Hi gang - old and new,<p>Just want to give an update - I still lurk sometimes and think often about how much I needed the support and kindness of all of you during my dark times. I actually decided to post an update after reading something from misery in missouri about anger.<p>My divorce was final in November, after having been separated from exH for just over two years - and I am really healing well. But even after all this time, I am still sometimes amazed at how angry I can get at exH and OW. I wonder if any of you veteran long term plan Aers have experienced this. For me, I know I did not fully express my anger while in plan A, nor even really in plan B. I was so focused on saving the marriage I set aside my rage. Even during the divorce process (which we started as a legal separation) we were both focused on cooperating and doing what was best for the kids (a good thing), and were both very careful to be fair and as generous as possible.<p>It's almost like I needed the finality of the divorce (and the end of the divorce "honeymoon") to give myself permission to get really P.O'd. So now I occasionally find myself, 4 years after the affair started, six months after the divorce, just enraged. Angry at exH for not trying, angry at OW for being a homewrecker, angry at myself for not taking better care of the marriage - and at the same time for not standing up for my feelings. It's not constant, and it has let up over the last few weeks - but sometimes is sneaks up on me and is still so strong.<p>I thought I had reached a point of forgiveness - and in many ways I have, the feelings do not consume me. But in other ways I am still processing some major anger. I am surprised at how long it takes to get through all the myriad emotions. It has helped to finally set some clear boundaries with exH. I resent that he wants to be "friends" and have made it clear that my only desire is to raise our kids in a cooperative way. This has helped, and has eliminated the chatty e-mails he would send me re: his activities w/kids and OW. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I am getting there. I have always maintained a calm and civil demeanor with exH/OW in relation to the kids, and this has not changed. What is different is I now have the confidence and the courage to focus on me - and sometimes this means giving myself permission to be angry and stand up for myself.<p>It has also helped that I now have a wonderful man in my life. Someone mature and loving , calm and considerate and affectionate, who really tries to understand me and accept me. We communicate about everything and talk easily about our needs. But are also able to progress at a moderate pace - both of us being divorced with children, and neither feeling compelled to push quickly for more time or intensity in the relationship. And when we do have conflicts, we actually negotiate quite readily and easily (and it's not like my old style of negotiation - where I would just give in, thinking that would "keep the peace" - I have learned [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ). I am happier than I have been in a very long time.<p>Other updates: the kids are doing great and will be spending extended time with their Dad this summer. In his favor exH has and continues to be an involved and concerned father - as much as possible over distance and limited time. But both kids still have a strong and positive connection with him. And neither has suffered academic or social upheaval, we have been blessed to have been able to stay in our home, with the same wonderful friends and neighbors surrounding us. <p>Anyway, just a few thoughts on the continuing journey. God bless all of you and the gift of support you give each other.<p>Starpony

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

It gives me a little bit of insight as to what is in store for me in the not to distant future.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Starpony,<p>Thanks for posting the update! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I still find myself somewhat disgusted when I see my ex and his OW. I think most of that though is because he refuses to be a decent father to his children because he's too caught up in babysitting her.<p>Most of the times I see them, I just laugh inside, knowing that she's finally finding out what she really won...a man who isn't gonna treat her any better than he did me. (She's the latest victim of his physical abuse) Do I feel sorry for her? NOPE, not one bit. She knew what she was getting into.<p>Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Starpony,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>But even after all this time, I am still sometimes amazed at how angry I can get at exH and OW. I wonder if any of you veteran long term plan Aers have experienced this. For me, I know I did not fully express my anger while in plan A, nor even really in plan B. I was so focused on saving the marriage I set aside my rage. <hr></blockquote><p>I'm dealing with this as well. I don't know that I consciously suppressed my anger, but it works out to the same thing. After several months of divorce, I think back over our marriage and I can't believe the way I let things develope. I was always the one to give in on things and eventually she took advantage of that. I am alternately angry with her for doing it, and angry with myself for allowing it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> And when we do have conflicts, we actually negotiate quite readily and easily (and it's not like my old style of negotiation - where I would just give in, thinking that would "keep the peace" - I have learned ). <hr></blockquote><p>I know exactly how this goes. I can't wait to meet someone who's willing to meet me halfway.<p>I'm not anywhere near ready for a relationship with another woman and part of the reason is because there is a certain amount of bitterness that I'm carrying from my marriage. I don't quite know how to get over this part of it. I think it's a case of it being over and I just need to not dwell on it anymore. Sometimes though I can't help it.<p>Congratulations on your new happy relationship and good luck.

Hi Starpony!!!<p>Just wanted to say HI!!! and that yes your feelings are completely normal. I have wanted to kill Val many times lately, bring her back [because I can, MEDIC, get it?], and kill her again.<p>I saw your name and **had** to respond. I am ready to fall over right now, [16 hour shift in the am] we have been getting killed with runs this week. I'm not getting any younger or prettier.<p>I'll give you a better reponse when I an fully functional.

Starpony,<p>Hey, friend!!! Listen, you are just reacting very, very normal, in my opinion. The greieving process includes the anger cycle - it allows you to express your anger for being treated in such a hurtful way. You did such a good Plan A and B, you are just now able to allow yourself to "feel" all that you have to feel in order to process and release these feelings.<p>I didn't do as good a Plan A. I thought I was doing a good one, but when I counselled with Steve, I found out I was doing a terrible job. I vented my feelings to my ex all along. I really had a tough time containing myself. The only good is that it allowed me to process and eal with alot of my negative emotions sooner.<p>You are just feeling something that needs to be felt now. You have grown so much. Deal with it, feel, and then release as much as you can from your life. <p>You are a super, super person and I am wishing much, much happiness in your life today and in the future!!!!<p>RMA

Starpony,<p>I too am just a lurker every once in awhile. Never post becuase I really don't know how to respond to anyone yet.<p>I totally understand about anger. I am not a hateful person but I truly hate the ow for wrecking my family and ultimately devastating my children. I also get angry at h for not trying and just giving up because his feelings were so strong for ow. I get angry because those feelings were more important than the pain he was causing our children.I get angry because of all the lies pre and post discovery.

H and I are not divorced yet. I had papers drawn up last year but have not filed them. I know deep in my heart that our marriage will never make it as I have almost zero respect for h now and do not believe a word that comes out of his mouth. I think I'm more afraid of his reaction as whenever I make a major decision he explodes and accuses me of being controlling. I have asked him many times if he wants a divorce and can not get a straight answer. I've even asked him if he plans to spend the rest of his life with ow and he replies "I don't know". I think I also havent filed because of what my childrens reaction will be even though we have been separated almost three years.<p>Alot has happened as this has evolved but that's a whole other soap opera. The short version is this; I backed off over a year ago and went on with my own life which is really based around my children right now. H and ow did whatever they wanted so I thought. He would bring her to the boys sporting events and that would just enrage me. Why should I have to watch the two of them. In my opinion it was totally inappropriate for her to be around them at all before divorcing. She felt that there was nothing morally wrong with it and pushed to become a part of their lives. My children have spent time at her house and she just kept pushing as if they were married. The boys missed spending time alone with their father the little bit of time they got with him and began to resent her but would not speak up as when they did he ignored what they said anyways.<p>From what I understand per ow, their relationship is very rocky all the time. They are constantly arguing and breaking up. I think it's true that when exposed to the light of day it starts to fall apart. My h won't agree with that. He blames me for many problems in their relationship. Too bad. My h has continued to lie to both of us. It turns out that most of the time he treats her just as badly as he treats me but she always takes him back when begs.<p>I too have tried to maintain a civil relationship with h for the sake of our children. We see each other almost every day at one event or another but he makes civility impossible when he brings her along. When she is not around we can laugh and be good parents together.<p>Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I know how you feel. I haven't posted in years but was compelled to respond as I remember our situations were so similar. <p>Take care<p>Hoping

