend) was with me during this time and supposedly on my side...he would tell his mom to stop and to leave us alone, but, only half-heartedly. He is very weak when it comes to his mom). All this was going on while I was still grieving over the loss of my dad. I was this little 23 year old girl, unmarried, new baby, just lost a parent....and that B**** was doing this to me and her precious baby boy just kind of passively let it go on pretty much. After speaking to the lawyer, I put my foot down with her and told her she HAD to leave me alone and she would see the baby 2x a month, etc. This did not go over well with her. You do NOT tell this woman what to do!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] She threw a fit and didn't speak to us for about a year. (It was wonderful!!!) During that time, we got married.<p>One day, H ran into her at the store and talked to her a bit....so, they made up and he started bringing our son over to visit and that was how it stayed for a few years and I just stayed away from his family completely. It worked out just fine as far as I was concerned. Soon, I became pregnant with our second child. Somehow, (I really don't quite recall how) my MIL and I slowly started talking to each other on the phone, etc. a little here and there. She seemed to be excited about the new baby on the way and it appeared to me that maybe she realized that it was pointless to continue being hostile toward me, that we were a part of each other's lives and we might as well get along. I NOW realize she was only being nice to me because she wanted to get to the new baby. <p>It would take too long to write it all, so to sum it up, my kids are now 14 and 11. During these years, my inlaws have not let us make any decisions on our own at all. They picked out the house we live in, which just happens to be right down the street from them (They tried to build a house in their backyard for us but by the grace of God it didn't work out becuase it would have been too expensive to run electricity back there...we definitly would not be married right now if we were living in their backyard!). The house we are living in, they basically picked out everything and if I tried to pick a color out, it was not without a terrible argument or being made fun of and rediculed to no end. My inlaws continuously tell my h to not "let" me do things to the house like have pets, let anyone in my family smoke in it, not feed wild animals/birds, plant certain types of flowers/vegetables, on and on and on. Basically, it is their house and I am the caretaker.<p>Also, over the years, I have been the victim of much redicule and abuse by my parents-in-law, especially my MIL. She makes fun of everything about me: my nationality, my hair color, eye color, the fact that I grew up poor, whatever else she can possibly think of. She used to send home these ethnic "jokes" with my h..... about fathers and daughters and brothers and sisters and incest. My h would hand them to me with this big smile on his face saying it was from his mom. He had no concept that this type of "joke" was cruel and inappropriate because he grew up being taught that his parent's nationality is superior to others. Over the years, she continously hurled insults at me but would do so in a way that appeared innocent. For example, she would say "Thank goodness my granddaughter has lovely blonde hair like her dad and not that ugly reddish brown hair" or "I am so glad she has those pretty blue eyes and not green...blue is SO much prettier than green!!!" I would always just let these types of things go and not say anything, just to keep the peace for the sake of the kids.<p>However, a few years ago, everything came to a complete head and I lost it. My h's middle brother had gotten married a few years earlier. The girl he married is a very nice girl and I like her just as much as everyone else, don't get me wrong. But, my inlaws were using her against me. This girl grew up in a rich family, went to private schools, etc. My MIL really rubbed that in my face and took this girl under her wing. Whenever we were all together, she would kiss up to her and be outright rude to me. She kept her picture in her wallet and even made a point of showing me. <p>If the fact that the family was crazy about the new daughter-in-law wasn't bad enough, my h also seemed to fall madly in love with her as well! He developed a huge crush on her. I can't blame the guy or anything. She really is a nice girl and I like her alot myself. If things were different, she and I would of probably been wonderful friends. Anyway, during this time, my h and his family were all being totally rude and neglectful toward me and treating this girl like a princess. My h would go on and on about how his brother wasn't even good enough for that girl, she deserved someone better. He couldn't keep his eyes off of her...he would sit and talk to her about all kinds of stuff, tell her he liked her dress, her purse (I about spit my drink out when he said that one!!!) all kinds of stuff. With me, I would be lucky to get two words out of the guy. He and his family acted like they couldn't stand the sight of me. <p>Christmas was always a problem with the inlaws...my MIL only gave me 2 hours with my family and even then she would sometimes call over at my mom's and ask if we were about done because they were waiting. Well, 2 years ago, it all just finally blew up with me.