Please help me understand what I should expect from my STBXH. I have exclusive occupancy of the marital home, but he operates his business from garages on the property and is there daily.
He now has the kids three overnights per week (staying at his parents), but still expects me to send clean clothes and he returns dirty clothes. He also expects me to drive the children to daycare after his overnights. Is this normal? In my mind, he's not meeting the children's needs. I told him I can no longer enable him, but he continues this behavior as if I should do these things. Please respond.

I'm not a guy (and boy is my boyfriend glad [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ), but I can give some advice.<p>It's called BOUNDARIES. And yes, if you do things for him after you've told him no, you are enabling him. When the children are in his care, then transportation, laundry, clothing, feeding, etc. are ALL his responsibility unless you specifically agree to help. They are not "on vacation" at his house 3 nights a week...they are living with him and you need to require that he step up to the plate.<p>Boundaries require disengaging old marriage habits of picking up the slack for your spouse.<p>For instance, you can eliminate the laundry issue by having your kids keep clothing at his house too. That way, the only "shared clothing" is what they are wearing when they go to him. That way you only have to deal with one outfit.<p>See? Set boundaries and don't back down from them. It's kind of a pain in the beginning, but if you are very strict and strait forward, you can train an "ex" and then you won't have to fight it after a while.<p>Good Luck<p>Lisa

He has ignored my boundaries to date. I have sent clothes, but he won't put them in them.
Does anyone have a guide on this stuff?

Newly, I will share our arrangement with you:<p>We have joint 50/50 custody, we have equal number of overnights by law but I typically have them much more. Each of us washes there clothes from when they have an overnight with us. Each of us provides meals when we have them. Each of us is responsible for driving our D to preschool in the morning after the overnight. When the kids are at my house for an overnight, she is resonsible for driving them to my house, when she has them for an overnight, I am responsbile for driving them there.<p>Lisa is right on with the boundries.. it seems the WS typically doesn't live up to their responsibilites (not all the time), but since the A is "all about them" other things seem to come second, I know that is my case. Be sure to set specific boundries and don't allow him to break them.<p>Take care,
Dave

With mine, it's no affair, just continued irresponsibility. Severe neglect of responsibility. He continues to refuse to discuss anything. A true conflict avoider. If he ignores it, then its not a problem. My children deserve better than this. Living with his parent's means that he's in his ideal situation. They've always enabled him and will continue to do so. He still doesn't need to shop, cook, clean or do laundry. I'm so disgusted and disappointed by his behavior. I think of him as sick, but want better for my girls.

Very interesting. My XH also lives with his parents. The kids have clothes and shoes there that stay there. When he has the kids for a weekend, they ALWAYS come home in the exact clothes they wore over there, and they are clean. However, I expect this to change once he moves out of his parents' house. I know he is not the one doing the laundry. ;}<p>He does not have weeknight overnights any longer, but when he did, I sent my D a clean outfit for preschool the next day. Her outfit from the day before came back to me clean, and my S was sent to school in the same uniform from the day before, clean as well. His overnight was from the time he got out of work on Wednesday until school started Thursday morning, so he was responsible for transportation to school and daycare. This was also done for him by his mother.<p>If she wasn't there for him, I'm pretty sure I'd get back dirty clothes, and have to pick them up (or he'd drop them off before he went to work) and take them to school before I went to work. <p>The problem seems to be prevalent with men who expect their wife to assume their mother's role, and have never had to take care of themself.<p>Not all men are like that. There are some GREAT DADS on this board. :}<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Princess Buttercup ]</p>

Newly,<p>Boundaries are about setting a point of view...(I'm an English teacher so watch out) - there is the life of you with your children. Draw a box around it...you only do and control and deal with what is in the box. Then, there is the life of your stbxh with your children. It also has a box around it...and anything that goes on inside that box (including your MIL doting on her enabled son) is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.<p>As long as your children are being fed and are not being harmed...you have to let go of the responsibility of the rest of it when they are not with you. I know it stinks. And, emotionally, it is difficult. Acceptance of parts of your children's lives being beyond your control is very difficult and comes in stages. It tore me apart in the beginning...I am mostly okay with it now...(it'll be the 1 year anniversary of my divorce tomorrow).<p>He can't MAKE you do laundry for the children if you don't send a back pack full of clothes with them.<p>For that matter, I'd make his business relocation away from your residence a part of the divorce decree. You need to detach.<p>Lisa

