Frank,<p>As you see by my signature line, I've been where you are going. My ex and I "recovered" from his first affair for 5 years (at least I think he was faithful during that time) - and then #2 spelled d-i-v-o-r-c-e.<p>I have concerns that your WS didn't move toward you as much as she was dumped by her OM (sorry to say)- that is a dangerous scenario as others have hinted to you.<p>Also, your vow to "never bring it up again" is not realistic. First of all, for YOU to heal, you need to talk about it until it doesn't have emotional impact on you (not rant and rave - but talk)...if that takes 10 times or 1000 doesn't matter - it will always exist between you if it is a taboo subject. Recovering alcoholics don't keep their struggle with alcohol a taboo subject in recovery...Recovering affairs cannot either.<p>Secondly, the first (and I do mean first) time anything seems odd in your WS behavior or doesn't quite add up (she's late, $$ is missing, etc) - it will be the first thing you think of - she might be cheating again. You can't help but think it. It will always be there. That's what people mean by forgiving but not forgetting...it's always there. And your wife needs to understand that - it's part of the deal with reconciliation.<p>Your M has baggage it didn't have before.<p>Good luck...but be VERY careful.

Frank, I agree with Lisa, as much as you want this to go away, you and your W need to deal with what happened. I am glad she is reading and going to councling but you will need to talk, talk, and talk about the A, and how each of you feel, You can sweep this under the rug. Do this without LB but talk about it no matter how hard it is, it will help rebuild the foundation of your marriage, right now you the foundation of your marriage has been hit by a missle and is weak, start working on rebuilding it so that it is stonger than ever.
I am very, very happy for both of you.
Take care,
Dave

Frank-<p>I have to agree with what the others say. While it is time to celebrate, you are not in the clear, and in a way maybe will never be (are any marriages?)<p>I know you don't want things to get to a point in your marriage again where your WS has another affair (with the same OM or another.) While you want to sigh with relief now after all your hard work. Don't let things fall back into their old routines as they so easily could. Keep working hard always.<p>Please keep us updated. Good luck to you.
I hope my marriage can get to the point where you are even though there is a long way to go for you and me.<p>-Heartbroken but hopeful

Hi again,<p>Glad to hear that things look better for you now....BUT.<p>On*My*Own and I had similar experiences. After affair #1 we reconciled and even though I did not know it at the time I had inadvertantly plan A'd him. But, like you, I promised never to talk about the A....HUGE MISTAKE. Our marraiage never truely healed. He never had to face the reality of what he had done. What it ended up being was a 4 year glorifying of the OW and he eventually left me for her again after 4 years. Needless to say she dumped him after 10 months of having him. <p>What it all boils down to is that we never reconciled we chose to ignore and it was fatal to our marriage.<p>I hope you and your wife do work things out. But WORK is the key word. <p>Take Care

To all: Thanks for your concern and words of warning.<p>We don't have much time for ourselves right now because we both are working somewhat different shifts and W is very tired when she gets home from work. We are, however, making plans to have some time for ourselves (ie no kids) so we can talk and have some quality time together.<p>When we have had some time to talk (usually in the morning before we wake the kids for school), we have begun to talk about the A and the OM. I have let my W bring up the subject but once she has, we talk about it -- I am honest with her about the subject and what I feel (hurt, anger, disappointment, etc). I believe she is honest too. I also feel that she is sincere about not wanting to contact OM nor pursue the OM.<p>She has come to the realization that OM is not going to change for her (nor anyone else). W also has come to the realization that she can't make anyone change (including me!). [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>W has realized that she should let me know immediately if something bothers her or if she needs/wants something (ie attention, time together, help with house or kids, etc) rather than putting up with a situation and resenting me for it.<p>W has said that she still loves OM but that she WANTS our M to work and wants to try. That's is all I've wanted -- to just try and work at it. We are now implementing the suggestions in HNHN and SAA. <p>I'm not too concerned (yet) that W loves OM -- I think (maybe fooling myself) that she was needing and thought that he could fulfill her. I KNOW W loved me before and that she can love me again but it will take time and effort (in that we must spend time together as a family and as a couple). <p>Finally, if a couple/few years have passed and W still doesn't love me, then I may have to change but that is sooo far down the line I'm not really pondering this (too much) since I'm still focusing on today rather than several years from now.<p>
Thanks again.
Take care and God Bless,<p>Frank1000<p>
We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.<p> -- Anais Nin

"Finally, if a couple/few years have passed and W still doesn't love me, then I may have to change but that is sooo far down the line I'm not really pondering this (too much) since I'm still focusing on today rather than several years from now."<p>What do you mean that you may have to change? You will have to change. Your marriage had problems. You will need to change to meet your wife EN.<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: hubby ]</p>

Frank-<p>Maybe you said already but what was it for your wife that caused the affair to die a natural death? What happened between them? She just "woke up" or OM dumped her or what?<p>Don't forget that according to MB that the WS will feel extreme feelings of loss/depression for approx. 3 months when cutting out OM completely.<p>good luck, keep us posted.<p>P.S. When did the affair start? When was the discovery date? How long did you plan A for?

