HELP!!!! All progress in co-parenting with the a-hole exWS is gone. He can't stand to be confronted about anything and he's says I'm just angry and need to "get over it(the very messy divorce, repeated reconcilliations, the trashy OW inserting herself into my life...)." <p>Both are true. I AM ANGRY! I will not accept his trashy OW and will not make my children accept her either. I only tell them that they must mind their dad when they are with him. Apparently, ex has told them that he will wear them out (aka spanking) if they don't show respect for the OW.<p>Here's the problem - he thinks I'm "putting negative ideas" into the children's heads. This is not true, but when they ask me something I tell them the truth - something their father STILL is not doing, though he does protest that fact.<p>For instance, she cheated on her husband, but my ex said that's just a "technicality" since they were separated... Another is that my children want to spend time with their dad alone, minus OW. He says I can't stand that they actually like the OW. True, but I realize that their dad forces them to be around her and she's good at "playing the game." Basically, everything thing my kids complain about comes from my mouth, according to ex.<p>While I do need to deal with my anger, I will never accept and allow the OW to be one big, happy family with me or my children. How do you other BS's deal with ex's who continually blame you when their "new life" isn't perfect????? I would give nothing in the world for my children, in fact, they are my world, but I envy those who divorce without children. What I wouldn't give to have the ex and his trashy OW out of my life completely and forever....

Untrapped mom,<p>I know you are mad, angry and bitter over all this, and I understand, but unfortunately I agree that *YOU* are hurting your children. You are trying to reflect your anger on them, keeping their anger going against all this is hurting your children and some day when they get older their anger won't be at OW or at WS it is all going to be pointed towards "you" and "you" alone. They do not need all this finger pointing and hatred in their life.<p>I hope you change your position on this.<p>ANNA

I think you misinterpreted me. I don't sit around with my kids dreaming ways or things to say to hurt WS or OW. Yes, I am angry, but I do not share the things I share here with my children. When they ask me a question about something WS or OW has said to them, I respond honestly. If nothing else, I will be honest with my children. Do I bash their dad or the OW to them, NO!

The advice that I was given to questions the kids ask about what is going on is to tell them to ask their father.<p>Then if he lies the kids will eventually figure it out and know that he is lying - and the kids will figure it out. <p>It's a hard road to walk. <p>There was a post a while back about parental alienation - maybe it was on the GQII board if not this one. I'd do a search and find it. It will tell you if you are doing anything to alienate your kids.<p>Telling the truth - as long as it's age appropriate has also been suggested to me. And if you don't know, just say I don't know.<p>But always make sure that the kids know that both parents love them very much and that they really don't need to worry about the other adult stuff.<p>A good child counselor may have some more technically correct answers too.<p>K

Well, quite honestly you really are hurting your kids. <p>You can see my links in my signature & here to find out what happens to a family when the other parent trashes with verbal and non verbal messages towards the other parent & their new partner!<p>Even if you aren't saying anything directly to the kids, be vigilent of speaking anything regarding the situation when kids can hear. Non verbal clues are easily seen by the kids, so be aware of it, the kids will follow your lead.<p>There is some info on the below threads about the parent alienation syndrome.<p>Basically, whether or not you like this OW or your XH choices; it is in the best interest of the children to encourage respect for her and their relationship...period... it would be best to encourage a friendship bond between them. <p>Anyway, I hope you can find some info to help you understand the other side!<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: milli ]<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: milli ]</p>

One more thing!<p>You don't have to compete with OW regarding your kids. You are always their mother! Let her be their friend. 2 very different and important roles.<p>She isn't going to take them from you and have a happier family.

Why would she encourage a relationship between OW and her kids? Chanes are OW won't be around much longer, relationships built on affairs don't have a very high survival rate. Chances are very high that she will soon be cheating on the exH.<p>I would continue to be honest with your kids. They will appreciate your honesty as they get older. I would avoid any discussions with your ex about the OW he will just defend her and besides neither of them are worth your time and energy. Just ignore your ex when he starts with the blame game; don't let him push your buttons. I would simply tell him that since he cannot be honest with the kids that you will be and end the conversation.<p>Is he serious about the spanking thing? It's really sad he puts the OW's feelings before those of this kids.<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: KalGrl ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why would she encourage a relationship between OW and her kids? <hr></blockquote><p>Obiously this woman is in her kids life. Isn't it better they have a respectful friendship? Now that could be as casual acquaintances or a close friendship bond, whatever is comfy for kids. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Chanes are OW won't be around much longer, relationships built on affairs don't have a very high survival rate. Chances are very high that she will soon be cheating on the exH. <hr></blockquote><p>That's a generalization. There is also the chance that this woman could become their step-mother. I would want to know my kids are being treated well by the other woman, and if it starts in animosity, there may be a lot of angry bitter relationships. I would rather have her as an advocate for my kids!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I would continue to be honest with your kids. They will appreciate your honesty as they get older. <hr></blockquote><p>There is an age appropriate honesty. Basically, the kids don't have to know the "adult" stuff or feel like they have to choose sides about who was right and who was wrong. They should have the freedom to love both their parents, and in fairness to the kids and the other parent...they only need to know they are loved and it wasn't their fault. This other thinking only leads to the kids sympathy of the wronged parent, and can lead into the Parental Alienation Syndrome. (loved parent--hated parent) Who loses? The kids!

