Please refer to my next post on "tears again". Wondering because out of blue I endured a night of horrible verbal abuse from stbxh. Finally just hung up the phone. That worked.

I have my suspicions that he may indeed be a sociopath. Although I will not take any diagnosis unless specifically given by a professional, my educated guess is that he is.

Advice and answers? REad my other post to see. He has no conscience whatsoever regarding his year and a half affair, his poor treatment of me and verbal abuse as of tonight. He actually doesn't believe that he has been violent as he was on one of my many D days with him I had. He totally denies all of it. Sees himself as the wronged party here. I can't get it.

I am separating myself from this permanently but want to know if you have had any dealings with this kind of personality/person. He is so convincing with his excuses and lies. He believes them. This guy could charm any woman, deceive any marriage counselor (and has) and could sell sand to someone living on the beach.
Raged against me tonight because of ??? He wants to not have to go through attorneys any more. He wants to settle the D, although he claimed last week he wanted a new beginning and who knows in future for us. I am sick of it and want permanently out.

Do they change if they are indeed sociopaths? What constitutes this disease/syndrome? I will not label him as one formally, yet believe deep down and b/c of my medical training that he has the outer signs. I don't have the DMSR at work. WE are cardiology.

Help folks?

Peachy -

Once again, I could have written your post -

my Ex does the verbal abuse, thinks that he has more than totally made up for any wrong he may have committed against me in the past, and tells me that I made up the events on the day he threw me into the door frame while I was pregnant.

Of course either he honestly has convinced himself that these events did not occur - OR he knows they did but doesn't want anyone to know that he did it.

I have often wondered if my Ex is BPD - check out Wiffty's posts and click on the Borderline Personality Site or any antisocial site and see if the articles sound remotely like your WH.

Now my counselor says that divorce heighens emotions and responses to things but that if my Ex or say your WH is acting a little outrageously then the personality traits were obviously there in some form or fashion to begin with - they just don't appear overnite.

Usually it springs from childhood or how he grew up - I am finding out that my Ex has a pattern of his parents and teachers telling him that he was God's gift to the world - in an honest attempt to help him through his troubled times as a teen - totally being rejected by persons of the opposite sex - but the authority figures never let him face any consequences - and of course I became his conscience when we started dating at a very early age, so what happened is that my Ex never developed any self control and no moral compass - he always got what he wanted when he wanted it - thought that was the way things were supposed to be, no one told him any different - a voila' we have the man who he is today. I also noticed that he always went after the girls who he SHOULDn't have gone after - the ones with the boyfriends, the ones who were married, the ones who were related... the list goes on.

So, back to you. Please do not take his verbal abuse - he needs you to dump on - to get his fix - he needs somewhere to put the negative feelings that he has inside - DON'T LET HIM DO THIS TO YOU.

My Ex would do the same thing - at pick up and drop offs of the kids as he was leaving - he's thrown in those snide remarks and now even in e-mail when he knows it's on paper - he still does it - and even when eh knew he was being tape recorded - he still did it.

They can't help it - hence PLAN B. That way they has to dump on the OW. They NEED us to dump on, and give them a reason to act the way they are acting.

So, I've been there and done that - you have to get yourself out of the cycle he wants to keep you in.

Believe me, when you take yourself out of the cycle - it feels GREAT!

K

Oh, also wanted to add - Ex always told me that I was the crazy one and needed to see a counselor - remember that they are projecting - usually whatever they say about you is in effect what is really what they need or what they are thinking. Don't fall for it.

<small>[ September 24, 2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: God is in Control ]</small>

Thanks K.

I have admired you since I got to posting again.

BPD is cyclic, but is different from sociopaths. Your x sounds like more sociopathic but I could be wrong. My stbx totally denies his abuse saying it did not happen. I have photos and police took a photo of a busted lip that didn't happen.

I am not taking this anymore. I don't even know if I want to waste my effort in sending a B letter. And I don't want him back this way.

And mine also believes he is a good father.

Once again - the same right down to the busted lip and the thinking that he's a good father...........

doooo doooo doooo doooo doooo doooo doooo doooo doooo you are about to enter the Twighlight Zone - I swear, they have got to be the same person..........

Unfortunately, if they are - then I'm a few months ahead of you and I say run not walk and get the best settlement you can from the divorce - use guilt if you have to but stand your ground and do what's best for you and your child.

He will not grow up anytime soon, and you are literally dealing with child emotions - so get out those parenting books and you should be fine.

