I will try to keep this short. First the situation:<p>2 years of dating, 13 years of marriage, high school sweethearts, each of us were never really with anyone else from the get-go. I cheated 2 years ago. I admitted it to her, she left for a week, but came back and we got over that. Well, SHE did more than me. It ate at me every day and seeing her reminded me of what I did to her all the time. My cheating was the reason I was saved and became a Christian (she had been for years) because it showed me I am not as in control of things like I thought and that realization is what opened the door.<p>Following that, you would think things would go smoother, but so many outside forces were working against the marriage that last Sept. we separated. But again, I was going through being laid off, trying to sell the house and really had no time to reflect on what was happening and it was a down hill ride to divorce at this point.<p>Last December we got divorced and she had always said, once we were divorced, that was it for good.<p>But, after getting a job, selling the house and getting a place of my own for the first time in my life (went straight from home to marriage) I had time to think, reflect and pray. It wasn't long until I realized the mistake I made in letting her go. I know she went through a lot for me. I also know I was the love of her life and you can't just turn that off.....or can you ?<p>This past January I emailed my ex-wife and told her of how I finally had time to myself and think and realized that a lot of things I had as a high priority in the past were wrong and my whole value system had shifted for the better.<p>I was replied to with an email that I need to move on and she was with someone else now (boy, that was fast). I can't confirm she ever actually was, maybe she was just saying it to hurt me.<p>Anyway, she has totally blown me off on this subject and I sought out a lot of advice, including my pastor and the consensus was just to back off and give it time and see how it goes.<p>It's been 5 months and nothing has changed. We don't really talk anymore and she even moved an hour away and didn't tell me. We had 2 dogs and she got one. I wanted to go visit the dog for an afternoon, but she doesn't "think that's a good idea".<p>So, what are my chances at this point ? I have dreams about her at least once a month. I think of her a lot and know the mistake I made. I continually pray, but not sure what to pray for ?<p>I believe she has built a wall to protect herself from me and she is the only one that can take it down. But if she doesn't want to, that will never happen.<p>I have tried to get back to dating in hopes of taking her off of my mind, but that hasn't happened yet (no dates and she's still on my mind). I am 33. Is there even a 1 in 1000 chance that we will get back together ? She was a strong Christian before me and I did kinda toss at her back in January about how God doesn't recognize divorce and that if either of us wants to reconcile that in Gods eyes we should try. I also pointed out that there is no limit in Gods eyes to the number of times you can forgive someone and give them another chance.<p>I wouldn't have asked her if I didn't really change because no way would I try to hurt her if I wasn't a billion percent sure of my realization that I love her more than anything and wish to be with her every day. <p>Should I bring up the subject again ? Should I let it go ? I still feel at this point that I would get the same answer out of her - I need to move on and she's with someone else now - if I didn email her. She won't give me her address or phone, even though she knows I would not contact her in any way if she didn't want it. I just feel that deep down inside she knows I am right and we should be together again. How do I bring that back out of her ?<p>Thanks.

I would also like to add that back in early December after the divorce (when I still thought it was kinda the right thing in our case) I did date a girl that was great. But the whole time I felt uneasy, guilty and ended up ending it because of that. It was just plain weird to me to be with someone else.<p>I believe she would have had the same type of feelings also about being with someone else. That was what triggered my feelings and thinking to "Oh, God, what did I do".

