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Joined: Apr 2002
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dopey Offline OP
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Hello Everyone: I haven't posted here in a few months and I'm not even sure I'm posting this in the right section but I have taken three steps backwards & need some advice & help from my friends at MB.<p>I am currently divorced and my XH is still seeing the same OW that he started his A with. My husband had asked me for a divorce in which I went ahead and gave to him (this was before I discovered MB). I by any means did not want the divorce but I also didn't want to fight him on this because I guess I am not a fighter. Needless to say, our divorce become final Jan. 2002. It was hard to swallow but I did okay. <p>Well, I was very much still in love with my husband but I knew now that I had to move on. I started getting stronger each day and doing things for myself. I tried to keep somewhat of a friendship with him for my daughters' sake. As hard as it was I've never really let him feel what it was truly like to live w/out me because we've kept a friendship throughout our separation & divorce. Which now I know was a BIG mistake.<p>Well, in April he started playing mind games w/ me and making me feel like he still thought a lot about me & maybe even still loved me. In fact, there was a couple times he sent me e-mails telling me that he loved me. Then when he came to drop off the girls a couple different times he even gave me a peck on the mouth as he left. Well, you can only imagine what that did to me. On Mother's Day he came over to bring my daughters to me and cooked me a steak on the grill. Like we always used to do. Then I got to thinking, wow, maybe he's trying to tell me something. So we got friendlier and started talking more frequently & so forth. <p>But lately found it wasn't going anywhere. He was just wanting to have the best of both worlds. Of course, I never gave up the jabs or being sarcastic w/ him which I know makes him very angry. He calls me Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hyde. But what does he expect with his mind games. <p>Anyway, I guess what hurts me most is that my daughters were seeing us laughing, talking and getting along and of course their hopes were getting high that we might get to be a family again someday. But I started thinking to myself the other day that this was just not fair to them or to me. <p>I was out of town a couple days last week and he came to my home to stay w/ my daughters because my youngest doesn't like to sleep anywhere else other than her bed. While I was gone, he was wonderful. I got home and he had cleaned my house, cooked dinner, mowed my lawn and trimmed bushes & trees for me. Boy, did that bring back memories. I had noticed in the past few weeks he hadn't been spending as much time with his girlfriend as he had been. I can usually monitor that because of where he's calling our daughters from.<p>Keep in mind that during these past 1 1/2 yrs he has lived w/ his brother and only sees her when she doesn't have her children. Unless, she has her kids & he has ours then they get together and go do things together. So my daughters have met this OW and really don't talk about her because they don't want to hurt me. Although they do like going over to play w/ her kids.<p>Last night he called to tell me that the girls needed their bathing suits when I take them to him tomorrow because he & the OW were going to take them to the beach. This stunned me because she doesn't have her children. He has never done anything with just her and our daughters. Now this scenario leads me to my situation.<p>During these past couple months I felt like my self-esteem went down again and kept telling myself I can't take his mind games anymore. So I told him just to leave me alone, stay out of my life unless it concerns our daughters, no more friendship. I am not teaching my daughters anything valuable about marriage. All I'm doing is teaching them that it's okay to be married and their husbands to have girlfriends but use my wife. That is not what I want to instill in my daughter's beliefs. Divorce is not about being friends.<p>Throughout the past couple months I kept asking myself "how can I still love this man". He's a liar, selfish, and an adulterer. He left me & his children (whom he always said are his world) to be with the OW when it's convenient for him.<p>I'll be back to finish up. We're going to church and I'll be back to finish venting to you all. Gee, I hope the service has some words of encouragement for me today. <p>So last night on the phone I told him that he has got to stay out of my life but that the only way he was going to do that is to move in w/ the OW. Otherwise, I know he will continue trying to play around with my head and emotions. So by the end of our conversation he told me he would talk to the OW about living together. He even told me that as long as he's been w/ her he really doesn't know her very well although he does love her. I wanted to ask him how much more he wanted to know other than the fact that she's been married 5 times and has 5 daughters ranging from 18 yrs to 4 yrs of age. That should tell him plenty. But I didn't say a thing.<p> <p>Anyway, I'm so sorry for all the venting but I needed to open up with someone and who better than MB. I feel like I've just taken another stab in the heart like it was at the very start. He also knows the love I have for him because he told me that on the phone. <p>I was so naive & vulnerable. I don't know why I let him in again after I was getting stronger and now I feel so dumb for believing him when he told me he still loved me. <p>Someone please help me with advice &/or words of encouragement. I hope someone responds soon because I feel like my world has just come crumbling down on me again. We're divorced and that means no more friendship or anything. Please HELP. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

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First of all - you're not really dopey - you're just in the same boat as the rest of us.<p>I hope you've read the general welcome post on the first page of the forum and gotten an idea of Plan A and Plan B. <p>It does sound like your ExH is wantin t i test the waters again, and possibly wanting the best of both worlds. It's up to you now to decide what to do. Now that you're divorced you can do a modified Plan A - basically trying to stop LBing so that he doesn't see a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide. <p>Supposedly if you Plan A and the other person continues to hurt you then your love units become depleted and you eventually stop loving him and then you're no longer hurt.<p>You could also so a Plan B - no contact except about the kids - somehting akin to a letter from Love Must Be Tough. It's hard to do, but someitmes it's necessary to keep from being hurt.<p>You have to first decide what you want and then do it- do you want to try and wait a little while longer and Plan A until the A dies - or do you wnat to move on. It's your choice. Hang in there. K

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dopey Offline OP
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Thanks so much for responding GIC. It sure does help just to hear advice from others.<p>I guess I've come to the end of my rope and no longer want to hurt. I feel that I've been very generous to him but I still feel like he's crapped on me and don't want to feel the way I do anymore. I did notice that the nicer I was to him the more loving he wanted to be with me. I've decided to Plan B and move on. I just pray that God gives me the strength to stand my ground. <p>I guess it had always been difficult not to talk to him because we were best friends as well as spouses. But I've accepted the fact that that can be no more. <p>Thank you so much for your reply. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

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I also do not believe that you are dopey - I really don't have any advice but I can see myself in your shoes - I am getting a divorce the beginning stages and my husband is still hanging around with me -doing things at the house - talking to me about what kind of furniture he should buy for his apartment etc.. And basically like you my hopes keep going up and down - he has made it very clear that he wants a divorce because he isn't in love with me - loves me still but - you know the line - The friendship part I am doing I thought like you for my girls also but I really am not setting a good example am I ?? Everyone around us does not like him and they can't figure out why I am the only one who does - How have you been getting on with your life - since you were divorced?? That I believe is the hardest part - I have been with my husband for 19 years - married for 15 in August - and I guess I am just looking at it like I can't imagine him not in my life at all - but I am not thinking clearly am I??? Divorce doesn't equal friendship does it??? Any suggestions for me?? You have come real far and you sound like you are a strong person -

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I agree with the rest.. your NOT DOPEY....just human.. and it is very normal to feel and think the way you do in OUR situation.<p>You and I`m sure many other people on here do not know me, but I am an old timer.. been coming to MB for three and a half yrs now.. mostly lurking, unless I see something that pertains to my situation.. I was not a firm MB follower, either.. My ex never gave me the time of day the first yr gone, because "I" was too angry and hurt to deal with it.. and when I was ready, it was just too hard for me to do.. <p>I am the type to wear my heart on my sleeve, and I felt everything I said and did, or did not do or say, reflected on me big time.. my ex tore apart and misconscrewed all of it.. and there for it was a no win situation (FOR ME)<p>the reason I am writting you, is, after my ex was gone, and I was at terms with what was to be, (our divrce, in which I still do not have the final papers, which you`ll understand at the finish of my explaining) he decided to make a come back, WITH HIS/OUR WEDDING RING on, as though I was going to fall deep into his arms and forgive all that he put me through.. <p>well needless to say, our paper work had been delayed in the beginning, due to my tyring to stop it, and after 2 yrs I was so ready and couldn`t wait and they still never came.. low and behold my ex was thinking about the come back for 6 mths, pryer to doing so, and then 6 mths went by with us, ACTING like friends.. and litterally thats all that came of it.. <p>I saw he was still confused, and was still seeing, perdue, (my nick name for his OW) and now he is also seeing the ex g/f he was living with before we met, and he left, for me.. so he is in lala land and still in such deep fog.. I think he has made a home out of this circus he is living.. and I told him straight out, after being nice and waiting ONCE AGAIN, (we dated for three yrs before marriage, so wasn`t doing that again)
that I am tired of his indecissiveness, and he had to make a commitment.. well he won`t do that.. so here I am again, moving o.. <p>he set me back only 6 mths.. but the emotions did take antoher tole on me, and I am just getting back to where I was a yr ago.. which is fine with letting go, and making my life peacful again.. <p>the good thing that came of this was we can now talk civily for our daughters sake.. the bad thing is, he not only set me back he set our daughter back as well.. he originally approached her, telling her first that he wanted to come back and make a go of it again withe me.. and she had her heart set on this, so she is as dissappointed as I am again.. but the good news is we are older, and stronger for all his mishaps.. and we have learned and grwon from it all.. <p>the thing is.. life is a choice.. you do what you feel is right or best at that given moment, and let no one alter your inner voice.. what comes of it, is all a good lesson.. sad, at times, that what will be, will be.. and that is not always a happy ending.. but it is what you do with that decission, and the time you have to make that decission that leads to the out come.. <p>
I can only wish you peace and harmony.. and do your self a favor, and change you name.. you are no less a person then any one else on this earth.. make the best of what you do have.. your health, your kids, and the rest of YOUR LIFE.. and with or with out him..<p>life is what YOU MAKE OF IT.. so have fun, and make you happy.. and the rest will follow suit. I can promise you that much.. <p>take care....AV

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Oh, what a post I can sink my teeth into!
