Read the post from Ragamuffin about REVENGE and it made me think more about getting input from the poepl here who could give me some added insight and perspective.<p>So, I'm sorry for this long post but I'd really like some input from all of you to help me understand the behavior of my ex-wife.<p>I?ve not been back a lot since the divorce was final what is now three years ago. I?ve not been a regular visitor but have been back a few times?I?ve lurked and checked up to see how some of the old timers are doing who were doing everything they could to weather the storm and try and find a way back to make their marriages work. I was always amazed at the majority of folks who really try and make it back and do all they can to make it work even after the earthquake that hits after DD.<p>When I do visit, I always quietly say a small prayer for everyone and wish those that are trying to find their way back to their marriages?more success, healing and growth than they can ever imagine?and also saddened to see all the new MB?s that always seem to join each and every day.<p>My situation, and as the WS and three years after the divorce, my ex-w continues to be very angry and vengeful even after being divorced and also just recently entering into a new marriage as well.<p>I can not understand her behavior after the divorce and even more so after she has re-married! I?m trying to move on and I?d thought it a normal expectation I would have of her as well. After the divorce she continues to engage in behavior that is hard for me to understand.<p>I need your valued input on why any of you can offer up insight as to why she continues to take this route. So?a short overview?God Bless and any input or thoughts from all of you would be very much appreciated.<p>1. I was the WS<p>2. Married 16 years ? No Children<p>3. Meeting emotional needs-We didn?t understand their scope/what they entailed!<p>4. SF ? Per the Harley Questionnaire?was one of my top 5<p>5. Wife refused to include SF as EN in our marriage = No Lovemaking last 8 yrs.<p>6. Last 5 yrs wife purposefully created mindset w/family/friends SF was great!<p>7. Would even ?Act? sexually aggressive manor when w/close couple friends?
By?talking of our ongoing SF activity as a part of our marriage and?
By at times ?Grabbing? my Sexual Parts in front of couple friends<p>8. We entered into couples counseling before the affair<p>9. Wife would not talk or discuss the SF issue / We stopped counseling<p>10. I made the mistake of thinking I could solve the problems of our marriage by going outside of the marriage to find a way to improve it or make it better.<p>11. I started the affair 1997 with co-worker<p>12. I entered individual counseling<p>13. I confessed the affair to wife 100% my responsibility<p>14. We began couples counseling<p>15. I stopped all contact with OW<p>16. Our couples counseling ?Focused? on me as a defective person* -- *Learned later that there is no Reliability/Quality Control process to help identify good counselors.<p>17. We continued couples counseling.<p>18. No OW contact was approaching 4 months?Lost my Father to cancer<p>19. OW sent me a very very surprising note telling me that she just wanted to move on and asking me to please stop calling her at home and work and hanging up and harassing her or she would ask the local authorities and our employer to get involved since she had confirmation from local phone company call records. She wanted to meet and discuss to make sure I knew she was serious and to get it stopped.<p>20. I was dumbfounded?concerned for my job?on OW claim and decided to meet with her at her residence.<p>21. Met with her for 20 minutes at her residence and could not believe the phone company data they had provided her?that showed calls coming from my home residence but also from my wife?s place of employment.<p>22. I asked for her help and told her I had not had not tried to contact her at all (even OW counselors outlined for her the No Contact Behavior Policy) and that the calls unfortunately appeared to by coming from my wife?s work and also from our residence. Told OW that I would work to get it stopped and was not my intent to harass and was unaware of what appeared to be originating from my wife?s employment and residence.<p>23. Thanked her for not going to the authorities right away and as I began to walk out to leave?my wife called on the OW?s phone?screaming and indicated that my visit was being watched by her and a PI and that I needed to come out of the OW house immediately. I felt like it was come out or we will shoot!<p>24. I did not leave immediately. Stayed for another 20 minutes while wife continued to call, scream and demand I come out then wife left.<p>25. I went home?all doors had been locked?garage doors locked and automatic openers turned off and much of my personal things (pictures of my Father, my clothes, books, etc) were thrown outside on the driveway and yard.<p>26. Wife would not answer the phone?that was the last night I stayed in our house?next morning I returned and she told me to get out of the house and never come back and she was changing the locks.<p>27. I got an apartment and wife no longer wanted to attend counseling.<p>28. 1 week later she file for divorce<p>29. Our divorce proceeding were ugly (Wife asked for ½ of the money I spent to bury my Father be paid back to her?since it was marital money) the whole courtroom went completely silent when she and her attorney made the request to get half of the $18,500 (Thank you for catching this Nellie1...my typing is not the best...this was $8,500 not $18,500) burial expenses back!<p>30. I?m trying to move on.<p>Since our divorce, my job has taken me to other cities and I?ve not told my ex-wife where I had relocated. Each of the two times I have moved, I would get hang up calls at my office would not stop. Each time when the security department had them traced?the info indicated they were coming from my ex-wife.<p>Now?this past year we sold the last of some joint assets that was called for in the decree and also indicated how any taxes would be paid on the transaction. Now my ex-wife is disputing the calculation and feels that I still owe her $900.<p>She just filed a motion for contempt of court and has subpoenaed me to a hearing on the matter in district court next month.<p>The court costs and lawyers fees will be in excess of $1,800 to $2,000 each if we proceed. We do not talk since our conversations always migrate back how I?m a defective person and while I?ve taken 100% responsibility for what I did?my spirit and soul do not need that all over again.<p>If those of you who are BS, made the decision to divorce your partner?and married a new partner in the meantime why would you want spend all this type of energy on your ex-mate?<p>This is hard to understand.<p>mrrlk
[img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Nellie1...(Thank you for catching this my typing is not the best...the combined funeral and burial costs were $8,500 not $18,500) - mrrlk<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: mrrlk ]</p>