I think several things caused my wife to emerge from the fog...<p>1. W has known OM for a while -- they were going out when I met her in 1986. W knows what OM is all about but it required her to spend time with him before she re-realized that he can't commit to a relationship.<p>2. W asked OM to call once a week and to tell her he loves her. OM never called nor expressed feelings for her. <p>From what I know, OM has basically squander anything he has had in his life. In his early 20's, he owned (outright!) several fastfood franchises but he squandered them (I don't know how -- I have an idea but won't comment since I don't know). He has squandered the relationships he has had (which are several). The women he has been involved with were basically good people but he ruined those relationships because he is about himself -- he can't commit to a relationship nor be monogamous. <p>He says that he doesn't need to explain himself to anyone except for his 12 yr old S but even then he doesn't make time for his S.<p>From what I know, OM never really wanted her; W pursued him. (also PA started in 7/01 and continued until 05/02 when W moved back.) So I would not say that OM dumped her; he never wanted her nor acknowledge their relationship to others.<p>I guess W figured that given time OM would come around but he is what is has alway been -- someone who is not reliable, nor responsible nor wants a one-on-one relationship. OM is also not trustworthy since he can't be honest -- with W, myself (I talked to him in Feb 02 and OM told me nothing was going on and that he didn't know anything about what W & I were going thru which was a total lie) nor anyone else (maybe even himself -- he tells my W that he loves her back in 7/02 but when put on the spot by my W, OM didn't say anything...)<p>So basically, W had to find out for herself (again?) what OM is about and has come to the conclusion that he is not what she truly wants. She says that I am what she wants but I guess time will tell.<p>Yes, she is suffering some depressions and withdrawls from OM but she seems commited and sincere in not contacting OM.<p>Right now I'm taking it day by day.<p>Finally, for Hubby -- I have changed. What I meant is that if in a year or two, W doesn't love me (still) then I may have to change and move on...but I will deal with that if & when the time comes.<p>Take care and God Bless<p>Frank1000

I've been busy at work (and at home) so I haven't had a chance to post lately...<p>
Everything seems to be going very well for us. W called OM a week or so ago (Sun 19 May) and told him it was over. Actually, W called him the day before and then called again on Sun but he was screening her calls so on Sun W left a voice mail at OM work number. I feel it's over even though I wasn't around when she made these calls.<p>Right now I am continuing doing a lot of stuff around the house while we prepare to move in a couple of weeks and to give W time/space to think about thinks (ie us) and to focus on her job. <p>I know it sounds simplistic but we do talk about the A and ourselves -- how we are feeling, what we want/need, etc when we have an opportunity. <p>We are also still seeing the counsoler weekly. The sessions are helping; the sessions are giving W (and myself) some good ideas/encouragement to how we need to change and relate to each other. They have certainly helped W see OM in a different light.<p>I'm hopeful and believe we will succeed but I'm just taking everything day by day and still working on myself (think Plan A) since I can only control myself. I am focused on us (couple and family) though but we are making plans for our future together. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care and God Bless<p>Frank1000<p>
Don't be fools; be wise; make the most of every opportunity you have for doing good.<p> -- Ephesians 5:16

To all<p>I haven't posted in about a month because I've been really busy at work (too busy to come to this site and check up on things) plus really busy at home looking for a new house and arranging the financing etc.<p>Well we closed on a brand spanking new house last week and completely moved into it with 48 hours.<p>Anyway, W & I are continuing the weekly counsuling sessions and they are helping. We are also doing a lot of talking about our hopes, needs, and future together -- probably things we needed to discuss earlier.<p>We also talk about the A but I KNOW that W, if not over OM, she at least doesn't want to be with him but with me (but I don't think that this automatically means we will stay together) but it does give me encouragement that W is sincere and wants our marriage to succeed. I believe that too and again all I ever wanted was for W to come back AND for us to try to work things out; if we fail at least we made a valiant effort and I will have no regrets nor remorse.<p>With that being said, we are both happy and are not backsliding into old habits. We are striving to be good for each other and to fulfill each other's ENs.<p>W has read SAA and we talk (when we have the time) about what the book says and how we should "do" what the books recommends.<p>Finally, I realize (now) that a marriage is a constant work in progress and that it will never be truly completed.<p>Also, I have learned much and grown even more from this experience -- painful as it was, I now realize that if this should ever happen again that I will survive, grow, move on and can love again.<p>Thanks again for all the advice and prayers and hope to hear from you all (especially Dave).<p>God Bless
Frank1000