Like a few others on this board, I'm now in the midst of the property/costody and child support battle with my ExH.

He is ruthless and selfish - as most of you know, but somehow manages to look like an angel to everyone else. And even family members who know that he is doing something wrong still don't want to help - they'd rather stay out of it - what does that mean - how can people sit by and not help out when they know an injustice is being done.

So, here is where I sit. On one hand I can just get a job, which would allow me to get a house loan, and pay for my meager expenses, but which would also make me put my 6 mo. old and 3 year old in day care and my two oldest in extension at their school(which my Ex will pay for, he just won't pay for me to take care of our kids) - if we can even get them in, BUT it would mean, me stop breast feeding my daughter, and not being around in a big way for my kids who are going through a really tough time with Ex trying to force all these changes on them right now. BUT it would also get ExH out of my hair?, as then we would have a set schedule and I wouldn't have to see or talk to him again (Yeah right with 4 kids between us).

What I want to do is do what is best for the kids - minimize their changes, be around for them emotionally and physically right now. So, I am trying to get him to pay for me to stay home with them for at least a little while when they are young, and to keep them from his home environment - which is bad - ok he's not doing drugs or getting drunk in front of them, but emotional abuse can screw you up just as bad, and he does things like leave all the little kids unsupervised?!?!?.

But I am tired of fighting EX - he is wearing me down - and I haven't even been to court as many times as Elan.

I just look around and wonder - is it really worth what I am trying to do. Why not just do what Ex wants and get on with life. Jsut pretend the kids will be fine when they are with him. The courts don't seem to care. And everybody says the kids will be fine. But what does "fine" really mean? And how much can those poor little kids take and still be "fine?"

I am dealing with an Ex like Elan's for the rest of my life, and I don't want to.

Why aren't stay-at-home moms valued anymore? I was a working mom, and I like to work, it gives me a break from the kids, but it's hard to raise a family as a single working mom - it just is. And it would be nice for the little ones not in school to be raised by the parent that gave birth to them. It can't always happen, but why should it not happen more often if the mom is willing?

But I feel like I don't even have any room to complain because of all the hard working stuggling moms here. It's just not fair that the Ex can just ruin the children's lives for his own selfish ends.

I just need strength to go on and maybe a few prayers for all of the confused misguided and erring WS's and Exs out there so that they can stop hurting us here at MB and our kids.

K

{{{K}}}

About all I can do is send hugs. I understand what you want to do for the children, I'm doing the same thing here. I am self employed and STBX tried to get me to have to take a job somewhere. I told vocational evaluator that who would hire me since I need to take off 3 times a week for counseling for either myself or the kids, was gone in court or at attorneys a lot of the time, etc. My kids need me to be there more than I need to be in a 40 hour per week job that really wouldn't have me making much more money in the long run.

They say that protecting the kids and all is what is the main issue of divorce, but not with people like our exes who only want what is best for themselves. I can't tell you to quit fighting and get a job, cause I didn't do that. Just remember the children are the most important and if you feel they are better off with you around at this time, then go with how you feel!

Lori

God is in Control - You know what you have to do what is right for you !!! No one can tell you what that is - but I have read alot of your posts and I know that talking to your exhusband and his situation is very stressful for you to say the least - I actually think that the kids will be ok if they are in daycare - Can't you express your milk so you don't have to stop breast feeding... I know working with two kids is hard I can only imagine what workig with four kids is gonna be double hard - But I guess it comes down to how much longer do you or can you fight him...??? You have to start thinking about yourself - maybe you could comprise and get a job that has mothers hours - so that way you wouldn't need extended care after school - and you could get the older ones from the bus - that would at least look like you are putting forth an effort to make the situation more bearable - and you know what it actually might be good for you to be out of the house meeting new people and being with grownups??? I wish you luck - but I don't think you have to feel guilty about the daycare thing - they will adjust and in the long run they will know that you were and probably always will be the parent they can depend on.... Good Luck... Mimi

The idea that any child is better off in school or daycare than they are at home with an attentive, loving mom is just plain stupid.