Mrrlk,<p>All I can say is WOW! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Your "Ex" sounds like you should be GLAD she's an "EX" - sorry!<p>I am BS, and I can tell you, I WAS angry with my WH for a time, but I have come to realize my lack of responsibility in our M that led to my H's A. I'm so sorry your EX-W never came to that same conclusion. Instead of feeling sorry for YOURSELF, feel sorry for her new H!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>OK, to answer your question, I think if *I* were in your shoes? I would promptly PAY her the $900. It would be a small price to pay to avoid the aggravation of having to deal with her any further. <p>Also, I would have an attorney DRAW UP SOME KIND OF papers stating that there will be NO contact of any sort between you from this point on. Then, if she DOES continue to "badger" you at work with phone calls, you could get a restraining order to stop it. Sounds like you should be GLAD to be away from her!<p>I'm sorry, I just read your last 2 paragraphs, and realized that you didn't really ask for help on the $ issues, but to know WHY she is still angry at you!! I really don't have an answer to that, I just feel like those should now be her issues, SHE has to own them. You need to get away from her, totally UNentangled and move on. She's going to continue to play the victim of your infidelity for a long time, I guess. SOMEHOW, it serves her well, and she's hanging onto it. Cut her loose, whatever it costs you....it's the only way you could hope to have peace, apparently.<p>Good luck, and may God Bless.

MRRlk,
Welcome back to the forum. I am a newbie here and usually I am asking advice not giving it. However, as a BS who asked her husband for a divorce I thought maybe I could comment on your
post. <p>Its been 1 and 1/2 years for me since the D was final and I still have a lot of repressed anger inside me for my exh and his OW (Thats the reason I came to this site). I made my WH leave because he was cheating (again)and I had finally decided that being alone was better than being married to someone like him.<p>In my uneducated opinion your exw has not moved on with her life. Yes she got re-married, but it seems evident that her energy is still directed towards you and not to her new husband. Maybe she thought that a new man would help her get past the pain of the A and the D. It sounds like she hasn't dealt with her feelings about the marriage breakup.
I made the mistake of getting involved with someone right after my divorce was final. I ended up hurting him very badly because I didn't really care about him that much- I just wanted to show my exh that I had moved on and that other men found me desirable. I was trying to fix a bruised ego and build my self-esteem through a relationship with another person. It didn't work but seeing my exh's jealous looks sure felt like sweet revenge!
Now the question: how do you feel about your exw and her new marriage? Do you want to cut off all contact with her or somehow have a friendly/civil relationship? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Take care Lisa