Hi whatalife:<p>First, I say "go for it". If it's in your heart... you gotta go with that. <p>YET... you gotta play it cool. No need. No desperation. Offers of what you can do for her. <p>Find out what she wants... and give it to her.<p>Like... remember back when you were splitting up. What kind of things did she say she wanted from you before things shut down?<p>Where did she tell you she was hurting because of the relationship? What did she say she needed and wanted from you?<p>I'd say not to e-mail her. It didn't work. So don't go that route.<p>What other opportunity do you have?<p>Pray and ask God for insight and wisdom and the course to take.<p>One of the things that will work better is the more you interact and relate with her. It's easy to put up a wall from a distance. <p>Remain humble, gentle, and kind. Keep your own wall down. Don't put her on the defensive by being on the defensive.<p>I've been praying the scriptures over my situation. <p>When you pray in agreement with the will of God, God moves on your behalf. Because she has the Holy Spirit, you can speak to her life through prayer and prayer changes things.<p>I'd pray.<p>Remember this... for women... love is friendship. I can tell you simply that if a man is my friend,, he has a path to my heart. The better friend he is... the clearer the path to my heart.<p>So I'd say not to get sexual because you are a sexual kind of person as a man. (I've heard that for men love is sex.) Remember that she's different than you and she's gonna have her walls up about sex and you being sexual towards her.<p>If you can go back to a courtship mentality and try to be a friend however you can be a friend... there you go. It's a way.<p>I don't know you. I don't know her.
If she's seeing someone else, you may not have an opportunity right now. But you can let her know that you love her and care about her... and if she would ever give you the opportunity... you would like to dedicate your life to meeting her needs, not doing anything to harm her, and making her happy.<p>If she is seeing someone else and will not give you that opportunity right now... getting in the middle of that will create the kind of pain and torment people on this board go through.<p>Don't get in the middle of that. Make your offer, pull back, and pray and wait for it to end.<p>Don't get in the middle of it. <p>For whatever it is worth, that's my feedback.<p>Best wishes,<p>Laura

I've been praying, but it's hard to even know what to pray for. It's obvious as to what God would want in this situation. But, if she is closed and not listening to that, then I don't know. Do I pray for us to get back together, do I pray to put my feelings behind me and move on, do I pray for the patience to wait and see ?<p>It's hard and I seem to go in cycles as to what to do. When the part of the cycle comes up that I am trying to move on and do things like browse an online dating site, then I just see how much of a match we really were and go back to wishing we could make another go, divorce or not. The only thing that's final in life is death. And that hasn't happened !

Sometimes the answer we expect from prayer is not the one we want to hear. God wants us to be happy. If your ex was not happy in the marriage and can't get past the pain you have to let go. I am the BS and the pain I went through can never be replicated, because I will not allow it. You may be over looking something God wants you to see. Look deep, see what lesson you were to learn. Did you learn anything? Grow and move on. If you 2 are ment to be together again then it will happen again. Patience, patience. You will be fine.

Whatalife
Sorry to see your pain and confusion while riding the same rollercoaster as I am. The similarities between your situation and mine are incredible. I can feel your pain, your sense of emptiness, etc. XW and myself dated for 4y, married for 8y, and now divorced for 10m. I also cheated on my X and with my best intentions of saving our marriage I admitted my affair to her. What a big mistake as it only provided her with the perfect reason/excuse to initiate the divorce and go full time to OM arms! Prior to admitting my affair I did a lot of soul searching, realized that I was a doing against my marital vows and my sons, stopped the affair, and went back with all my energies to save my marriage. Well, as the X told me on my face; &#8220;to little, too late&#8221;.
I always suspected OM (co-worker) in her life and got pieces of evidence here and there but I was lead to believe that I was the problem and that it was all in my mind. Her affair started even earlier (1999) than mine and still continues today. OM is married. She finally admitted her affair and now all the pieces of the puzzle, her deception, fall in place.
Where is all this going? Well, my X also tells me that it is over for good, forever. She recites the &#8220;I don&#8217;t love you anymore, etc, etc&#8221; at every available opportunity. I have been used and discarded for good. She is a 100% taker while I am 100% a giver. I left the door open and beg her many times for one last chance for our sons and us; the answer is always the same, &#8220;NO&#8221;.
Last month we had a brief few days of family interaction where both my sons and myself got our hopes high. Unfortunately it was all a manipulation plan to get me to agree to some issues to her convenience. I am now in a distrust and anger stage. Angry at the manipulation, the fact that she is using my boys as pawns, the fact that she does not think about how their feelings getting hurt with her games, and the reality of her affair slapping me on my face.
As you well said, too many outside forces to fight including the OM factor. I am closing the door and practicing Plan C as DAVEPR very well describes it (thank you for your advise Dave). It is clear to me now that I did not have a healthy relationship, giving without receiving is never healthy.
On the spiritual side; I am closer to God and put everything on His hands. I am moving on.
Again, your XW actions/treatment are amazingly identical to those of my X. I just hope that in your case it works out, if that is what you want.
May God help you and everybody in this forum to ease the pain and to find happiness again.

