Up until my W informed me on 1/12/02 that I was her best friend, she loved me but wasn't in love with me...and later that day admitted she was interested in someone else, I never knew she was unhappy in our marriage. <p>We were together for 22 1/2 years and married for over 18, with two kids, ages 13 and 9. We never argued over anything big and all I ever heard was how I was the greatest husband and father ever going, how much she loved me and how if anything ever happened to me, there would never be another man in her life. We did nearly everything together and I never could have imagined two people happier with each other. Of course, now that she's left me, she's coming up with all sorts of complaints.<p>She moved out on 2/2, filed for DV in March and has been with the OM constantly. We have 50% custody of the children. They are also planning on building a home together as soon as the DV is final (if not before) so you can see she's really moved quickly. The DV could be final as soon as 7/25 but I'm working on slowing it down somewhat.<p>Is it unusual for a spouse to act as if they're so happy during the marriage and then have an A and move so quickly with a DV? Do most people know there are problems in their marriage before something like this happens? Don't most WS's at least try to work out problems by going to counseling or attempting reconciliation? My W told me in the beginning she didn't want to attend counseling because she didn't want to regain feelings of love for me because she didn't want to come back to me. Just seems so strange and I'm wondering how many others this has happened to. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: djw ]</p>

The fog can cause alot of strange behaviour with the WS. In my case, I had NO CLUE. I new things were not perfect but what marriage is. I had no idea, I was in a state of shock, I was told the same thing, love you but not in love with you, blah, blah, blah. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Is it unusual for a spouse to act as if they're so happy during the marriage and then have an A and move so quickly with a DV? Do most people know there are problems in their marriage
before something like this happens? Don't most WS's at least try to work out problems by going to counseling or attempting reconciliation? <hr></blockquote><p> No, i don't think is it unusual but I think there is problem alot of miscommunication going on. What would your WS say if you asked her why didn't she let you know she was unhappy? I think in alot cases the answer was I did, but you didn't hear me. That is my case. Some WS want to try councling but many need to go out and find out that the grass is not greener on their own, there is nothing anyone can say to change their minds, they need to learn on their own.<p>Take care,
Dave<p>#2

My WW's response to that question is that she doesn't like confrontation and she knows she should have said something before and regrets not having done so. We talked tonight and she said she will never come back to me...even if it doesn't work out with the OM. I'm positive it's over based on what she's saying to me. Nobody could be more adament in what they're saying and I think it's time for me just to get the DV over with quickly and move on.

My H never said a word about being unhappy. I suspected that he was suffering from clinical depression, and before discovery he had admitted that he had lost interest in all activities that he used to enjoy. As a matter of fact, the day he announced that he wanted a divorce, he said that he had been feeling that way for "weeks, maybe months" - apparently it did not seem odd to him to throw away a marriage of almost 2 decades and leave 6 children for a way he had been feeling for such a short time. It was only latter that he started coming up with complaints and claiming that he had been unhappy. At that point he claimed he had purposely tried to hide the way he felt from me. The day before he said he wanted a divorce, we offered on a house.

djw, my wife never let me know she was unhappy in our marriage, she would talk about what she was unhappy with in life and things she would like to do. We would always wake up saturday morinings before kids 15,16 got up and just talk about our dreams, goals and wishes, that was always our special time and we cherished it. There was nothing that pointed about seperation or divorce.<p>Communication break down started happening when its like something snapped in her over night....She started blaming me for stuff like, I got her pregnant while she was in college, [17 years ago], I made her cook when company came over, 2 people [now this is hilerious because she only cooked 2 times a month I did it all?...I didn't do this or do that, on and on....I found a letter she never gave me after we seperated talking about she loved me but was not in love with me, by this time her heart had wondered.<p>I look back and I remember how thrilled she was when a guy would flirt with her at first she thought it was annoying so I didn't think twice about it, then months later she now mention how some guy flirted with her and I would laugh and say "oh its just another pervert with his head out the window" but I look back and I think she was starting to enjoy the attention, she had just started losing a little weight and excersizing.<p>She started trying to re-live what she missed out on before kids were born. Now this is when the multiple affairs started happening also. Once the affairs started she just went wild....<p>My Dv-day is about 1 week away, at her choice...On sunday for the first time in 8 months we talked on the phone for 4 hours but later ended in argument about affairs, she knows she's hurt me and apologized stating " Do you think I went out and tried to do those things?" problem is she still thinks there was nothing wrong with having other men in the picture, so I can't get her to see that that was wrong, thats because there is still OM in picture. Even though she going through with DV, I think she is wavering with her decision.<p>I know my wife, she would not file unless she had someone to run to , she's not that brave, in her own words she's said she likes the attention of a man. I think relationship with OM is shakey and she' see'd she'll have to committ, I'm sure she's about ready to run soon.

