I was reading another thread here and something that was written bothers me. Here is the quote "He apparently didn't love me enough to fight for the marriage." Why does the WS (mostly WW's) think that we (BS) should "fight" for our marriage? What is meant by "fight for the marriage."<p>Fist-fighting? I will fight over my family in a second. (Children, mother, father, brothers,sisters, and to protect my spouse's honor) but not over something of my spouse's choosing! <p>If fighting was meant in another term like trying to talk to your spouse and show her and tell her how much you love, need and miss her and how much you don't want to lose this marriage, well, most of us have done that too. <p>My question is if you (WS) want us (BS)to fight for the marriage, then it has to be a fight on both ends and meeting in the middle. Time tables vary from person to person but sooner or later we have to decide either to move on or stay in the misery that is our lives. I will be divorced in 36 days and the best she could muster up at this time is "maybe we should step back and see what is going on and maybe think about getting back together." NOT A CHANCE! What kind of half-hearted crap is that! That is not fighting for your marriage. How can you expect us to fight if you aren't putting out any effort.<p>Sorry but that just struck a nerve and got my blood boiling the more I thought about it! I was asked the same exact thing by my WW and it still bothers me. <p>Just venting folks!<p>RN<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: Roughneck ]</p>

Geeze all I can say is AMEN BROTHER! PREACH IT! But in the beginning the fight is one sided. Unfair as it is it starts with the BS like you said. But the WS has to take up the fight too.

quote from RN:<p>[I was reading another thread here and something that was written bothers me. Here is the quote "He apparently didn't love me enough to fight for the marriage." Why does the WS (mostly WW's) think that we (BS) should "fight" for our marriage? What is meant by "fight for the marriage."]<p>RN, I'm the author of the above quote that got your blood boiling. In my particular case, "fighting for one's marriage" means more than a purchasing "SAA" (after WW confesses an EA), skimming it, then putting it on a shelf never practicing any of the principles. It means not living in complete denial about the problems in the marriage, ie lack of emotional intimacy, lack of teamwork in child-rearing and domestic, support, lack of respect etc. It means more than a belief that because "I take you shopping whenever you want", unquote, "...you should be happy"....<huh?>.<p>The only non-passive action he took was starting an affair of his own. He buried all his grief, loss of self esteem, and anger and dove head first into a love/lust affair with another woman he met on a business trip. It was only after several months when I discovered it that he decided we should separate to "think things through." In retrospect he had apparently already made his decsion to end the marriage. By this time I had emerged from my 'fog', but having been through it myself, I recognized he was in the midst of a deep one. No amount of begging for counseling, talking, reasoning, or shows of affection would penetrate him. I was told the classic affair line "I didn't realize how unhappy I was until I met her...." I was told to 'let go of me" and harrassed every day to file. <p>Lastly, maybe I used the phrase "fighting for our marriage" because of something my ex said to me towards the end.... quote: "Maybe someday I'll regret not fighting harder for our marriage, but today, I don't."<p>And you're right RN, everyone has their time tables and maybe my ex had just had enough heartache and misery and decided it was time to move on. I acknowledge there are many out there who view adultery as reason enough to divorce without any discussion. However, since we are on a MB site and I assume the posters on this forum are familar with the principles, that a refusal to put them into practice could be construed in a way as "not fighting."
JMO<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: Who's Hurting Now ]</p>

Who's Hurting Now,<p>Up until the fourth affair, I had now Idea about Marriage Builders principles. We had went to counceling but didn't countinue going because she said that it was a waste of time and she wasn't going back. I did the best I could with the limited knowledge that I had about affairs at the time. After the fourth affair I found this web site, bought the books and put them into use. <p>I stayed at home for two months before she finally kicked me out. I plan A'ed the whole time I was there. I plan A'ed all the way up to a month ago which I started plan B. <p>I might be completely blind but I feel that I fought hard for our marriage. I feel that I treated her very good and she was my best friend.
I done my domestic duties, teamed up with her on rearing our children, supported her monetarily and emotionally. Well, let's say I tryed!
The only rule that I had to break was the rule of time. I work in the oilfield and I am gone 14 to 28 days at a time to make her and my children a decent living. When I was home I hardly ever left the house. If I did she would interrogate me when I got home. (Bad Conscience I guess!)
After the affairs she would put me through hell with her dependence on me, scared that I would leave her at any time. She would swear that she would never do it again. I would believe her and get back in the same situation as I did before. <p>
I have to say that I am battle weary of fighting for my marriage. I had no fight left in me. I gave up on someone that had given up on me!<p>BTW Who's Hurting Now, I didn't mean any disrespect to you nor am I judging you, It wasn't that you made that comment, it was that my WW made the same comment.<p>I feel for you because I know that you are hurting, and I also know that my WW is hurting but she can't kick the addiction to the OM.
She has made comments about wanting me to come back but says that she just couldn't give up OM.
Sad but true. He has got her hook line and sinker! And she doesn't even realize the pain and heartache that is coming her way.
I do know that they have had one severe fight and I just don't see it going on for much longer but she will chase the fantasy until it completely disappears then she will want to come back.<p>(sitting here shaking my head with a disappointed look on my face....)<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: Roughneck ]<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: Roughneck ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>RN, I'm the author of the above quote that got your blood boiling. In my particular case, "fighting for one's marriage" means more than a purchasing "SAA" (after WW confesses an EA), skimming it, then putting it on a shelf never practicing any of the principles. It means not living in complete denial about the problems in the marriage, ie lack of emotional intimacy, lack of teamwork in child-rearing and domestic, support, lack of respect etc.<hr></blockquote><p>Who's Hurting Now:<p>Are you saying that your xH purchased and skimmed over 'SAA'? If so then he was very much aware of the concept of the WS beign 'in a fog' and that it was possible for you to come out of it by his application of plan A and avoiding LB's. <p>I guess it's safe to say that he didn't love you enough to even 'try' the principles out before leaving you for OW. I also get the feeling that he may have had his own A's before your A without you even realizing it. I say this because if he went on business trips he had plenty of opportunities to meet other women and sure enough, lo and behold he meets his OW on a business trip.<p>Even if he beleived that MB principles are a bunch of crap and that the M was over, he should have had the honesty of telling it to your face and move on with his life. The OW should have entered his life after this and not during a separation insisted by him that was only a sham so that he could carry out his own A.<p>In my case, like Roughnecks, even though I was not aware of the MB principles at the time of my xW's multiple A's, I realized that she was a sexual addict who could not control her addiction and pleaded with her to let me help her get the help she needed. I loved her enough to realize that one of our M vows was 'in sickness and in health...' and that it was my duty as her H to help her heal. Sure it hurt my self esteem as a man and made me angry and sad to see what she had become, but I took my vows seriously. But a person can only get well if she decides that she needs help to do it and in the case of my xW she not only not acknowledged that what she was doing was bad for her, bad for me, bad for our M but also bad for our daughters as well, but that NOBODY was going to take her away from her lovers and the sexual pleasures they gave her. So at that point I decided that for the wellbeign of our daughters and myself, I was going to divorce her. I also got social services involved in our case (by her own admission, the men she was having sex with had prison records) and the case worker filed a report that was given to family court during the custody hearings and the judge decided that in the best interests of our daughters that I should be the custodial parent. The impact of this custody decision brought her back to reality and the seriousness of the situation where she now was without a family, M, and that she would have to work not only to support herself but to also pay child support to our daughters. And a short time after our divorce, she told me that she took my advice and was seeing a therapist to deal with her sexual addiction. <p>It's too bad that I had to take the painful decision to divorce her before things started getting better for all of us. But at least I can look at myself in the mirror, and in my daughters eyes, and say that I did not jettison my M as a knee jerk reaction to my xW's infidelities due to her sexual addiction.<p>Joe<p>[ April 07, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