I could almost have written it. You can do a search on my member number to piece the whole saga together, but I want to post to you some of my journal entries from the past few months to - it is LONG, but worth a read. I understand exactly where you are - I have been there. <p>Married for 15 years, divorced in January. No affairs before the divorce, but a complete breakdown in trust and communication between us.
I have changed the names, and refer to the woman he dated after our divorce as OW for easy reference, even though technically she wasn't an OW:<p>Tuesday, March 5, 2002
6:55 p.m High School gym
Waiting for the kick-off rally for Invest in (x-town) to begin. Middle Son (MS) is singing with the 4th grade. I am trying not to sob. Trying not to catch anyone&#8217;s attention. So far, it&#8217;s working. Perhaps I am invisible. That suits me.
This is his night to have them, but here I am. Spineless. No, not exactly true. I am here because I want to be. We do what we want to do. I want to be where my children are. I want to be where my family is. I want to have a family.
XH had a lunch date today. I didn&#8217;t even have lunch. Somewhere there is some irony in that. My brain is too thick to unscramble it, though. It is like there is a fog surrounding all my thoughts and I am operating in quick sand &#8211; slow to move, not sure which way us up, guess this is why they invented the saying &#8220;in deep ****&#8221;. That is what this is like. Knee deep in ****.
Why do I keep snooping for scoop on what he is doing and with whom? It just hurts worse. Do I enjoy inflicting more pain on myself? Do I somehow think I deserve to feel even worse than I already do? How can that be possible?
Whatever shape that relationship takes and whatever the future of it is, WILL NOT be impacted one whit by my knowing or not knowing a single detail. Logically, this makes sense to me. That is as far as it goes.
He is embarking on something with her that I am not a part of. He doesn&#8217;t want me. HE DOES NOT LOVE ME. Better to acknowledge that so I can get to that stage of the process called acceptance.
Oh, ****. I feel it welling up again. I swear it is like a bubble in my chest that gets to the top of my throat and just sits there. Like the stone in front of the tomb. Only it has been there much longer than the 3 days from Good Friday to Easter (which actually is only 2 days). And I wish my angel would get here to roll it away. I can&#8217;t breathe. I can&#8217;t swallow. I can hardly move.
My God, those girls in those Southern Belle dresses look ridiculous. Why does this community that is filled with educated, stylish and savvy people think it is a good PR move to have 20 high school girls parade around like Scarlet O&#8217;Hara wannabes. Mountain Brook would never do that. It is so cheesy. Younger Daughter (YD) will probably be one when she is 16 and I&#8217;ll regret ever thinking that. I already regret so much, it is a familiar place to be.
I honestly think if it wouldn&#8217;t hurt the kids so much, I would just drive into a truck or off a bridge. But, it is so unfair to them. I just don&#8217;t get to do that. I probably would chicken out anyway. Too narcissistic. Isn&#8217;t that what my counselor would say? Nineteen months in therapy and I have learned that I love myself. Oh, really? No, that is cheap. I have learned a lot. But, I can&#8217;t seem to apply the lessons. I can&#8217;t seem to do much of anything. He says this is good. In therapy the worse you feel, the better it is working. Kinda like reverse medicine. Oh, this feels like ****? Good let&#8217;s up the dose. Maybe the next session will kill you!
These high school kids are so darling and full of life. They have so much ahead and not an inkling of how bad they are going to **** it up. It&#8217;s really better that they don&#8217;t know. I used to think I would like to know just how my life was going to turn out. When I was going to die. Like reading the last page of a book first. I was so stupid.
I am so sick of pretending that everything isn&#8217;t ****ed up.
&#8220;How are you?&#8221;
&#8220;Just Fine.&#8221;
Biggest lie in modern society. Not one person is just fine. Ever.
But back to now. Live in the moment, remember.
I am going to do my best to go dark &#8211; a 180. He probably won&#8217;t even notice, but at least maybe I can salvage a hair of self-esteem. No calling the office. No e-mails. Certainly, no sex. And no snooping. ACT AS IF!! Isn&#8217;t that good 12 step practice? Fake it till you make it? <p>There is no try. There is only do.
Yoda<p>Do not try to act as if you are okay. Act as if you are okay. This is different from actually being okay. But, aren&#8217;t we just back to pretending. Well, maybe if I just do it with him. Pretending is survival.
Why do I want him back? I can&#8217;t get my head around that one. All of the natural responses, like I love him, don&#8217;t seem to be complete. True, perhaps. But, not the whole story. There is more in there. Need to unpack the deal. I hate unpacking.
The middle school choir just began the National Anthem. Good, there is my legitimate excuse to let loose some of these tears. Ok. Now I am listening to the program.<p>Tuesday, March 05, 2002
11:04 p.m. The Apartment
I can&#8217;t seem to call this place, &#8220;the place I live&#8221;. Certainly not home. It is like my clothes live here. And my mother&#8217;s furniture lives here. And even a few pieces I collected myself (or we did) over the past 15 years live here. But, I just shower and sleep and occasionally eat a bowl of soup here. You would have to be living to live somewhere.
Well, the 180 worked like a charm (note the sarcasm). When I took MS home (now, that is interesting &#8211; I have no trouble identifying home and it is not here). I wasn&#8217;t even going to go in. Just drop him off. I couldn&#8217;t do it. My rationale was that I had YD&#8217;s star and needed to kiss her and Older Son (OS)goodnight. I&#8217;ll just run in for a second.
XH was upstairs and followed me down and we talked in the entry hall for a few minutes. He reached for my hand. Held me. I knew I looked good. Made sure of it before I left. Losing 25 pounds hasn&#8217;t hurt &#8211; certainly not in his eyes. But, as good as the outside looks &#8211; the inside is just the opposite. It is like a lovely, well maintained sewer plant. Looks good. Full of ****. Bet my counselor would have a field day with that one.
Anyway, I let him hold me. I even held him back. I had this recurring thought to look longingly into his eyes, pull away and say &#8220;I&#8217;ll talk to you later.&#8221; Then slip silently out the front door. That is how a textbook 180 would be done. No, I cried a little. Not the wracking sobs of late that result in puffy eyes and a snotty nose. That wouldn&#8217;t be pretty. Just soft tears and just a few. Then I let him kiss me and I began to kiss him back. When &#8220;WHAT ARE YOU DOING?&#8221; came crashing center stage, I just let my mind go black. Just feel. Don&#8217;t think.
We made love on the dining room floor. It was making love. It is love. It is love. He knows it. He feels it. He is scared to feel it. Scared that I am the same person I was 2 years ago. Scared that I will hurt him if he lets me in. I won&#8217;t. Because I am not.
But, that is not something that can be told. It must be understood from the inside. It must be demonstrated and proven by action &#8211; not word. And certainly not intention.
That is why I made love to him. For us, the physical connection may be the strongest link we have. If it can be maintained and nurtured, then maybe there is the possibility that our love can be restored. Our relationship can begin anew.
I truly don&#8217;t know what I am doing. I don&#8217;t know if the things I am doing are right or healthy or in my best interest. I ask God all day to give me billboards. Help me discern. Don&#8217;t be subtle. SHOW ME WHAT TO DO. I know he hears me. He is probably sick of me asking the same thing over. Just like a child. &#8220;Can we momma?&#8221; &#8220;Can we?&#8221; &#8220;When, momma?&#8221; &#8220;Are we there yet?&#8221;&#8230;
&#8220;No, sweetie, we aren&#8217;t.&#8221;<p>Friday, March 8, 2002
Afternoon, The Office
Just left my counselor' office and really opened up with him all the conflicting emotions I am feeling. Yesterday when I took XH to the airport he kept making comments about how good I look, defined calfs, what color panties am I wearing?.. He knows I look good. Hell, I do look good. I look better than I have in YEARS. I weight 125 (thought it was closer to 120, and it will be by next weekend). I am tan. My face is thin, eyes are clear. Nails are growing and not picked to the nubs. Legs are tight. Stomach is way flat. Hair is blonde, straight and shiny. I feel like a million bucks and I love it when I look in the mirror and feel proud of what I see. But, am I doing all this to get a reaction out of him. Do I just need his validation that I look good? What is that?