K

GIIC,

K. Guess we may be wierdly related somehow. It is like he is making me pay penance of sort b/c monkeyho broke up with him. He just rages out of the blue. It hasn't happened in so long. I am glad though it was via phone and definitely not in person. What on God's green earth is it that i am keeping him from anyway? I have been waiting on my attorney to do this stuff. I don't know alot about the law. Now if he had a heart problem or some illness, I'd have a place to start or be able to understand.

Just remember, when the fantasy wears off and Ms. fancy toes, her new name, does something to truly offend the arrogant x, she may face same consequence b/c he is out of control. I am worried for my son tonight. Please pray that he is alseep and cannot be around stbx.

Am doing better, but still shaky. It has been so long and I guess I had a kind of panic attack again. My insides feel like jello. My head is throbbing. I have a migraine also.

I am going to go to bed soon. I will be up for a while as I want to know more about this sociopath thing and am glad to have friends here. That is such a blessing during times like this.

Well,

I guess that I too would like to know more about sociopaths - but the dicussion about BPD on the post by Time to Move On was really insightful and you really do have to check out the link on any of wiffty's posts.

Basically I think that the Exs have so much anger, rage, bad stuff- whatever inside of them, because they are NOT doing the right thing, that they are just simply letting it out however they can - whether it's yelling at us or whatever.

They will not have peace because their actions are not peaceful - they are wrong and hurtful.

And although I am VERY VERY pro-marriage, a marriage takes 2 people and when one person cannot be an active partner in the marriage and is actually causing destruction to the spouse and children, then there really is no marriage anymore - for Catholics, when one party cannot fulfil the sacrament of marriage for some reason - like an inability to commit, then you can get the marriage annulled - which is my situation.

So please don't think that you could have even done anything to stop your H from doing what he's doing because you've obviously tried everything and NOTHING has worked - so it's got to be something that he will ultimately have to deal with on his own and while he's doing that, you need to work on perserving yourself.

Don't allow him to get you all riled up - structure your life accordingly. Do what you have to do to keep yourself sane and the rest will follow.

And you talking about food is making me hungry so I may get something to eat too.

K

I didn't read your posts, just the topic. I could fill a novel with my experiences, but that would not benefit either of us. If you are right about your husband, I am sure your life is horrible beyond words.

Anti-social personality disorder is the latest term for psychopath or sociopath. The criteria for diagnosis is listed on http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe04.html

Like 95% of the people with this disorder, my ex avoided psychiatric evaluation, even when under court order. By interviewing his family and friends, and reviewing his criminal, employment, financial, and marital histories, the state appointed psychiatrist came up with dozens of examples for each of the seven criteria listed and diagnosed him in absentia.

England seems to be waking up to the fact these people DESTROY the lives of everyone who comes in contact with them. There is a law under consideration in the UK that would lockup people diagnosed with ASPD in confined communities. I cannot agree with this more. I wish there was a similar law proposed here in the US. I would become the poster girl for the cause.

K--have you eaten yet? Remember when I told you of a guy who happens to be in same profession who did the same thing with wife no. 2 with whom he had affair with while married to wife no. 1? His latest marriage has finally ended. She gave birth to another child and then divorced him. It was final about 2 weeks ago. His first and bibllical wife is doing well. The next wife just feels so "used" by it all. My sister is friends with the first wife and knows the subsequent. She is, my sis, also married to a doc, but a normal guy and very kind like our buddy here FC.

So they will not last with the OW/Om either. They will eventually let out that rage and deceit and unleash it upon them. Will tear through people, children, whoever, like a tornado until the leave their fog or find God again. Or hopefully both.

I know now he doesn't at all love me anymore. I was fooling myself when I let him spend the night a few weeks ago. He isn't capable of love.

Doitright:

Thank you my friend. REally, lock them up? Is it that bad? What happened with you? I am wondering if your situation is similar. I am going to see your link now.

Glad to meet you, albeit these circumstances to meet new friends, mind you.

Blimey, you chaps are so dandy in England! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wondering about narcissistic personality disorder. That and sociopath sounds more like it.

Ijust wanted to add that I believe that part of the problem is that - at least in my Ex's case, he never learned to love himself and therefore either cannot or does not know how to love others.

Remember the "Love your neighbor as yourself" rule - well they can't love their neighbor because they don't love themselves.

It's sad. I wish they could learn, but until they do, we have to accept this as a limitation on their part and move on...............

They are on their own road, and I know that God hasn't given up on them, however, it may take awhile for even God to get through.

K

K you are right. I have a question. he was blabbering on and on and said he has been getting my email and reading it for last two months. I have passcodes and a separate email account for past year. Can he do that?

Just wondering. I am wondering why he even cares to attempt to hiijack my emails. Unless he wants to believe I am at his level now.

We need to ask someone more computer literate like c++guy.