WHatalife,<p>I have lived your wife's experience. My ex cheated on me, we reconciled...I worked to move beyond the pain and trust issues. He sort of tried to be trustworthy. And for 5 years that was tolerably working. <p>The thing is...what I didn't realize until we finally did divorce and I got distance and perspective, was how much taking him back took from me. I lived with a giant albatross hanging around my neck for five years...where every time he was late, I assumed the worst. Every time $20 was unaccounted for, I assumed the worst. Everytime the phone rang and no one was there or it was a wrong number, I assumed the worst. It wasn't what he was doing, per se, but it was the noose always hovering over our marriage, ready to hang it. It ate at my self-esteem, it ate at my confidence, it pushed me into a constant state of semi-depression.<p>When we finally did divorce...and I recoverd from the initial shock of that - I realized I didn't have that weight to carry anymore - he was his new wife's problem...not mine. What a relief!<p>I don't know your wife, but when she says "it's over, move on..." I'm pretty sure that is why. It is good to not live in fear, distrust, depression. Once free from it, it takes a huge leap of faith to put yourself in the line of fire again (especially with the same person who did it to you in the first place).<p>I'm sorry to be the one to say it. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Sometimes life's lessons are hard and unforgiving. I would never take my ex back - EVER - I don't care if he became a saint. I would better my relationship with him if he did a turn around (put us on a positive interaction,no tension co-parent mode), but I will never allow him to be an integral part of my emotional well-being again. He can't be trusted with it.<p>I know I'm probably anti-MBing it with my advice, but I say give your ex her space and her own life. That is the most loving thing you can do now.<p>Lisa

As a Christian, I'd say to pray the Word of God. <p>I'll tell you the scriptures I've been praying. I insert the name of the person I am praying for and I pray the scriptures.<p>As I have done so, I have experienced a remarkable change in feeling. At first, I felt pain when I prayed. Increasingly, a weight lifted off of me and the pain went away.<p>Now I feel God's love, peace, joy, and happiness as I pray... as if I can feel God moving in and through me.<p>It's been wonderful for me.<p>I can look at the same set of circumstances and not feel the same. I feel comforted in the Holy Spirit and I feel fulfilled.<p>Is God "changing" the other person? I have to believe that. God said His Word doesn't return void and when we pray anything in agreement with His will, He hears us. Because He hears us, we have our petition.<p>God says yes.<p>I can't change that person. God can change people's hearts and take away anger, hurt, and bitterness until they increase and overflow in God's love. <p>God is in the business of mending broken hearts and relationships.<p>I'll tell you how the circumstances change for me. I know that they will. I know God is moving.<p>God bless,<p>Laura

Pray Ephesians 5. Insert your name and your wife's name in the place of husband and wife. Pray the prayer 3 times a day. It will stabilize your feelings and fill you with the Holy Spirit. <p>Also, pray the Lord's prayer inserting your wife's name and applying it to her life and yours.<p>I'll tell you the other scriptures later. But begin praying that one inserting your names. Pray it to God and to your wife's heart. She'll hear you. Better than e-mail. She'll hear in her spirit by the Holy Spirit.<p>Try it. You'll like it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God bless,<p>Laura

Whatalife.....Lauralee is correct. Pray and have faith that God will change your wifes heart and He will reconcile your marriage. God didn't intend marriages to be broken up for any reason especially one that satan so blatantly got into. We all make bad choices when the enemy is guiding us but if we get obedient to God he will hear our prayers. <p> I just discovered through 2 close friends(they told me about it the same day so I know God wants me to do it) a website that gives you hope that your marriage can be restored with lots of faith and prayer. It is www.rejoiceministries.org
I knew god was going to take care of me before but I have new hope when reading how god has worked in these marriages. <p> Laura I like your advice about just trying to be your wifes friend first. I am trying that to just show my wife that I can be her friend again and hopefully build back some of the trust in the mean time. I know it will take a long time before she feels comfortable with me but God will work that out in due time. If you love your wife half as much as I do then your love must be great too. <p> Onmyown..... I am sorry your reconciliation didn't work. It sounds like your husband had other plans by the way he married other woman so soon. I still say if God puts it in the heart it can be done. Both have to have forgiving hearts and repentent hearts so it will work.<p>
Love in Christ
[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]<p>[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>