It seems as if I am still trying to &#8220;win&#8221; his love. The old &#8220;if I am just thin, pretty, smart, agreeable&#8230;. Fill in the blank ENOUGH then he will love me&#8221;. I must remember that I am enough. I don&#8217;t have to try to become enough. But it is so hard to remember something if you don&#8217;t know it in the first place. So, actually, the first step is to LEARN that I am enough &#8211; then, certainly, I am smart enough to remember it.
If he isn&#8217;t going to love me and want me, then morphing into something I think may please him is only a band-aid. I need him to either really love me &#8211; or really leave me alone.
When he got out of the car, I said, &#8220;do you have everything you need?&#8221; and he said, &#8220;No, I need you in Miami&#8221;. I said, &#8220;I need you too&#8221;. I started crying. Cried all the way to my Doctor's office. But, I did notice that he didn&#8217;t say &#8220;I need you&#8221;, he said &#8220;I need you in Miami&#8221;. Does that mean he would like to have me there to screw and have great sex with and have physical fun and lay in the sun and enjoy each other&#8216;s bodies? Or does it mean he really needs me and I am reading too much into it?
Not my job to figure out what he means and then try to accommodate myself to that end. That is what I have done all my life with everybody.
What I told Kaczor today is that I am spending too much time trying to guess what he needs and be that and not enough time trying to figure out and discern what I need. What do I need? What do I even want?
My counselor said I want to be loved (just like everybody), but does it have to be XH that loves me? I think it does. But, maybe I am just still in such the early stages of grief that I don&#8217;t know the answer to that. I want it to be him. We don&#8217;t always get what we want.<p>The AHA moment has to do with the snooping and my insatiable desire for information on what he is doing with these other &#8216;relationships&#8217;. I hate knowing the details. It hurts so much. And yet, like an addict I can&#8217;t stop myself from digging to find out. But, here is where the epiphany comes in &#8211; my counselor said the snooping is really the same thing as the lying and hiding that I used to do. It is the other side of the same coin. It is my old behavior in a different costume. This makes so much sense to me. If I am going to implement real changes in myself and become the person I want to be with or without Jamie, then all sides of dishonesty must be halted. If he is lying to me (overtly or covertly) then that his to own and his to deal with. I CAN ONLY CHANGE ME.<p>Monday, March 11, 2002
11:21 a.m. Office
XH just called from Miami and said he is coming home tonight instead of tomorrow. His friend is picking him up from the airport. I will wait at the house till he gets there (kids will be in bed). See him for a minute and then go home (I am calling the apt. home &#8211; we&#8217;ll see how long that lasts). His house is clean, fridge is stocked, all is well. Did I do all that for him or for me. For him because I am a nice person and I want to do nice things for him because I love him? For me because I want him to recognize how great I am and how much he needs me? Do I look like a doormat or a nice, loving person? What is in my heart is that I did it because I wanted to. I wanted to because I do love him and because I do want him to love me. I feel good about doing it. I am not expecting anything but a thank you. <p>I have 2 tickets to Five for Fighting this Saturday. I want to ask him to go. I am scared to ask my companion of 16+ years out. The worst he can say is no. Then I will ask someone else (like probably Beth or Wendy or Mary). But, he will know I wanted him to go. If he doesn&#8217;t want to go, he won&#8217;t. If he doesn&#8217;t want to go, I will move another step away from this fantasy in my mind. I think I have nothing to lose by asking. I will gain knowledge either way. <p>Tuesday, March 12, 2002
10:00 a.m. Office
Last night I walked 2 ½ miles at the ballpark while MS practiced, went to the house, took a shower, fed the kids, watched some TV, vacuumed some more&#8230;.Shaved, lotioned, dried my hair, scrubbed face and applied very slight make-up, cute panties, tank top, new robe&#8230;. You know where this is going. After the kids were in bed, I sat down to watch the news and dozed for a couple of minutes. I woke up before he got home, and went downstairs as he was coming in the front door. He hugged me, kissed me and we went upstairs. I told him I was going to gather up my stuff and leave, but that I had gotten sleepy. He said, &#8220;please don&#8217;t leave&#8221;. Well, the easy mark that I am, that is all it took. We kissed more deeply. He quickly got ready for bed and we had a wonderful time and fell asleep in each other&#8217;s arms. We never used to do that when we were married. What am I doing?
I know he loves me. I know he cares for me. I just don&#8217;t know if anything has really changed other than our renewed interest in each other physically. I am still scared to ask him out for Saturday. Scared - ?? What in the hell am I scared of? That he&#8217;ll say no? That he&#8217;ll say yes? Who am I and how did I get in this handbasket?<p>Thursday, March 14, 2002
9:02 p.m. The Apartment
OS and I are here alone tonight. He is watching Billy Madison &#8211; stupid movie. XH was out of town from last Thursday till Monday night. I spent the night with him Monday night when he got back. Left in the early dawn Tuesday before the kids got up. Stealing away in the night like a co-ed with a shack pack. This is not a life. This is not enough. Crumbs are not enough to sustain me. I know this and yet I am still picking them up from under his table.
I bought two tickets to Five for Fighting Saturday night. I asked XH to go. He has not answered. His response will speak so much. If he is not able to bring himself to actually go out with me, I must must must end the sexual relationship and begin to put a life together for myself that does not include him in any role except as the father of the kids. He is conflicted. I am conflicted. I don&#8217;t even know if I really want him back, but I know I want him to want me.
We spoke on the phone earlier tonight and he said he would call me in a little while. I will be strong. I will maintain my self-esteem no matter what he says. My future and my life are not dependent on him. <p>Thursday, March 21, 2002
7:04 a.m. The Apartment
Here I sit drinking coffee and typing when I should be in the shower. I need to leave here in 30 minutes and I sit. My brain and heart and body are still not working in sync with one another. It is like they are a committee that cannot make a decision &#8211; isn&#8217;t that what committees do? We didn&#8217;t go to the concert, but we did spend the night together at the house, I cooked dinner and we talked a good bit. No resolution. But, some honest conversation.
I have pretty much stopped snooping. Even talked to XH about my decision to do so &#8211; that it doesn&#8217;t fit with my desire to be an honest and open person. The AHA moment with the counselor has made some impact. However, a couple of nights ago, I signed on to his remote network with the intention of checking his email &#8211; when the screen came up it was blank. Is that some divine intervention or what? Seemed sort of billboardish to me.
I woke this morning to a dream of reading an e-mail between him and OW &#8220;I can&#8217;t wait to hold you&#8230;&#8221; &#8220;The kids will be gone this weekend, we can spend hours with each others bodies&#8230;&#8221; these were the words on the page in my head. I didn&#8217;t fall apart. I didn&#8217;t even cry. I just got up and made coffee. In the first place, it was just a dream. In the second place, if it is true then that is to be and he and I are not to be &#8211; at least right now. I am trying, trying to accept that what is, is. And what is, is what is supposed to be right now and it is ok and God is in it.
Oh, yeah, there is no try. There is just do.
So much to remember. <p>Sunday, March 24, 2002
8:03 a.m. The Apartment
We talked last night and I said some things I needed to say. He babbled more fogeese. He says if it is God&#8217;s will that we end up together then that is what will happen. I told him that God&#8217;s will doesn&#8217;t always happen &#8211; i.e. it was not God&#8217;s will that 2 airplanes fly into those buildings and yet people made decisions that caused that. He said, &#8220;Yeah, I know.&#8221; I told him that we had to decide to make it happen and had to decide to do the work.
I also told him that he didn&#8217;t really understand yet what it was to be divorced and that was partly my fault. I am still mopping his floor and sucking his [censored] and that I shouldn&#8217;t do those things. I also told him I am confused as to whether I even want him back or just want him to want me. That sometimes I think about my role in our relationship&#8217;s demise and feel tremendous guilt, but that he played a part a too. He isn&#8217;t a saint for Christ&#8217;s sake. Let one of these other women have him and see what they have won. WHAT IS MY PROBLEM!!
