My w and I have been married for nineteen years, we married kind of young, she was 18,me 19. 6 years ago we made a major move and I developed a major gambling problem, I got help and got better we also had our 2nd d a year after the move. llong story short I stopped getting help for my gambling that was taking up too much of my time according to w. ende up in binge cycles. this last spring I located an old girlfriend from high school, she recognized i was in a lot of pain, and got me to go to counseling for myself. suggested counseling for both, my w had refused this several times. I got help and in June on my od's birthday off all days decided I waanted divorce, told my w on 7-5, seperated she went out of state, I made plans for trip with old friend who is also divorced. W returned home in couple weeks probs where she was. I had been making major changes in house, couple days later she 180's wants to make it go, tells me this on day I had gone to get paper to file, I had already closed door on relationship, next thing I know I agree to stick it out. Meantime friend has nonrefundable air tickets, and is due in in a week. i told w and friend and I went camping, I still want D am madly in love with friend and vice versa, but she (friend) expects me to try to work it out because of time we have been married, now I don't know what the hell I should do.

Wait - Stop and think-- You married a woman who has has supported your on again off again gambling problems. Stop --- You must think of your family and wife. Get help. Tell you "friend" to hit the road! just an opinion.

I guess I should add that our bedroom became an ice palace, and that I had asked my W to go to counseling, church, etc. many times. I even sugested a sex therapist all was met with hostility, and an even colder bed. I saw a program on the tv about womens drive decreasing after a second or third child due to hormone changes and begged her to get her hormones checked that resulted in a blow up. When I contacted the lost girlfriend from high school we had taken to splitting nights on the couch, with one of us sleeping on the couch most nights of the week. This was when my binge gambling reached it's peak, and I returned to my 12 step program against the wishes of my W, but I knew i had to return for my own good.

<small>[ August 17, 2002, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: dj62 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HeartbrokeinBC:
<strong>Wait - Stop and think-- You married a woman who has has supported your on again off again gambling problems. Stop --- You must think of your family and wife. Get help. Tell you "friend" to hit the road! just an opinion.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for your input, but you will find that I didn't know how to add to the message and expanded it in a reply, she wanted me to stop attending a 12 step program for my gambling which was a fatal mistake as I lost my suport mechanism, and as things went sour, 2 years of sobriety. Her indifference and coldness became my triggers for binge gambleing which is semi-controlled cumpulsive gambling. By the way I live where both gambling and prostitution are legal and did not violate my marriage vows even though I could have driven 10 mins away and paid for it.

I beg to differ. Sounds like you were in an emotional affair long before separation. That "love" relationship is what gives you the balls to want divorce now. Some people won't attempt to fix a marriage and won't leave until they have somewhere else to go. That's no way to deal with life and probably why you are here -somewhere inside yourself you do know right from wrong.

Do what YOU need to do regarding your addiction and don't let ANYONE dictate EVER how you handle permanent recovery. Your wife needs an attitude adjustment about your 12 Step Program. Why would she want you to stop and get sick again?

Your friend was wrong to get involved in helping you with your marriage. She is not a friend anyway, unless you are deeply in love with and sleeping with other friends. She is right to remove herself from this mess. I would advise her to run fast and never look back.

As for the sex, you'll see it over and over again on this web site. When sexual intimacy leaves a marriage for no apparent reason the marriage breaks down - it can cause affairs, just like yours. If your wife really wants to recover, she needs to get her head together about this part of your relationship.

Let your friend go, it is cruel to keep her in your marriage. Now is not the time for you to begin a relationship and 19 years do not just vanish. You need a lot of alone time and healing to be ready for that.

So, stick here at MB a while. Read this ENTIRE site and go to the other forums - you are attemting RECOVERY, not divorce right?

With all that is available here and the counseling (which is GREAT) you should be able to come up with a decision you can live with. It takes time, lots of time, you and the other person in this 19 year relationship owe yourselves that.