Oh, it's the girl with the prettiest name on the forum!! <p>Hi Starpony!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Wanna hear something REALLY crazy? I **still** get ticked at David, and I'm married to someone else! How's that for making you feel normal? <p>My H is the sweetest, most loving man, and I know how blessed I am to have him in my life. Obviously, at this point, I wouldn't trade him for the world. But my life is far from easy. In fact, most of it is downright horrible.<p>And sometimes I ask myself how I got here, and it comes back to David... because dammit... he gave it all up for a chick he doesn't even have anymore (lasted two years - longest one of the five affairs he had over the marriage!). Yeah, I could have waited for the natural conclusion, but WHY - number FIVE, ya know? I decided not to wait to meet numbers 6,7 and 8! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Lots of old friends on this thread. It's good to read these updates.<p>I understand these feelings quite well. I think it's perfectly normal to feel anger, especially since it was suppressed so long during the lengthy Plan A time period. I also think there's a distinction between being angry about the marriage ending vs. being angry about the way we were treated. I can't speak for you, but I believe with all my being that my ex-husband lacks character, strength and decency. I do not at all regret that the marriage is over - most days I celebrate it. Still though, I feel periodic anger about the fact that he never showed remorse or took any action to acknowledge his wrongs or atone for them. That anger will not go away, nor will there ever be true "forgiveness", until and unless he does those things. I'm not sitting around waiting for him to do so.<p>I also have a relationship going. I don't think it will be long term, but it's good for me right now. The kids have adjusted and are doing well, work is going well, and my self-esteem has recovered from the trauma. I sometimes visit the forum but almost never post. With so many friends on this thread, I couldn't resist.<p>I wish all of you the very best. Life can and will be good.

Starpony, Reading your post sounds like I'm reading my future.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>For me, I know I did not fully express my anger while in plan A, nor even really in plan B. I was so focused on saving the marriage I set aside my rage. Even during the divorce process (which we started as a legal separation) we were both focused on cooperating.<hr></blockquote><p>I definitely relate to this. I tried for the past 1.5 years to save my marriage and finally reached my breaking point.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I thought I had reached a point of forgiveness - and in many ways I have, the feelings do not consume me. But in other ways I am still processing some major anger. I am surprised at how long it takes to get through all the myriad emotions. It has helped to finally set some clear boundaries with exH. I resent that he wants to be "friends."<hr></blockquote><p>I know I've also suppressed my anger and am sorry to hear that the process continues for so long. My H too seems to think we should get along, but I have no interest in being friends and would just as soon never see him or OW again, though I have always been civil when I'm with him/them.<p>Glad to hear you're in a great relationship and your kids are doing well. It's also good that,despite everything, your H is being a good dad.

Just wanted to say "HI!!!!!!!" to Distressed!!!!<p>Girl, you sound sooooooo goooooodddddd!!!!!!<p>RMA

How wonderful to see so many old friends here.

More news just in - exH told me this weekend that he and OW are getting married. Count this as one of the affairs that didn't end I guess...it's already been 4 years...<p>Anyway, my emotions took a bit of a hit at the news, but I'm focusing instead on how far I have come. Unlike Distressed (hey girl - good to hear from you!) I'm not sure my self esteem has fully recovered yet from the trauma. Sometimes I still ask -"What was wrong with me?", silly as that sounds...<p>Wallace - thanks for the wishes.<p>Mitz - Greetings! I'm sorry about your ex's lack of parenting. You sound great though.<p>IG - Learning that negotiation is the true spirit of partnership is my most valuable lesson from all of this. You are worth it.<p>Medic - you can always make me laugh. Hope things continue to go well for you and Gina.<p>RMA - Always great to hear from you. Thanks for your kind words.<p>Hoping - It's been such a long, long haul for you. I'm sorry your H has disappointed you so thoroughly. This is hard Hoping - but I do believe that once you have lost all respect it is time to move on. Your H blames YOU for the problems w/OW?!! Unbelievable. You will act when the time is right for you. You are a caring mother and strong woman and you and your kids will be fine.<p>NB - I appreciate all your insights Sheryl. Sometimes I think of you and wonder if I am getting into a new relationship too quickly. My emotional baggage is still sitting in the entryway if you know what I mean. But the man I have met seems wonderful, and willing to let me heal at my own pace, so...we'll see.<p>Distressed - You know, sometimes I wish I had your sense of certainty. I'm getting there. Glad to hear you and the kids are doing well.<p>letstry - Best of luck to you. Remember, you don't have to be friends. My kids have adjusted extremely well and ex and I are far from friends. Just don't drag them into the conflict...<p>Take care all.<p>Back to lurkdom...<p>Starpony