There is no point in trying to explain this to people who say it is normal and good to warehouse the little ones instead of raising them theirselves. They will never "get it" unless they try it for themselves.

Selfishness is a big part of the problem.It is much easier on the parent to work outside the home, I know because I did it for years, and my older D suffered for it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I've been home with my two younger D's now and it is twice as hard but a hundred times more fulfilling and important!

My youngest just entered kindergarten, and I am just now searching for a career choice that will allow me to coincide work hours with their school schedule. I believe that they deserve no less.

I understand that some people have no choice. It would be nice if they wouldn't demean the valuable sacrifice made by those of us who have made the commitment to be home with our children by saying that it's good for the kids to be hearded like cattle by an overworked, underpaid and undervalued caregiver. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You had to go and get me started K, this is one of my pet peeves!

I say you are strong enough to stand up for what is right for your kids...to heck with what Dumbo wants!

BW

Just wanted to add, for those who may not know, that GIIC's EXH is a well-paid professional...more than capable of continuing to support his family with no financial ruin on his part!

He is just too selfish!

It is unfortunate that our modern society considers families to be disposable.

Bachelor's Wife - I didn't mean to offend you - but sometimes the mothers do have to work - and I worked and I have two independent, confident children - who are well behaved and fine - I didn't send them off like a herd of cattle - they had babysitters that did it from their homes and only watched them - so they were never neglected or put out to pasture.... I realize her husband is a well paid professional but is it really worth it - with all of this day to day hassle - maybe it isn't good for her as the exwife and mother to be dealing with all of the crap - and maybe it isn't good for the children - to be seeing or hearing or feeling all of this conflict between their parents - Kids no more than most people think... You can stay at home and you can do what you feel is best but all children do not suffer from daycare.......

Hi GIIC - I've read lots of your posts and think highly of them. Here, I second MAW64 and suggest looking for ways to make this work on your own.

Also, I want to convey a male viewpoint on having the SAHM continue that way after a divorce. I'm a BS and your husband is not, my wife is a WS and you are not, so there are some differences. But here goes:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife became a SAHM by mutual agreement, in the context of a marriage. My income and other contributions were essential in allowing her to be a SAHM. If the marriage is over, those assumptions no longer apply.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatever my wife did for my benefit during the marriage, she's not doing it now, and she won't be doing it after the divorce. Yet she will be drawing about 50% of my net income for a long time.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My support money goes to maintain my wife's household. It doesn't go directly to the kids (and it can't).</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her boyfriend doesn't live there yet, but he is separated and living in a mobile home right now. We have a 4BR house on a large lot, so he stands to benefit. They just co-hosted a party there on Labor Day. They don't live together (yet) but he gets some of the benefit. My point is that I have no way to influence what she does with my support money.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm paying all my kids activity fees separately - or else they wouldn't have any activities. I'm still saving for their college educations - or else that wouldn't happen. And some basics like shoes, clothes, and school supplies. All of which may be expected, but it's beyond the letter of the support agreement. It's like "Support Plus".</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I hear "think of the kids", that's a special hot-button. Because it only comes up when she wants more money. At other times, the kids don't come first.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife has a Master's degree, but refuses to seek reemployment at that level. Instead, she works part-time at a daycare center. Because of how the formulas work, that increases my support payment. She can't get medical insurance there, and just last week she asked me if I could do something about that.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My oldest (11) has been left home alone at least half days while in her care. He's called me more than once after midnight; apparently he and his 9 yo brother sleep downstairs on couches in the family room, watching South Park and other neat stuff on cable until they fall asleep. My wife is not the same SAHM that she used to be.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to be struggling. I just figured out that I can't afford to replace my little commuter car, which seems ridiculous. Doggone it, why should I worry about making things more comfortable for my wife?</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry this turned into a vent on your thread, but there are elements that apply to your husband. The divorce settlements these days are supposedly based on economic factors alone, and on that basis alone:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His net income will go down significantly.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You do have a respectable income-earning capacity.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He can't influence what you do with the money he pays you.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that SAHM is better than daycare, and we made that choice in our own marriage. But the marriage is what made that possible in the first place. I feel bad for you, but this is how the stupid system works. I think you are better served by not fighting this idea of going back to work - I really doubt he will give in on that. It's too much of a hot button, even though he had the affair.
I think you look better to the courts by trying to do this. And I think it helps you to minimize or even sever ties with him.