I see "fighting for the marriage" as making the relationship between husband & wife the number one priority in life.<p>My H criticized me in front of friends angrily saying "she cares more about the marriage, than her job"!! Thankfully my friend said "Yeah,?" because it made sense to her that I would. H was in deep with OW at the time, (though I did not want to believe PA was involved, had it confirmed to me by others who knew, later on.)<p>For me, I could find a new job, we could find another place to live etc, all that was unimportant, replaceable if only he would've given me any SIGN of any effort to help our relationship. I wanted to really know WHAT went wrong ( I still dont). All he would ever say is "something snapped". I know its a mid life crisis for him. But he will not acknowledge any feelings, even if its confusion etc in general on his part. To me our marriage is the most important thing. Not to him it seems. I dont know if he's capable of it. But when he realizes it for himself or I say something, he wears it like a badge. <p>He filed & later dismissed D, he is at home but still says he will move out 'eventually'. We do not do things together ever. Were barely speaking til recently, when he's been sick & feeling more needy. And I have felt more content, but I shouldn't cause I dont want to fall back into the codependant thing, where my needs are not being met. WAH! I am so sad & confused these days. I wish I could just shake him, and he would allow himself to love ME again. I get the feeling OW stuff is over (I Hope). If I found out otherwise it would crush whatever spirit I have left.<p>But anyway, he has not shown me that he is willing to "fight for the marriage" at all. To me it means making our relationship a priority & rejecting other things that come along. That we should be talking, spending time together, acknowledge & FEEL feelings and express them to the other without being yelled at & rejected. I feel so much he hides all emotion from me & doesn't know himself what he wants. Its hard being in limbo and for how long do I live this way?

I see fighting for the marriage not as putting it above everything else in the world but at least valuing it and your spouse enough to care about its health and survival. I think fighting for it is trying to meet en's even when it's hard for you. I see it as fighting complacency which leads to dissatisfaction--I see it as actually making an effort.<p>And I agree with Jerry, it has to be a two-party fight. Otherwise, you're just getting yourself winded. Fighting for it, to me, means that both people care enough to work on it.<p>Giving the old marriage a little CPR instead of watching it die a lonely, gasping death alone in a cold, empty, sterile room.<p>RN, I'm sorry for your pain.

I've said those same words about my ex husband, Roughneck. Let me explain:<p>When I came here in 1999, I had just ended a short affair the summer before, and needed support. <p>I told my (then)H about this place, and he read my stuff, but thought Plan A sounded doormatty and stupid, so he didn't do it. In fact, what he did instead was begin a series of flirtations and ultimately affairs - to pay me back sorta.<p>Never mind that he'd had several affairs in the 80's, and I fought like hell for our marriage. When I effed up and had my affair, I told him straight out the day I slept with the OM (and that was the only time I slept with him because I wanted to die after). <p>I wanted to die, and luckily for me, he wanted to help that come true, and I don't say that lightly. He HATED ME.<p>Fast forward to after I filed for divorce, and I, like Who's Hurting Now, got involved with someone else (some call it an affair because our divorces were not yet final). Eventually, I moved away to live with the new man, and I married him. THEN, and ONLY THEN, did my ex-H realize what he'd lost, and told me FLAT OUT that he should have fought for me. <p>So, what does it mean?<p>Think about it for a sec... what comes to mind?... for me, what it meant was this: LOVE ME, CHERISH ME, TELL ME I'M WORTH THE DIFFICULTY... <p>I may not be clear on what it is, but I sure as heck can tell you what it isn't:

• Don't have affairs to get me back<p>Don't slap me<p>Don't call me a whore and tell me I am a horrible mother over and over again<p>Don't stalk me, chase me, try to run over me with the car<p>Don't show me how you flirted with someone else<p>Don't carry your big Bible and tell me I'm going to hell

<p>That's just a short list... but you get the idea, right?<p>All I really wanted was for my (then)H to love me... I stopped the affair immediately, I wanted to die, I went to counseling, I came here... <p>He did cursory visits here, and to the counselor... and stood over me screaming as I lay in the fetal position on the floor ... <p>That's not fighting for the marriage. Is it?