Ok, if I'm the crazy one, please let me know.<p>Have been divorced for a month and a half now, and trying to be amicable with ExH - not a total Plan A, but the best I can - at least for the kids sake. Still waiting for reality to set in with OW, but it will happen as they are planning on marrying and buying a house.<p>However, this is my delimma - he is adament about the best thing for our 3 month old daughter(and our other children) is for me to totally step out of the picture and just let him and OW raise the 100% of the time.<p>Well OW has two kids of her own, and I don't think that ExH understands women all that well to think that OW will want to just willingly form this magical bond with 4 more kids - not to mention a newborn - and what will her 2 daughters think?<p>ExH just doesn't have a clue.<p>We will be going back to court so that he can say those exact words to the judge. <p>So, am I wrong to hold my ground and do what every child psychologist has said and just let him have her at least 50% of the time with no gradual working up to full days and nights?<p>I am working on standing up for myself and the kids, but just hearing this come out of his mouth all the time is really hard and then he gets mad when I say that I am going to do what I think is best for the kids - and what ExH thinks is just not right.<p>So - anyone have any info. about this? Joint custody is presumed in my state, but I can't imagine a judge going along with what he proposes, but anything is possible.<p>I want so badly not to fight with ExH about this, but ExH won't relent.<p>Looking for anything that will help. Thanks. K

I don't know where you live but you can bet that I could find your X if you lived close to where I live! Central! That is where they keep the mentally challenged people! That is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. <p>In Louisiana the woman would have to have needle tracks in both arms, beating her child and smoking a joint in front of the judge for something like that to happen. <p>I know that you don't want to fight with him but when it came to my kids, you are stepping on sacred ground! Nobody, I mean NOBODY messes with my kids and my time with them. <p>You explained one reason that I might never get married again, or atleast till my children are grown! If I get married again, I come with three children! It's a package deal, you don't like my children, huh, you might as well not like me! <p>Sorry but this thread has my blood boiling! THE NERVE!<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Roughneck ]</p>

Ok. ok. Guess what - I'm in you're state - and I know the law - and I really want him to be a part of their lives - I mean, I have three boys you know - and well, you know what they say about daddy's little girl - <p>But he tells me on a regular basis that the kids - well really the baby, needs her father as much as me, and there is no difference between us - ok I'll gladly let him breast feed if he wants....<p>Anyway, the child psychologists say that while kids need both parents, the baby needs a primary caregiver for the first three years - and it's NOT MY FAULT that ExH wants to not be in the same room with me - I mean what am I going to do to him? (It must be the guilt - and OW telling him he can't.)<p>So he can come by and see her ANYTIME while I'm there, but he wants me not around when he sees her, and wants to take her all day, everyday.<p>So as far as I'm concerned, he's set up his own limitations, but I'm still the bad guy if I don't comply to him - even if that's not what is best for the baby.<p>Oh well. K<p>I just had to add that this is the guy that started the PA after learning I was pregnant and them who left me at 2 months pregnant, didn't lift a finger to help me during the entire pregnancy, and wasn't even there for the birth.<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: God is in Control ]</p>

I think as you do, I think that the father should be part of their lives, I also think as you do about the little one. I have a two yr old that loves her mother. There are times that I keep her and there are times that I don't. Not because I don't want to keep her but doing what is best for her. <p>Don't let him have his way, do what you think is best for your baby, whether he paints you as the bad person or not!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by God is in Control:
<strong>So - anyone have any info. about this? Joint custody is presumed in my state, but I can't imagine a judge going along with what he proposes, but anything is possible.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>((((K))))<p>I presume you have any attourney. I'm curious if Joint Legal or Joint Physical custody is presumed in your state. I know of no state that has the presumption of "Joint Physical" custody because of the commitment it requires by both parents.<p>This is the time that you must be strong and do the right thing for those 4 little angels. What type of custody agreement do you think is fair and best for them?<p>Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

You said it best Bill! I agree with you 100%!

GIIC,
Make sure you document these statements. Any judge would have to think your X is crazy for even thinking it. It seems he still wants to hurt you, because then he controls you.
It's been rough, but you've handled yourself well through the pregnancy and divorce. You'll make it through this stage.
In my state,NJ, there is a distinction between joint legal (presumed) and residential (agreed upon) custody.
My H is planning on asking for full custody too. I just assume he hasn't spoken to his lawyer, or has a really bad lawyer.
He's playing with your mind. Read the Sandcastle's book, it says that young children should not be away from their mother long. In fact it gives guidelines for every age.

this is the guy that started the PA after learning I was pregnant and them who left me at 2 months pregnant, didn't lift a finger to help me during the entire pregnancy, and wasn't even there for the birth.
<p>K....he's already spoken volumes about how he feels regarding *his* baby girl long before she got here!<p>me to totally step out of the picture and just let him and OW raise the 100% of the time.<p>In his dreams! What kind of drugs is he on? (pun intended) If he isn't maybe he needs some! Ye ol' chain yanker he is....I'd let this fall upon deaf ears!