Thanks everyone.

I just need to sort everything out.

tmmx - I can't believe that you hav to pay so much! That would never happen where I live. And it does sound like your Ex is unappreciative - but it doesn't surprise me because she is the WS and maybe she should get a job to reign in some of her selfishness.

What bothers me so much is that in cases such as adultery it almost rewards the erring spouse - especially if it's a male and the wife stays at home. It's like saying - go screw around, divorce your wife and you will have no consequences and have to pay very little, if nothing - in fact, we will now make your ex-wife get a job just so that she will have to pay someone to do the same thing that she was doing, it's just that she is not allowed to do it anymore so that you can benefit by paying less to raise your children.

It's not family oriented at all, and maybe if more feet were held to the fire less people would stray because they would know that there would be CONSEQUENCES for their actions.

And if I have a less selfish Ex I could actually find some work at home but Ex is not dependable nor does he support anything I do - since I'm obviously the root of all of his problems.

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I'm just sick of society's new morality. It's not Christian and it hurts alot of people.

I'll get myself together, and make a good decision, but it's just crazy that I stopped working when my now 3 year old was born and I went through a HUGE adjustment to be a SAHM and now I have to readjust back. And I don't even get a thank you. OW works because she has to, she has to keep herself living in the high style that she's used to and now she has ExH's money to boot. How can someone make $25,000-$30,000 a month not be able to hire the mother of his children to take care of them. And the fact that I could make almost as much and I choose not to should speak volumes to him about my dedication.

Thanks again for the input. K

Like I said K, no point in trying to explain to these people the importance having a mommy as opposed to a babysitter!

They actually believe that you are getting a free ride, although you already know they will deny it.

I am not criticizing you for being tired of fighting, I am trying to support you in not giving in to the status-quo!

Maybe you could do some consulting work from home.

Of course that's after you've cooked for 4 kids, done the laundry for 4 kids, picked up after 4
kids, dishes , toilets, diapers, potty, skinned knees, runny noses, chauffering, and homework. Oh, yeah! I forgot you have to eat too, and maybe you could catch an occasional shower on the day you have to go grocery shopping and Sunday before church.

Do any of you folks realize how long it takes to get 4 kids bathed, brushed and asleep in bed all by yourself while ExH is getting a little SF over at the new home he bought for OW?

And then there's no way you won't have to be up in the night at least once to tend the baby or potty the toddler or change somebody's sheets!

Who's tag line is it that says if you want to stand up for what's right you will spend most of your time standing alone? I agree.

B.W.

Could not agree more. Unfortunately, the world is more outraged when someone steals a candy bar than when someone steals a spouse or a family. Which one is the bigger theif? Yet which one is given the opportunity to defend what is dear to them in the courts? It is an outrage, but fault divorce and alienation of affection are all but gone. Many of us are in the same boat.

Having said that, I read the following over lunch today and gained some solice, maybe it will help you too.

Romans 12

9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[3] Do not be conceited.
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[4] says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[5] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

My advice is try to work from home if possible, if not get a job and support yourself. THe less dependant you are on him the better off all of you will be in the end - also the less you will stress over what he will and will not do for you. I am not saying this is the best thing for your kids because it is obviously not, but I am not sure what other choice you have. Likely, he is trying to make you go back to work so he has less obligation to you financially. Fine, He obviously has at least one false idol (money). Let him have it and be done with it. I know its not right, but dont let your pride trip you up either.