Doing something creepy like that sounds like antisocial behavior to me - I just read that criteria.

I told you that they are trying to hold on.

And you'd think that he'd have something better to do - but he wants to be IN CONTROL of you still. No big surprise there.

I'd find a way to keep him from reading your e-mails.

Ok, computer people - we need some help here.

K

Hi NPIGA - First, I'm so sorry you have had (and continue) to deal with a VERBAL ABUSER! He is similar - but worse - than my ex wife was - but I can say this (it's an old Army saying) "He's a Legend in his own mind" and that makes it OK for him (in his mind) to just stomp all over everybody and everything he wants to - if he doesn't like things the way they are - then he 'magically' can change things to what he WANTS them to be; hence the yelling, etc.
My suggestions to you (and believe me, they worked quite well for me)
On the Instant Messenger, the SECOND he begins with something you don't like or appreciate, you just IM him back and tell him so - you are both adults (don't know about him tho) and as adults, he is expected to talk (IM) like one. If he comes back with something else STOOPIT, then BLOCK him! Or, if you have AOL IM, you can 'warn' him - if he doesn't get it, then you just LOG OFF the IM - he'll see that you disconnected. You can always log on again later and/or unblock him at anytime.
On the phone: same deal - you tell him you are NOT going to put up with any more of his VERBAL ABUSE of you and that's it. If he can't (or won't) apologize or says ONE MORE THING ugly in his next sentence, then JUST HANG UP ON HIM. No need to say good by or anything else - just HANG UP!!! Nobody should have to be harangued by anyone - especially if they did nothing to deserve it.
In the event you are able to finish up an IM or phone conversation, or face-to-face conversation with him, do like I did, end it with: "Have a nice day, (his name)." Say it nicely, no matter what crapola he said or threw at you.
Belive me - it will get his goat and GALL him to no end! Plus, it 'releases you' from any bitterness or hard feelings you might have.
I lost everything in my Divorce but a few things. I was painting my ex's house and she came out and began yelling at me, etc. Then she told me to go to He!!, so I just put the paintbrushes down and walked away from her and the house. Never went back. From then on, every single time she would throw another load of BS at me, I'd always say in my most calm quiet nice-sounding voice, "You have a nice day, Tracy."
She couldn't stand that!
Do it. It works. Trust me.
Since he's going to act like a child, then treat him like one!!
Please pray about this too, but then, I know you already have.
May God bless you on the Road ahead.
Peace, Harold

Peachy,

I'm not in England, I am in upstate NY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My situation was extreme, and any explanation has to be long and incomplete.

I was married about 15 years before there were any symptoms that *I* saw. Of course, they were there, but most psychopaths wear something Hervey Cleckly calls, "The Mask of Sanity". He wrote a book by the same name and I advise you to read it. Psychopaths know right from wrong. They don't understand why someone would do something right if it didn't benefit them, or not do something wrong if they would get something out of it.

I have a new relationship now, and a child. My divorce was the BEST thing that could ever have happened to me. I lost every material possession I had, sentimental objects, and my business... and I will not deny that HURT, and continues to cause suffering. But I have good relationships with my children now, and that is what matters the most.

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: DoItRight ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by God is in Control:
<strong>We need to ask someone more computer literate like c++guy.

I'd find a way to keep him from reading your e-mails.

Ok, computer people - we need some help here.

K</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not the best dude around on 'puters, but here goes:
First off, change your email to another free webmail, I have found that Yahoo, Hotmail, and Netscape are all good ones. Do not use your ISP email any longer.
Second, get a very long password with a few numbers thrown in - not an obvious number like year of birth, etc.
Third, look at your computer in back where your keyboard is plugged in. If you see a little white or other colour deal other than the keyboard plugged between the keyboard plug and the computer, REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY - it is a 'spyware' mini-hardware with installed invisible software to record your keystrokes.
Fourth, TURN OFF ALL file-sharing - if you have a computer home network. Do NOT share any files with anyone. This especially if you have downloaded any file-sharing softare like you can use for downloading and sharing MP3s, music videos, etc.
If none of this works, I would suggest using your Computer Restore CD-ROM to completely erase your hard drive and then start all over again from scratch, as if you had just purchased your computer from the store. If you're running Windows XP it's very easy to do using System Restore. HOWEVER, I am sure you have files on your computer you really want to save. I would burn them onto a CD (hopefully you have a CD-R Drive on your computer) and then do the System Restore thing.
Let us know if this works - Oh yeah, one last thing.
GET Norton Internet Security and Norton Anti-Virus - it's possible he has planted a Trojan Horse on your computer and the Anti-Virus will find it and kill it. You have to do a System Scan on your computer after installing each program. Trust me - this stuff works! I wouldn't be online without it.
Harold