I guess I knew deep down that my x was unhappy, but never knew the reason. She just never seemed to be happy or content with anything. She was never really into the kids, she wasn't a stay at home mom and never really relished that role. She didn't like helping out at the kids scholl and really didn't enjoy the kids sports, it was always too hot/cold/long or conflicted with her work.<p>Because of her work schedule, she worked afternoons and every other weekend, we seemed to mis out on a lot of things. I decided I was tired of missing out on things and started taking the kids to things myself or getting a babysitter and going alone. I remember one New Year's Eve when x had to work and I decided to go to a friend's party and she was mad that I was actually going.<p>Not long after we made some new friends and went on vaction with them, not long afterwards they dropped us like a hot potato and I tool it pretty hard. I couldn't understand how someone could go on vacation with you one time and then a few weeks later would walk right by you and not speak. My x wouldn't talk about it and said just get over it.<p>I made a new friend and this guy had a bunch of problems and he was very possive and hard to get away from. X started getting mad I was spending time with this guy. She came home from work one night and said that she was jealous that I talked to this guy so much. Meanwhile we never talked about anything. About a week later she told me that some guy at work had asked her out for a drink afterwork. I was sick to my stomach and she just laughed it off saying he was engaged to one of the other girls at work and he was just "kidding." This was about 2 yrs before the affair. At that point I dropped my friendship with the guy.<p>Apparently nothing improved in our relationship. We never did try counseling. It must be the basic guy thing, there is no observable problem so no need to talk about it.<p>I thought once our kids got older, things would get better, we would be able to do things without hurrying home like we always did. But I guess she got tired waiting.<p>During the divorce she said all the same things your ws have said to you all. My x sounds alot like yours djw.

My stbx was unhappy from the start, I think. I just don't believe he was ready for marriage. I know I wasn't -- I tried to postpone, wanted to wait. Throughout the marriage he showed his unhappiness. Trouble was, he refused to do anything to change. <p>I gave him plenty of room to grow and he didn't do too much with it. Ran and hid from the family. He says he was miserable. He now says he was depressed the whole time. I don't know that I believe that. He would have been happy if I just let him run around, absolved of all responsibility until he was good and ready to be a H and father. <p>Snow

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by djw:
<strong>We talked tonight and she said she will never come back to me...even if it doesn't work out with the OM. I'm positive it's over based on what she's saying to me. Nobody could be more adament in what they're saying and I think it's time for me just to get the DV over with quickly and move on.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I gotta admit, I do not understand this reasoning. On the one hand, you've got a decade or two of regular declarations of love and devotion. On the other hand, you've got a few months of rejection and repudiation. Why should the more recent statements, with a much shorter history, be considered more reliable?<p>The fact is, djw, you don't know what your wife is going to do. The only thing you can be certain about is that she is experiencing a great deal of psychological and emotional stress, and it doesn't appear as though you even know what the instigating stressor was - it might have nothing to do with you or your marriage!<p>Yes, djw, your wife is moving awfully fast. No surprise there, since if she doesn't run quickly she might catch up with herself, and she can't afford to do that. I'm no psychologist, but I could throw around a bunch of psychological buzzwords (like "dissociation" and "dissonance") to explain what could be going on with your wife. Around MB, it is more common just to refer to "the fog", which is a blanket term encompassing what turns out to be a surprisingly small collection of patterns that apply in situations such as yours (and mine). The bottom line is, you can't trust anything your wife says while she is in "the fog".<p>To answer your original question, yes, I knew my wife was unhappy. However, I did not know why. It certainly wasn't for lack of my trying to make her happy.<p>As far as I could tell, my wife's move from declaration of love to declaration of friendship took about one week. Her move from declaration of friendship to declaration of war took just one week more.