I pray that God shows you his will and helps you find peace in your decision.

John
Dad of 4

Well said, John!

Thank you for quoting from the Bible, and for making your post such a calm breeze after my stormy one!

B.W.

((((TMMX)))))

I feel for you. It is not fair for you. You have a good point when you say that everything changes after divorce. That the arrangements that worked as a couple does not work as singles.

GIC,
I know you will come to the right decision for you. Can't give you any advice because I don't look at this issue as you do. I've always been a very independent type and would never take money from an Ex. It will mean a lot of adjustment for you, but it can also be a way for you to feel good about yourself and to grow.

Good luck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God is in Control,

We have some similar (yet different) issues and believe I know what you are going through. My heart goes out to you.

What I do when I need to make decisions such as yours is to write down all the choices I can think of to solve the problem, or all the issues. Then all the pros and con's of each. Once everything is written down, I go to my prayer closet (really my bathroom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) and pray for God's direction , wisdom and a clear mind. Then I put it in my Bible and let it go. The answer will come. At times I ask other prayer warriors to pray for me so I know clearly which direction I should head.

Part of this came from my Dad, who was one of the wisest and most respected man I had ever met. (He's with the Lord now)

I have to admit a part of me says really look a the agreement & see if there is a way to work yet make min wage to get more support or do some move where he goes - darn, she got me. BUT, it only hurts you when doing things like that.

God will take care of you and the kids and knows your needs.

D.

Dear GIIC,

Just a word of advice from a former SAHM who is now out in the working world.

WAIT!!!!!

The income that you recieve from a job will lower the amount of spousal maintenance your husband will have to pay you. I know it seems "mean" at this time, but whatever you get from him will have to last you the rest of your life. It's not mean...it's business.

My kids are much older than yours and it broke my heart to leave them and get a full-time job. It's still hard leaving in the morning just as they are getting up and ready for school. I don't know how single moms with little ones do it...they are my new heroes.

My ex-husband makes about the same amount of money that your husband does. This does not mean that you will get paid to stay home with those kids forever, but the longer you can wait, the better it will be for those kids and the more he'll have to pay you.

Have you ever considered making him support you while you get a degree? It's done all the time and you will be much better equipped to make decent money with one. I stayed home for twelve years with my kids and the best job I could find pays me $14.00 an hour. My house payment is more than I make. I would not be able to do this at all without support and maintenance, but those run out in a few years and I'm sunk. Don't know what I'll do at that point. I will certainly be working for low wages well into my 60's.

Don't rush out to get a job GIIC..those kids come first...ONE of their parents has to have their best interest at heart and it's gotta be you.

best of luck to you.

Good luck, making your choice & the sad thing it should be choice.

I am going to try an email an old member who doesn't post anymore but we still keep in touch by email. Her situtation is simlar to yours. Her STBX makes lots of money & can afford to pay her to stay at home for yrs & not affect his lifestyle. How she has fought might be of some help to you. It'll be later tonight or in the morning. Gotta go pick up kids for soccer pracitice,

Ahem, excuse me, I just have to open my big mouth again...

What we are overlooking here is that these 4 kids have a mom who is willing to give of herself to raise up her children in the way that they should go.

The monetary earning potential is not in question here, and should not be an issue.

GIIC is degreed and qualified to earn a very good living. The problem is that she can only do this at the expense of having her children, including a very small baby, cared for by others while she pursues a lucrative career.

GIIC is sacrificing of herself, for the benefit of her children. Why are so many of you so quick to discourage her from what she knows is true and good? Full-time parenting does not come with lunch breaks, private potty time, or coffee breaks. And you can kiss those beautiful nails and hot hairstyle good-bye.

How many of us wish that we could have had a closer relationship with our parents? A sharing, loving, non-judgemental relationship?

GIIC is fostering this kind of relationship with her kids by the very fact that she is willing to give of herself, for the short time the they are little, to nurture them through these tough times.

Her ExH, who chose to abandon the relationship for a lover, would rather pay a sitter to care for the kids than support their mom in doing it.

