Haven't posted in nearly a year, I think. I'm the WS who got his act together for his W a couple months too late for her. I moved to take a job out of state, thinking my wife and kids would come too. She filed for divorce in August last year.

I'm totally against this divorce, so I'm an unwilling participant in the settlement discussions. I know I was wrong to do what I did; I see every day what I've done to my family and I deeply regret. I also think that the divorce is an extreme reaction; we've been married 12 years.

In the beginning, I decided to fight, to try to slow down the process and get her to turn around, but it didn't work. In January, we discussed some settlement terms, at which time I restated my concerns about divorce and the effects (2 kids, us, etc.). One of the key concerns we both agreed to have put in the settlement was that we didn't want to expose our kids to a revolving door of boyfriends/girlfriends. Thus, no sleepovers and no frequent contact of men/women with kids.

In the past few weeks, it appears she has a boyfriend. I called to talk with her about it a couple of weeks ago, to let her know -- as the other parent -- that I wasn't comfortable with it. Her reply was, "well, I am." She also asked what kind of a person she thought I was, for her to have a boyfriend.

Now it seems he's over nearly every day. We're still married.

I see parallels to what I did as a WS to what she's doing now. The pain I feel in my heart knowing she's with someone else. No concern for anything but her needs, won't listen to reason or logic, or anyone. Takes time from her kids to have her needs met. No concern for moral values or the effect on the kids. Does what she pleases when she pleases. Hides the truth.

Now I'm not stupid. I know that we'll be seeing the people. I'm more concerned with our kids being put in the middle, of them losing time with their mom, who's paying attention to some other man.

I still love her and I still care very much about her, despite the past year and the distance she's put between us.

I plan to talk with her again, to let her know that -- as a co-parent -- I'm uncomfortable about her having him over all of the time, putting the kids in the middle, taking time away from the kids, etc., but not making it about her and what she's doing, although I don't like it and I wish she'd have an epiphany, realize what she's doing and want to work on the marriage again.

Any thoughts? Replies?

This is the fallout and consequences of sin. I'm sure that you had no idea how many lives would be affected when you were unfaithful. Perhaps had you been faithful, your wife wouldn't be this way now. So not only did your actions hurt her, but threw her into the behavior herself.Behaviors that she may regret and answer for later in life
And your children will grow up without both of you together and that will influence their lives and so on...
I do detect a little bit of self rightiousness in you.
Do you feel that you had more reason to cheat than she does now??
What comes around, goes around.Sometimes we learn to late-wisdom.

b13,

I also think that the divorce is an extreme reaction;

B, as a BS, this was my first reaction to WH's A's The hurt, no the gut renching anquish that I experienced was worse than ANYTHING I had ever experienced.

Who can say what she is feeling right now. Revenge? Even on a subconcious level. Could it be that she's just had enough and doesn't feel that the two of you could ever have something?

I plan to talk with her again, to let her know that -- as a co-parent -- I'm uncomfortable about her having him over all of the time, putting the kids in the middle, taking time away from the kids, etc., but not making it about her and what she's doing, although I don't like it and I wish she'd have an epiphany, realize what she's doing and want to work on the marriage again

Are you plan A'g your stbxw? What was your contribution to the problems of your m? Have you addressed these? With yourself if that's all who will participate.

It sounds to me that you are saying you are concerned about the kids (and that sounds sincere) but it also sounds like you are saying it is the kids when I think it is you who are having the biggest problem with this but saying it's the kids. (Did that make sense?)

Now it seems he's over nearly every day. We're still married.

My Dad used to say 2 rights don't make a wrong. No, it's not right, you two are still married, period. That means married till the Dv is final. What ever her reasons it is still not the right thing to do.

I plan to talk with her again, to let her know that -- as a co-parent -- I'm uncomfortable about her having him over all of the time, putting the kids in the middle, taking time away from the kids, etc., but not making it about her and what she's doing

Just watch the disrespectful judgements. I am not sure she will recieve what you have to say with an open mind. I recently read a book "difficult conversations" that was excellent. Got it at B&N on the sale rack.

God bless,

D.

<small>[ August 24, 2002, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

Didn't mean to sound self-righteous. I don't feel I had any more reason to cheat than her.

I guess what bothers me the most is, remembering what I was doing during A, all of my attention was focused on the OW. And I fear that my kids won't get the attention they need from mom because mom is focusing on someone else.

