Wow, it's been almost two years since my last post on MB. It really helped a lot the last time I was posting, so I'll see if you guys can help.
Here's my story:
In Aug of 99 I suspected my W was having an affair. After a lot of investigation and emotional hell, my worst fears were true.
The affair was finally over in May of 2000 and I have worked my tail off the last two years to do "all the right things."
Things were still not perfect, but they were getting better. In April of this year, my W decided to back to grad school. She was convinced that she could do and work full time. I had a my doubts and I tried to convey them to her.
I told her that I didn't know if I could handle the fact that my time with her would be next to nothing and that my 4yr old daughter would have little time with her. She took my comments to mean that I was not going to support her decision.
In the last two months things had gotten A LOT better...almost too good, too fast. She was initiating intimacy (something that had not happened in the last two years) and there were constant "I love you's!"
I felt really guilty for suspecting anything, but my "sixth" sense told me to check things out. I got home and got the mail one day. Our cell phone bill was triple what it usually was. After calling the company, the last two months had also been over our usual.
I checked the call log on the phone and it was being erased. We were racking up all kinds minutes but there was no record of any incoming or outgoing calls.
She was to go to Chicago last Thursday and return on Friday for a class that she is taking. She called on Thursday night and said she wanted to stay over on Friday night and get some extra work done. I had a prior commitment on Friday and could not find a babysitter for my daughter.
I ended up taking my daughter with me (I coach a baseball team and I had to put my daughter near the fence and run out in between every inning and check on her!!!!).
It was kind of a hassle but my daughter did really good. Here I am thinking that I am racking up some serious points by going out of my way to help out my W.
Saturday afternoon I checked the call log and noticed that it had not been erased. Some were calls to friends, but there was this *86. I had no idea what it was. After some research, it was a voice mail command. I didn't even know we had voice mail.
I didn't know the password so I couldn't check the messages. Saturday night after my W went to bed, I tried everything. Finally I got it!!!!
There was a new message. I listened and it was from OM!!!!! Message was as follows: "I had a great time last nigh. I hope you did too. Give me a call tomorrow."
I was livid!!!!!!!!! I woke her up and confronted her. Of course, denial, denial, and more denial. After some more prodding, W broke down into tears and admitted that she had spent the night at his house.
She claims that there has never been any physical contact between the two of them (no hugs, no kissing), but I have a hard time believing this.
Anyway, it is still all sinking in. I was very strong at first. It was over as far as I was concerned.
However, I am now weakening. Why am I even considering giving her another chance??????
I have an appt with a lawyer next Tuesday (and a counseling appt). I really want to go through with the divorce. But it is driving me crazy that part of me is wanting to give her another chance!!!!

Help me out please!!!! Any words of encouragement or advice would help!!!!!!

Doug

KindaBlue,
You have a lot of questions that you need to ask yourself. Do you really love her or are you avoiding change? Can you forgive again? What do you want for yourself? along with other questions that I probably have not even asked myself or thought of yet. I have picked myself up by my bootstraps on several occasions just trying to make it through, you are welcome to borrow mine. I think its time that you think about what you want in a relationship for yourself. You have my empathy and my prayers.

KindaBlue,

Oh man, that must have hurt!

I'm so sorry for you. I would be in shock too.

What abour your daughter? The first think to think about is child custody. Get some good legal advice on that first. Maybe you will stay married, maybe not, but at least you should know what you can do to keep your daughter. The laws are rigged in favor of the mother - and there is not much you can do about that.

What a horrible situation!!!

Does your W show any remorse. I doubt it. It sounds like nothing but lies to me. Check with the cell phone company and see if you can get call logs from them. You might need that for evidence. Start snooping on email and anything else you can think of. Go through your W's car and see what you can find. Check her purse too if you can get a chance. Collect evidence. I don't know what for. Maybe just to have some leverage over her. I hate that.

Well, you know the MB way- "Plan A", but at this point I, if I were in your shoes....

I think you need to take some time to get your head together and figure out what you really want. You know there is an affair. You don't have to pretend that there is any doubt about it.

Have you read Love Must be Tough, by James Dobson?

It might help too. Dobson talks about "precipitating a crisis" and "letting the bird out of the cage". I don't remember which comes first. Read this site - review "Plan A". Do some other reading. Think. Wait until you catch your breath. Rushing a divorce is unlikely to make you any happier than doing it carefully - and is quite likely to produce a worse result - and there may still be hope for your marriage.

Keep posting!

-AD

Thanks for the replies!!

Lila---

I have been asking myself a lot of the same questions you proposed. I wonder how much of it is fear of change. I think I love her, but I'm not sure how I can?!? Today, I definitely think I can find someone who will treat me better. I definitely know that I can't go through this again. W and I talked tonight and I told her that, while there are no guarantees in life, I need something about as close as you can get to one before I can even think about working on the marriage. BTW...thanks for the bootstraps, I may need to borrow them real soon!!!!!!

AD---

My daughter was on my mind all day today. I think maybe my biggest fear in all of this is not being around her all the time. I am a teacher and presently on summer vacation. My vacation time is spent with her every year. Two months of her and I together!!!! My W's father is a lawyer (in a different state) and she will probably have access to his financial and legal resources through all of this. Although I think the thought of telling her parents why I am going to file for divorce has her very scared!!!! My parents are both retired and do not have extra money to pass my way. It is going to be hard to fight for anything without putting myself in a financial hole!

She does show some remorse. She called OM on Sunday and told him that she could not see or speak to him again. She said it ended right there. I already called the cell phone company and the call log is on it's way. The only bad part is they can only send a log of outgoing calls. Oh well, some is better than none. I have been snooping but she learned a lot from the last time. Last time there were clues all over the place and this time it was just a gut feeling that I had. Thank goodness she is not a good liar!!!!!!
I'm not sure what "evidence" to collect. She claims that it was not a PA, so I'm actually not sure if the affair will even make a difference.

Thanks again for the replies!!!!!!

Please let me know....am I a complete idiot for even contemplating a "third chance" for W???

I learned a lot from the last time. Although I had a couple hard times today, I am doing OK, considering. I've gone out jogging the last three mornings and I make sure I try to eat decent meals. I am hanging in there although next Tuesday seems like a loooooonnnnngggg ways away. I have a counselors appt at 9:00 and a consultation with a lawyer at 10:15. That will be a very busy day!!!!

Any advice on lawyers?!? I've only got one recommendation. I don't know many people in my area who have had to hire a divorce lawyer. I work about a half hour away from my house and people there use lawyers in that area. I need someone local so I don't have to travel!!! The recommendation is from a friend who had a friend who hired this lawyer but is not sure if she "good" or not. What are the questions that I need to ask?????

Doug

Doug, Boy did I have to read this just before going to sleep. Well you and I have much to share and its not going to be pretty. I believe your wife is setting the wheels in motion. I speak from experiance. The going back to school , the trips , time away from her family and the end result affairs. All text book to me. I have been there. Its time to start protecting yourself. Please get a mini tape recorder and record the admisstion of adultery"do it now". Once you have affairs it starts to become easier to have others. Remember this "You don't fall out of love and have affairs. You have affairs and fall out of love" You need to speak to a attorney with major custody experiance. Where do you find this person?. Go to the source, the Surpreme Court and ask the Law Clerks for a recomondation for the best. They know.... I don't belive that you will ever trust her and without trust there is NOTHING. Start preparing for the end result "D". And get your child or you will lose her. I am now way ahead of you and will end up with Custody. My wife had more affairs then I want to know about and there can never be a future with this type of personality. Try to disarm her but make her talk while you record, then sue for adultery and Custody. Her world will fall apart but you will have the most important thing you own, your child.
To answer your question "No three strikes and your out" Be smart Doug and start protecting yourself and your child.. You need to end the pain. If you don't then you will be served papers within the next few months. You need to be proactive. Go to the Court house where they handle divorce and find your Attorney. Now take a deep breath and start recording everything and start your log book.If you need addtional advise let me know and I will help you. Be strong for your little girl, but be smart.

Kindablue,
Don't record or tape anything without her knowledge, learn from my mistake. My H is a cop, with mental problems but in front of counselors he BS's his way through so I taped a conversation between my H and I and brought it to the counselor. Now he is threatening to have me charged with "interception of an oral communication". Now luckily, he waited to long, the Statute of limitations is two years and it has been well over two years since he learned that I taped the conversation. It would have been more difficult for him to charge me because my tape went to a psychologist not an attorney and was not intended to harm. But I live with being threatened with this. Just watch your back and talk to your attorney before doing anything like this. There is some case law on the internet about this. Just be cautious and don't get yourself in trouble.

Doug: I agree with Lila140-don't do anything until you talk to the lawyer next Tues. If you don't feel comfortable with him/her, ask for a referral to another attorney.

You said you are torn about divorcing and giving her another chance. I say if there is any possible way to save your marriage, do it. You will know when you have done everything you could and then it will be time to divorce.

It seems that when lawyers get involved and the ball starts rolling, it is very hard to stop the process. That's what happened to me. You definitely should see a lawyer and find out your rights but then sleep on it. Don't start anything right away. Good luck and I hope you are able to work things out with your wife.

I can tell you that Taping a conversation between your wife and yourself is admissable in a court of law. This admisstion on record is all you need to file based on Adultery. But please speak to an attorney. I can not tell you how you feel towards your wife only you know this. I can tell you that once the ball is in play it becomes very hard to stop it. Did you mention that her Dad was an attorney ?. If she had an affair once again and is starting a second life for herself "secretivly" that would be enough to give me pause. If she can secretivly meet other men and erase cell phone logs, well whart else does she have planed for you. There are those that are reactive and there are those who are proactive. Which are you?. Be smart, be calculating and be sure of the direction you are headed. The end game from where I stand is "Custody".

Thanks everyone for the responses!!!!!!! You guys are awesome!!!
You have given me a lot of good questions to ask myself.

My lawyer appt next Tuesday is a consultation. Not sure what that means?!? What kind of questions should I ask?????? Or is a consultation where I get to throw my story to her and she gives me a summary of where I'm at?????
Can she give me legal advice during a consultation or will I need to "hire" her first???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Just a few rambling questions!

Thanks Again!!!!!!!
Doug

Hi Doug: At the consultation with your lawyer, she will ask you a lot of basic questions, i.e. date of marriage, children, assets, reason you want a divorce, etc. just to get a feel for your situation. She will discuss your options, your rights, the law as it pertains to your case. In most cases, there is a consultation fee (my atty. charged his regularly hourly rate of $275.00 per hour for my first consultation). She will let you know her fees and how much of a retainer she will need.

I would suggest you make a list of questions you want to ask such as child support, custody, visitation, will you have to pay alimony, how will property be divided, etc. Anything you have a concern about, ask her.

I strongly suggest that you write down all your assets, liabilities, personal information, what happened to your marriage (the affairs) and present it to her at your meeting. It may save a lot of time (and money) to go in prepared. This is what I did and my attorney really appreciated it, and it left a lot more time for us to just discuss my situation rather than having to write everything down.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adamS:
[QB]Doug, Boy did I have to read this just before going to sleep. Well you and I have much to share and its not going to be pretty. QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey adamS---

Not to be pushy or anything....can you give me a little background on your story and where you are at in "the process"....

Just curious.
Doug

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: KindaBlue ]</small>

You have the signs to show that she is not to be trusted. Once a wayward spouse has seen the fantasy about what they could have, they won't find the pleasantness in what they have at home. The other side of the fence is always greener, and believe me, I have seen most of the crud the wayward spouse displays on the the betrayed spouse and the family.

Yes, the lies will continue, until they finally come to the realization that what they have done is morally wrong, emotionally wrong, and psychologically wrong. The family is the one to suffer the greatest, the wayward spouse continues on the path of denial, denial that they ever saw anything good in their present marriage.

Like the others said, did you ever love your wife? I would suspect you did, but this person you have in your home is not that same person. It is hard, cause you looked at marriage for better or worse, richer or poorer, and till death do us part. Many of the wayward spouses do not believe in the vows they stated, they want what feels good to them, until they get out of the fogggg!.!? I am in the situation, that my WH is still int he FOGG. He has shown signs of anger that has hurt the family, he has physically hurt me, and emotionally hurt the kids older kids, and has caused great imbalance in whether the kids feel respect for their dad. This hurts, cause I used to put my husband on a pedestal, but not now. I don't trust a word he tells me, don't trust his actions, and am becoming scared to be n the same room as he is in. Divorce is ugly, causes much pain among everyone, except the wayward spouse.

Ask many questions, go to counseling, and try to save your marriage. It is not going to be easy, and if you have to hire a detective and keep all the evidence for the future if necessary. I did, and it is paying off, during our ugly divorce. I got tired of playing the role my WH will one day see the light. Enough of emotional abuse, physical abuse, enough. Hold all evidence, and keep in a safe place, and make copies. Pray for guidance, and safety.

Ecrovid
Your right about keeping all the evidence, I collected a lot 3 years ago and he did work it to the point that he had me burn all the copies, his statement was that he just could not work on "M" with this being held over his head. So I burned all the copies.... but not the originals! Those I kept in a secure location. I think I knew he has just been leading up to this, so now I am glad I listened to my instincts. He still had one excuse after another for not being there.

I was always an open book, I just don't keep secrets, not anymore, I don't tell anything. The hardest is when you have kids, because he is getting information from her but now he only gets what I tell her and I tell her nothing about him or anything that I don't want him to know. I just enjoy my relationship with her and have fun.

Doug, Sorry for the delay I had a great day at the beach with "my three children". You wanted to know a bit more about my situation and where I am in this journey of divorce and self discovery. No you aren’t being pushy. It started with the discovery of her first affair 1 1/2 years after it started. I realized just a bit too late that she had her own bank account and was never around morning or night and what a crazy cell phone bill, 5,000 minutes all to one number, then I found a beeper used only for his calls. Boy ... Pain like you never felt before. But I forgave and tried to make my marriage work. Well nothing changed, she left before the kids woke and never kissed them goodnight. There is more but it just more of the same. Oh ! she went back to school for 4 years and that was used as a way to leave the house... Three years later I found love letters, but now a new guy this time. Well never being around, OM, drinking and driving and complete indifference to her family. This all from the women I married 14 years ago. Oh by the way when I went on business trips she would not come home till daylight and then found OM cell phone. The next thing I know I get served divorce papers. Soon afterI was told by my wife not to be a deadbeat dad and just move out of the house. "The wife always gets to keep the children” well this deadbeat dad was no deadbeat dad. I was Mr. Mom for the last several years and was going to keep my children under my supervision as the primary parent. And guess what the wife of the deadbeat dad had a lot of explaining to do.
Doug. As the saying goes “Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me." The process of divorce is nothing less then gut ranching but there is light at the end of the tunnel, but it begins with step one. You need to get the goods on her and have a strong case for custody if that is what you want. If she is a very good mother and you know that then you chances diminish. I know that I am without a doubt the primary parent and so does everyone within my circle. But I am because I had to be. Additionally my SBXW is a very bad role model and I would be negligent to my children if I didn't go for custody. My children deserve to have a life where adultery and narcissism are not part of theyre life. Children need normalcy in order to grow. You and I need to live our life without the constant pain of betrayal. I have given you my advice on previous posts and you need to slowly start your plan B. You need to protect yourself emothionaly. If you decide to live your life with someone you can never trust and who is disrespectful to you, well will you be able to look yourself in the mirror. I know its hard but it is always darkest before the light. Be smart but be true to yourself and your child that you love.

KindaBlue,

There is some very good information here on this board. You may want to post your story (or a link to this one) on the GQ ll board as well. Each board has it's own personality so to speak.

You have come to the right place but sorry for the circumstances.

My Wh has had multiple A's over the years. The prior ones where never really dealt with (didn't know what to do) so you are fortunate to have found MB now.

God Bless,

D.

adamS--

Thanks for the reply!!! Our stories have a lot im common and I appreciate your advice and insights! My W has some problems, but otherwise she comes across as a decent mother. She is/was anorexic and a workaholic(which goes back some 15 years to some issues she has with her parents). I think these are some of the issues which haunt her to this present day and prevent her from maintaining a "normal" and healthy relationship with me. Anorexia is like alcoholism, you can get better but you are never cured. Her eating and exercise habits have always worried me and I am always worried about how my D percieves this. My D will tell anyone that her mom only eats salads. That, along with her lying and cheating, will probably be my only arguments. I'm not sure if that is strong enough. Also, my W claims that her A's have never been physical. Do the courts even consider that an A (although I sure do!!!!!!)?!? She claims there has never been a hug, a kiss, or intimacy.
Thanks again!!!!!

WillGetThruThis--
Thanks!!! Let me know how to post a link, not sure how to do it!!!! I would appreciate the help! MB has helped me a great deal! You know, it's kind of weird, but one of our neighbors is going through the hell of an A right now. Her story is a lot more involved in that there are multiple OW and almost everything is physical. I gave her the URL today and told her that I would highly recommend reading and posting!!!

Have a good weekend everyone!!!

Doug

How are you and is everything ok for you. Give us an update.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adamS:
<strong>How are you and is everything ok for you. Give us an update.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey adamS! Thanks for the inquiry. I haven't been on the board lately, been busy.
I am doing fine. I have started to put on some of the 14 pounds I have lost in the last 3 weeks. For some reason I actually have felt really good lately. I don't feel nearly as devastated as I did after the first A. I don't have that feeling that I need to hang on. I am ready and (somedays) willing to end it and move on.
I haven't made any moves towards D since I had my lawyer consult on the 9th. I have started a list of all assets and debts, but other than that not much has happened.
My W had her first counseling appt yesterday. She didn't give me a whole lot of details last night but she said she was pretty drained and she would tell me more later.
We have doing quite a bit together lately and have had some good talks. She actually asked me what I need!!!!!!!!!!! That floored me!
However, she has still not made a firm committment to our M. She is working basically full time and going to grad school full time. So, her reason is that she doesn't "know if she has the time or energy to make a committment." This is the quote that has really been eating at my gut and sending me closer to calling the lawyer back and beginning the D process. She had found a way to make time for OM and found the energy to sneak around and lie to me (which I'm sure takes quite a bit of energy!), but she cannot make a CHOICE to commit.
My counselor recommended a book called "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman which I would highly recommend!!! It described me and my M exactly!! I always thought I was showing my W love by the things I did, but it was not her "love language." We actually talked about the book (I read it and explained it to her) the other night, and she knew exactly what her love language was. One I would have never guessed. So, I have been trying to do more around the house for her (her love language was "acts of service") and she has been somewhat initiating more hugs and kisses (mine was "physical touch", not necessarily just sex...that has only happened 5 times in the last two years since her first A).
So, to finish my rambling, things between us have been better. I have not yet ruled out the option to file for D. There are still days when I cannot believe that I am actually thinking about giving her another chance! Some days I wish I would have filed for D right away and got the ball rolling. When and if she commits to our M, I need to make sure it is a sincere commitment and I'll go from there.

Doug

adamS---give me an update on your situation!!

Have a good week!