Hi Untrapped Mom,<p>Man, oh man, if I could just go back and do it differently. <p>I, like you, decided to tell my kids (3 teens) the truth. I knew how horrible it felt to be lied to, and didn't want to put them through having to dig and dig for the truth like I did. OW was also a woman that my kids had known all of their lives...so when dad decided he'd been out of the house long enough he was going to slowly begin bringing OW around. One big happy family. I squelched that plan real quick and told the kids he had been dating her long before he left home...and I told them about the two year affair he had before this one. <p>I don't know if I did the right thing or not. I hate hate hate being lied to...I was not going to give my (now ex)H the opportunity to lie to them too.<p>I trashed OW...granted she pulled a few stunts that were classless and hurtful to my children, but I told my kids things about her past (she had cheated on her husbands and her live ins)that I should not have. <p>My kids are now in therapy with a wonderful Christian counselor. Wanna hear a shocker...they talk just as much about me as they do about their dad...YIKES! I played perfect, hurt, martyred mother for so long that I could not, would not see what I was doing to them.<p>Last weekend I asked my daughter (16) if she could name one thing I should have done differently what would it be. She said she just wished I wouldn't have said bad things about her dad. I told her I was so sorry, and she replied "mom, this is hard enough to deal with, without having my dad, who I love, trashed too."<p>Sometimes it's really hard to look at the mistakes we make. <p>It's so hard to "share" my kids. Now when they go to their dads I've heard them say a few times things like..."well, we went to the movies then we ate dinner at home" when I ask them how their weekend at dads was. ACK! They called that place home!!! That was really hard, but it's my problem, not theirs. A professional would say it's a really good sign that they're starting to acclimate to the situation. The thing is, they started to acclimate a whole lot sooner than I did, and really, I have to be quiet and let them learn how to live with this...not keep opening my mouth with my feelings for heavens sake.<p>Well, I probably said to much...as usual. It just makes it so much harder for the kids because they feel guilty if they go off with dad (and OW) and mom is miserable about it. They want to please us as parents and talk about a lose-lose situation for them. <p>I hope this helps. I hope you are a quicker study that I was, because I really think I've done some harm to my kids by being this way. I would not be surprised if they resent me for a good part of this when they get older.<p>Patience....<p>allison

allison,<p>I think it is likely that your teenagers will evenually appreciate the fact that you were honest. Nothing is more important to maintaining a close relationship than honesty and openness. My teenagers have told me that they hate being lied to, that they hate having information withheld from them. They figured out that he had been having an affair as soon as he left. They have criticized me for being a doormat and letting their father walk all over me since he left, and for not telling them about their father's affair earlier, before I even knew about it myself. Apparently I "should" have been suspicious, and apparently I should have immediately told them of my suspicions. <p>No matter how you handle something, teenagers are likely to be critical of it. <p>Milli,<p>Marrying the OP is no guarantee that the relationship will last - just read the posts here over the last couple of months.

KalGrl,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why would she encourage a relationship between OW and her kids? Chanes are OW won't be around much longer, relationships built on affairs don't have a very high survival rate. Chances are very high that she will soon be cheating on the exH. <hr></blockquote><p>I agree with milli--as you are a good mother, I'm sure you have taught your children to be kind and respectful to other adults. Now, you have to set the example. I, too, disagree with giving them 'all the gory details' in the name of honesty...sometimes that's an excuse to let all our pain out--but to the inappropriate parties. Read allison's post again. My kids have said the same to me---"mom, he's still my dad, please don't say anything bad about him". I think our pain and anger makes us forget the Golden Rule.
And our kids go thru enough hurt during a divorce without us piling more on them.<p>I also agree that your comments about relationships is a little off the mark and over the line. NO relationship has a very high chance of survival---all relationships are difficult to maintain and nurture and we all make mistakes, whether they were started as an affair or not. They all take hard work and dedication. And while it may very well be true that she WILL cheat on Mom's xh, your generalization is very jaded.

Mom,<p>Anytime my d gets into trouble, it is my fault. Her father is convinced that all the evil in the world is my doing. <p>She's disobedient because I am strict on her. I ground her and I spank her if necessary and I take away her privileges. Of course, he doesn't have to live with her snotty "I'm 13 going on 30" attitude. He doesn't have to tell her that he doesn't want her hanging around with the 'vampires' (gothic monsters) next door. He doesn't know that the 'slumber party' last week was a lie just to get to spend the night with the friend of hers whose mother is a neglectful alcoholic who shacks up with a guy who has 2 teen age sons (or some body--not sure whose kids they are) living there. He doesn't answer the phone 10 times a day and each time is a different boy. He didn't get up and find her missing because she sneaked out of the window. He didn't even come to look for her the other day when she disappeared for 6 hours and I was stuck at work. <p>It's so easy to pass judgment when you don't have to do anything.