lupolady<p>Thank you for your thoughts! Yes...I do reflect each day and understand that even though it was my behavior that was the explosion and earthquake that really caused our marriage to implode, that I'm better off now not being married to her...just have to ensure that she has "cut the cord" more than she has.<p>You know what is amazing to me is that many BS here do a Plan A...some for a short time but some for many weeks or even months! You did a plan a for 10 months!...and I have to believe from what I see posted here from all of the partners that were the BS...that a Plan A is a very difficult thing to carry out...takes an gigantic effort to pull it off without what the Harley's point out can me the LB's that will make the WS not even consider working on the marriage and run to the OW/OM in a heatbeat!<p>I have to believe that you had hurt...anger...and all the emotions that my ex-wife had...and what made you be able to hang-in there for 10 months in a plan A?...Was it your core values?...your upbringing?...your religious faith?...?<p>And...the point that you make...about looking at yourself...and seeing how you may have contributed to the problems in your marriage...(No...you were not the cause of your husband having an affair...that was his choice...and I accept the responsibility for that as my decision and nobody else!)...Before you can come to any conclusion about what role you may have played in the conditions that can make an affair possible in your marriage...you have to first want to look in the mirror at yourself! I applaud you for that!<p>Your suggestion is a wise one...I may just pay the $900 extra she now claims she should get just to get this behind me and your idea about no contact is a good one. To be honest...sometimes I feel my ex-wife gets angry that I do not engage her and fight, argue and be an a**hole back! Not my choice on how I want to interact with her.<p>Yes...the anger is hers and that I'm sorry for her yet I think has to find a way to deal with it...but after three years and a new husband still aiming all that anger at me since we have gone our separate ways seems not fair to her new husband.<p>Thanks for all you comments and believe me...I try move on each and every day!<p>
scifigal78
Thanks for the welcome back! <p>Yes...I think your observation that my ex-wife has not moved on it right on!<p>And after 3 years...still wanting to be vindictive and focus on the revenge trip all seem so much of a waste of energy for her since she is now trying to build a new marriage.<p>I'm going to bet that the fact that she would not consider SF in our marriage for the last 8 years, she still feels was very acceptable in her mind even though she wanted everyone to think that we were the great happy couple! Living a lie is a really hard thing to do for your spirit and soul!<p>I have no anger or negative feelings towards my ex-wife. I really do wish that she finds a life fully of happiness and joy with her new husband. But it will not come automatically...if SF is important to him...it will eventually be something that they as a couple will have to address...because it will not fix itself automatically! I do hope that she is happy!<p>We do not talk at all since most of her communication is to still remind me of what I did and her continued reminder of how much of a defective she things I am.<p>I accept 100% responsibility for what I did...and I'm working each day to forgive myself a little more than the day before to help my spirit and soul stay alive and grow.<p>I really can not deal with all her negative energy and poision just to try and maintain any type of a relationship where we would talk on a regular basis.<p>Again, thanks for your perspective and your thoughts.<p>Best to you...take care...<p>mrrlk

Hi mrrlk:<p>I am the BS and I can tell you that she has not completely dealt with all the issues concerning the affair and divorce. She should seek counselling for herself to finally deal with and put behind her the pain and anger. I would be a little concerned about the depth of her harrassment and the lengths she will go. <p>It has been three years for me and I can tell you that I still have anger and pain, but no way would I ever start calling my ex or harassing him. <p>Maybe you should consider paying her the $900.00 and draw something up for no contact like was mentioned before, because until she gets some help, I can not see you having a civil relationship with her. Does her current husband know about what she is doing?? That may be an option to explore telling him so that he may be able to aid her in getting the help she needs. If done without malice, I can't see a problem with it. You would think that after a divorce and remarriage that she would be moving on.<p>Anyway, good luck with it!! Not sure if I helped at all.

Mrrlk,<p>If only my exh would admit that he had an affair and showed some remorse for the pain he caused I could probably get rid of the anger I still feel for him and move on. He still denies everything and tells people that our divorce was because we had grown apart.<p>You on the other hand have admitted to your affair, taken full responsibility for your choices, and your exw is still trying to punish you. IMHO you have paid your dues and don't deserve to be treated like this.<p> I too feel sorry for the new husband.
Lisa

mrrlk,<p>I can only tell you that I was very angry with my x before the divorce but I had to quit behaving as a victim and start behaving like a survior. Even if I was angry with my x, I wouldn't show it to her. That would prove nothing but I still thought about her. It's obvious that she still thinks of you, and that thought hurts her. She is stuck in the anger stage. She won't be good to anybody, including herself, if she doesn't stop this cycle.
The sad thing is you can't do anything about that. This anger that she feels is all hers. She will have to put a stop to it herself. <p>Just my .02