I did talk with her about it. I did say I was concerned, for all of the reasons I mentioned, and she said something like, if it were you instead of him, you wouldn't be saying these things. Well, yeah!

To answer WillGetThruThis, I'm getting through and dealing with the problems I contributed to my M. My wife believes it was all my fault, that the marriage was horrible, and that I was controlling. When I asked her to help me understand the controlling part, so I could work on it and reflect on it, she said it wasn't her responsibility.

As for the "two wrongs," she believes that a piece of paper says we're married, and nothing more.

I'm worried about the kids getting hurt, that this guy is just a temporary person and he'll go away. And I worry she'll get hurt, too. And after what I've done, I don't want her to go through the pain again. I care about her; I love her. I love my kids. And I don't want them getting hurt. So I explain to her my feelings as a parent, and as her partner, though she doesn't see it that way.

b,
Plan A is probably the best way to go. Anything you try to do to stop her will only drive her closer to this new guy. She has probably entered her own fog, alot of people do, that one of the reason's for the even higher failure rates for second marriages.

Is there any way you can take more time with the kids and keep them out of the situation???

boheme 13:

I agree that the roles have been reversed now, and your estranged wife's behaviour is typical WS. This is a knee-jerk reaction from her, and she feels NO accountability to anyone. Morality does not exist. You have to see that you have helped destroy her moral foundation. That having been said, the road ahead is difficult.

I disagree that a PLAN A is the best route to follow. These things usually have a way of working out by themselves. Minimum intervention on your part is best. You should consider moving back to where you can be closer to the kids, to have a positive effect on their lives. This is where you can play an important stabilising role in their lives. Kids adapt easily, and believe me, they know right from wrong, even when adults are doing it. Have faith in them.

I feel for your wife, who is obviousy still hurting, and trying to deal with it bravely. The fact that she is seeing this guy while still married, is to repay you. If you DO speak to her, tell her you can now see how she must have felt during your A. Just be open & honest, tell her the truth. Avoid discussing her BF, except to say how you feel, and leave it at that. She will feel you are attempting to control her, and this will push her away.

You should really be closer for the kids' sake.

Good luck
Muzohead

I feel for your wife, who is obviousy still hurting, and trying to deal with it bravely. The fact that she is seeing this guy while still married, is to repay you. If you DO speak to her, tell her you can now see how she must have felt during your A. Just be open & honest, tell her the truth. Avoid discussing her BF, except to say how you feel, and leave it at that. She will feel you are attempting to control her, and this will push her away.

It seems to me she's still angry by the minimal contact she has with me on the phone and the tone of her voice when she does talk. However, she doesn't/hasn't wanted to deal with it, and that makes it difficult, both to co-parent and to maintain a friendship and offer her support.

I fear that telling her that I see how she felt during my A will spark a confrontation about how this doesn't have any relation to my A, and nor is it an A for her.

And I don't discuss the BF, except in the context of the effect on the kids.

In revising our marital history, she seems to believe now that I've always controlled her, which puts me in a situation of defending myself against something I didn't know existed. She refuses to give me examples or times when I did, so I don't know how to respond to that. Is this some kind of function of BPD?

And knowing her, she tends to see things in black and white only. I think I'm being perceived as a enemy to be dealt with, not a friend (and now) or husband.

You should consider moving back to where you can be closer to the kids, to have a positive effect on their lives. This is where you can play an important stabilising role in their lives.

I want to do that, and I will. The trouble is, it won't be until this time next year, and that's really bothering me. I can see the time -- and opportunities -- slipping away.

I'm working on getting back, but there are a couple of obstacles, and I've been trying to solve them for a year now. First, the money I make pays for the house they live in and keeps them fed and healthy. If I quit my job, there'd be major problems. Perhaps that's not my problem now, but I think it is.

Second, my current job is a second-shift job, which means I don't get to see my kids off to school or pick them up in the afternoon.

Third, I'm in graduate school, learning a new profession so I can be available to my kids day and night, and to help my wife, too. I probably would be correct in guessing that much of her anger is about my leaving her with more responsibilities than she deserves. Things I should be doing as a father and husband.

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

boheme13-

This is a tough one.

I don't know how old your children are, but the key thing is to keep the lines of communication open between yo uand them, so that they feel comfortable talking to you about what goes on at their mom's house. Just in case anything goes on that makes them feel uncomfortable - you need to know.

Especially with new boyfriends and girlfriends - abuse does occur in some of those situations.

If you have any real cause for concern, then you should check your settlement and see if you have any recourse.

Maybe there is someone whom your wife trusts - like a parent or friend, who can ask her to be discreet.

Other than that, there is not much else you can do, because face it, she's not going to listen to you on this subject. So you need to redirect your energies to the areas where it can be effective.
Make sure that the kids feel safe and secure in your home. Take the kids whenever you can.

If you really get ticked, then go to Plan B and make her pay for her own house - why should you have to bankrole her swining singles lifestyle?

If you're not ready for a divorce, then Plan A - and eventually you will lose enough love units to go to Plan B or divorce.

K

I don't know how old your children are, but the key thing is to keep the lines of communication open between yo uand them, so that they feel comfortable talking to you about what goes on at their mom's house. Just in case anything goes on that makes them feel uncomfortable - you need to know.

Mine are 4 and 7. The oldest is a little freaked about the hand-holding and kissing. I mentioned that my W, who tried to draw a parallel to her remarrying (as in, what do you think is going to happen when I remarry?) When I talk with her, I'm not too quick at analyzing and responding; I tend to take time to digest the conversation. SO, I didn't realize until this morning that I shouldn't have accepted the response; probably should have replied that she's not remarried, and that this guy is not a stepfather. So, I'm hearing that they're a little disturbed by what's going on, and it's falling on deaf ears.

I hit the wrong button!

If you have any real cause for concern, then you should check your settlement and see if you have any recourse.

Settlement agreement isn't done, nor do we have a separation agreement. If I had settled at the beginning of the year, I'd have lost my shirt. But I also lost the opportunity to take care of just such a situation with the BF. I wonder if you'd mind sharing your situation with me; I don't have custody of the kids, but would like lots more time with them.

Maybe there is someone whom your wife trusts - like a parent or friend, who can ask her to be discreet.


My parents won't get involved. Her parents won't get involved, but they'll give her advice. Go figure. Her parents seem opposed to divorce, but won't get involved to help us. It's discouraging that lots of people have experience to draw upon and share, but no one wants to.

If you really get ticked, then go to Plan B and make her pay for her own house - why should you have to bankrole her swining singles lifestyle?

I wanted the kids to have a safe home, but I've been reconsidering because of financial outcomes in regard to a possible settlement. I wanted to negotiate a situation in which I could declare part of the mortgage on my income taxes, but it doesn't seem to be working. Plus, she can't afford the home on her own and my income will be going down next year, when I'm back there. The new job I want pays a little more than half of my current one, but it puts me close to my kids, and her.

If you're not ready for a divorce, then Plan A - and eventually you will lose enough love units to go to Plan B or divorce.

No matter what she does, I can't seem to get into the negative, and I can't seem to love her less. That's what hurts me, I guess. We've been together 13-14 years, and I can't put that aside.

B13:

I understand your conflict- I resolved not to fight for custody, since it would merely have been a financial drain. Fortunately, my ex has no problem with access to the kids whenever I want. Your financial concerns are typical, and I don't envy the choices you face in terms of proximity, and maintaining financial provision for them.

I was also married for 14 yrs, and very much still felt TONS for my ex, even though I lived through 2 PA's & 1 EA in 2yrs. You have to realise at a certain point, though, that effort on your part to show this love is just part of your punishment. My advice is to hide this love for her, and be tough about everything. You can now stop paying for your sins. Get over the guilt, and start acting righteously. You have a right to. It is possible to be gentle & firm at the same time. Does your W work? Have you taken her off your medical insurance yet? Do you charge her rent? Think about it, pal. Tough love is the way to go. Take charge. Your kids now have 1 parent.(for the time being, anyway)

I repeat again that Plan A won't work. Some folks think Plan B is nasty, or hard-core. Not so. It simply means the BS stops HERE! Withdraw from your W. Also, if you read the concepts carefully, you will see that Plan A is ONLY recommended when certain conditions are met. If you try to be too nice, you will encourage her & validate her "revenge", and feed her anger by indulging in guilt. You should try to act is if her behaviour doesn't bother you, and make it clear that you have a life. Be pleasant, but immovable on certain issues.

If you still have some kind of wish to get her back, then you have to behave as if you've already given up. (go figure)My thoughts on the matter are that there's a 50/50 chance of her snapping out of her current midset. Don't bank on it happening anytime soon, and don't be her unwitting accomplice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No matter what she does, I can't seem to get into the negative, and I can't seem to love her less. That's what hurts me, I guess. We've been together 13-14 years, and I can't put that aside.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've got to get this under control to be effective. You may feel any way you like, but you have to act with conviction & resolve. Your W will perceive you as a wimp if you don't. This will not help your chances.

Good luck with the job & relocation
Muzohead

muzohead,

Frankly, I hadn't thought about charging her rent. She works, but she's underemployed (college degree, working at a low-level bank job/hourly wage) and there's no way she can afford the house on her salary alone.

I don't know if I could do it now, and it's a conflict for me: If I withhold money, it hurts the kids. She assumes the house is hers; changed the deadbolt, etc. I've also established a consistent record of paying child support, although we have no settlement agreement or separation agreement.

So, I fear if I stop or alter payments, it will hurt me in court.

My concerns in the settlement are about shared custody, and I have no idea what she wants to do about that. She hasn't said (we're supposed to talk about it Thursday; I want to find out what she wants) and I fear that by letting her know all of my thoughts about the settlement, that it will be used to my disadvantage. She seems confident she'll win residential custody; I'd like revolving custody, so I feel like a father, not Dad who picks up the slack, the weekends and holidays guy.

Even before the BF came up, I'd been thinking that it didn't seem right for her to just take -- the house, kids, etc. And that she feels few of the consequences of the divorce because she still safe in her home, still has the kids all of the time.

The other fear: That by forcing the sale of the home, she'll get angry and not agree to some of the concepts in the agreement about which we've already agreed to orally but not put on paper. And that she'll use the kids -- limiting their time with me as far as visitation -- because I'm forcing her to leave the house.

I understand about the tough love; it's tough on me, too, but I understand the concept. It cuts off the things she needs to justify her anger and resentment.

I'm not looking for an instant change in her feelings toward me, that she'll suddenly understand and decide to work on it. I want to begin setting the stage for a new marriage, doing it slowly but letting her know, too, that I want to be there for her.

Does that make sense?

I also feel I have an obligation -- as the other parent -- to tell her I'm uncomfortable with the BF being around the kids, over at the house three-four days a week.

ok - Well I could be way off base here but I am reading this thinking what the heck - I mean you are the one who cheated - I don't know the details but I know what that does to a person and their life. It throws us into a tailspin and we don't know which way is up. You know you may have got your act together and most people wish for that - I wished for that only it isn't happening - but I don't understand how you can compare her to having a boyfriend to you having an affair - She filed for divorce last August - she has made a choice - and I am sure that wasn't easy for her but you are the one that cheated - you are the one that betrayed their vows. I think that if she is just finally getting a boyfriend after all of this time then she must really be over you and now willing to go on and make a life for herself. I don't think you can say that she is neglecting her kids because she is happy - you live a different state - you may pay all of the bills - but you are not there. I don't see how you can compare - her and her boyfriend to you and your affair - She has made a decision to end the marriage - you only betrayed it - ok I don't know I am sorry for sounding so harsh - but his just rubbed me the wrong way.

Yes, I betrayed her. Yes, I left. Yes, I regret it. I can't deny any of that. I did the things I did through a fog, haze, whatever you want to describe it as, but all along I knew I couldn't leave my wife, because deep inside I love her and as hard as I tried to deny it, I couldn't. But I couldn't break away either; I love my wife for who she is, everything about her. I couldn't do that to our kids.

I'm grateful she gave me time and fought to keep our marriage together when I was too dumb from my A to think straight. She fought hard; she gave me every statistic and reason for not divorcing she could find. And so I feel betrayed because, knowing all that she knows -- and she made herself an expert to keep me with her and the kids, married -- she chooses to ignore it now.

When I left the state, we were working on rebuilding our marriage; I came here to take a job that put is within minutes of her parents, hours of mine, instead of days. To have a closer family connection and support, instead of being isolated and alone. But I left. You and everyone else points that out to me; my lawyer points that out to me, my friends point that out to me, and they all say I have to go back there, and I will. I'm reminded of what I've lost every day; I don't have my wife to talk to during the day, I don't have my kids to wake me up in the morning.