Just Do It ...
Counseling

IS

Inshock: thanks for your post, I had already made up my mind about D in case you missed that or I did not convey it well. I also tried to fix M for near 4 years, no response except negative. This is a resourse I have found recently, Like when I posted the message, after having read the info provided on the site for 2.5 hours. I WENT THROUGH HELL for a good 2 years, the last year plus trying to figure out what is wrong with me. My grandparents have been married 62 yrs, my mom and dad 18 before his death, mom and stepdad 20, aunt and uncle 37-38,great aunt and uncle 55+ prior to her death. so divorce was not an option to me. Niether was an Affair, I spent a lot of time with my bible searching for answers and my friend is the one that got me to go to counseling. It is a good thing she did because I cannot take any mood altering drugs on account of my job, and prozac, zsoloft, and the others are mood altering, and when I did go to counseling I was ready for the 12 guage checkout if you get my drift. The second time for that I actually had it in my mouth, and that was the night that I realised that I was filling a divorce. The one thing that kept me from doing it was I did not want friends of my wife and I's to find my body in the morning. So you can see this is not a subject I have taken lightly. I have also spent a lot of time alone in the back country of the northwest this year, this is where I have done the homework that my counselor has given me and alot of soul searching. I'm sorry if it seems that I lashed out at your response, but it seemed to me you lashed out at me when I read yours. I am going to leave up what I wrote because I don't open up easily even with people I trust, and it tells more of my "story" and I want more input from others on the site.
Thanks
DJ

just mho:

you mentioned that you want a D but yet you are posting on MARRIAGE BUILDERS asking for advice.

Perhaps because of 19 years something is still there? Perhaps a part (however small) wants to believe that your wife is the one for you and together you can have the marriage you want?

Go with this little feeling. Give it a try. Honestly what do you have to lose? Ok, a little more time but isn't it worth it to be sure when making a LIFE DECISION such as this? maybe you say you are sure but HOW sure are you? 100%

Why not become 100% sure if you are not?
Because you might lose your "friend"? Think of it this way, if you lost your friend but had the loving marriage you want with the wife you already have, you would not care.

Or are you merely posting here so you can tell your "friend" that you tried by posting a question on marriage help site? and then go off with friend and not feel guilty anymore? thinking you did your bit for the 19 years and all and now you're 100% sure.

as for your "friend" I'd have to agree with the other posters here. The only way to give your Marriage a last try to make 100% sure is to cut your "friend" out of your life. The Marriage may not/won't work otherwise and if you go through with the divorce you may live with guilt for the rest of your life knowing that you did not give your M your ALL because your "friend" was waiting in the wings.

Everyone knows that a rebound is a terrible, unhealthy thing to do relationship wise, but starting a relationship while you are already in one is even worse.

As for your concerns about your M, they are genuine. Just know that even though you have tried in the past, you may not have tried the MB way with counselling from the Harleys. It can work! There may be many things you have not tried.

Just know that your marriage can get better in everyway (including the bedroom getting warmer!) It can happen and does happen.

Resist the irresistable urge to be with your friend and not your wife. You may be much happier for the rest of your life even though you don't think so now.

Here are a few quotes from SAA by the Harley's:

"Over a period of time, as needs go unmet and a relationship falls apart, a new relationship may be created with another individual who satisfies the unmet needs. But learning to meet each other's emotional needs in marriage is far less complicated than going through the agonizing ritual of affairs and divorce. And learning to meet emotional needs is the solution to marital problems, while affairs and divorce make a solution impossible." (SAA p.110-111)

"You married each other because you were in love. And you were in love because you were meeting each other's most important emotional needs- you were the cause of each other's greatest happiness. Since you have been married, you may have squandered your opportunity to be each other's source of greatest happiness. But it can be recovered by going back to what you did before you were married - making it your mission to meet each other's most important emotional needs." (p.121)

Actions cause the feeling of love, you can be in love again with your wife.

Thank you aanast2, Let me make it clear to everyone that I am here to make a go at repairing/rebuilding because I have to be 110% sure. I have also cut it off with my friend. I definatly don't want to get into a cycle of rebounds and such.

DJ

Sorry, it's me again but I do want to clear up that lashing thing. Perhaps it is more about being direct? I do not mean to hurt or negate you at all.

Please, do leave your post up. Give me, all of us a chance to understand. What I am still getting from your posts is that you want to attempt a recovery with your wife? You said that you agreed to stick it out and that's what I responded to.

Lots of us here would appreciate the chance you are giving your wife, your marriage. I did not realize that you have broken it off with the OW. So anything said there was pointless. With all else you have said I am sure that was very difficult and you miss her.

I can't think of a much better way to attempt recovery than both spouses wanting to do it if at all possible. We don't hear her words here, but I hope your W understands the depth of your pain. The thought that you would kill yourself is so sad. She also needs to know and really understand the level of your detachment and anger. Again, you will find many instances on this site where one spouse is drowning and screaming for help and the other spouse doesn't hear or see a thing until an affair happens or somebody walks.

As I see now you have put great effort into looking at yourself and your role. Please give your W the time to do the same. Almost losing you may have been an eye opener to her.

I think the docs at this site can come up with a recovery plan you both agree to, even feel enthusiastic about. Wouldn't it be great if you could both approach this recovery with a solid, known plan?