Mrrlk,<p>In my defense, I admit to having a LOT of anger at first....I don't know if my sig line makes the whole story clear or not. <p>I came home to an empty house one Friday afternoon....my H had packed up and moved out, to OW's house in ONE DAY (I had NO IDEA we were that bad off) AND Div. Papers were waiting for me in the mailbox.....<p>Yes, I had a LOT of anger that first week or so....he had requested I NOT contact him. I tried, he had his cell turned off. Then, in my desperation, I went on line looking for help. I found a Divorce Support Group on line. A bunch of ANGRY, COMPLAINING people bashing their STBX's. Something told me this didn't "feel right." THEN, someone on that board made reference to THIS board, and here I came. I was hooked!! I learned ALL I could about infidelity (keep in mind that I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW OW was involved when he first left - she lives 180 miles away, WHEN was he seeing her?!?!?!). I didn't find that out for about a week. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Once I did, however, ALL the pieces fit!! THEN I WAS ANGRY. HOWEVER, that didn't last long, as I had to take inventory of MY actions (like your W, NO SF offered to him for a Loooooong time), and it became very apparent that I was not meeting HIS EN's for a long time, any more than he was meeting mine! With us both basically IGNORING each other for so long, what could I expect?<p>From this site, and learning all I did from the Concepts pages, I then got "linked" to another website, RestoreM.org. It was there that I saw that God CAN AND WILL RESTORE a M. There is more to it than simply that, obviously, but I began to feel that God COULD do that for me, and He could give me "another chance" to be the kind of Wife I SHOULD HAVE BEEN to my H all along, but had stopped being. <p>It was at that time that I realized I COULDN'T hold only HIM responsible for what had happened to us, and God convicted me and assured me HE COULDN'T RESTORE ANYTHING IF I REFUSED TO FORGIVE MY H (and myself) for what had happened. I was forced to quickly give it over to the Lord. I blew it, and for that I will always be sorry. I want reconciliation, I want my M restored. I want another chance with him!! I don't know if I'll ever get it, but I would like to try to get us back on track. I pray we will get that chance.<p>Secondly, I was drawn back to the Lord. Yes, my H had suggested such just before he left with this comment: "We REALLY need to start going back to church." THEN TEN DAYS LATER HE LEFT!! Well, he may not have gone back to church, BUT I DID. I found out that God had NOT forgotten me, that He had been waiting for a long time for me to come back, and that He was going to heal my hurts, and put my life back together again. As I stated above, He could ONLY do that if I DID NOT harbor any hatred, or unforgiveness in my heart. In other words, I couldn't afford to not forgive my H!! I needed God's healing for myself if nothing else....so I gave it all to Him. It hasn't been easy.....I don't want to make it sound like it has. It has taken me months and months.....<p>As far as Plan A'ing my H for 10 months. Understand this: He has lived w/ow for the entire time, 180 miles away. The only Plan A'ing that goes on, goes on LONG DISTANCE. We have seen each other face to face only twice. It's only in phone calls and letters that I can Plan A him. HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. HE IS GONE. PERIOD. Never looked back. That's hard to deal with.<p>The ONLY thing that keeps me going is the "statistics" that say HE WILL come out of the "fog." I hope so. <p>Anyway, mrrlk, I didn't mean to "hijack" your thread, just to let you know that it CAN be done if one wants to forgive and "let go" of the hurts. Obviously, your Ex does not. But, without God, I think it's MUCH harder to do. I agree with Scifigal that a lot of your Ex's anger is her OWN bruised ego talking. It's funny - YOU had the A, but she brought all her "crud" from it into her new relationship. With this much stuff unresolved in her, the odds of this new M working are not high.<p>Take care and God Bless,