Starpony,<p>Well, I can empathize about how you feel with your exH getting married so soon after the divorce. Mine got married 2 mos later.<p>There is NOTHING wrong with you!!! REPEAT: There is NOTHING wrong with you!!<p>You were married to a guy who couldn't quite figure out how to be happy in the relationship he was in and with the W he had. Rest assured, this man has learned no lessons. He may truly be happy right now, Starpony, but life will eventually intrude on his relationship with her. And, when it does, he won't be able to figure out how to be happy in the relationship he has and with the W#2 that he has. And, I suspect, history will eventually repeat itself, again.<p>Yes, your self-esteem has taken a huge beating. I think that is true for every BS. But, in reality, you are the stronger and more confident of the two. You have survived a horrendous ordeal and proved yourself determined and spirited enough to refuse to let this beat you down and make you roll over and play dead. You are moving forward and trust me, when all the dust has settled, you will always be able to look in the mirror and feel good about your efforts (remember you can't control the outcome - only your own efforts!) and you will feel the confidence that comes from picking yourself up, dusting yourself off and plodding ahead.<p>You are doing great, considering, Starpony! Feel the hurt - it is natural for you to feel this way. But then, plod forward and enjoy the man who is treating you as nicely as you deserve to be treated!<p>Luv ya, RMA

What always amazes me when I read these posts is that so few of you take responsibility for the normal problems in your own relationships. It is not HIS or HER fault or OTHER PERSONS. It is natural for growing and maturing people to find out that your needs do not match. So many of you could of used so much of that ANGER focusing on being better people yourselves. Funny how hard one will fight for something you can't have or dream is ideal when your career or relations with your children is so unfocused. JUST a curious observation, feel free to blast me. And I have been betrayed, dumped, married, divorced etc.

Hi 2nd!!!<p>I'm from Earth. What planet are you from? <p>I know from my experiences [41 years so far] that life, let alone M is not perfect and hey, the dog still pees in the house every once in a while. I don't know her [the dogs] needs either. I guess it also would have helped if my now XW would have mentioned something to me that she was dating someone else while we were still M and that I was not meeting her needs seeing as thou as you say "It is natural for growing and maturing people to find out that your needs do not match." Damn, where were you three years ago when this sh*t started for me? You could have saved me so much pain, suffering and time.<p>I would have been more than happy to acknowledge my part and to "take responsibility for the normal problems in your own relationships" [you again] if she [my XW] would have only told me. Gee, screwing someone behind my back and me knowing you would think I would have done something. Yep, you are right. I should have known. I accidentally forgot that I can read minds. Dopey me!!! Not like it was a kick in the Jimmy for me or anyone else here. We knew our S's were unhappy and we just didn't care. I never loved my X anyway, did anyone else here give a rat's [censored]? You are very inciteful.<p>Once again you are correct "It is not HIS or HER fault or OTHER PERSONS. It is natural for growing and maturing people to find out that your needs do not match. So many of you could of used so much of that ANGER focusing on being better people yourselves. Funny how hard one will fight for something you can't have or dream is ideal when your career or relations with your children is so unfocused. JUST a curious observation, feel free to blast me. And I have been betrayed, dumped, married, divorced etc."<p>No Blasts here. I think you have figured this thing out. Way to go!!! It's time for you to write that book.<p>Catch ya in the funny papers. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]