I am detaching, but he's reporting this lack of clothes to his lawyer. The girls are in school today in the same clothes they wore yesterday. And I plan to send them to him in those same clothes tomorrow. How can I get him to understand that these are his responsibilities? I am done enabling, but this is ridiculous.
And I have 3 acres of lawn which isn't getting mowed because he refuses, yet runs a lawn service from the property. I can't even get anyone to bid on the job. It's 1 foot high now, and he still refuses to mow it even though the kids play outside with their babysitter. Am I being unreasonable. This sucks. And NO, I can't mow it myself, I don't know how to run those huge commercial mowers, and it's now too high to use a neighbors riding mower.
Do any of the men have comments on problems differentiating doing things for the children's best interest vs. the spouse's best interest? My only consolation is that he spent hours on the landscaping and ignored the children, and now its all going to pot. And believe me, Landscaping was not even in my top 25 Emotional Needs. Parenting time was, and his precious flowers were more important. I can't have him move the business until he's ready to talk about selling the house.

Newly: I know there are no rules on parental responsibilites especially about parental responsibilities in a divorce. <p>My ex lives in the marital home and is supposed to take the children every other weekend, certain holidays, etc. In the two years we have lived apart, he has taken them perhaps for a total of 5 weekends. Boundries? Some people, like my ex don't honor boundries unless they are staring at a court order. My ex thinks nothing of having the kids for the weekend and bringing them back home two hours later if he chooses to. It matters not if I have plans. Ont time he called me at 2 in the morning because he had fallen asleep early and didn't know where our 15 year old son was. Responsible? NOT. Most of the time, he chooses not to see the children. If I have a problem with one of the boys, it is my problem...he likes to tell me I'm the custodial parent...his child would never behave that way. It is hard raising two kids alone...but I am. I wish I was only dealing with the kids coming home in the same clothes. <p>Lots of men don't stop being a Dad because they aren't married to their mother anymore. Lots of Dads may not be as good about the clothes, etc than Moms...because in most cases, men aren't as anal as women about that stuff...one thing to remember is to try and keep the best interest of the child in mind. Is it really such a big deal about the clothes or are you really incredibly angry that he is still on the property being indifferent. Are the kids getting attention, love...do the kids enjoy seeing their father? My kids cringe at the thought of going to their father's house...and that is the house they grew up in. Doesn't say much about his relationship with his kids. No matter how much I have tried to address the harm he is doing to his boys...it doesn't change him. I take it that he doesn't care about them.<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: HappyMac ]</p>

Newly - I have our kids 5 overnights every 14, and wish it was 6 or 7. Your H has 6 and doesn't seem to care?!?! The point of overnights, rather than just an evening visitation, is to stay involved in their lives. His parents are probably doing what little parenting gets done during those times. I'll bet he doesn't stick with this. Is he just doing this to reduce his child support payments? If so, I don't think it will last long.<p>Generally, we try to handle clothes, transportation, school lunches, and activities along the lines that davepr outlined. I've had to buy clothes and toys for the kids, but it's still not as good a place as the house. I was going to the laundromat for a while, but that gets old real fast - takes a lot of time and money. So I bought a cheap washer and dryer ASAP. They pay for themselves in less than 1 year.<p>This is how I would expect things to go. He should be taking care of these things, spending money and adjusting his schedule to do it.<p>You don't have to do his laundry. Just send it back dirty. His Mom can do it in a pinch; see how long that lasts!<p>- Tom

Thanks. He just doesn't get it.
He had been demanding the girls 50% of the time, but now doesn't ask for more than 3 nights per week. I'm told his parent's are getting tired of this. He's 37YO and living at home.
Unfortunately, this will only get resolved through lawyers and it will be expensive. I'm hoping he drops the 3 nights/week down to one weeknight overnight and every other weekend, but that discussion will come later. If he had spent this amount of time with them before, we wouldn't be getting divorced.
A friend spoke to him recently and said he was COLD. She was shocked. I told her he's still stuck in Anger/Denial/Blame. I hope he gets help soon.

Newly,<p>I'm a guy and I do all the laundry for my wife (who has her own apartment) and myself.<p>So, I agree with the others that you are enabling him by sending clean clothes. He can buy some clothes for them if he needs to. Don't send the clothes unless you want to or unless it is part of your agreement. If he complains to his lawyer, he is not thinking. Unless it is in the agreement, you have nothing further to do than to send them along in reasonable clothes. His lawyer will probably tell him the same. <p>But....<p>I noticed something in your posts.
Your XH is not the only one who is stuck in gender-role expectations. Unless it is part of the agreement, there is no more reason for him to be interested in the height of your grass than in the height of MY grass. If it's not his grass, it's not his problem. Sorry. If the property is still own in common by the two of you, you need some kind of an agreement on maintence. Otherwise, you have just as much responsibility for it as he does. If you cannot do it yourself, you will have to hire somebody - maybe even him - to do it.<p>Sometimes when you are inside the problem it's hard to see these things. I hope I haven't offended you.<p>If I am ever divorced, I hope I can get as much time with my child as your XH has with your children.<p>-AD

Abandoned Dad,<p>You hit the nail on the head with the grass thing too...'zactly what I was going to say.<p>I don't do my ex's laundry...he doesn't mow my grass, or fix my leaky faucet, etc. His life is his, mine is mine.<p>Newly, you need to have zero expectations from him other than to keep your children safe from harm and fed when he has them. The rest are trappings of marriage, not divorce.<p>Think of yourself as a single. Who would mow your yard then? Probably not the guy "renting" your outbuilding for a business....and even if he did, it wouldn't be out of the kindness of his own heart, but out of some deal you make.<p>I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but it sounds like both of you are trying to have your divorce cake (stay out of my life) and eat the marriage too (but still do all the things for me that you used to).<p>It doesn't work that way.<p> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Lisa

Hi Newly,<p>I hope you are not offended by my response here, because I know the issue for you is your husband's inability to care for the children, and expecting you to wash clothes etc.<p>BUT.....I am thinking of the children. Imagine going to school in the same clothes three days running because parents cannot agree about who is supposed to wash them. I have three kids, and so I know how embarrassed mine would be to turn up in clothes that were not crisp, and probably had last night's gravy still on them, etc.<p>Call me stupid, but I would rather send as many clothes as my kids need for visitation, and have to wash them myself when they get home, than have them wear clothes over and over just to try and prove a point to their father. It is bringing the kids into the argument...not a good thing to do.<p>My advice is to just look after the kids' best interests, ignore the fact that he won't wash their clothes, and give him a message that at least YOU love and care for them the best you can in these circumstances. Not sending clothes gives him a BIG message that you are bitter........an LB...an excuse for him to say what a horrible person you are, etc, etc (all that WS Fogese). NEVER give a WS ANY ammunition to use against you.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

In an essence your still doing the spouses duties. When your children go over to him. Send the clothes on their backs. Send the dirty laundry back to him and tell him keep these clothes at your residence and tend to them as i do the clothes here. If he keeps the children overnight then he should drive them to daycare. Otherwise why are they staying. Part of shared parenting most guys want they forget the smaller tasks.
I am NOT knocking guys or the removed parent. It's diffficult being away from your children as well. But i am saying that i believe when the child/children are with one party THAT party should attend to their needs for the time period they occupy.<p>My ex insisted his child support was a jab at him not well intended. So I told him then lets split 2 weeks on and off. You take care of what you need to and I will take care of what I need to. No more shared child expenses, no more child support. He agreed but then after 2 weeks he refused saying he didn't have the time, because he has a business to run. Now he has reduced his access even more. Stating that he feels betterwhen his daughter is not around creating extra concerns for him and his girlfrind. HIS choice. But he doesn't talk about child support being misused anymore either.<p>Having children is a job in itself. Most forget that except the one doing the caring. Sometimes i would like to be the "good time" parent. I could work the hours i want and go out and stay out..never having to worry about childcare. But then I look into my child's face and I would take this deal EVERYDAY I will take care of her and work my schedule around her because THAT is my responsibility as a parent!

Thanks for everyone's comments. I'm walking a fine line trying to set boundaries and avoid enabling while still providing the best for my children.
I had hoped I could negotiate with him on the lawn, but he won't talk. I wanted to trade commuting the children with the lawn care. My neighbors are more amazed that he's not doing it than I am. He's been anal about how it looks for five years. It's still not mowed (only because I actually broke a neighbor's mower trying to mow it Saturday). A service is coming today. But I'd left 20 messages and only 1 returned the call.
The lawn is three acres, so it really isn't easy to do.<p>Thanks for your advice.