Standing up for the minority,

B.W.

I wasn't aware that GIIC already has a great education...sorry that I missed that, I didn't mean to offend in any way.

Unfortunatly, in divorce, monetary earning potential is a huge issue. Reality sucks huh?

I think most of us that answered this thread are on the same page here. It's just that reality can be very different from what we all know is right. The courts can come in and make decisions for people going through divorce according to charts and tables the courts have to use. They have to follow the guidelines unless the two parties can come up with their own agreement.

As I said, I was a SAHM for 12 years, and while I don't have many good things to say these days about my ex-husband I will always be grateful that he provided for us for those years.

I agree, her WH should support all of them until that last child has a degree of his/her own, but that just does not happen too often these days.

I know in my case the heal my ex-husband and I hammered out was much better for me and the kids than what would have happened if we had left it to a judge.

You will not find any opposition from me about the merits of being a mom raising her kiddos. Hardest damn job in the world.

GIIC: You and I are in such similar circumstances it is unbelieveable. My kids are now 6,5,4. I was SAHM but just recently was forced to go back to work in April. I work part time. My new road block now is that ExH is supposed to pay 75% daycare expenses, BUT WON"T PAY now because he wants OW and OW mom (grandma) to watch the kids. I just spoke to lawyer today and he will contact EXh atty but "he will need more MONEY to" defend what is in the divorce agreement.

I lived with my kids for over 1 year with NO INCOME!!! I cut every possible expense including garbage pickup!!!I went to food cupboards and qualified for WIC for 2 kids. I applied to my church's program for people in crisis. I charged everything that I could. AM I in debt, YOU BETTER believe it. Does it SUCK? YES but it was worth it but the battle continues and will continue with my EXH as will the battle with yours. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE, INCLUDING THE CHILDREN, EXCEPT THEMSELVES. I only receieved child support after a court battle because ..a long story. Anyway, the courts don't care about kids, nobody does except YOU!!!! Your EX is a controlling, manipulative man who wants to beat you down but don't you let him. You need to do what is in YOUR HEART for YOUR KIDS no matter what anyone thinks or says. YOU have to LIVE with your decision.

I wish I had the answers but I don't. I would like to have you over for coffee and chat and start a Club for SAHM divorced with A**holes for Ex's.

I understand your pain. HUGS.

Hopelessmom

I was a SAHM when my H left, with six kids including a 3 year old with special needs. In retrospect, my finding a job was a huge mistake. It would have been far better just to move to a much cheaper location, and continue homeschooling the children. My H soon lost his job and managed to remain unemployed for over two years - he has recently taken a job paying only a third of what he used to earn. If I were to increase my income now by $12,000, I would net less than I do now, after taxes, the reduction in child support, and the loss of benefits such as fuel assistance.

I worked part-time while breastfeeding 4 of my six kids, and it was very difficult, even though I wasn't a single parent at the time. If I could have kept my job while staying at home for at least the first year or two, I would have. Whatever you do, please don't stop breastfeeding your baby. It is, as you probably know, extremely difficult to pump enough milk to feed a baby when you are working anywhere near full-time.

Well, I finally got the kids to sleep, and am overwhelmed with the all of the heartfelt feedback that I've received.

I know that God will provide me with an answer- I've just been so busy preparing my case for court that when I finally stopped for a second and realized that Nov. 1 is coming up really fast, I just started to panic a little.

And it doesn't help that I keep making ExH mad - no matter what I do he takes it the wrong way.

My goal is to start something from my home over time, but right now besides trying to actually raise 4 kids(not stick them in front of the t.v. like ExH does), prepare for court, and keep myself together emotionally, it just doesn't leave alot of extra time to be the woman of the working world that I know I can be(because I once was). Sigh.

Somehow, I do still feel strangely at peace and I know everything will be ok, but sometimes the fight does weary me.

So, I'll continue to think and pray pray pray and see what the Man Upstairs wants me to do.

K