Deb's Sky-<p>Thank you for your comments. I will never know what she felt, but many BS have told me the anger and pain does linger...and that I think I really do understand.<p>It seems people act/react differently to that anger and pain. Her mother is a pretty negative influence on her life and used to "Coach" her on how to get even with personal friends or business associates that she felt had "Wronged" her!<p>I just look at myself and if I had re-married, investing negative energy on an ex-spouse vs. trying to do a better job of meeting my new partners emotional needs would be a very easy choice for me.<p>Yes, I think your suggestion about the $900 dollars may be the thing to consider...yet I really did not do anything wrong or outside the language of the divorce decree...the fact that my ex-wife wants to engage me in a court of law is the issue...in reality I do not think the $900 is her real issue...she just wants me to have to spend money to appear in court and since money was much more important to her than it was to me...she believes that is the way to be vindictive and have me experience the anger/frustration of going to court and spending more money.<p>You bring up a very good question about her new husband...does he know that she is investing all this energy in filing a court motion? I would have to say that either he does not know...or he is a part of the entire initiative of getting me back in court. Either way...what a way to start a new marriage.<p>...and if he does not know...well I really do not want to stir that pot with my ex-wife and her new husband. Remember...this is the same woman that stood in the court and smiled and knodded her head in a very affirmitive way when she and her attorney gave their speach on getting 1/2 of the money back I had spent for funeral and memorial services to bury my Father.<p>Really belive that now her healing and how she grows is up to her and the support and help she can get from her new partner. Any effort on my part would never be accpeted by my ex-wife as a genuine and caring act on my part and I'd be reminded many many times by her of what I did and how I'm so defective! So...if I can pass on that option, I think I will.<p>Yes...your last comment about moving on I agree with...but...my ex-wife has made the concious decision to stay stuck in her anger at me since that must feel right for her. That, I'm sad for her and the poision that anger feeds into her spirit and soul.<p>Thanks for your comments.<p>
scifigal78-<p>I understand your wish that your husband would acknowledge his actions. After what I went through I must say that it takes a sense of some safety to be open to do that...I can tell you that when I confessed...my wife did not believe me at first...once it sank in...I did not know until after we were in the divorce preceedings and I had found MB that there were things like a plan A, plan B and that a counselor should not always want to focus on the WS and how much of a defective person they were as a major part of the counseling. Your attitude would be challenged by my ex-wife for sure...that is to say any discussion excluding ongoing punishment she would argue fails to remind me of my behavior and the daily consequences I should be reminded of.<p>I too feel sorry and sad for the new husband either way...if he does not know...I feel sorry for him...but if he does know...I think I feel even more sorry for him as part of her behavior.<p>
Roughneck--
I never thought about what you pointed out...but in her case...I guess it could be true. Gosh...how could she still be thinking about me in any aspect other than that filled with hate and anger?<p>If she is thinking about me as you say...man...her new husband is really getting an unfair foundation to try and build their new marriage on. But that is her choice.<p>Yes...I agree with you...the anger is hers...and each time she dials up her radar sights to try and directly hit me with a burst of her vindictive anger...it only hurts her more. I hope she does get some help/counseling...but she felt in much of our counseling that anytime the mirror tilted her direction and called out for her to look into a mirror at her side of the equation...she felt that therapist was "attacking" her for no reason and would suggest that we not visit that person ever again.<p>Lupolady--<p>Sorry if I sounded like I discounted or minimized your hurt and anger...I can understand how his actions and behavior of leaving the house empty that Friday afternoon was like a brick wall slamming into your heart and soul.<p>My point was that with even all that...and the long distance situation...you decided to do a plan A!<p>Oh...I think we all (BS & WS) wish we had been armed with all the knowledge and understanding for the topics that we later learn on MB.<p>Yes...not seeing your partner not doing antthing to try and work to find your way back is hard to deal with.<p>My ex-wife never even contemplated a plan A...and when I see some of the BS's here do a plan A that is 3 months, 6 months, 10 months, a year of more...with the WS in and out of the fog...wanting to come back to re-build and try to find a way back, I'm just blown away! What I really cheer about here on this site is when I read that a couple has come back the the depths of the A, and found their way back...not an easy road...but have but their compass in line with trying to rebuild their marriage. That really makes me want to hooray for the entire MB site.<p>I'm also reminded of the reply I received from one MB member that reminded me that as the WS, I really did not deserve any plan A and the fact that my wife had filed and skipped plan A and plan B...probably was what I untimately deserved!<p>Starting a new marrigae with all that poision and anger I feel sad for her new husband...<p>Some books that have helped me...
How Good Do We Have To Be?
Understanding Guilt and Forgiveness
Harold S. Kushner<p> Making Peace With Your Past
Harold Bloomfield<p>To lupolady, scifigal78, Deb's Sky and Roughneck...how are you all doing at this point in your path?<p>Again, thanks [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] to all of you for your input and thoughts...that is what continues to set this site apart from the rest and make is so important I think to all of us!<p>mrrlk<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: mrrlk ]</p>

Are you absolutely certain that you have made it 100% clear to your ex-wife that you accept 100% responsibility for your affair, and that you are remorseful? It can't hurt to tell her again. I get the feeling from reading your posts that she doesn't believe you are truly remorseful.<p>You said
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I must say that it takes a sense of some safety to be open to do that<hr></blockquote><p>I assume by "safety" you are refering to "emotional safety," not that you are worried that she is going to shoot you. A truly remorseful WS would feel obligated to admit responsibility and remorsefulness, and be ready to accept his spouse's anger and pain.<p>You do not HAVE to feel "safe." It is certainly nice to be able to feel that way, but being honest, admitting your remorse, and apologizing are what is really important. Children often use that as an excuse for why they do not admit wrongdoing - that they were afraid their parents would be mad at them. An adult admits wrongdoing even knowing full well that the wronged party will be mad.<p>It has become very evident through reading here over the last several years that the majority of WS's, especially those who do so after a long marriage, are excessively scared of other people being angry at them. Often they can and do dish it out, but they can't accept being on the receiving end. Some therapists, such as Frank Pittman ("Private Lies") believe that adultery stems from problems in a man's relationship with his father, especially when the man was not certain that he was "good enough" to deserve his father's love. Some people feel, at least on some level, that when someone is angry with them, the angry person does not love them - most of us with kids know that there are plenty of times when you are angry with your children but that certainly doesn't mean that you stop loving them - but not all kids, and not all adults, are capable of really believing that anger and love can co-exist.