I came home, read 3 chapters of Dark Night and went to bed. I am going to church to pray for him and for me and for OS, MS and YD. They deserve to have us do the work. He is an ******* if he doesn&#8217;t get that. If he would rather build something with OW or god forbid that Sheri (fling at his office) person, then he isn&#8217;t the man I want and need anyway. I deserve to get to be loved as I am for the good person I am and I AM ENOUGH. I am through trying to prove that to him or to anyone else. God made me enough and I am. I am a wonderful person for someone to love and no, it does not have to be him. <p>Monday, March 25, 2002
3:50 p.m. Office
I had lunch with our priest today and told him everything going on. He is so wonderful. He told me just what I thought he would, stop having sex with him. He said he believes it is 99% hormonal. XH is a man after all. I am continuing to abuse myself. Set myself up for hurt&#8230; all the things I know in my head. He also said, why do I want to be with someone who cut and ran. When the going got tough, Jamie got going. I know, I know. And goddammit that hurts like hell. I want so much to believe that he realizes he made a mistake. That he knows how wonderful I am and that he desperately needs me to love him and forgive him for divorcing me. Okay, now that I am back in reality &#8211; I know Father x is right. I must. I must. I must. I even told him that like an addict, all I could promise was one day at a time.<p>He also said, OW has the depth of a snail. Oh my dear Jesus, how I loved that. He said, I mean, &#8220;come on, she doesn&#8217;t compare to you in beauty, or love or intelligence or any thing.&#8221; Let him have her. Let them have each other. I must keep this mantra. HE DIVORCED ME. LET HIM BE DIVORCED.
<p>Tuesday, April 2, 2002
10:34 a.m. Office
Had dinner out with XH last week after my conversation with the priest. I told xh what John and I discussed (leaving out the depth of a snail comment). We talked and talked. He is so confused. I sincerely hope he will seek counseling for himself as he says he is going to do. Talking is so helpful, even though I still do what I want and am not very good at taking advice. The night of our &#8220;date&#8221; I spent the night. Then on Wednesday I left for the beach. Came home with the kids on Saturday and spent the entire weekend (till Monday a.m.) at the house. He kept saying, &#8220;don&#8217;t go, please stay&#8221; and like a fool, I did. Maybe I am also addicted to him. I agree with every single thing our priest said to me and yet I can&#8217;t (won&#8217;t) do it. I won&#8217;t let him be divorced. <p>Tuesday April 9, 2002
2:16 p.m. The Office
Same issues. Same ****. Same up and down. I can&#8217;t find any peace or closure in anything. Guess this is still about patience and trusting and letting go. We keep repeating the same lessons until we learn them. How many F&#8217;s do I have to get &#8211; and usually I am such a good student. Not in this. Not in life. I am failing. <p>I just feel like I don&#8217;t know anything and I don&#8217;t know when I will know anything. And not just about my legal issues.<p>Every interaction with xh brings out this old, worn-out, internal time-table (like a ticking clock) that is begging for some understanding, some closure, some acknowledgement of a future date at which time there will be closure&#8230;. I know it makes no sense. But, I feel it. I don&#8217;t even know what I want, I just want something. I just want some non-floundering, yes or no. Why must I have that? Is any answer better than no answer? <p>Back to the lesson. Patience, trust and letting go. I cannot get it. I cannot grasp it. Therefore I am doomed to continue to run smack into the wall over and over. Like a blind person in a room with no door. What the **** is wrong with me???<p>I will not call him. I will not call him. I will not call him. I will not call him. Repeat on the board 500 times. Then clean the erasers. <p>Tuesday April 9, 2002
6:39 a.m. The Apt
I am still stuck. Allowing his will and wishes to dictate not only how and what I do, but more importantly how I feel. How can I stop this? He did miss me. He called at the beach all the time. Told me &#8220;Don&#8217;t tell anyone, but I miss you.&#8221; **** you. Tell me when you are ready to tell someone. I think OW must have cooled her heels &#8211; maybe rich man wanted her back, or Drummond got possessive or she figured out xh didn&#8217;t have deep pockets&#8230; whatever. Saturday night was XH's office party at his boss's house and the office fling person wanted him to come home with her. He says he declined. But, she called his house at 1:30 in the morning. What is that? Bigger &#8211; why am I trying to figure it out.
He misses me. He wants me. He runs to me, I turn toward him and he runs away. Sunday night we all ate dinner together and he didn&#8217;t want me to leave. His eyes and words begged me to stay. I should&#8217;ve just kissed the kids and walked out. Instead I spent the night, came here at 6:00 am to shower and get ready and raced back with DOUGHNUTS to take the kids to school so he can get to the office early since he had a trial. Then last night he leaves them with the sitter till after 9:00, so he can &#8220;stop by the watering hole&#8221; for a beer. They had not eaten, they weren&#8217;t in bed&#8230; I let him have it this morning. I said, I would rather them be with me than with a sitter, so if you can&#8217;t wait till I have them to plan a night out, then let&#8217;s work something else out. He said, &#8220;I understand, it wasn&#8217;t planned, it just happened&#8221;. Yeah, I bet it did. I also told him I couldn&#8217;t read code and I was confused by his mixed signals. So, one solution to that is just to QUIT TRYING TO READ THEM. The doing it is where I get hung up. Action. Not a woman of action. Well, at least not a woman of healthy and self-interested action.
I am my own best friend. I am my own best friend. I have known this since I was 4. I have tried for years to substitute something/someone for this role, and have never been successful. I should have no trouble operating this way since it is so familiar for me, but I am trying to change the unhealthy part of being an island while maintaining the strong identity and self-esteem of an independent person. It is like trying to eat a steak and not have ANY fat in it &#8211; my behaviors and thought patterns are marbled like a filet. Hard to separate. Maybe I should just switch to chicken &#8211; the fat on there is around the edge, much easier to navigate. But, I am not chicken, I am steak. Isn&#8217;t it Melanie Griffith in &#8220;Working Girl&#8221; who says to Nick, her boyfriend, &#8220;I am not steak, you cannot just order me&#8221;. Great line.
But, I am not Melanie Griffith and apparently, I am steak.<p>
Thursday, April 11, 2002
12:13 a.m. The Apartment &#8211; where I live
Twenty-four years ago today I started my official relationship with my first &#8220;REAL&#8221; boyfriend. DG asked me to &#8220;go&#8221; with him in the hallway of Neely&#8217;s Bend Junior High beside my locker and the course of my life changed forever. I guess one could say that about every moment. Every moment defines another. Some we just seem to designate more than others as significant and monumental. I assign significance to my relationship with DG for a number of reasons &#8211; many more than the typical &#8220;first&#8221; kinds of things. One, I learned very quickly how to get a person&#8217;s attention &#8211; both his and my mother&#8217;s. And what I did mattered &#8211;at least to him it did. I also learned from him the incredible power of physical attraction and how to make that work for me &#8211; at least how to make it work for me &#8220;for the moment&#8221;. I feel sure everyone learns this in their first boy/girl relationship, but everyone is not coming into that so deprived for affection and attention. Had I not been so starved for validation, I am sure I would not have entered into a sexual relationship so early. I wish for my children to not have the need to seek such validation. When it comes it is wonderful, but 13 year olds are not capable of properly managing such a relationship. It was the start of me having to pretend to know all and be able to handle all. What a sick joke.
I talked to him on the phone today (earlier, Wednesday). I haven&#8217;t talked to him in at least 17 years. I think I was about 20 the last time we saw one another. We have been e-mailing since around October. He doesn&#8217;t know everything going on with me, but I have been fairly open that I am dealing with some big issues. He does know about the divorce. He is married and has 2 girls. I would bet his wife does not know about our contact. But, there is nothing improper going on and wouldn&#8217;t. Boy, that sounds defensive, doesn&#8217;t it? XH doesn&#8217;t know about our contact either. But, so what? I also don&#8217;t &#8220;KNOW&#8221; about his e-mail and phone contact with door number one, door number two&#8230;. He ain&#8217;t talking either. Ok. I hear myself. Am I hiding something? Am I thinking that Davy is the white knight? No, I don&#8217;t think so. I truly don&#8217;t. But, am I trotting out just a little nostalgia to prove once again that I have it? I can manipulate, I can win. Please tell me no. I am just trying to unpack. And the suitcase (trunk) I am unpacking is old, rusted, dirty and everything is wadded up and shoved inside. It is a mess. It is taking some time.
It was good to talk to him. I was honest. I hope it was good for him too. Years ago it ended badly (like just disappearing) when we broke up. I hope we can have closure and stay in touch. It is an important touch point in both of our lives. For me to acknowledge it (TO HIM) is enormous. Truly. I actually told him that an April 11 or a May 13 hasn&#8217;t come and gone in 24 years without a thought of him. I told another human my true feelings &#8211; what is actually in my head and heart (they are so intertwined, at least in me). Another human that I know and that has been close to me and that has known ME for a very, very long time. I told a person something deep in my heart. Now, because that person is my very first boyfriend and he is married and lives 3 hours away and has 2 children and does not know I am a felon &#8211; is this bad or good?
Perfect, more thinking to do. How about more giving up to do? Billboards requested. No sans-serif type, please.<p>Thursday, April 11, 2002
9:04 p.m. My house
I just put the kids to bed. XH is in Atlanta. I have snooped for the very last time. I am done. Through. Finito. He has a date Saturday night with the snail &#8211; a double date with xx (friend) and someone named Dottie. What the **** ever. I knew something was up. I knew. I could feel and see and sense the pulling away. So, I have to let it go. I am through. I am really, really through. I am going to build my very own life. My very own. Not his. Not connected to him in any way except of course the children. I am opening my heart to free him.
