Hi, although this is my first post here, I've read several of Dr. H's books and been reading the MB site for over a year. Sadly, it looks like my wife and I are headed for divorce after 15 months of separation - 9 ½ yrs of M (no kids). Some background - My wife started an A with a coworker a year ago December. She told me about it immediately and moved out within weeks - said that we had just become roommates and had "feelings" for OM. I know that I took her emotional needs and her respect, trust & love for granted. Over these months we've done counseling, but it always depended on WS committing to working on the marriage, otherwise counseling was pointless. We had a few trial runs at reconciliation, but WS went back to OM. OM is big into pressure. <p>About 2 weeks ago, although we knew it wouldn't be easy, WS finally said that she had decided to work on our M! The reasons she gave: OM wasn't emotionally mature - wasn't dealing w/ his own failed marriage, 4 kids and wife back in Canada - way too much baggage; WS knew what she was doing was wrong & hurtful - huge conflict w/ her inner values, ethics & spirituality; WS couldn't move on w/o first trying to save our M; WS said the A was like an addictive drug (lots & lots of compulsive/addictive history in her family). I've seen this analogy before and it truly fits. <p>So this was a huge step - I knew just one of many, but a huge step nonetheless. WS told OM she was going to work on our M and get into intense counseling. We are still living apart, but started to date, get together to do more things, call each other several times a day, talk about recovery, read MB recovery site - plan for the future! Positive signs, at times I thought too positive too fast, but I was very encouraged. We both said that it felt weird and WS said she didn't feel attracted to me. Give it some time I thought - we just started. Tuesday WS was working out at her health club and ran into OM and said "I can help you get your spare car back from my apartment to your townhouse." So one thing leads to another and WS is telling OM how much she misses him, yada yada. Now WS told me last night it is just too difficult, too painful, and too much has been damaged for us to repair - and wants to proceed w/ a D (but wants to remain best friends). WS gave me the "its' not you, its' me" routine. I told her I'd do a strict Plan B for a few months, but that I won't wait forever and if we D, I'd have nothing to do w/ her and OM (or the next OM) - ever. <p>If WS didn't still act and say that she loved me, or if I didn't love her, or have faith & hope for the future, I might be able to let go. I'm so tired of hearing all the people who successfully get through this and find greater love, deeper affection and soul bonding than ever before. I know I can't make WS do something she won't - sometimes I think WS and OM just deserve each other. So will a strict Plan B work or do I just throw in the towel? Is this just a relapse? <p>Help - scared as hell, feeling very alone w/ lots of guilt - reliving my own mistakes - worse shame than when the affair first started. I'm getting good support and counseling, but any insight is much appreciated! > Karl

Advice:<p>I lived with OCDisorder, and if she really has a history of it with no kids, go for the divorce and find yourself a normal person. . . .<p>sorry, if it wasn't this addiction, it would be another addiction, and I would go straight to the divorce, that will let her know that there is no fence sitting on this. . . . .<p>after all i have read, without kids, take you rumps now, and find a better person. . .

Hi Karl in MN.<p>Have you done a plan A? I ask you this because it is more for YOUR personal benefit than your W's and you'll be great H to her of another woman in the future. The benefits of applying MB principles go beyond M and into other human relationships in your work and personal life.<p>I would also like to humbly suggest that you start taking care of yourself during this difficult period in your life. How? Go to the theatre, go to a game, volunteer for a worthy cause, enroll in some life enhancing classes, take dancing lessons, etc. Start living your life again as though she was no longer a part of it because that may turn out to be the case IF she decides go ahead with the divorce. By doing this you will be able to withstand the emotional rollercoaster ride that many BS experience during the 'in the fog' and 'withdrawl' phases of the A while keeping your W's Love Bank withdrawls to a minimum AND if you become divorced you'll be way ahead in your recovery from your marital breakup. <p>And also remember that in many cases when a BS starts living his/her life again, the WS takes notice and starts to realize that BS is not so dependent on her/him and that if they divorce, that BS is more than capable of not only surviving divorce but thriving from the experience. This in many cases can be enough of a wake up call to the WS that the BS will no longer be there for her/him if WS pushes things beyond the breaking point, and this in turn starts to make them want the BS and M.<p>Funny thing about many a WS is that even though she/he enjoys beign with OP and considers a return to the M a return to slavery to a S that has ignored her/his most important EN's, they still want the BS to be there in case the A doesn't work out for them. Just read at some of the stories in the forum of a WS wants to come back to BS and work on the M because the BS has decided that he/she has had enough and has decided to end the M by filing for divorce.<p>It's almost like when you are single and dating. The more needy you appear to your potential partner, the more repulsed she'll be. And the less needy and independent you are of her, the more attractive you'll be to her. <p>Good luck and God bless.<p>Joe<p>[ April 10, 2002: Message edited by: justanotherjoe ]</p>