Hi mrrlk!<p>It's good to see you back! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do agree that your ex's anger is all hers. I still get angry with my ex. Not about what he did to me but about the impact all of this has had on our kids. After so long, you would think that she would have moved on. Hopefully for you, and her, that will happen soon.<p>Take care,
Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Well I was the WS and even though my ex never married he hooked up with his girl friend 2 weeks after discovery and has been living with her now for almost 6 years. They "say" they are getting married but who knows? Took my ex four years before he stopped harassing me and hurting his kids in an effort to hurt me. Believe me, he was just as crazy as your ex if not more and to make matters worse his girlfriend was just as bad as him! Now we just avoid each other. Your lucky the two of you didn't have children together. At least my kids are old enough to have conversations with him without my having to be involved! His parents told me that his behavior was because of unresolved issues he had regarding me and like I said, he was really bad for 4 years. You got good advice...pay your ex off and get something in writing that says she is to have NO contact with you what-so-ever. I feel sorry for her poor husband! She can't make that marriage work when she's putting so much energy in bothering you.

mrrlk,<p>Well, I must say I read this, and the first thing that popped into my head was..........she still wants you back. I know, sounds crazy based on her behavior, but there is a reason for her to be acting like this.<p>Remember when you were a child and your parents said no to something your really wanted? Our tendancy as a child is to *plead* our case, through tantrums, tears, pouting, or whatever it takes for our parents to give us their attention and *give in* to us. Now, we know as parents that this is not the way to *get* what we want, quite the opposite, actually, but children often times have a difficult time distinguishing the difference. <p>IMHO, you XW is trying to get you to still pay attention to her, and is resorting to the only behavior that has effectively worked for her in the past. Like someone else said, she may be remarried, but she certainly has not moved on. <p>This is only my opinion--wacked out as it may be--but I wouldn't be at all surprised that this new marriage collaspes soon, perhaps she will even blame you for it's demise--all because she longs to have you love her, the way she needs.<p>Give this to God, mrrlk. He is the only one that can truly help you and your ex. I will say a prayer for you.<p>God Bless,
Broken

Welcome back mrrlk!<p>Wow, you have been to heck and back haven't you?<p>I believe forgiveness is granted from your higher power, not your ex. Put guilt at His feet. Also forgive yourself!<p>I confessed the affair to wife 100% my responsibility<p>You did what you should have done. Your ex provided no window of opportunity to do any more. Anyone with that much anger after the passing of time, creating a amother marriage is probably feeling guilty about themselves. Anger/Guilt<p>Please take care and remember to forgive yourself!<p>Gayle<p>And stick around! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Mrrlk,<p>This a great thread- the questions and responses have given me some insight into my own thoughts and behavior. I have never harrassed my exh but I don't do anything to make his life easier.<p> I could empathize with your exw when she locked you out of the house and threw your belongings out on the driveway. I also did not give my exh any chance for a plan A or B, just told him to "get out". Looking back I realize that my pride stood in the way of any chance for reconcilliation. I didn't even tell people the truth about our divorce until it was final because I didn't want others to pity me.<p>As someone else said your exw is acting like she still cares for you. If she didn't care she wouldn't still be angry she would be indifferent. She seems to be able to find a way to keep in contact with you. You might think this legal situation is the end of your contact with her but I bet she finds something else to harrass you about.
As the BS I would like my exh to wake up and realize just what he lost, and yes to want me back. I don't want him back-I just want him to WANT me back. OK, its pride rearing its ugly head again but maybe that could be your exw's problem also?<p>How am I doing on my plan? Thank you for asking. Within the last month I have finally been able focus on what I did or rather didn't do during our marriage to contribute to its demise. I have even written my exh a letter asking his forgiveness for making his life with me so miserable (He doesn't get that letter just yet). Its a start down the right road to recovery. Lisa