Lisa (My Own Me),
I was a "recovery board" regular at one time, but I haven't been to this site in a longggg time. I'm not Marriage Building anymore, and although I'm still a huge fan of the whole program, I feel like I am limited in what I can offer since it obviously didn't work for me. <p>I am so frustrated and I am trying to move on. It's not something I want to do...it's something I need to do. <p>You said, <p>"When we finally did divorce...and I recovered from the initial shock of that - I realized I didn't have that weight to carry anymore - he was his new wife's problem...not mine. What a relief!<p>I don't know your wife, but when she says "it's over, move on..." I'm pretty sure that is why. It is good to not live in fear, distrust, depression. Once free from it, it takes a huge leap of faith to put yourself in the line of fire again (especially with the same person who did it to you in the first place).<p>I'm sorry to be the one to say it. Sometimes life's lessons are hard and unforgiving. I would never take my ex back - EVER - I don't care if he became a saint. I would better my relationship with him if he did a turn around (put us on a positive interaction,no tension co-parent mode), but I will never allow him to be an integral part of my emotional well-being again. He can't be trusted with it.<p>I know I'm probably anti-MBing it with my advice, but I say give your ex her space and her own life. That is the most loving thing you can do now."<p>
Lisa - Thanks for so pefectly putting into words what I have been trying to say...
AB<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: almostbroken ]</p>

Lisa and AB - I think your feelings are very understandable. I can say that I feel those same feelings myself. Yet, I look at things a different way when applying things between me and a Christian man.<p>The way I see it, sin is the reason that betrayal happens. <p>The Bible says we fight not enemies of flesh and blood but spiritual principalities and powers of darkness.<p>In that sense, the WS is the one who betrays and sins... but it's sin working. <p>The WS isn't the enemy... sin is.<p>So if a BS lets betrayal stop healing and recovery... sin has successfully destroyed the marriage.

Whatalife,<p>The web site cajunky gave you is great. They have a daily devotional you can sign up for that will give you lots of encourgement and hope. God sent me to this site when my husband left me. www.restorem.org. the book there changed my life!
Please go and read the testmonies. They will give you hope.<p>God never goes against His word, He hates divorce.
He loves divorced people and forgives divorced people and divorce people go to heaven. But divorce is NEVER God's will. We all have marriage wrong. We all have been taught the wrong things about marriage. That is because Satan has confused us and lied to us. God's plans for marriage are different than the worlds ways. We all need to learn God's will for marriage. I did this by learning His word. I could not do this alone. I order the book from the restore marraige site. It is all about god's word and will.<p>Please understand that I have been just as confused by Satan as anyone. I left my first husband years ago. I had to seek God to know that
He wanted my current marriage restored. It took prayer and fasting.God's answer never makes things more complicated.<p>God never goes against His word but He is a forgiving God also. We have to depend on Him to lead us. God sometimes allows separation in order to get us were He wants us, closer to Him, depending only on Him for everything.<p>
I hope this helps. Please go to the two web sites mentioned. God does here your prayers.Remember it takes time , so wait on the Lord.<p>gentle <p>
Only you can seek God for His will for your life.