Thanks for the insight WhenIfindthetime. As much as I have loved WS's family, the dynamic is really huge here - so many alcoholics, so much mental illness, fanatics of this or that, etc. WS is very intelligent, capable and is Psyche major graduate - so I know this works against her. WS believes she can self diagnose. My support net tells me that I'm a good catch - just can't quite give up yet. Thanks.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>"My support net tells me that I'm a good catch - just can't quite give up yet. Thanks."<hr></blockquote><p>That's the spirit Karl!<p>Joe

justanotherjoe - Plan A was slow in developing - it was 5 months into the A before I told my family and 7 months before I told my best friends. I lived a hermit life last winter. Seven months into the A we sold the big dream house purchased 5 months before A and I bought my own house - a big shock to WS who always handled all of our business stuff. Last fall I really came out of the shell and got together w/ friends and family often to talk about this and other important life stuff. The support just blew me away - while most were shock at WS behavior, the more I shared the better I felt. Honestly, my work suffered and only in the last few months have I felt that I've been back on track. I told WS in Jan. 02 that I thought this was going to be a great year, either WS and I would start dating, working on our M, rekindle our love, or I'd start dating (ugh - a bit scary) and having fun. I figured I couldn't lose, but I realize that I let myself back on the emotional rollercoaster recently. Thanks - god bless you. > Karl

that's what i said too, a long time ago,
i used alot of denial reasoning. . . <p>however, as my counselor said to me,
"i'm concerned that you will stay in the relationship just so you don't perceive that you have failed . . . "<p>wiftty

Karl,I'm sorry you're going through this. <p>Interesting how she had an "awakening" from the fog,then drifted back into the deception. If she came out once, I can't see how she can keep on for long with OM with these pins poking at her conscience. <p>Have you considered going to your pastor and have her brought to accountability for what's going on? He could be a big support to you, toward her finding her moral compass again, encouraging her to break off permanently with OM, and working toward healing and restoration of your marriage. This is the church's Biblical responsibility.

Well, if you've been reading the MB material then you know that ANY contact with the OP sends the WS right back in to withdrawal.<p>It sounds lke your WW knows that she has a good thing, she just can't say no to OP. In that case, Plan B may be in order. It would force her to get all her needs met by the OP - which she has already admitted that he can't meet all her EN's -otherwise she wouldn't need you as a best friend. <p>However, only go to Plan B if you can handle it and know that the next step is divorce - no turning back.<p>You can also Plan A while you are waiting for the A to die. Which it may since WW already left OP once. And more people know and you've grown as a person.<p>It's up to you. It sounds like you are doing all the right things - just remember, you can only control yourself- and not WW, so work on you and see wher eit takes you. K

Renae - the church is a touchy thing. One of the ½ dozen things that started to push us apart was the time commitment that both WS and I made at church - we are rehabbing a building into a new church (I was one of the planning, design & const. leaders) and WS was a lay board & vice-moderator leader. Huge time killers. Our pastor's style is very laid-back, not in your face, and we did meet together and separately w/ him. WS said she got a lot out of it. Until the A, WS always had a much deeper sense of spirituality than I. Now I feel a deeper connection w/ the church. As we talked about reconciliation, WS said she might never be able to go back to our church - cong. is too small and everyone is such good friends. I know that no one has or will (I think) judge her, but she doesn't believe it. > Karl

G is in C - Thanks for the encouragement! I think my previous attempts at Plans A & B were unsuccessful due to my own fear that WS would just go quicker to OP's arms and quicker to D, but w/ time my own self confidence has grown. Everything I believe tells me that the A will die eventually - it just may take years - and I won't waste my life waiting. It may also kill WS's spirit and self worth in the process - so much for the addiction to the A. > Karl