I wish you the best dj62, and no lashes intended,would much rather provide a gentle verbal hug. Sorry I did not understand.

IS

<small>[ August 20, 2002, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: InShock ]</small>

Well the saga goes on. I went to see my counselor this last week, surprised her alot, when I told her that we were putting the "d" on hold, told her about my wifes 180. She was surprised btw because the last time I saw her my mind was made up and final on D. We W, kids, and I went camping this weekend, W is going right back to her old tricks. Damn near got into a verbal fight in front of the kids, she bailed and went to bed when we put the little ones to bed, played helpless when we were packing up, same sort of distancing and **** she pulled before I decided to file. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and say piss on it. She has Dr. Appt tomorrow, maybe we'll find out shes out of whack chemicaly, I don't know. I gave her a business card for a marriage counselor that my counselor recomended when I asked her, she was supposed to make us an appointment, when I asked her when our appointment was she said she didn't make one because she didn't know when I wanted it. I told her that I didn't care when it was I would get the time off, I have a very good beny package where I work and would have no problem getting the time. She was supposed to make the appoint next day, when I asked " she won't be in until the 30th., so it won't make any differance. My counselor says I have to let her make the appoint. but what am I suposed to do until she does? She needs to make it since she refused to go before.
Btw I did tell my counselor about this site so she can check it out and use it as a tool possibly. And I did not go with her for my marriage counseling because I would not be comfortable with her as our counselor, and she felt much the same.
Thanks for letting me vent
DJ

DJ62;
I know what its like to be in a bad marriage. I am on my third and have seven children.
I wish that you could just "watch a movie" of what life would be like if you got a divorce and remarried and if you not just stuck it out-but really tried to love your wife like yourself.
I know this sounds hypocritical of me because I bailed twice. One was a very short term marriage because of physical abuse.
What is hard to see now is that every marriage has problems , communication, addictions etc.
The one thing I hope that you realize is that it took a long time to create the problems and will take awhile to correct them.
Your wife has most likely developed alot of resentments about your addictions coming first and then when you get better, often a spouse feels left out of the recovery process and even jealouse of time and involvment with a 12 step program. This isn't right,but it happens alot.
Then you hook up with another woman(friend or not) and she feels betrayed again.
I know that the 12 step programs promote taking care of yourself, but that doesn,t mean turning your back on the poeple who have been hurt by you in the past.
If someone from a group needed your help ,would you help? Try to think of your wife that way and not the enemy too. Often, a person living with an addict of any kind ends up more more hurt and messed up than the addict because they have had so much betrayal and confusion and no control.
No matter what anyone says, you can't detatch yourself completely from your spouse and their addiction. You love them, you watch them destroy trust finances etc..
This other friend didn't live that with you. She probably seemed like a savior or something. She got emotionally involved with a married man and distracted him from his marriage. This doesn't sound like a very good friend. How would she react after a few years of your gambling and so on. You'd have to find another friend???
I am not trying to put you down.
It just doesn't seem fair that one woman stays through alot of heartache and then you straighten up and think all those years shouldn't have affected her at all and you want to bail out on her now because shes got some problems here.
Like I said earlier, it took years to get where you are together,keep the commitment and take THE TIME to staighten it out.

dj - you have not fallen in love with this woman with a true heart. It is fog, you have fallen with sin in your heart, and look at what God is seeing. Your wife and you have children, history, you made vows, but maybe you don't believe in vows either. Just like my stbx, says vows meant nothing to him. So his next wife (if he can get one) I will tell her, better not look at a committment with him, vows mean nothing to him. Will show where my stbx posted here on MB for months about vows meaning nothing at all.

Look at what you have created. Look at your children deeply in their eyes. You are missing a great opportunity to get our marriage back together. WHy did you marry her in the first place, it was love, true love. Now you can turn a switch to off and not love her, but love someone else out of sin and lies. You are a fallen person, and you need to look at yourself, and look at God, and ask God to help you.

DJ62

You don't say exactly if your gambling triggered her coldness, per se, or just the binge gambling. Was this marriage in trouble BEFORE your gambling problem?

If so, then the only recourse is joint counselling, as you 2 seem to be at an impasse. I agree with everyone else that the friend had to go. In hindsight, you will see that this was a R only out of need. Alternately, you have to realise that your W needs special attention from you now, as she needs all the reassurance she can get, not just "business as usual" approach to the M. A lot of men don't see this. (including me)

Make your W see that the EA/PA with old GF was wrong, and a huge mistake on your part. Explain to her that it was a friendship that got out of hand. Be prepared to GIVE & watch the returns.

Lots of luck to you both, it ain't over.
Muzohead