<p>My h had talked to her on the phone and the two of them had agreed that we would be over at her house at 6:00 pm on Christmas Eve. H told me that we were to be there at 6:00 and that was all I knew about it. We got there at 5 minutes til 6:00. We just got in the door and didn't even have our coats/shoes off and my FIL got in MY face and yelled at me for being late. He said "Next year, you are going to have to think of a new plan for Christmas because I am sick and tired of waiting for you to decide to show up every damned year!!" and he stomped off to the dinner table.<p>I didn't know it at the time, but, what happened was, my MIL set me up to take the blame....she wanted us there to have dinner so she made everyone wait til we got there instead of just eating without us. Every year, we have explained to her that my family has a tight schedule during the holidays and that particular time is the only time we can all see each other. But, she refused to accept that and kept insisting that we be to her house for dinner. So, she made me look like the bad guy and kept everyone waiting but made it look like I was the one that kept everyone waiting. <p>So anyway, I went to the dinner table and said "Look everyone, I am very sorry you all were waiting for us. Please don't wait...just eat without us. We go through this every year...we can just eat the leftovers later ok? I am truly sorry, but, I don't know any other way." My MIL put her arms around my h and said "Well, maybe MY SON would like to eat dinner with HIS FAMILY once in awhile!!" (my h ate dinner over there plenty, let me tell you) I said "Well, I guess YOUR SON will be coming over here by himself next Christmas then!" She didn't say anything after that, but, the rest of the evening, she was very rude and insulting to me. My h just sat there and did nothing, did nothing to defend me as usual. Another Christmas ruined by her having to have everything her way. My sister-in-law later told me that after we left, my brother-in-law really tore into my MIL. But, that should of been my h that did that!<p>When we got home, I was crying and I told my h I had enough and after the holidays I was leaving because this was never going to end and I couldn't take it anymore. He begged me not to and he would do anything for me not to go. <p>I have tried to leave several times over the years and he always begs me not to. Yet, he will not do anything about his parents. Only when I threaten to leave does he SOMEWHAT tell them to stop. Once I stay, they eventually are back in our lives. <p>Well, after this last episode, he told his mom off a little about it and she hasn't spoken to him for a couple of years now....but, once again, it turned out sounding like he was only saying this to her because I was forcing him to or something. He still talks to his dad, but, I can tell that it won't be long now until he is talking to his mom too. Whenever we see his dad around town, I get dirty looks. Same thing if we see any friends of his mom's etc. Living so close by them, it happens often. So far, we have been lucky not to run into his mom yet.<p>In the meantime, he is back to not treating me very well either. Lately he has been a totally cold jerk toward me. He acts like he really doesn't want to be with me, yet when I flat out ask him, he begs me to stay with him. I just don't understand him at all. I have tried and tried and tried to talk to him, he will not communicate with me at all. I have shown him books, including the one from MB. The more I try, the more he pulls away. We had a small bit of counseling when we had our marriage blessed in the church...whenever he is asked a question, he will say he doesn't understand or will say "I don't know". He does that at home too...at the dinner table, me and the kids talk, he just sits there. He tries to avoid things. I don't see how we can fix anything if he won't talk at all about anything.<p>Thoughts about this? I want to divorce but have been trying to just hang on til the kids are grown, but, I don't think I can hang on much longer anymore. My mother passed away 2 years ago and he offered no emotional support whatsoever. He doesn't help with any emotional issues at all...whether it is helping with raising the kids, other men bothering me, etc. He seems to be emotionally dead or something. I could give many more examples, but, the general idea has been layed out I think.<p>Several years ago, I met a man that I almost had an affair with. We still email with each other but nothing has happened and we are trying to keep it that way. As you can imagine, with all of this, it is sometimes very difficult for me to not give in to the temptation. That's why I came to the infidelity board. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, please tell me what you would do...should I just finally give up on this? I really have given every effort I possibly can on this marriage. My h really needs therapy and isn't willing to get it, so there isn't a whole lot I can do.