On*My*Own, I just wanted to reply to your advice. It may apply, but not in the context that you gave it. The trust in our relationship was restored quickly. That may be hard to believe since you don't know me, but believe me, that affair over time was a lot harder on me. It broke me down and was THE event that pushed me into salvation realizing the help I needed. But up to that point my wife was the only woman I had only been with in ANY capacity (kiss, date, everything). I was just stupidly naive and it took a looooong chain of events that I didn't see happening then for the OW to 'get me'.<p>It was actually my wife trying to pull ME through it after she forgave me. She knew she could still trust me as much as any human can be trusted. Everyone, and I will repeat this, EVERYONE is capable of having an affair under the right circumstances. Most will blow that off as bs, but it is true. It's like you go under a spell. The only way to stop it is to immediately see the chance for it happening is arriving and clear out of that area ! I actually did see that and told the OW we need to stay away from each other before something happens that shouldn't. She assured me over and over that no, it was ok, we were just good friends, blah, blah, blah. Like I said, you fall under a spell. <p>Sometimes having an affair and surviving it can be the medicine to prevent one from ever happening again and you are stronger for it. I KNOW that is the case with me.<p>No matter who I end up with in life, I know I can and will do everything it takes to remain a faithful spouse. Like I said, for those that have a strong conscience and honest to God are sorry it happened will pay for it more and longer than the burned spouse. I know that is hard to believe to the BS.<p>Anyway, my wife, if asked, would still rate me as one of the most honest and trustworthy people she knows or has ever known. We divorced for other reasons, mainly my priorities in life. That's why it sucks for me. After divorcing and being on my own for the first time in my life it allowed my head to clear, put the affair behind me, take stock in my life and realize what I really wanted. It was my wife. It didn't take long for me to realize and I received signs from God on this as I wasn't even looking back in her direction initially. I didn't go out and date a lot of women to find this out either. I did date 1 a few times, but ended it because, even though divorced, I felt guilty like I was cheating.<p>So see, I have total freedom to see anyone I want, do anything I want with them now and the only thing I want is my wife back. If I had any wild oates left, I can act on them now. But I don't and never did. I believe the affair was allowed to happen by God because he knew the marriage could survive it and I would be saved as a result. The reasons for our divorce aren't because of that. But, I now want her back with all of her plusses and minuses. It's all give and take.<p>I hope she realizes the same about me. I still feel deep in my gut that she still does have that feeling of wanting to be with me but is just bottling it up. If she really doesn't want to be with me ever again, then that is something I need to deal with, BUT, if she is just bottling it up out of spite for us getting a divorce, then that is tragic. The only thing that keeps popping into my head is the verse from the Bible that goes something like this.....don't let man undo what God has done.<p>I can't say I wish the divorce never happened. Because, just like the affair, great changes occured that have helped me beyond imagination. I took a GIANT step forward immediately after the divorce and on my own, being able to relate with God myself everyday and everynight. That step may have taken a decade otherwise. One of the marriage problems was that my wife was 'ahead' of me in the walk with Christ. I feel that gap has been narrowed big time, but is it too late for us ?<p>Sorry so long....

Whatalife.....it is never to late. God didn't intend for divorce. You have to pray,pray,pray that God will restore your marriage then take action to do it with Gods guidance.

Thanks for the help. I also wish there was a much longer waiting period to even get a divorce. It was all too easy (ours was mutual with everything divided up on our own). I mean, all it was was walking into court, each of us saying yes and BAM! It's over.
2 years of dating, 13 years of marriage ended in under 30 seconds.

Whatalife,<p>I appreciate your response and I understand where you're coming from. I honor the fact that you want to try to make things right with your ex. But I think you missed my point a little. <p>Everything you spoke of - the changes in you, the growth, the maturity are all wonderful positive steps for you as a human being. I'm sure your ex-wife did forgive and did see your suffering through regret and remorse...I saw those things in my ex after his first affair as well. I found it very ironic that at times I was helping him deal with his actions more than he was helping me. Sound familiar? <p>The point I tried to make before, however, was that it wasn't until AFTER my ex and I divorced that I realized how much I was still carrying around internally - low self-esteem, low self-confidence, depression - etc. Not just about the affairs, but about the behaviors and the way I was treated (your "chain of events") that led to them too. Our divorce got me free of that - free of something I didn't really realize was weighing me down until after it was lifted off me.<p>Forgive me if this sounds a little blunt - I'm running short on time today...<p>You speak a lot about the growth you made, things you realized, and your desire to get back with your ex who has moved on. However, part of taking responsibility for one's actions is accepting the consequences of them.<p>I am not heavily religious - and may get a flame or two back for this - but perhaps while God has answered your prayers by providing you with this opportunity to grow in your beliefs, God has answered different prayers for your ex.<p>Everytime I read through your post I keep coming up with that saying: If you love something, let it go; if it comes back to you, it's yours - if not, it never was.<p>If you love your ex, I think you have to respect her request to be left in peace.<p>Take care,<p>Lisa