You know what hurts as much as anything is that she trusts the OM completely and doesn't trust me any longer. As long as I've known her, I've always tried to put her happiness and that of the kids before mine. I've done everything a man could do to make her happy and give her a good life and I just don't understand how she can say the things she now says (that didn't get said when we were together) and do the things she's doing.<p>Last night she told me to get a life, to move on and give her a quick divorce. She's never coming back and there is nothing I can do to get her to. She said she shouldn't have waited until the OM came along and should have left 5 yrs ago. I said, instead of wishing you would have left 5 yrs ago, don't you wish you would have gone to counseling 5 yrs ago if you were unhappy? Her response; no, I don't love you and never will in that way. She also said I'm wasting my time on this website and with Dr. Harley's books and the counseling. "They're all out to tell you what you want to hear and they don't know how I feel" was her reply. One thing the two of us are working on is to try to be friends and we're going to go to lunch later this week. I don't see that as a positive though because believe me, nobody could be more clear they don't want me back in their life as a husband and I still don't know why. Well, thanks for the help and support.

Dear djw,<p>Have you ever read Lostva's story? You should if you haven't. Your W is classic, typical in her FOG characteristics. I know that doesn't make your hurt and pain lessen, but you do need to understand, your W will be one bizzaro unit until she isn't anymore. <p>Try and take the concentration off your wife as much as possible and place the efforts and focus on you. Making you stronger ... being more introspective about what you're going thru. ANd the hardest thing I'll ask you to do is try and not take what your W says or does as personal attacks. This A she's having is ALL ABOUT HER. <p>I'll go find my link to Lostva's story and place it here in just a minute.<p>Click Here (6th thread down, djw)<p>In the meantime, do keep posting and venting. We're here for you.<p>Love, and God Bless,
Jo<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Well, i know my X would yell at me alot for minor things, etc. but the fog got her, and how old is your W?<p>it could be that her hormones have changed, as many do in mid life, and she as a feeler, is interpreting it the wrong way. . . (now don't all the feminists jump on me, I know of one situation personally just like this and the hormone pill changed her back to her normal self) and another on this board who figured out that her MLC was alot to do with hormone imbalances and changes. . . )<p>also, what was her FOO like? could she be repeating something that she saw along time ago, and doesn't realize she is coping in the same dysfunctional way? Many times, there is an impulse to repeat the familiar in life events, and this event could be one of them, but the outcome could be different. . . .<p>I know my X started to repeat her parents and grand parent's life values, which she swore in the beginning were different than hers. . . i also believe that she had a hormone imbalance, and she had a hard time dealing with her 20 th year teaching award. . .<p>was she unhappy? the fog told me that she had been unhappy for the last 10 year's and when i offered up the cards of love, she said, "Ah, i just wrote that."<p>I would say that she has some issues that need to be worked out, and to let her go and find it as fast as possible. . . there are plenty of affair failures here on the board, just check out today. . . there is also a very low probability for her success coming from a very abuse free situation. . .<p>My X got lit up when a local EMT hero that she worked with took interest in her after he got divorced for fooling around. . . how long do you think that relationship lasted? as long as it took for her to tell him that she was separated, and then he took flight quickly. . .<p>so i would just make it as fast as possible, and let her taste the new life, as that's what she wants. . . generally, unless they are in counseling and willing to acknowledge the possibility of self responsibility, then there is a chance. But mine said similar statements, and she is one sick puppy. . . .<p>don't want her back either. . .<p>wiftty