WSW. <p>I think this is an issue for your husband to deal with completely and w/ your complete support. My father was the same basic way. However, it was time for me to stand up to his "My way or the Highway mentality". When he realized I was picking the highway, he changed (for the most part).. What I'm getting at is its about time for your husband to pick a direction. <p>When I was married I always sided w/ the wife, due to the theory that if the bus went off the road it was the wife and I in the pilot seats. The PILs just gave navagational information. <p>Now if the your MIL is telling your husband go into the rocks, then he doesn't realize what he is about to lose in that the ship will sink. <p>Be aware that if and/or when he decides to go with you the pain of withdraw will be rather large, as he doesn't seem to have ever been on his own.. It will be tough. But it can work.<p>What ever you do, don't go see or talk to the man friend of yours.<p>My .02$<p>Tex.

WS, <p>Hey, sorry to be so late in seeing this post. I hope you're still around! <p>Your story reminds me a lot of the story of Bill and Joan that Schnarch recounts in Passionate Marriage. (The story starts around the end of chapter 1.) Have you read that book?<p>Also have you looked into (1) Relationship Rescue and (2) Self Matters, both by Dr. Phil? And how about Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples by Harville Hendrix, Ph.D.? All four of these books (Passionate MArriage, Relationship Rescue, Self Matters, Getting the Love You Want) may prove very useful and insightful for you and your situation.<p>Also have your tried to find a therapist who is very familiar with Bowen Theory and Bowen Family Therapy (Differentiation of self)? Even if your husband doesn't or won't go with you to therapy, you may still find some things that will help you with yourself and your side of the relationship and to better earn your way out of the marriage (if that is what you choose to do; and it sounds like that is what you are now trying to do.)<p>I hope you will look into and explore these options!!<p>Take Care, Ws (Cleo),<p>Paruil<p>[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Paruil ]</p>

WS,<p>This is just a gut response to your post 'cause I don't have a lot of time. Many here will probably disagree with what I have to say but here it goes anyway.<p>If you really want to save your marriage you're going to have to put your foot down and tell your H that you must move FAR away from his family and work on yourselves. This sounds far too similar to other's stories here. But with a twist. It's his family and not an OP. Otherwise it's divorce time and you and the kids will be gone. Of course if you tell him this you must be prepared for several things. He may choose your inlaws over you. He may agree to it. That will hurt very badly so be ready. Also make a plan on where you would go, what you would do to support yourself and the kids, etc. Just be prepared.
If you resort to a drastic measure such as this think about it long and hard and make absolutely sure you mean it, then follow through immediately!
Do not waffle, do not make idle threats. From now on make it crystal clear to him that if you tell him you're going to do something you will, and then JUST DO IT!
I'm sorry this is harsh but my sister was in the exact situation you are now for 5 years. Her H would never stand up for her or their marriage when it came to his family. She finally got po'd enough she filed div papers and moved her and her son in with a girlfriend of hers more than 100 miles away. Guess what???? Less than six months after that her H had moved up there and found a job. They sold their old house here , close to inlaws, like you, and bought one up there. Div was never filed , her H finally became a man and they have a great marriage. That all transpired in 1995 and they have another child now and are going strong
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Wanna know somethin else???? His parents and family treat her with real respect now.
He defends her and stands up for her when necessary and now defends his own actions as well. He is no longer a WIMP [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Is this called tough love? I don't know. I DO know it worked for her.<p>You deserve to be treated with kindness and respect, we all do, especially when we've earned it like you have.<p>Just some thoughts.<p>Good Luck