This subject is so difficult. There is so much hurt and pain on all sides. Although the hurt that I know that my H feels when he senses some rejection from the boys....well, that was brought on himself.<p>Being the BS....being the parent of 2 teenage boys (18 & 14).....my STBX living with the OW for more than 6 months now....how do I handle these things???? I try to take one step at a time....I know that I don't always say the right thing. I do mess up occasionally. I am not perfect. My kids know that he is with OW....and that this was an A. They know that he lives in a "wow" house with her. They do not want to go there and they do not want to meet her. They do want to spend time with Dad. My 18 yr old says he does not want to be a part of Dad's new family. My youngest then agrees with him. My H has been gone for 10 months. I have tried so many times to talk to them about meeting the OW. I have told them that I will be ok. I have explained to them that the divorce is coming soon and the time is coming where you will be going to Dad's new house. I know they are being loyal to me. I understand and love them for it. I also think that they are old enough to realize that what has happened sux.....and maybe they don't want to meet the person that helped ruin the family. The boys were not first in his life. That's a shame. The OW came first....it is so disappointing. Their father is not the same man he was before he left. He does not see or call them the way that he should. It has gotten better...but in the beginning when they needed him most.....HE BLEW IT! I think that is what they remember. They are smart and they do love their Dad. But they also know the hurt that he has caused and they know that the OW is a part of all of this. I will not push them into this. They get mad at me! Their Dad never discusses this with them at all. Any info he gets....he gets from me and I refuse to tell him what they are thinking anymore. He is afraid to talk to them and they don't want to talk to him about it either! In the beginning...he lied to my oldest....not wise on his part.<p>I do agree....we can't bad mouth our spouses in front of the kids. I do have to be better about that too. I do the best I can. If they ask me something....I tell them the truth. There have been too many lies. He didn't even tell them where he went last weekend. What was up with that??? Did he think it might bother them a little????<p>Hang in there.....try to be a positive role model for your kids! They will love you for it!<p>MAX<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Feeling So Alone ]</p>

FSA:<p>Part of being a positive role model--(ouch this one's gonna hurt) -- is showing & teaching forgiveness to your children. It is truly a gift to yourself and your children. <p>It is really to sad to see your kids & H relationship come to this! I hope my situation doesn't get so bad. My prayeris that your kids become reconcilled with their father!<p>Maybe you can encourage some family counseling?<p>Peace!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm sure you have taught your children to
be kind and respectful to other adults.<hr></blockquote><p>No one deserves respect merely because he or she is an adult - would it follow that a child is less "deserving" of respect because of he or she is a child? Respect is something that has to be earned. It is not something that can or should be "taught." I would NEVER tell my children that they were required to respect any individual.

Nellie, I gotta say, I just think you're the greatest. You know that saying...something like "Stand up for something even if you're standing alone"? That is you. God, it's refreshing to see someone one that is black and white in this grey world of ours!<p>Sounds like your kids are a lot like you and you know what...they'll never be pushed around will they? You keep plugging along Nellie, you have been one of the women on these boards I have looked up to for a few years now, and I've seen the amount of crap you've been given at times for your opinions...but, I'm glad you're here, I'm glad there are still people that tell it like it is and know that truth is just so hard to find and so valuable when we do.<p>I think we're all trying to do something in this thread that is so important. We have all admitted to being less than perfect! It means we are trying. Most of us here have been given a very tough set of circumstances. A lot of us are raising our kids virtually alone. I just don't see much bitterness here...we are asking (each other) the hard questions and we are trying hard to find out the answers. We want to be better moms and dads...better people. There are just times that I am glad to be a part of this board because I really do see us helping each other.<p>Thanks everyone
~allison

Respect... The OW is certainly not deserving of respect. HOWEVER...<p>Respect defines the GIVER not the recipient. So teach your children to be respectful - they will NEVER regret being respectful toward their father or their mother or the OW. And they will be able to respect themselves as they grow up. <p>Trust is another matter. I can be respectful without trusting someone. But the minute I decide that someone who is untrustworthy is not worthy of my respect, I lose my self-respect. It's a paradox. But until you try it on you don't get to know how it works.

allison,<p>It is true that my kids have strong opinions, which they do not hesitate to share - one bonus of this is that, at least so far, succumbing to peer pressure has not been an issue. So many WS's seem to remake themselves into clones of the OP - at least I hopefully do not have to worry about anyone ever convincing my kids to give up their core beliefs.<p>I appreciate your support, including on the thread in the EN forum. <p>KaylaAndy,<p>Perhaps you are using a different definition of respect than I am. Not respecting someone does not mean hurling epithets at them. There are many people that most of us have no respect for - the Sept. 11 terrorists come to mind. There is no question in my mind that they are not worthy of our respect; if they were alive most Americans would treat them with disdain at best - but that does not mean that it would be right to lynch them.<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</p>

Obviously, this topic stirs up alot of controversy. I can see both sides and I realize that I have made many mistakes as a mother and even as a wife. I'm tyring as hard as I can to be a good mom - a "normal" mom like I was before the A and subsequent divorce. <p>There is nothing I want more than my children's happiness, but I guess in the past 2+years the pain and betrayal sometimes get in the way of that. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />