Yes... I am angry.

Related to Nudism... and young children and Nudism & Kids... II!

I did leave court feeling I had accomplished all I set out to do.

The judge thoroughly chastised my xW, the OM who tagged along, and even my xW's attorney.

The judge said that the bedroom door (xW's and OM's) must be closed... my xW made a point in describing the "openness" in the household... nudism-wise. The judge didn't buy it... and kept on talking about propriety, even as her attorney made a stand to defend nudism!

The judge made it clear to the OM... he was not be anywhere near "butt naked" (her words) in front of the kids...
...xW's lawyer then asked (@ss that he was)... "would it make a difference if they were married?"...
...the judge gave a cold, terse "NO"... and further added... that to my kids... the OM is a "stranger"!

The judge virtually ridiculed the "master's thesis" write-up (11 years old) my xW included in her rational for "social nudism" as being the key to "self-esteem". The judge said... if my xW wishes to appeal... that next time she is to bring many expert witnesses... and that it will cost her lots... (adding that she will pay for the court costs... "with many zeros... at the end of it").

Everything and I mean everything... was complete chastisement of my xW... the OM... and her lawyer!

I asked for 3 items (4 if you include her pating my legal fees)...
1. not being allowed to take the kids to any nudist camp
2. not allowing anybody to practice nudism in the presence of my kids
3. not allowing my xW to practice nudism in front of my kids

When I left the courthouse...
...I thought all three... were granted me...
...I was euphoric... (net the attorney's fees I had to pay)

Then...
...when xW came to pick of the kids (and I, first telling them... no nudism on points 1 through 3)...
...my stepson went out to talk to his mom (xW)...
...and when he came back... he said... she DID win the right to practice nudism in front of the kids (point #3)!... I still believe I won points #1 & #2... but have to verify this when the written ruling comes out.

I was floored!
It's not at all what I heard in court...
...and so I quickly called my attorney on the cell phone...
...and with a pregnant pause in excess of 45 seconds of speechlessness...
...my attorney said... it was true... she could practice nudism in the home... in front of my kids!

I'm angry... I'm upset... I'm flabbergasted!

I've already asked my attorney (perhaps former attorney) for the write-up on the ruling... due in a few days...
...and the FULL transcript of the court hearing!

Tomorrow, I'll write to virtually every psychologist in the state...
...and find ones that back "modesty, purity, morality, and COMMON SENSE"... ...as part of their therapy...
...and true 'full' propriety (if not based on basic morals... what is this based on?!)

I'll find some proper, current and relevant research papers...

I'll get the cannon lawyer (friend of a friend) to spell out in plain English the church's teaching on social nudism...

I'll get the most aggressive attorney in the state...

...and appeal.

If it takes me to bankruptcy... so be it.

God is my God... money is not my God.

Heaven help my children!
Your prayers help so much my friends...
...but evil sometimes still prevails... for a time!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

<small>[ August 31, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: NSR ]</small>

so sorry

Jim,
I read your first post earlier today and was hoping for the best for you.
I am so sorry about the way the hearing turned out. I know your that kids and their moral and spiritual upbringing is extremely important to you.
What is the real ruling on the other counts? - his nudism and the nudists camp? I hope there is better news there.
You will all be in my prayers.
God Bless.

((((((((((Jim))))))))))

No words...

Jim, I may be able to help - lots of conservative attorney and political group contacts.

Email me bramblerose_mb@yahoo.com ASAP.

Dumb question here, how could the judgement be changed without you having knowledge? Where is it in writing and how could you have been misled so badly? What is your lawyer looking at?

My mind is racing but I know you need our support and not my anger (unless it helps).

Pulling for you way out here on the west coast.

L.

Whoa, I am speechless.
So, was the judge saying it was ok for her to be nude in front of the kids but not anyone else?

I can only imagine the turmoil you are in.....

Keep it up. You are the rock for your kids. Stand tall and firm.

We are praying and I am now...Put on God's armor and fight the good fight.

Pray for them too, they are sick and not probably in their right mind.

Almost reminds me of the guy who filed the lawsuit in CA about the "under God" thing..He claims he did it for his daughter. He is D'd, his XW is a faithful Christian and his daughter who he claims to be "fighting" for is also a Christian and goes to church w/her mom. That guy was one wacked out athiest..

Your children know you are doing all you can do. I am with you and so are all of us. God bless you ((((())))))). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

OK Jim,

Did I miss something or did you leave something out?

How in the Hell did this situation get turned around to favor her?

Everything sounded good and then.... BAAM.

Cripes Katey, I lock the door when I take a shower, hit the bathroom [#1 or #2] or change clothes. My kids [21 and 17] or G's kids [10 and 7] don't need to see an old man's saggy body. Yeah, this is what your'e going to look like in XX years. Poop, that would scare the hell out of me from growing older.

[Alright, so I'm not so saggy yet, but, I will be one day] You get the point. I'd be pissed too.

Still wishing you the Best.

I'm reading that the ONLY ruling in favour of your XW is that ONLY SHE can practice nudism in front of the kids. Am I right?

If that's the case... then what's the huge dilemna? If the kids are okay with it, then you should try to let it go NSR. I'm sorry if I'm sounding too harsh here... but as a mother (of 4 boys), it isn't uncommon that they see me 'nude'. Yes, I know, my boys are quite young still, and that could be why I have a difference of opinion.

I totally agree that your children should NOT be subjected to seeing the OM (or any other "stranger") nude. To me, that's simple logic. However, why is it so horrible that they see their own mum that way?

I am curious though.... what do the KIDS want? Do they care if they are exposed to your xW's nudism? (because if it does bother them, then it is downright selfish and irresponsible of your xW to insist that they be exposed to it).

Like any MB concept... please try to calm down some before making any rash decisions based on emotions. The high road is the best road to take. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care, and I do hope that this is all settled soon.

Karen

I'll clarify.

I believed that I had won all three parts of the motion:
1. her not being allowed to take the kids to any nudist camp
2. not allowing anybody (OM or anybody) to practice nudism in the presence of my kids
3. not allowing my xW to practice nudism in front of my kids

After speaking with my attorney...
I did lose #3!
I actually still believe I won #1 and #2...
... (I believe 'yes' to cleo's question)
... but I will be convinced of it... when I get the 'written' ruling.

In New Jersey, the judges official ruling (written) comes out a few days after the hearing. That is supposed to change September 1, 2002 (where the written ruling has to come out immediately at the end of the hearing).

As I've said earlier...
...I've asked my attorney for both the "written ruling" (be available some time next week) and the full transcript (may take longer)!

..."then what's the huge dilemna?"...
...no my children aren't OK with it!...
...and the only way for the judge to find out, what my children's feelings are, is by questioning them in court.

It's one thing to see your mom in the nude when she comes out of the shower...
...(when xW was with me... she ALWAYS wore a towel)!... a long towel...
...it's another to have "tickle fights" with her and the OM... while she's in the nude... (xW has always been into "physical" touching...)
...it's another to see... hear... the bedroom activity of OM and xW... as she has admitted (in court) to leaving the bedroom door always open...
...it's another to have the OM(dressed) show physical affection to their mom(undressed) in front of the kids!

It's wrong.

This "self esteem" building bull... from "social nudity"... is ????!

I am going to take it slow...

...yes BrambleRose, I'll be getting in touch with you.

I'll get the "written" ruling soon...
...full transcripts as well...

...making all the contacts I can...

...and I know right now... it will be a long painful and expensive process...

...but my responsibility as the spiritual head of my family... will not be abandoned.

Thanks for everyone's concern.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jim/NSR

<small>[ August 31, 2002, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: NSR ]</small>

Is there some way the Department of Children's Services, Human Services, whatever, in your state would consider x constantly exposing adolescent, preadolescent children to her nudity to be psychological abuse?

Have they seen psychological professionsal and expressed this opinion to someone who is an "expert witness"? Could they file a request to have their mother not do this- and the court consider their request?

A child advocate might be an ally.

And I would have thought this was covered somewhere in the judge's ruling.

I'm shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NSR -

The legal system - as an attorney sometimes I cringe when it doesn't yield the result it should.

You're doing all the right things it sounds.

Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me that the judge allowed your wife to practice nudism in her own home in front of the kids.

Allowing people to do whatever they want in their home is a very protected right byt the courts.

However, I don't think that activities that contribute to the delinquency of a minor should be allowed anywhere.

Its a legal mess to be sure, but I wish you all the success and want to support your decision to stand your ground.

Maybe you'll make new law or have a higher standard set for others.

Keep fighting for what's right! K

Your ex is totally wrong. The idea that she and the boyfriend have an open door while they're banging on the bed is abusive and seductive. Abusive because the man their mom is in bed with is as the judge said "a stranger" Seductive because even if they go by what the judge said and lock the door, the kids still know that something erotic is going on between their mom and the new stud.

It would be a totally different story if nudism were practiced everywhere in our society as it is in some cultures. Likewise if you and she were still together and married and they heard lovemaking sounds coming from your bedroom.

What she is doing is rubbing this in the kids' faces.

I'm so sorry NSR. Your ex is crazy,.

And this is from a former practicing nudist, who has seen healthy nudism practiced with families in a park setting. There's a huge difference between a bona fide family and the "fake" family your ex is trying to pretend that they are.

Jim...

Had been away and just saw your recap of the ruling. I'm so sorry that you have to still continue to fight this battle with your XW.

After all this time we were all hopeful that you would not still be in this type of fire fight and would have been successful on all three points with the Judge.

You must be feeling like your burden is getting heavier and heavier and at times need to be reminded that we never are given more than we can handle.

But in true form your tenacity and focus are so strong that you will see this through. Someday, your children will understand just how lucky they really are that you are in their lives.

Do you keep reminding yourself that your attorneys and conselors are supposed to be in there for you and to help you?

Self-care is important...best to you and success for your next round with attorneys and judges on this difficult matter.

mr r

Jim,
You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

Bob