It's not as simple as it sounds, and it's too complex to write. And without her here to contribute, it's an incomplete account, just my side. I try to be objective, I try to be accountable for what I do and have done and I try to be accuate and as impartial as I can be in reporting to you, maw64, and others who read these posts what I feel and what I see and hear.

I think one of the objectives of this post was to write out my thoughts instead of keeping them bottled up (vent).

The other is to say, the way I feel now, the anxiety, the hurt, the anger, the frustration, the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach and the thousand tiny cuts to your heart -- I know what I put her through by betraying her, what she felt to love someone deeply and trust them and have them tear your life apart by meeting someone else when you thought you were companions.

But I also have to ask: Why invest time and years into something that gets thrown away. Do we ever really get over each other? And why does it have to be that way?

Isn't there a way back, especially when there are kids involved, so we don't tear their lives up totally, confuse them about who mom's seeing or who dad's seeing, putting them in the middle and making them make choices about things they wouldn't have had to do had their parents determined that they would get through it, no matter what. And that's what she said to me: No matter what.

I don't mind reading posts that differ from my opinions and thoughts. That's how we learn and make decisions. For me though, knowing her for 12 years and for fighting for me to get over the A and get back to my family, I don't think I'm fighting a hopeless battle. I don't believe she wanted to do this, break up the family, and I don't believe she wants to do it now. I've known her for about 14 years, and I love being with her and around her. She's fun, and we've had a lot of experiences, good ones as well as bad.

That's what we do in marriage, don't we? We take the good with the bad, we adjust to each other's moods and changing beliefs through the years. We shouldn't just give up and cast people off.

I don't believe in divorce unless your H or W has substance abuse problems or there's physical abuse. And I think what's happening now is an expression of control, of some misinterpreted therapy and anger because I wasn't ready when she wanted me to be.

I hope I haven't put everyone off with this reply.
And I hope there's a way back, and I'll continue to hope that until I believe there isn't.

Boheme13:

I understand MAW64's viewpoint, and don't necessarily agree:

MAW64:
Which is worse? Stealing, or lying?
Murder, or incest..
Rape, or child abuse..
Physical, or emotional abuse...

Point I'm trying to make is: sexual infidelity is such a visible form of breaking trust or vows wothin the sanctity of marriage that it grabs all the headlines, and gets all the publicity, while all the subtler forms of disrespect & abuse go unnoticed, and can always somehow be justified.

There are various forms of infidelity within a marriage, which contribute to the overall breakdown, and the sexual infidel is left as the convicted felon(for life) of the heinous crime. Let me make it clear that I in NO WAY minimise the pain, hurt & suffering caused by sexual infidelity. I have experienced it 1st-hand, as many on this forum have. Are we now saying, that once convicted, anyone, no matter how repentant, is now "ex-communicated" from the overly righteous BS club?

What part did WE play in ensuring that WE weren't the ones that strayed? Can we be so confident that in a moment's weakness, the proverbial "there, but for the grace of God go I..." should not apply? This is moral high ground in it's extreme. Like you, I don't want to come across as being harsh, but I need to encourage BOHEME13 for having the courage to come to this forum. It is the very LACK of this kind of courage on the part of many a WS that undermines any attempt on OUR (BS) parts to reconcile with our estranged & guilt-ridden WS'.(IMHO).

I feel his hurt as if it were my own, for I still feel the pain my ex must feel, when she must, as all of us must, face herself alone in the dark at the end of the day, with the thoughts of would'a could'a should'a, along with isolation & lack of forgiveness by society.

This is parallel to the feelings of the father who reverses over his own son in the driveway, or the mother whose child drowns in the pool, while on the phone to her best friend. For how long should the guilty be punished? Can we say that we share the burden of guilt they have to bear?

Sorry, I ve gone on a bit (I'm into forgiveness).
MAW64, this is not me having a go at you, just supporting BOHEME13. I'm currently in the position of being emotional support to me ex, who has finally realised that BF is full of B**S***T, ( BF is living with his GF of 3yrs + 3 kids). BF also picked up ex at my front door while still married, and trying to make it work. I mention this in case you don't think I have perspective.