Nellie1
Yes I have made it 100% clear that I accepted without any question 100% of the responsibility for my actions. I?m the one?the only one that made the decision and no one else and moreover that I was sorry for the earthquake like destruction I did to her and our marriage. I also made the decision to confess my actions and accept the consequences of my behavior.<p>It can?t hurt to tell her again? Well that is where I really do not agree with you. After three years, everyone has a choice as to if and how they want try and heal and move on from not only an event as devastating as an affair but from any loss, setback, missed hope / dream or even the death of a loved one that can be hurled into our lives.<p>My ex-wife took every opportunity to use my mistake to use as a platform to punish me over and over again. The many times the topic was revisited by either one of us, both before and even after we divorced, my ex-wife would use the opportunity to rub my face in it and remind me of how in her mind I was and continued to be a really defective person.<p>I agree with your comment that a truly remorseful WS would feel obligated to admit responsibility and remorsefulness and be ready to accept his spouse's anger and pain.<p>How a BS decides to act on those feelings of anger and pain and acts out those feelings does seem to end up generating a number of varied types of behaviors that I?ve seen from all the varied MB posts and really seems to differ from couple to couple. I cheer when I see couples try to find their way back to rebuild and heal to once again make their marriage loving, caring and ?Walking The Talk? about the importance of doing all that they can to identify and satisfy their partners most important EN.<p>Repetition may be the key to learning but after three years it is not the key to building or starting any type of foundation for healing or thoughts to forgive to begin that first step to try and find a path and a way back.<p>I have read Pittman, (Private Lies, Grow-Up! And Man Enough) and I do agree with your comment that anger and love can co-exist. I think in the day-to-day of life and any relationship it is how one acts upon those feelings of anger that is just as important.<p>I?m moving on and doing the best I can each and every day to forgive myself and continue to ask for forgiveness to help me grow and heal. My ex-wife has re-married and I really do wish her new life to be filled with joy and happiness! But I have no desire to engage in additional conversations regarding my remorse and or accepting the responsibility for what I had done since it always gets repackaged as punishment!
Sadly, my ex-wife seems to have the same continued level of anger and vengeance in her soul that she did the same day she stood before me and the Judge asking for ½ of the money back I had just spent on the memorial service and burial of my Father.<p>
Mitzi-
{{{{ Mitzi }}}} Long time! You know I always used to say you were the poster child on how to Plan A and the best at hanging in and trying to do everything you could do to find your way back?no matter what your family or friends would tell you. How are the kids?<p>
BonnieSept-
Thank you for your comments. Yes?believe it or not I really did want children?and boy I think it was a blessing that we never had any at all!!<p>I will probably pay the additional money my ex is asking for but I meet with my attorney the end of this week. His sole commentary so far is that per the decree I have followed all that is required of me. I will learn more for sure this Friday.<p>I do feel sad for her husband?what an ?Oh By The Way There Is Something I Must Tell You? kind of moment! Wonder what her POJA was for her new marriage.<p>Brokenspirit-
WOW?You really think that someone who wants you to get back in their life is going to achieve that by putting a gun to your head? I really never thought about her wanting me back. I really do not really think that is the case.<p>I do understand your point?starting a new marriage while you invest energy in your previous marriage which has already ended is a dangerous thing to do. I?m not so sure she is longing for me to love her, the way she needs.<p>Yes?I?m going to hand this one off to God?because it is clear I sure do not possess the wisdom or understanding on how to get this divorce behind me once and for all.<p>Thank you for the prayer?I think I?m going to need all the support I can get.<p>Ragamuffin-
Thank you! Your orginal post that talked of revenge is what got me to ponder how other BS are feeling and have been going through after 1, 2 and 3+ years after divorce. No I really have not been to heck and back?just seems that way!<p>scifigal78-
We had just moved into our new house that my ex-wife thought would make up for some of the EN that neither of us was not putting our emotional investments in. What really felt like I had been stabbed in the heart was seeing all the stuff from my Father and some of the things he had given me but also when I saw his picture that she trashed which I had taken of him.<p>Oh...you are not the first person that says even though she has remarried she may still be stuck in the anger phase and even more unique that she is still wanting to talk with me. That is hard for me to grasp and understand. At this juncture I'm just going to worry about me.<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: mrrlk ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>that she did the same day she stood before me and the Judge asking for ½ of the money back I had just spent on the memorial service and burial of my Father.<hr></blockquote><p>You also seem to be still angry and resentful about that. I can see your wife's point of view - that seems like an incredibly huge sum of money to spend on a funeral. My sister and I spent about $500 when our parents died, although admittedly that was twenty years ago. I would have been pretty upset if she had insisted on spending the equivalent of $18,500 on burial expenses from our inheritance, and my depression-era parents would have rolled over in their urns at the thought.