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DJ T-Bird:
[QB]Hi NPIGA - First, I'm so sorry you have had (and continue) to deal with a VERBAL ABUSER! RE: The computer thing, almost forgot one: DELETE EVERYTHING OFF YOUR OLD EMAIL ACCOUNT YOU USE FOR CORRESPONDING TO YOUR EX. THEN, GET YOUR NEW EMAIL ACCOUNT, WHICH YOU WILL USE FOR YOUR FRIENDS, AND EVERYBODY ELSE EXCEPT YOUR EX.
USE YOUR OLD EMAIL ACCOUNT FOR HIM EXCLUSIVELY - DO NOT SEND ANYONE OTHER THAN YOUR EX ANY EMAILS FROM YOUR OLD ACCOUNT.
I hope I'm not sounding too paraniod, but when somebody stoops SO LOW as to snoop into somebody else's email, well, that's lower than whale >>>> and he knows it! Drastic measures have to be taken here.
I know I don't have all the answers, and I am sure there are others on here who have some good suggestions, please, post them here. NPIGA really needs some help here!
Thanks, Harold
May God bless and keep you.

Peachy,

sounds like you need to accept the fact that "you married a ticking time bomb." BPD may be cyclical, some long and some short, but really alot of the diagnosis have overlaps. . . BPD has some similar characteristics to NPD, that has some similarities to sociopaths, etc. . .

But also, sociopath is an older term to define a collection of disorders. . . and today, there are many more smaller slices of the big group. . . and the diagnosis run along a continuum from one end to another. . . .

yes, K brought up something i fought against, and was exorcized for, holding the XW responsible for her behavior. . . . something her parents didn't do, and something that she is not doing to our kids. . . . they use anger and threats to get their own way. . . .

your STBX is certifiable. . . . however, we are not in 1950 anymore, people have excuses that are acceptable, not my fault, that was the way i was brought up, well, judges can relate to that, as they were brought up also. . . sometimes not the best. . .

I have read alot about BPD, and when the "exact" same discussions with my XW were in the book, i finally understood that it wasn't my problem . . . my kids don't like me when XW is around, because she will do anything to "compete" with me to be the "better" parent, along with all the bullsh!t twisted logic she can muster. . .

unforetunately, there is very little you can do to fix them, and its bigger than Plan A or B. . . just accept that you made a bad choice with loads of missing information, and you will be fine in the future. . . .

start the damn proceedings now, NOW! do not wait, etc. . . just file, now, and get it over with as soon as possible. . . . apologize when you can, but don't change your goal and get a very, very good lawyer, . . .

all of a sudden, my X's lies to the attorney aren't in the best interest of her for now, so she wants to change from the state enforced CS system which her lawyer told her to do, because i wasn't paying in Plan B. . . . now that she isn't getting her way with the state, she wants to deal directly with me. . . forgetaboutit. . . . she lives with her consequences. . . .i am outta here, and there are alot of hereditary strains . . .

what apple falls on the other side of the highway?

wiftty

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

I too have been married (still am) to someone I believe has one or more disorder. He has no remorse, or al least doesn't show it. He breaks the law, but he is very discreet about it. He doesn't like getting caught! He was stopped last Feb for not wearing a seatbelt and actually took it to court and contested it. Now, he either was or wasn't weraing it, and at that time he never wore one. He lost in court but the fine was reduced to court cost, so he feels like he won in a sense. With some people, it doesn't matter what we do, they are that way, for what ever reason. I happen to believe they don't want to change or they would. There is plenty of help if they can't do it alone. I am tired of making excuses for my H's behavior, tired of living with it, tired of the damage it is doing/has done to my kids and myself. I feel like it is up to me to get away from it because he has had every opportunity to change and hasn't. Of course he says it's not him it's me. I am so tired of trying to decide what the "right" thing to do is. I may make a wrong decision here, but I will have to deal with it if it is. I have forgiven, excused, made excuses for him and enabled him to remain in this pattern for way too long. I am not responsible for his actions, he is. He may change, he may not. Not my problem!
Free

I am new here, but have been reading the site for a while.

You husband is exactly like mine. They all seem to have a narcissistic personality disorder.
I've done a lot of reading on this. It helps to know what you dealing with.

Here are the links:
http://www.drirene.com/

And this is the best I could find on the net.
It's written by a narcissist. That may open your eyes. Well, it opened mine...
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq1.html#FAQs

The button line is that these people are beyond hope, unless you are willing sacrifice your children, your job, and your personal well being for them.

Hope it helps,