BOHEME:
Just go on as you have on a quiet & positive manner, and best of luck to you. If you want her back, you may have to be patient while she sees the current R with BF through. Tough stuff, but it's what she did for you. It's natural to want the other partner to feel the same pain. It's that, or it's over.

Good luck
Muzohead

You may have to accept that you threw away the best thing you had to have an affair. Harsh, yup but true. My h was like you and when the dust settled he wanted back in. Nope, sorry, I fought for the marriage(like your wife), gave him chance after chance(like your wife) and ever reason in the book not to leave(like your wife). In the end his A won out and by that time his treatment of me killed my love and blew up the love bank.

This may very well be where your wife is now and if so well hate to say so but "too bad".

She tried and you didn't, you lived in your fog and probably destroyed her love for you. Don't judge her now, she's divorcing you, you betrayed her while still in the thick of the marriage. Acting all betrayed now is too little too late.

Back off and see if she comes around, she may but don't be overly surprised if the A and fog damaged her feelings for you permenantly.

<small>[ August 27, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</small>

Ok - Ok I am sorry I didn't mean to sound self rightous I mean everyone makes mistakes but the point I was trying to make was that I didn't see the comparison to her having a boyfriend and you having an affair. OK - I mean like I said I don't know the details and you have every right to vent because believe me I know what you are feeling but maybe she is afraid to trust you again?? Maybe she needs to be with someone else to see if that is what she wants or who knows she may decide she doesn't want him and she wants to give you another shot at your family... The point that got me was that you don't want her boyfriend around the kids or that you think that she is neglecting the kids in favor of her happiness... I mean I don't have any answers - I am getting a divorce I would take my husband back in a second probably if he showed any real effort to fix anything - but he says that I will never trust him again - and you know I don't know if I will but I also haven't been given the chance. I just don't think you should tell her what to do I am sure she has the best interest of her children and if you and her were meant to be then you will be together but you are going to push her further away comparing her boyfriend to your affair - I hope I didn't offend anyone Boheme 13 and Muzohead(nice name by the way) - OK - Like I said I wish my husband wanted to give it a go - but he just wants to go off in his own little world and hibernate away from the guilt of what he did... Good Luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

Reaing your posts struck a nerve in me. I am a BS. I still smart after my 2 yr D-Day that my exH never wants to broach the subject of his infidelity. Instead, he wants to meet after that lovely occasion (meaning to me: it's water under the bridge, let's move on")

You strike me as a person who doesn't want to delve deep unless you get something out of it. Hearing about your wife's reaction, I think she seems pretty clear about where she is going.

She is continuing on with her life, being with people who might connect with her. If anything, that is good.

And, why should you be so worried about your kids now when you weren't when having an affair earlier? Seems rather double-standardish to me.

Maybe you need to face up to the reality that there are reactions to behaviors. She may not have envisioned herself with another romantic person in her life until she found out how you had one.

I am sorry that I am not sympathetic to you, but your posts reek (sp?) of having no clue of how you affected her life, instead they seem like you continue to believe you are the one who deserves respect when you don't give it to others.

And by the way, are you still seeing the one who was involved with you during your marriage?

29Palms: (interesting, your adress, or favorite Psalm?)

With respect for the hurt & pain you suffered:

Your post reeks (sic) of that same hurt & pain, and seems directed more at exH than Boheme13. It is clear (to me at least) from his posts, that he is repentant, and out of his fog, and realises the damage that he has caused. It is also clear to me that his primary concern is for the environment his kids is exposed to, not his own dignity or respect from his W.
...and WHY does he not have a right to be concerned for the kids now? Sc**w double-standards! Are you saying that because of an infidelity he is now a moral degenerate? Does the fact that the W suffered through the H's A now excuse her from any kind of moral standard?

Just to clear things up, I am BS. exW indulged in complete avoidance of parental responsibility when in her A's. Last BF used to pick her up in front of my door. I suffered as much as anybody here on this forum because of sexual infidelity and it's own unique flavour of pain & humiliation.

BOHEME13:
I hope your silence does not mean that you have effectively been "punished" off this forum. Also, you obviously now have some insight into the kind of pain your W had to endure. ( I would have thought this was obvious, but I mention it for the sake of others).

Don't give up, and don't become cynical. Best of luck.
Muzohead