"WhenIfindthetime", I'm not sure what FOO is but I'll assume it's her family upbring or something to do with her mom & dad's relationship. Here are the answers to your questions (sorry it's so long).<p>My W was nearly 14 and I was 17 when we began dating in the summer of 79. Her mother had breast cancer and passed away 12/79. Her mother was one of the kindest people going from what I've heard from those who knew her. Her father was a diabetic and an alcoholic and he died a year ater her mother. He basically lost his will to live and drank himself to death and went into a diabetic coma before passing away. She said her mother had talked about leaving him because of the alcoholism but never did. About 4 years before her mother died, her older brother was driving while impaired and hit a semi and was in the hospital for over a year. He had brain damage, lost an eye and has lost the ability to have good motor skill coordination and has been in assisted living homes as long as I've been with my W. Enough hardship for one family? <p>After my W's dad died, her and her younger sister moved in with her other older brother and he and his W raised them. Upon graduting from HS, we got married 10/83. My W does have a hot temper and said that's a family trait. I've always been real easy going and it takes a lot to upset me.<p>My W is 37 and began excercising about 2 yrs ago and has lost about 30 lbs and is now a size 4. She has changed her appearance quite a bit. She got her navel pierced last fall. She wears fairly sexy, tight fitting clothing and dresses like she's in her early 20's. Her friends/co-workers are in their 20's and 4 or 5 of them are going through separations or DV's.<p>3/01, my W had what they thought was an aneurysm at the time and had extensive tests (angiograms, CAT Scans, MRI) and was hospitalized for 10 days and in the I.T.U. for the first 3 days. She was in pretty rough shape for awhile and ended up with a clean bill of health. I was by her side every step of the way throughout this ordeal and it was the happiest moment of my life when they didn't find a problem. They ended up ruling it as a "thunder clap" headache and said it would probably never occur again. I'm almost wondering if that got her thinking about things and made her think she missed out by never being with any other man...or maybe it affected her some other way. I guess the last thing I'll add is that she says the OM is the oppostite type of guy as me. Hope that sheds some more light on things.<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: djw ]</p>

FOO = Family of Origin<p>So, djw, your wife has been exhibiting classic symptoms of mid-life crisis or delayed adolescence. All a very common part of the pattern.<p>Do enough reading into these kinds of things, and you'll find that you are effectively watching your wife follow a script. Unfortunately, it's impossible to guess which of the handful of similar scripts she is following.

Since your W was very young when you first started dating, I would say that she was ripe for a MLC, especially if she stayed with you during the family crises. . . . <p>also, she could be fulfilling her mother's desires, where her mother could not. . . lots of times, the pressure to live up to a parent's standards ends up having the person want to do what the parent could not do, to make them proud of the person. . . that is one "script" which to some extent i followed in my career. . .<p>secondly, since she was young and you were old, she could be finally taking the steps of individualization, meaning becoming her own self. . and the decision was prompted by the hospitalization, but fi she just jumped to OM, with very little time, and thought, <p>this event you are watching is probably the classic MLC, delayed adolescence because of suppressed adolescence happening due to the family event.s . . . <p>so looks like MB has solved another weather event, the latest fog bank to engulf the innocent.<p>wiftty

the only complaint my H was making was his job, he couldnt take the shift work as a policeman. then came the blow it wasnt the work it was a younger married nurse the A was done while on duty he got caught down dirt with her in policecar. H is finially finding out about her, her credit is shot. H is not her only lover & she is not his only lover outside their marriages. I hope they both get married to see what they both gave up.

Something she told me last night that I was too dumbfounded to respond intelligently to is that I mentioned something about her affair and she responded "I'm not having an affair". What would you call it then? I guess that's really being in a fog. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

djw,
I would venture a guess your is having a MLC too as my x said and did almost all the same things your w has. She too said she was leaving and om just happened to come along, that she wasn't having an affair, that I should just move on. <p>When I was asking her about her living with om, and what kind of example that was, she said it was okay because they were committed to each other. I said then I ought to get some drugged out stripper to move in and she replied maybe I should.<p>You really can't take to heart what she is saying. She is trying to justify what she is doing and talk you into it too.<p>Plan A is the way, Plan B if you must.<p>Hang in!<p>Bob

djw,<p>Hello. I had my share of ups and downs in the marriage, but the last two years were really good, or so I thought. At that point we didn't argue and we spent a lot of time together. He also told me he was in love still and so happy we made it that far.<p>In hindsight, he controlled me much of the time and I didn't actually realize it, but at the time he left, I was happy and I was settled.<p>I didn't know he was unhappy, had I known, I would have done anything to fix it before he just left.<p>Now I learned more from the divorce and I know what to look for and I think I'd recognize it the second time around.<p>(if there is a second time around)><p>Dana