My heart will continue to break as he leaves it, but it will heal. It will heal. I will heal. I am enough.
Actually, I am a good bit more than enough. I am plenty. Good-n-Plenty. Maybe I should buy some of those to keep around.<p>Friday, April 12, 2002
10:40 a.m. The Office
Well, I did it. I had the conversation with xh this morning. I told him I ready to implement the changes from my e-mail of several weeks ago. I cannot do this anymore. It hurts too much. I told him that his words and his decisions and choices don&#8217;t go together and I have to believe what I see. Not what he says. I told him that the other night when he said he may be having dinner with xx (friend) on Saturday, that I knew what that meant (I am not stupid). He has a date with the snail. And if that is what he wants, then he is not what I need. I told him to leave me alone until he is no longer confused. He even says things like &#8220;I love how I feel when I am with you &#8211; safe and secure&#8221; and I am afraid when I am not with you. He says he is afraid that if I have to go to prison, I will not come back into his life. That I will change and grow so much in that year I won&#8217;t want him. He is afraid of that possibility &#8211; I guess of letting me back in now and then losing me again. I told him if it weren&#8217;t for the kids I would wish for prison &#8211; it would be like rehab from him.
I told him I need him to love me, validate me and support me. He can&#8217;t/won&#8217;t do that so I need to cut him out like cancer. I need to recover from my addiction to him.
I then went into the bathroom and fell to the floor and sobbed and ached and wretched. I hurt so bad, I just want to not feel this. I want to not feel like I am having my heart ripped out with no anesthesia. But, to begin the grief process I must feel. I must hurt. Just, please don&#8217;t let it last any longer than is absolutely necessary.
He has called back twice already. He said he wishes he could fix this. He wishes he could have us back. I told him it was up to him. He says he is going to counseling. He says he going to work on him. Again, action, not words are what I need.
He says all this and yet he is still going to dinner at (xplace) on Saturday night. I said, I don&#8217;t understand how you can beg me to stay with you and hold me and love me and three days later go out to dinner and screw OW. He says, &#8220;I am not having sex with anyone&#8221;, I should have called him Bill Clinton. But, what I said was, &#8220;that is next&#8221;. I mean she is attractive and all and of course he is sexually attracted to her. But, I told him that will feel good for about 10 minutes and then he will be right back to where he is now. Whatever. I can only change me. I can only set my boundaries. I can only get my own log out of my own eye. I am trying. I am begging for assistance.
Not two minutes after I get off the phone with him, Wendy calls. I am still sobbing. She just says, &#8220;I love you, come over after work&#8221;. Is that God or what? Then Barb called. Then Judy e-mailed. Then Davy e-mailed. The net is there. The net is strong. I am falling into it. I don&#8217;t have to pretend to be strong. I don&#8217;t have to try and fix all this myself. I can let God carry me. Please carry me. Please. <p>Tuesday, April 16, 2002
1:32 p.m. The Office
Well, it got a lot worse than that. On Friday night OS had baseball practice and I went over to Wendy&#8217;s for a little while after work, then went home about 7:30. They wanted me to go out to (place) for a birthday party for Bob whoever, but that did not feel right. So, I went home. Rented &#8216;Best in Show&#8217; and didn&#8217;t even laugh. Not once. Not one chuckle. Both Stevi and Phillip have said this is the funniest movie they have seen in years. I have the same sense of humor as the two of them and I sat through the whole thing just stoic. I should have known then. Gut check &#8211; something ain&#8217;t right. So, I called to say goodnight to the kids about 9:30 &#8211; no answer. Ding, ding, ding &#8211; what do we have for her Johnny? Something is definitely up. Amazingly, though I go to bed and I sleep for a few hours. Up at 2:30, asleep again at 3:30, up at 5:30&#8230;. Till I am up to go to the ballpark for MS&#8217;s 9:00 game. I couldn&#8217;t get my balance. Couldn&#8217;t concentrate. Took a tranxene. Didn&#8217;t seem to help. Anyway, XH says, &#8220;How are you, you don&#8217;t seem to be doing too well&#8221;. What a rocket scientist. Finally, I had to walk away and call Barbara and Dawn and sob and sob and sob on the phone. I literally wanted to walk out into 31 and let a truck take care of it. The pain of seeing him, of knowing he had a date a few hours later, of feeling so completely and utterly rejected was so close to overwhelming.
After MS&#8217;s game, I was sitting up on the hill talking with Barb and MS casually mentioned that they had played video games last night at Dave&#8217;s Pizza while daddy talked to &#8220;Ryan&#8217;s Mom&#8221;. I lost color vision. I had to leave. I just got in the car and left. I had just asked XH on Friday to please not introduce any women into their lives at this point. He said, &#8220;do you mean without talking to you first?&#8221; I said, &#8220;at least without talking to me first&#8221;. I mean, what an idiot. I MEAN NOT AT ALL! So, to find this out from my child &#8211; lie #1 was like being kicked in the stomach.
We talked on the phone later, amidst much screaming, crying, wailing, cussing and literally breaks to throw up, the whole sordid mess (or at least more of it than I had up to this point) came spilling out. He met her on Friday there &#8211; saw her for about 20 minutes (right), has not had sex with her (??), HAS ****ed Sheri (!!!!)&#8230;. It was surreal. I wrote a will, but didn&#8217;t have the presence of mind to hook up the printer to print it so I could sign it and I didn&#8217;t think it would be valid without a signature. Since my NY Life policy still has him as the beneficiary, I didn&#8217;t want him to get that money without instructions from me and I swear my inability to print and sign a document kept me alive for a few hours on Saturday afternoon. I knew how selfish it would be. I knew how devastating it would be. I didn&#8217;t care. I just had to stop the pain. Then, somehow, I kept breathing. I just kept asking God to let the ground hold me up, let oxygen fill my lungs and please bring me a sail. He did.
At one point, our dialogue went something like this:
Me: I could go out and **** the first 15 guys I find and it wouldn&#8217;t hurt you like this does me because you don&#8217;t love me. Why don&#8217;t you love me?
Him: The only thing I know to say is honest, &#8230;. I do love you. I do love you, M.
Me: I sure hope you can figure out some different routines to demonstrate that.<p> I washed my face, brushed my teeth and got in the car to go get the kids. As I left his house he said, &#8220;My heart is beating 1000 beats a minute&#8221;. I said, &#8220;Mine is hardly beating at all. It is broken into 1000 pieces.&#8221; And I left. I somehow had the strength (from God, not from me) to drive away. Took the kids to see The Rookie. Great movie, lots of hope about sticking with your dream and patience and timing and using gifts God gives us. I hardly looked at my watch. When we came home we watched another baseball movie, Bull Durham &#8211; pretty inappropriate for OS and MS, but I let it go. I even allowed myself to enjoy watching Dennis Quaid and Kevin Costner and imagine a life where some fabulous looking guy loves me and needs me and most importantly wants me. Wants to be with me. Somebody real and somebody deep. I want that person to be XH. I really do. But, if it isn&#8217;t going to be, then I want to move on because I cannot stay here. Cannot stay in this place.
I slept. Don&#8217;t know how, but it doesn&#8217;t matter.
Sunday, we went to church. He called right before the Great Thanksgiving. I grabbed the phone and turned it off. Not before seeing that he was at least calling from home. I had actually considered dropping the kids off at church and running over to her house to see if his car was there. Luckily, it was just a fleeting thought.
Sunday afternoon I took OS back to church for a trip with his class to the Ronald McDonald House and YD and I went to the zoo. That child loves the zoo more than anything. MS wanted to go play in the neighborhood, so I dropped him off. Literally, pulled up to the curb, opened the door and let him out. Afterwards XH brought him back to my apartment and he looked like hell. I had fixed spaghetti and asked if he would like a plate (knowing it is his least favorite meal &#8211; actually didn&#8217;t think of that till that moment, some subconscious). He said, yes. So, he ate. I even ate a little. Only thing besides a handful of movie popcorn that I had put in my mouth all weekend. We went into the kids room and I said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what to say to you&#8221;. I sat down on the bed and we just kind of fell into each other&#8217;s arms and held each other for a long, long time. He kept saying, I love you. I love you. I don&#8217;t know anything else, but I know I love you.
Oh, dear God, if this is love let it be. Open our hearts to reconciliation. Open our hearts to forgiveness and give us the strength and courage to love and serve you within the context of our little family of five.<p>Tuesday, April 23, 2002
10:22 The Office
This incessant focus on him and what he is or isn&#8217;t doing is so NOT WORKING for me. I place way too much emphasis on every nuance of every conversation or lack thereof. Why can&#8217;t I let go? Why can&#8217;t I move on? Why do I give a ****. Last Tuesday night, I dropped off his glasses at (local bar) &#8211; saw his car there and went in on my way over to (my friend&#8217;s) for supper club. He was sitting at a table in the bar with the office ho. I just handed him the glasses, said, &#8220;thought you might need these&#8221; and walked out.
He called within 5 minutes &#8211; begging me not to hang up &#8211; listen to him&#8230; So and So had just left, it was innocent, he was sorry&#8230; I just listened, but detached. Went to my friend&#8217;s and had a good time. But, then, then, at 10:45 I stopped by there and saw him. We made love on the sofa. What on earth is my problem? I must, must stop this.
I know he is seeing and talking to OW. I know he is not through with office ho. I must move on. I must grasp my own life and stop depending on him for any validation. I hold the key to my freedom. I can and I must take responsibility for myself and let others do what they may.
He loves me. I love him. That may not be enough. <p>Tuesday, April 23, 2002
5:37 p.m. My house
I am about to go pick up the children and head to the ballpark. I am trying, trying to detach and it is a struggle. I don&#8217;t know what I want. I don&#8217;t even know what would make me happy anymore. No conflict. No turmoil. No lies. Feeling loved and valued. Feeling enough. That would make me happy. I cannot depend on that externally. Must let God grace me with it from within. An inside job. It is an inside job.<p>Thursday, May 2, 2002
2:00 p.m The Office
Last night MS had a game (made up from the night before) and we didn&#8217;t realize it because we didn&#8217;t get the message. So, anyway, I had to race him back home to get game ready and then tried to get XH to let him know. Left messages at work and on his cell. Finally he answered the cell at 8:05 (25 minutes into the game) and I told him. I assumed (never do that) he would come on to the ballpark. No. Apparently whatever he was doing was more important than showing up at his son&#8217;s baseball game. It makes me sick. But, I mostly feel sorry for him instead of angry at him. I am hanging by the thinnest of threads to life and yet, I am healthier than he is. Not that it is a contest. I just understand where he is &#8211; running from everything. Hell, I&#8217;ve lived it. Yeah, I&#8217;d like to run too. But, where to? There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. I just have to keep slogging through it. I have exercised the greatest restraint and not asked one question. Not allowed a hint of anger or frustration into my voice. I know he has to be wondering about that. He told me this morning, &#8220;I&#8217;m sure you don&#8217;t believe this, but I think about you all the time.&#8221; I said, &#8220;No, I believe you.&#8221; He said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know how you do it. I am in awe and admiration of you dealing with what you are dealing with.&#8221; I just told I appreciated him telling me that. <p> I can&#8217;t fix him or change him or control what he does. My side of the street is all I can worry about. But, it is so hard. So hard.
<p>Monday, May 13, 2002
1:18 p.m. The Office
So much to write. So much to process. So many huge things have occurred over the past few days it is hard to separate the &#8216;events&#8217; from the &#8216;emotions&#8217;. But, I will try. Mainly because getting this on record is really helpful for my understanding and for my healing. Last Sunday (May 5) was OS's confirmation and we spent most of the day together as a family. XH was very friendly and loving and kept telling how good I look (broken record and yet I continue to want to hear it??..) Then as the week progressed he became more distant and as is the pattern with which I am now familiar he was moving away from me and I knew making plans and seeing snail. He acted weird all week. Then on Friday I knew something was up and sure enough, he was going to MENTONE with her. MENTONE &#8211; do you hear me?? Our Family Mountain house! In the first place, going out of town is a serious shove into semi-serious and to take her there. To our place. To our family place that has been so special for so many years. I was, needless to say, having a very difficult time. After dropping OS at baseball, I drove straight over to Philip and Barb&#8217;s and fell apart. Literally, almost couldn&#8217;t stand. They are so awesome. They just let me cry and ***** and they listened and they held me. I know this is progress to open up like this and allow somebody (anybody) to see how broken and beaten I am. I can&#8217;t handle it all. No ****? Then we talked and Philip, who never gives advice, said it is time for you to take care of you. It is time for you to listen to XH with your eyes and not your ears. He loves XH, of course. And he thinks he is genuinely confused (again &#8211; no ****?). But, the point is I can&#8217;t solve his confusion for him. I can&#8217;t fix this for him. Hello?? Where have I heard this before? Could this be another broken record? How long does it take me to HEAR and then ABSORB the message? <p> Well, I began to turn a corner. Really take those steps around the actual corner. We ate dinner, I took the kids home and watched Erin Brockovitch (good, strong, independent woman movie!) and I actually slept. Not for long, but I did. I didn&#8217;t lay there and toss and agonize and wonder and conjure up images &#8211; could this be growth?!
On Saturday morning, I got up determined to take my future into my hands and out of his. I e-mailed (mutual friend of ours who has been divorced for 5 years - DM) and gave him my number. I wanted to call, but that was way too scary and forward. I figured he would get the e-mail in the next few days and maybe or maybe not call me back. It seemed fairly low risk. He called in 15 minutes. He said he had wanted to call me for weeks and had inquired (from other mutual friends) and was basically told to &#8220;stay the **** away&#8221;. He is such the consummate bachelor and I think my friends were trying to protect my fragile state. Well, big girl I am. He asked me out for Saturday night and for Sunday afternoon (Crawfish Boil and Tennis Tournament). I said yes to both. The weight, you know the 55 pound one that has been sitting in the middle of my chest for 5 months, was lifted. And not because it was DM. I mean he is cute and fun and nice and I do know him (much better than a first date with a complete stranger). But, because somebody out there finds me attractive and desirable is not scared by my piles of **** &#8211; at least not too scared to have a first date. What a relief. What a statement about the future possibilities of life after XH. It was large. <p> Saturday afternoon at the ballpark XH showed up and looked haggard &#8211; guess an all night **** fest with probably tons of red wine will do that to you. I was easy going, no questions about anything, friendly, not cold, but not gushy. Right mix. He was less distant than he had been all week. More textbook pursue, run, pursue, run. I left and went home to get ready and go over to DM&#8217;s. I looked good &#8211; would you think any different? We hung out there a while and some other people came over and I had a really nice time. After the crawfish thing we came back there and talked on the porch a while. He asked me if he could kiss me and I said yes. It was actually quite nice. Strange (guess that is why they call it that), but very nice. <p> On Sunday morning XH and I talked and he asked what I was doing later and I told him about the tennis thing. He seemed fine till he asked who I was going to that with and I told him &#8220;You said you didn&#8217;t want to know&#8221;. Well, low and behold he had changed his mind and he did indeed want to know. When I said, &#8220;DM&#8221;, you could have heard a pin drop 4 miles away and then he said, &#8220;That&#8217;s interesting&#8221;. He began his descent into what has been my world since January 9. And especially since February 17 &#8211; which is when they had their first date of which I am aware. He was having difficult time. We met at Overton Park to eat subway sandwiches with the boys and after a few minutes he said he had to go. He said he couldn&#8217;t see me. He couldn&#8217;t stand this and he would miss me. Yes, familiar territory for me. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Plus, we are talking apples and oranges. Two dates versus a several-month-progressively-intensifying relationship. <p> He called me when I got home and was actually on the phone with me when Doug got there. It was surreal. After the tennis tournament, which was also fun, we came back to my house for a few minutes and then he had to go pick up his daughter and I was headed over to see the kids for Mother&#8217;s Day festivities. xh was in the family room when I got there, but escaped upstairs where I found him supine, face down on the bed. I hate seeing him like this. Because I know what it feels like (and more) and wouldn&#8217;t wish it on the Taliban. It really sucks. So we began a 4-hour discussion. Lots was said. Lots more was felt. He wants to start the process of exploring reconciliation. He wants his family back. Well, I have wanted to hear that for months, but I cannot let myself respond to what may just be a knee-jerk emotional response. Take this battered heart and throw it out there in the middle of I-65 one more time? That seems really risky. And, no, it isn&#8217;t DM. He is irrelevant to the process. The only relevance is the strength I feel from actually stepping out there successfully. If this was all it took, I should have gone out with DM (or Joe Schmo) 3 months ago. Saved myself a lot of grief. He asked me to stay and I said I would reluctantly. Then he said, no that isn&#8217;t fair &#8211; you go. Then he got really down and started talking about not being able to take it and he should just end it all (not in a threatening or manipulative way &#8211; real pain, which I understand) and I told him that I was first his friend and I would stay. I did and it was really good. Really ok and comfortable &#8211; even knowing he had been in bed with snail 2 days prior. Don&#8217;t know how I got through that. XH says I am more mature than he is. He may well be right.<p> This a.m. he went over to her house for coffee and told her he was going to embark on putting his marriage back together and couldn&#8217;t see her anymore. She was upset and feels duped (imagine?) and she has already called him back once. He will definitely continue to hear from her. I don&#8217;t know where I am. I don&#8217;t know what to trust. Neither does he. Thank God I am seeing my counselor tomorrow. How to move from here? Careful what you wish for.<p>Tuesday, May 14, 2002
9:00 a.m. The Office
I just re-read yesterday and realize I wrote much more about what happened than about how I feel about it all. I feel so many things it is hard to separate it all. I feel relief that I may have a future with XH. I feel scared that I am going to get hurt again. I feel scared that he can&#8217;t really love me the way I need him to &#8211; respect me and who I am and forgive me (REALLY forgive me) for the things I have done. I feel scared that I will resent him for not loving me like I needed him to for years. Maybe I don&#8217;t love him enough to really give myself to him. Maybe I am not capable of the kind of love he wants and needs. I think I am, but I haven&#8217;t demonstrated it with him &#8211; or ever, really.
I am scared I may resort to old patterns of not being honest with him about how I feel and holding things in to keep the peace. I am scared I can&#8217;t be me with him. He says that is what he wants. But, can I trust that? Can he trust me? Do we really want the same things? What are they?
He said last night he doesn&#8217;t think I am ready to try at reconciling. He thinks I have more &#8220;independent stuff&#8221; to get out of my system &#8211; like going out with DM again. I told him I am just scared. But, if this is what I have wanted since last August &#8211; why am I scared now? Do I really want him back or did I just want him to want me? I can&#8217;t believe that could be the case. I want us to parent our children together and grow old together and love each other in a real and mature and important way. At least, that is what I think I want. But, I am not sure. He is right. I am not sure. I am not certain that I can ever love him completely because I am not certain I can ever trust fully in his love for me. I want to be loved from the inside out. I know to get that, you have to give that. And I know I have not given that. But, can we give each other that kind of love? Can we? How to know?<p>Friday, May 24, 2002
2:54 p.m. The Office
I feel like I am getting a little closer to accepting what XH says as truth and letting myself believe we can have the relationship we want. OW continued to put the full-court press on him last week &#8211; told him it would never work to reconcile with me and he would end up looking like a fool for trying AND would pass on the opportunity of a lifetime with her. What a no-brainer. He says he told her he didn&#8217;t care how it looked or what the outcome was, he had to do it. He loves me and is in love with me and is sorry for hurting her. How can he be so sure? Am I still focusing on his thoughts and feelings to the detriment of mine?<p> I am somewhat ambivalent and that worries me. I know it worries XH, too. I am trying to get in touch with why I am questioning this when it is what I have thought I wanted for months. Now, here it is and I don&#8217;t know. Here is what I think is going on &#8211; either I am now very healthy and not sure if XH and I can actually have a new relationship and afraid that I will fall back into old patterns and behaviors with him (that I wouldn&#8217;t necessarily do with a new relationship because there obviously wouldn&#8217;t be that history) OR I still don&#8217;t like myself enough to want to allow myself to be happy and therefore must sabotage any effort to find happiness. I don&#8217;t think that is it. <p> Am I still thinking about DM? Yes. In what way? Like an infatuation. Like a fling. Like something fun and easy and with no risk. Reconciling with XH is highly risky for many people and now the pressure is on ME to decide to try or not. I liked it better when I got to play the martyr. When I was the victim &#8211; the sympathetic figure. Now, I feel like if I don&#8217;t do this it will all be my fault. And you know how I don&#8217;t like things to be my fault. So, am I still thinking of DM as a place to run from what is real? DM is not real. DM represents shopping or stealing or drinking or any other diversionary tactic to avoid dealing with TRUTH. Either the mature, smart and prayerful thing is to forget DM and MAKE this work with XH or maybe I am finally so confident in myself that I can trust my own decisions and not do what I should do just because everyone else thinks I should. Maybe those two things are not mutually exclusive. Or maybe they are. <p>Thursday, May 30, 2002
4:47 p.m. The Office
XH and I went out last night and had a really romantic dinner at (--) and then a really, really sexy and erotic evening at the house. I felt love for him from deep within. I do feel a very emotional bond with him. So, what is keeping me at such a distance? I think this is a large red flag that something (I don&#8217;t know what) is not right. Something is missing. What?
Why can&#8217; t I be &#8216;me&#8217; with him? Where is &#8216;me&#8217;? When I am with him, of all people on the planet, &#8216;me&#8217; doesn&#8217;t often show up. I hide. I run. I turn within. I want so much to be me with him, because I know how much he would really like/love/appreciate me. So, what is that?
And where, if anywhere, do these thoughts of a single life and an independent future fit? Maybe I just don&#8217;t want to answer to anybody and I continue to see Jamie as an authority figure. If that is it, I have to get over it. This morning I was nervous to ask him about money even though I had spent $53 on his sister&#8217;s birthday present and $115 at the grocery store for the house. Yet, I didn&#8217;t want to bring it up. I am $34 overdrawn and have NO MONEY and didn&#8217;t want to bring it up. I cannot take care of ME in the context of that relationship &#8211; I can only allow myself to take care of him. That will not do.<p>Well, this is just a glimpse - a very long, glimpse, into what has been going on over the past 4 months with our relationship. We are divorced, but we are defianately back together and it wasnt' going to happen until I finally and completely let go. I don't know how to explain that phenomenon, but it is real. He even has said that when he realized the boat was actually sailing without him in it - he couldn't stand it.<p>If you bothered to actually read all this and want to ask any questions, I'll be glad to try and post back to you.
Good luck and work on YOU!

Joined: May 2001
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You are not dopey. It is SO HARD living this way.
My H got involved in affair but still denies it. He filed, then was hanging around our home, doing things on weekends. We talked some & he said he didnt want to fight anymore & he filed for dismissal. He came home end of Jan. I found OW at his apt (only there 2 months total) when he said he was going over there to pack. Later that week, when he told me he'd be home late, I drove to OW's place and he was in parking lot. Tried to tell me he followed ME there, when he shoulve been 1 hr away "on the road". I had thought it was over between them. Then a few weeks ago, after he ignored our wedding anniversary (what's new!) and flat out refused to give us a chance when I asked him to over the phone, I caught another lie. He told me he would not come home after arriving in airport from out of state conference. That he would stay the night there so he could go back to office (works 1hr + drive away) and catch up on work. This was the 3rd time in a month. I drove to OW's place and his truck was there at 10:45PM. He heard my car I'm pretty sure, and came barreling home soon after. Some excuse about asking her a "question about work". Well, we all no longer work together. Couldnt it have waited til next day, and besides after all I've been thru he knows how I feel about her. Think he'd stay away since hes "trying in his own way" to work on our marriage?? Noope. So, I am done. But letting go is extremely hard. He is still at home, but has done nothing these past 4-5 months to indicate he wants to work on it at all. Only comes home 10 or 11PM to sleep & sleeps on family room floor all this time. No indication of caring or consideration from him anymore, . . NOTHING! He has said he will move to other town & file again, but there has been no action on his part, this last month. He tells me he is looking for apt, but it doesnt look like it really.<p>I often wonder if he would come to his senses when forced to depend on OW instead of me, even if we get divorced/finalized. I dont know that I could say no to him. But he has had his cake and eaten it too & I am done. My counselor once asked me "Why are you punishing yourself" and many (women) have told me "you're better off without him". I know that is true, but can't feel it in my heart still. I have been trying to do my own thing but its hard seeing him around the house & be depressed. But he WONT do anything to solve his own problems & emotional issues. I cant do it for him.<p>I have thought that for him to come back, he should be willing to SHOW ME that I could learn to trust him again, go out of his way to do so. Be with me, account for his time away from home (at least for a few months), show me his itemized cell phone bill, email on his lap top. Sleep with me, talk to me (kindly) and do things with me (movies, shopping, go for drives, picnic, friends parties etc). Earn my trust back. Then, if this happens I would think 'maybe' ? But he continuously denies affair and has not been willing to do any of the aboe to this point. He also has refused counseling for us & we would need this in a big way!! ( I currently go for individual counseling for myself). We do not have kids. He always postponed that idea. And I am not getting any younger! My babymaking years are coming to a close in the next 2 yrs or so!! <p>I am very angry and hurt and feel so betrayed. ANd he acts so nonchalant about it all, that "we've been over for a long time" "not compatible" "needs space", that I "dictate how he lives his life" that I'm "manipulative and he knows how I operate" that my tears are "crocodile tears" or "cut the drama" etc. He has twisted our history together into something ugly & distorted & will blame me for anything & everything that lead to this moment, given the chance.<p>And STILL, I have a hard time separating myself from the marriage. I stopped wesaring my rings after the anniversary (10th) came & went. I had had such hopes & dreams for that day & now look where I find myself!! My user name was "cantletgo" until a few weeks ago, when I realized I must force myself to try & move on some, emotionally and find out who I am again. I miss the old him desperately. I guess I have been sleeping alone for almost a year now, except for 3-4 "visits" when he was feeling guilty & I though I didn't want to drive him towards OW. <p>Well, she filed in the midst of all this & has joint custody of her kid. And like yours, his pattern was to go missing on the nights she did not have the kid. But I think that schedule changed & now I cannot tell as much. I thought it was over & did not ask questions hardly at all about her for 4 months. Had notasked where he was going or had been. But STILL, I did not see any attepmts from him to show me he wanted our marriage at all.<p>So I guess, what is it you really want? If you thought you might get back together, would he go to counseling? Would he be willing to show you by any means MORE than necessary that he is NOT in contact with OW by any means. Would he go out of his way to show you that you can trust him again and that he really wants you and the marriage & is not playing games? This is what I want, but am not holding my breath at all. It would be a long way off and I have already waited 1 yr. Have you told him the no contact is because you clearly cannot trust him and need to protect yourself agasinst being emotionally devastated again? I guess it would sort of be a Plan B letter - "I love you, BUT" except you are not expecting him to come back. Gosh, I myself was doing well last December/January without him. Many people I knew commented I looked alot better & happier and not all of them had a clue of the marital situation at all!! I was being on my own & liking the freedom from him nagging & expecting me to do things only a mother would do for their child! Without much emotional return from him. Gosh, some of these men only recognize sex and nothing else - none of all the other things we do - as caring. GRR.<p>So here I am, almost back at square one! Go look at 2 books "Too Good To Leave, Too Bad to Stay" and even better is "Rebuilding after your relationship ends". The second book is very comforting in the emotional stages we go through & discoveries we must make.<p>No one will think bad of you if you decide to stay divorced and take care of yourself & kids best interests!! Take care.

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Hello Everyone: I am so excited that I got some responses. Of course, not happy that we're all experiencing the same mixed emotions. But just to know we have the support from one another is great. I'm sorry I hadn't responded because I had to go out of town for a couple days for work and I'm just getting back and eager to see what everyone has to say. Just got my kids to bed and am on my computer ready to respond.<p>Maw64: Your divorce is not final and I know how you are feeling right about now. You feel like the end of the world is about to come. I felt the same way but you know I had already been separated for a year and I guess when the divorce became final, as well as feeling sad I also felt closure. And as each day went by I felt myself getting a little stronger & stronger. I guess the way I got thru it all especially at the beginning was because of my children. I wanted to prove to them that their mother had self respect, class and morals. I was going to make their lives happy no matter what. My gosh, it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But I think I'm doing pretty good with them. I also have both of them in counseling. <p>I have always been an independent person but never thought I was very strong. All my friends and co-workers tell me that I'm a hell of a lot stronger than they could ever think of being. Which makes me feel good. I think having faith in God has also helped me along the way. I'm not saying I haven't had my bouts w/ him but I just know there's a reason for all of this to have happened. <p>I guess my advice to you is to continue w/ MB for our support and also turn to your family & friends. Be #1 in your life and take care of yourself because nobody else is going to do it. The other thing I've decided is that I am the only one that can make my life what it is, either sad by wallowing in my self pity or make it happy and spread smiles around so that I feel I am worth something to somebody. I guess I've gotten kind of selfish thru all of this and treat myself every once in a while. Take care & thank you so much for your response.<p>Numbheart: Thanks so much for your words of wisdom. That's exactly what I'm afraid of, is that he just wants to be friends and carry on w/ the OW while he's still playing around w/ me. I've decided that's no longer going to happen.We only live once and I am going to make our lives as happy for my daughters as I possibly can. Take care.<p>Wiffle: What a reply! Yes, I did read it all. It was like reading a mystery book. I couldn't stop reading and couldn't wait to get to the end to find out what the outcome was. You and I have a lot of similarities in that we both just asked to be hurt. At the beginning of our separation I let him come over and we'd have sex but then it always made me feel cheap and worse about myself. I kept asking myself why do I do that to myself? I'm so glad yours turns out well in the end but I kind of feel like you do now. Do I really still love and want my XH back? Or is the challenge of taking him away from the OW just an adrenalin rush for me and I'm confusing it with love??? I admit I was pretty snoopy at first and I knew I should never ask him questions because his answers were just bound to hurt me but I did anyway. Another thing I had done was tell him to always tell me the truth about everything from here on out because I was sick & tired of all his lies and it just belittled me even more when he would try to lie to me. But now when he does say something and tells me the truth about what they are going to do & so forth it just makes me cringe. But I asked for it. So I better grin & bare it.<p>My XH told me the other night that he wanted me to start dating so I would know how he felt. (i have no idea what that was supposed to mean). I am not even looking to start dating or seeing anyone because it's too soon after the divorce. I want time for myself. Anyway, it really hurt my feelings when he told me that. After I got to thinking about it I thought to myself okay, *******, I will start dating just to see how you like it. I wonder if it would be okay with him or if he's just saying that for some odd reason? Your XH certainly didn't like the idea of you seeing someone else. Did he???<p>Wiffle, how long have you 2 been back together? Is it what you expected? I hope things are going much better for you and you get your feelings straightened out. I know once we spend time alone we kind of grow accustomed to it. Are we ever really happy? (JOKE) Take care and good luck with everything.<p>Againstthewind: I feel your pain. When my XH first told me about the affair he told me 3 different times that he was going to go and break things off w/ her. Would come home and tell me he did it. All 3 times he lied. They'd be back together within a week of everytime he supposedly told her to get lost. I actually didn't kick him out of the house until the OW contacted me by phone. I did exactly what she had set out to do when she called me. I kicked him out and right into her hands. I knew exactly what she had planned but I was so angry I couldn't do anything but pack his clothes and lock him out of our home. <p>There comes a time in our lives when we have to say "enough is enough" damn it. We're humans also that have hearts. We need to feel good about ourselves and if the only way we can do that is not to have those cheating spouses in our lives then so be it. <p>I also had wanted my husband to return to me and show me different ways in which I could trust him and trust the fact that he also wanted us to work things out. But to me I just didn't think he showed enough remorse let alone try to show me that he could be trusted again. <p>I am definitely go check the library out for those 2 books. Hopefully, they will do me some good. I know everyone's responses make me feel stronger and make me hope I'm on the right track back to sanity. Good luck and I'll be praying for you. Thank you.<p>Now I just wanted to give you all a little interesting scenario that happened tonight when I went to pick up my daughters from XH's home which is still with his brother for now. As I got there after driving 3 hours to get home my youngest daughter came out running to me to tell me that they had been at the park playing and some man came up and hit their dad in the chest. So therefore, my XH took me to the backyard to tell me what had happened to him tonight. <p>He starts out with, the OW called him to tell him she was at the park w/ her daughters and for him to take our girls and meet them over there. Then after awhile the OW left the park w/ her girls. Well, about 10 minutes later as he was talking to a couple guys he knew there some man approached my XH, called his name and introduced himself and then immediately pushed my XH in the chest. (I kind of wish he had punched him in the nose). Anyway, this man is evidently the OW's XH who was pushing my XH around. As my XH began to tell me what the man was saying to him was that if my XH ever touched her like that again he was going to kill my XH. My XH asked him what he was talking about and then the OW's XH started swearing at him and keep in mind my daughers along w/ everyone else at the park are watching all this take place. He started swinging at my XH and my XH grabbed a hold of him and pushed him back toward his car and told him that this was not the place or time for it. So as my husband is going on about the hitting all I could think of "who did you touch". I thought please God don't tell me she's accusing my XH of touching one of her 5 daughters. But then my XH explained to me that Sunday night she called him late around 11:30pm to tell him that her XH had just left the house. I'm sure she was just wanting to make my XH jealous and of course that's exactly what happened. My XH took off to her house, went in and grabbed her by the arm and asked her if she had gone to bed w/ her XH. She replied "NO". But then suddenly, my sweet old XH thought about what he's like when he comes over to my house and let her go and left her house. <p>I asked my XH "why the hell are you telling me this?" He said because our daughters witnessed this fight at the park but they had no idea who he is. And I just wanted you to know the truth. I just thought to myself (yah, it makes me feel great that your were in such a jealous rage over her maybe screwing her XH but telling me to go and date someone). I just took my daughters by their hands and said to him "congratulations, this is the kind of life you want, good luck." Then he's telling I'm going to go in & call her and find out what the hell is going on. <p>What do my MB friends think of that??? Before I drove off in the car he came to kiss the girls goonight and I couldn't help myself. I said to XH, Gee, I wonder how XH knows you laid a hand on her, how he knew where you were at and to find the exact location of the park, let alone who you are, because supposedly they had never met before. And why the OW had just happened to leave 10 minutes prior to when her XH got there? But he was still going in to call her and find out what was going on. I sarcastically then kind of smirked at him and said "this is just the beginning of many good things to come." What comes around goes around. <p>I want to thank everyone for all their support and can't wait to see responses. If anyone would like to e-mail me, I would love to continue conversing thru e-mail. It helps so much talking w/ people going thru the same thing cause I know other friends & family get tired of hearing about it. And this is something nobody can understand unless you go thru it and experience it firsthand. My e-mail address is rubegg@mchsi.com. I hope to hear from someone either thru MB or e-mail. May the force be with all of us and help us to continue growing and making us stronger people. Goodnight [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img]


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