I'm not sure what to say except that I will pray for you and your kids.<p>God bless,
D

I believe in 50% / 50% split<p>.<p>.<p>
.<p>
.<p>when they are teenagers, and are responsible, and you live very close to one another, and I know of one couple that does two weeks, two weeks. . . and it works out fine. . . but they live in the same town.<p>however, i also agree that there should be a sliding scale, and that the dad is far, Far, FAR, FAR less important to a newborn or a 1 year old for that matter than the mom. . . . however, that is not to say that dads don't become more important as they get older.<p>they do, but not for newborns. . .<p>christ, K, don't you know how to handle ODD 5 year olds? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] that is how he is acting, your best response is just. . . . to ignore the temper tantrums. . . he wants total control through manipulation and reality adjustment. . . a very typical move for a BPD person . . . how about just acknowledging you have heard him, and then just pass the buck to the neutral authorities.. .<p>"I understand what you have said. . . and I will let the judge and the psychologist decide. . . "<p>and just keep saying it over and over and over again. . . .<p>practice it . . . . over and over again. . . .<p>wiftty

Thanks all -<p>I am getting wise to his manipulaitons, and I'm learing how to deal with it - honest!<p>But I'm still in the early stages of learning how to deal with him and it does take a fair amount of practice.......<p>Yes, WIFTTY I will practice that line, along with the Uh, huhs, and sounds good and whatever benign phrase I can think of to respond to his gibberish.<p>Usually he doesn't want to talk about anything except for the kids, and all of a sudden he just wants to lash out and I wasn't quite prepared for it all.<p>But I've been told that I CAN DO THIS - meaning learn how to not respond to ExH's antics, and thereby retain control over myself and not relinquish it to him, but old habits die hard and it's a daily struggle right now - but I'm determined to learn how to walk the walk and talk the talk.<p>I feel like we're a part of one of those Chinese finger traps - the one that you put both fingers in and the harder you pull on both fingers the harder the hold it had on you, but if you stop pulling, then you can get your finger out.<p>I need to stop pulling. <p>I'll be cured when I can totally stop pulling.<p>Hopefully one day SOON I can say that.<p>THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE FOR THE PRAYERS AND SUPPORT - and the kick in the behind from WIFFTY(I needed that). K

(((K)))
I am sorry for what you are going through. I am still not sure whether I understood your post correctly??!! That your XH wants full custody?! I am shocked. Surely he is doing this to just get at you. I also agree that he doesn't understand women. All I can do is wish you luck, but I'm sure any magistrate/judge whoever decides could never agree to his insanity.<p>Love and Care
Pantha

Oh Boy....God Is In Control,<p>You know where your kids belong...and it is not with you ex and his OW...<p>The behavior he has had towards you and the baby--to me that is enough to keep him from anything but maybe limited visitation rights. <p>Has he been smoking something????<p>You get the custody of your kids....who has the immoral behaviors....would anyone want their kids raised around that? Not me. Hang tough---I'll be praying for you....Pat

Hey, nice to see you on the Boards. Who says you're crazy? Hubby? <p>Where is XH living right now? His own apartment, his parents' house, or with OW?<p>The very idea of him taking the newborn, breastfeeding infant to spend the night with him and his "fiancee" along with your older kids is too laughable. How often does the baby nurse?<p>I'm also wondering what you respond when he comes up with these proposals, and how you do it. I mean, the idea that you completely 100% clear out of the picture and give over custody of 3 boys plus a nursing infant to him and the "fiancee" to raise. What a harebraned scheme THAT is.<p>Is he actually paying his attorney to draft papers to file with the court and have the judge read and rule on them? Or is he just torturing you with the threat?<p>GIIC< I know that you're an attorney. You must be able to find out whether exH has actually filed anything with the court, I mean, isn't that stuff public record? And if you know who his attorney is, you could find out his/her reputation and ask around to other attorneys to get some idea if they would actually try something like this.<p>Here's my take on his threats: He has strong feelings for you, no matter how involved he has become with the "fiancee." Strong feelings are better than no feelings. He wants some kind of connection with you. What better way to get a reaction and have connection than to say he wants something he knows you would never go along with.<p>There's an element of wanting to hurt you by waving the OW in your face. They're planning to marry, they're planning to buy a house, they're planning to file for 100% custody of your kids. All three plans take money. Are they filthy rich? Attorneys require up-front retainers and money for costs. Weddings are muy expensive. Buying a house - another huge investment, down payment needed, plus all the costs for the closing. Then the house needs to be furnished and decorated.<p>Let's get real. Unless they have a rich Uncle Scrooge who loves peeling off $1,000 bills and indulging their whims, none of this is going to happen. Or, are they planning on having you, the new mother, pay alimony and child support and relinquish all claim to your babies? <p>he can't be serious.<p>Now, back to the threats. And your response/reaction. Try these if you haven't already, delivered with no sarcasm whatsoever. Practice in front of the mirror.<p>"Hmmmm. There's a thought."<p>"THAT's an idea." or "That's some idea."<p>"Ah -hah!"<p>"Oh. Well, gotta go, I'll think about what you said."<p>
"What does _______ think about that idea?"<p>and after he answers, "Oh" or "Uh huh" or "There's a thought" or "Hmmmm." and "Gotta go, there's the door."

Pantha, MnM, Belle -<p>Well, it's hard to say if he's serious or not - it depends upon his mood - I can't begin to keep up with his emotional swings.<p>I think he knows that he could never get more than 50%, but he's so mean that I don't know what he'll do.<p>And no, he isn't made of money - but he's been taking extra shifts wihtout telling me and he hasn't paid me any child support or alimony this month so I guess that's where he's getting the money for closing costs.<p>The bank gave him a loan based on his good name (Ha!) and his word that he has a judgment saying we have to sell the house by the end of Oct.<p>The reality of it is - the judgment isn't signed yet, because his attorney wrote it up wrong and we're waiting for the transcript to see what we really agreed to and then once we get the judgment signed we're going to challenge it because ExH is now going back on what he said that day to get me to agree to the thing in the first place.<p>So there may not even be a judgment for the bank's sake and then we still have to go to court for permanent spousal support, and to increase the child support.<p>And ExH complains about money all the time! I wonder how long it will be until it drives OW crazy. But yet, he's the one who is making this whole thing cost so much.<p>His latest thing is that he wants to divide or "use" some of our community property in his new house. <p>My response is - I don't think so. We don't even have a judgment yet, and I don't have enought money to replace the things he wants to take.<p>Why can't he just work another shift, make $1500.00 and buy his own stuff?<p>Anyway, I've heard that men especially still hold an emotional tie to their former wives and ExH is no exception. He wants to have the cake and eat it too meaning he wants me to take care of his children, but he doesn't want to give us the money needed to do that.<p>Still battling over our family vacation and now division of property.<p>I really just want to give him what he asks for - but it wouldn't make him nicer toward me(I tried that with the judgment and it didn't work), so I have to just do what I think is best for me and the kids. I can't look out for him anymore. <p>Thanks for all the support! K

Dear GIIC<<p>"Well, it's hard to say if he's serious or not - it depends upon his mood - I can't begin to keep up with his emotional swings."<p>Okay, that's good news. Why? Because if he's having mood swings, they aren't happening only when he's talking to you. There's gotta be some love busting going on with the OW. Both ways. That stresses their relationship. Wanna bet she's pressuring him? <p>This is also good because if you can maintain your coolness, he's going to have to get his nutziness out somewhere. You're not locking horns with him, he's still got the adreneline, the frustration from not being able to get into a good shouting match or argument, and he's gotta vent somewhere. With luck, the OW will get some of the fallout.<p>"I think he knows that he could never get more than 50%, but he's so mean that I don't know what he'll do."<p>And you can't control what he'll do. You can only control your own actions.<p>"And no, he isn't made of money - but he's been taking extra shifts wihtout telling me and he hasn't paid me any child support or alimony this month so I guess that's where he's getting the money for closing costs."<p>More good news. He's taking extra shifts. That means he's working hard, getting tired, and seeing the OW less. Their relationship can't be getting too much attention. Remember the Harley rule of 15 hours a week?<p>What do the two of them do together? [Besides sex] They probably badmouth you. And if you're not arguing back with him, they have less to talk about, less to commiserate about. Less in common. Your not taking the bait, so to speak, removes one side of the triangle. Think of a 3-legged stool. If one leg is removed, how does the stool stand up?<p>"The bank gave him a loan based on his good name (Ha!) and his word that he has a judgment saying we have to sell the house by the end of Oct.<p>The reality of it is - the judgment isn't signed yet, because his attorney wrote it up wrong and we're waiting for the transcript to see what we really agreed to and then once we get the judgment signed we're going to challenge it because ExH is now going back on what he said that day to get me to agree to the thing in the first place."<p>More good news for you. Now that you're divorced, when he screws up his credit, it doesn't affect yours. Isn't that wonderful? The two of them can blythely go forward in their new life with a big blotch on his credit record. And her credit? Let me guess: Not so good up 'til now.<p>"So there may not even be a judgment for the bank's sake and then we still have to go to court for permanent spousal support, and to increase the child support."<p>Well, that's bad news, nothing you can do about it but dot the i's and cross the t's and hope your attorney is paying attention to his/her job. (by the way, don't represent yourself, okay? I don't care how good an attorney you are!)<p>"And ExH complains about money all the time! I wonder how long it will be until it drives OW crazy. But yet, he's the one who is making this whole thing cost so much."<p>It's probably getting to her right now!<p>"His latest thing is that he wants to divide or "use" some of our community property in his new house. <p>My response is - I don't think so. We don't even have a judgment yet, and I don't have enought money to replace the things he wants to take."<p>Good for you. By the way, have you changed the locks? The alarm code? Do you have a stay away or restraining order against hubby?<p>"Anyway, I've heard that men especially still hold an emotional tie to their former wives and ExH is no exception. He wants to have the cake and eat it too meaning he wants me to take care of his children, but he doesn't want to give us the money needed to do that."<p>He wants control.<p>You're doing great, I don't know how you manage to stay sane. He's losing a wonderful wife and ruining his life. I'm sorry for the stress on you and the kids. Stay strong.

Belle -<p>You're just wonderful! <p>I was just in the middle of one of those Calgon commercials - I do't know if you remember it but there is a mom in the commercial and everything is happening all at once - the door bells rings , the kids are screaming etc. and she says Calgon - Take Me Away!<p>Anyway, I was having one of those moments and wondering if I'd ever get used to this new life, when I decided to take a quick time out of my own and check the boards and your reply was there.<p>It's really hard for me to imagine that OW does any LBing at all! Even when I told her about ExH basically cheating on her with me I didn;t think she did anything. But I guess you're right.<p>And as far as their quality time goes - ExH either works or has the kids - just like it was with me - really the only time they get is what the kids call "kissy time" when they put the kids in front of a movie(all 5 of them) and then go inthe bed room and do whatever - although he is taking her on a 5 day trip to visit his family in Texas in a week. Jsut enough time to fill up some of her love bank. <p>The way ExH desposits love units is by buying things - he's just buying a house which should make her happy - but then ExH is not around his family(he's still living with his parents) so he won't have anyone to watch the kids but OW - now we'll really see what she's made of. She's neve rhad to deal with 3 boys (she has 2 girls) and 5 kids all the time and then now the baby - well we'll see what happens.<p>Thanks for keeping me on course. No LBing today! <p>K
Really the only ti

Oh, yeah, I know the ones. Calgon Boquet is one of my favorite bath salts - the one with the aloe vera in it. <p>She's GOT to be lovebusting. Just her being there when your ex gets tired, frustrated, when he's complaining about money, and when he gets off the phone with you - and you haven't fought with him - who else is around to vent at? And if you've been a perfect sweetheart, and didn't engage in an argument - well, she WILL slip up, just wait and see.<p>"And as far as their quality time goes - ExH either works or has the kids - just like it was with me - really the only time they get is what the kids call "kissy time" when they put the kids in front of a movie(all 5 of them) and then go inthe bed room and do whatever - "<p>Ugh. <p>"although he is taking her on a 5 day trip to visit his family in Texas in a week. Jsut enough time to fill up some of her love bank."<p>or for the account to go into the red. Are his family so "who cares" that they aren't going to be somewhat aghast at his bringing her to visit while leaving you, 3 boys and an infant daughter at home, divorced and abandoned? Are they that vacant? Or are they taking the 3 boys and her 2 girls with them?<p>"The way ExH desposits love units is by buying things - he's just buying a house which should make her happy - but then ExH is not around his family(he's still living with his parents) so he won't have anyone to watch the kids but OW - now we'll really see what she's made of. She's neve rhad to deal with 3 boys (she has 2 girls) and 5 kids all the time and then now the baby - well we'll see what happens."<p>Ah, still living with his parents. What a big boy. GIIC, buying a house is a big debt, he won't have a lot of loose cash lying around to buy trinkets and baubles after that obligation is taken.<p>And wow, I hope your boys are as wild as our boy was. Nonstop, talking, climbing, jumping, eating, and if there are 3 of them - EXCELLENT! She's going to get a dose. Yep. Boys are wild things, they are. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What if her fantasy is being "Maria" from "The Sound of Music" - the special, magical being who knows just the right thing to do, (unlike all the governesses who failed before) Reality will wear on her like sandpaper. It may not happen right away, but she's going to get witchy. She's going to favor her girls. <p>And let's remember, Plan is still your option when you don't even see the guy. Some of the graduates of MB (NSR/Jim, and Chris, Medic, many others) became strong and healthy by working on themselves, coming here and posting, and some of the people (Like LostVA) reunited with their husbands and recovered. Others, like Resilient, discovered strength in themselves and they help others, encourage and inspire them.<p>You're going to be okay, and so are your kids.<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Bellevue ]</p>