Nellie1-<p>Thanks for the catch. My typing has never been the greatest...and after 10:00pm at night it can get worse...I edited my original post and noted your catch on the $18,500 vs $8,500<p>WOW...you must have had a great plan for your parents to cover all costs for $500...that is pretty much unheard of when you are talking the prevailing costs even 20 years ago.<p>Friend of mine lost both his Grandfather and Father this past November. Was the 1st death in his family and he asked me to help him first with his Grandfather and then again with his Father.<p>His Grandfather had a pre-paid plan that he took out in 1980 that paid for everything...it cost the family nothing!...and they had to do nothing since it had been all preplanned and prepaid!<p>His Father on the other hand had not even made out a will and funeral arrangements had to be made from square one.<p>As I helped my friend prepare all the arrangements, he did a lot of homework/research...the average costs in 2001 for an adult funeral was $5,500+ and for the cemetary/burial costs was $2,200.<p>You have made the assumption that the claim and argument my ex-wife was making on the funeral costs was a bonafide claim and legit. It was not! It was not about the money but just about pushing my buttons and the Judge basically said to her and her attorney...forget it!...next item on the agenda!<p>The issue on what I spent was moot when I produced the documents for the court showing that all but $1,000 of the costs were paid for by money that was in my Fathers checking account and a legit cost to be paid for by his estate. I spent the extra $1,000 to upgrade his casket and funded that from a savings account that my Grandfather had opened up with my Father and I when I was in college that my Father had kept open all those years.<p>But the most important part of all this was what was done for my Fathers service and burial was what he wanted...what he had decided on when it became clear his cancer was not ever to have the chance to go into remission. My sister and I really were not looking at the costs it would take to honor my Fathers burial wishes and what impact it would have on his estate or any potential inheritance. He had made his wishes very clear and my sister and I just honored those wishes.

mrrlk,<p>To answer your question about my path, well, I take it a day at a time. I can't say that I'm completely over everything (which I'm not sure everyone completely recovers after infidelity and divorce. I guess you could say that the innocence was lost!) But I have forgiven her and forgiven myself for the failure of our marriage. I still get angry with her about certain things (child rearing, etc...) but what else is new. I don't ever show her that I am upset. I have learned once again in my life to hide my feelings. (Personally, I don't think it is healthy and working on it.) <p>I haven't been looking for anyone new because I am scared to death that I would not treat them as good as the deserve. I think I need to wait a while for I feel that I am not myself yet. I'm not whole. (If that makes any sense)
I just rear my children, ride my scooter and work. Plain and simple....<p>Regards<p>RN

mrrlk,
I guess I can be classified as one of thos still angry at my x, although I think it is more to do with how she treats the kids, at least in my eyes.<p>Just last week she "forgot" she had the kids and was planning on going to a Christain concert with a friend, even though she has had the kids every weekend for 3 months. When she sensed I was angry she went to the "I deserve a life too" card and tried to push my buttons in some other areas.
She also said the kids could stay alone the night before.<p>Later that night she told me she wasn't going and would take son to his ballgame(she was going to get him a ride with someone else). She told her friend that I wouldn't let her go. A few days after that she said that the kids were too young to stay by themselves. <p>So this is the stuff I get angry at. She pays her child support on time(its taken from her salary)and when I have asked for additional funds. she usually gives them to me, although it may take a month. Of course, this was all before om was out of the picture, so I'm not sure how things will be now.<p>All our other financial issues are complete. Again, for me it is kid issues, being used by her as a babysitter, not taking them into consideration, and some jealousy(her and om/h took the kids to Fl twice and I can't afford that every year.<p>I get mad too when I get frustrated with life, bills to pay, chores to do, kids to run around and I have to do it all myself. This was not what I had planned when I got married.<p>That maybe what your x is angry about too, and she has compounded by marrying real quick and maybe having problems there too, so you are an easy target to blame all her problems.<p>My x did appologize, but I really don't think much of it. I did post it here somewhere a couple months ago. You probably could do a search if you are interested.<p>She also told me she "knows how I feel" because her om/h cheated on her with his x. Both the appology and these comments came across to me as "poor Carol." They really have not had any affect on my forgiving her. They really didn't seem heartfelt. <p>Were yours? I compared hers to her appologizing for something trivial, like taking my parking spot, and me parking elsewhere and getting my car demolished and then saying how bad things were when someone hit her car. Kind of lame example, but that was how I took it.<p>Hope this helps!<p>Bob<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: RWD ]</p>