I have a question. And it may sound morbid, but I'd like to know what the divorced people out there, that were married for a good chunk of time (10+ years), would feel if their Ex's passed away.

I have intentionally not seen my ex in well over 2 years, and haven't talked to him since Dec 2001. All enforced by me. It's just too hurtful.

Recently there have been a few deaths at my work, along with dignosis of severe life threatening diseases. All colleagues of mine that I care about and have closely worked with.

I found myself taken over with grief one day driving home. And I started to think about the fact that I would never be able to say things that I still deeply feel about my ex. Not hatred or anger, emotional feelings of love or caring or something ... ? Of things we shared, of all that time we spent as one another's partner in life. It overwhelmed me and did frighten me, the fact that either he or I could leave this earth without saying words that mattered only to us.

Has anyone else thought about this, or can relate to my feelings? Am I needing closure in some way? Or perhaps, is this me experiencing a by-product of the beginning of forgiveness?

If you advise me to contact him and say the things I may need to, please know that I'm pretty sure I won't be open to doing that. It's a really bad situation with the OW he's with. Opening that door possibly opens the door to an array of badness. It took a lot of energy and time to get him to understand that no-contact should be taken seriously.

If something was to happen to him, I don't know how I would feel, if I would feel regret the rest of my life. Any advice on what I can do for myself to seek closure, if that's what I need.

Posting this was very hard for me to do. I thought I was farther along with healing, and admitting I still have these type of feelings makes me believe I'm not.

Jo

<small>[ November 24, 2002, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I am maybe the last one to be very smart about that question but...
I was in a kind of similar situation a month ago: I had to go to surgery cause of ca. You know I (as MD) was sure I'd wake up and live after that (and I am like you can see) but you never know.
The difference between us is maybe in the fact that I still am in love with exH in spite of the fact that he has completely new family and life now and that we can never be together again.
The day before I went to the hospital I wrote him a letter, addres it to him at his company , to avoid his wife to touch it.
And I wrote him from my heart my deep feelings-nothing bad, some nice memories from the past, how scared about the surgery I am, all nice things.
I will probably never know did he get it, did he read it at all, what does he think but I feel good, no regrets.
He came to visit me one time in this month but speak not a word about the letter so I don't know what is the effect.

Maybe you can write a letter and send it or even don't send it now but one day when you feel it's a right time.
just a thought.
Best wishes
D

Maybe you could write it in a letter to be read after you're gone. Then you get to have the last word, say your piece, and you still don't have to be in contact with him in this life.

If he dies first, well, his loss. I suppose you could read it to him over his grave.

I have said everything I need to in this lifetime to my XH. What I say falls on deaf ears anyway and just makes him mad if it has any effect at all, so I'm at peace with it.

Interesting, I had the same idea about a letter. Write it down, leave it in a safe deposit box or such, to be opened when....uh...you know. But that will probably be decades away, so maybe is moot anyways.

Hey Jo,

Great question. I have heard that Valerie [XW] needs another open heart operation. This would be number four. Something about a bad pulmonary valve with regurgitation. Routine surgery in todays time but still there is the poss of death. I would feel bad if she didn't make it. Hell, we spent *some* good times together. I don't really like what she did to me ,but, I don't hate her enough for her demise. That's only me, and I could be wrong.

On a lighter note, I found this beautiful saying on a tomestone on the net.

Free your body and soul
Unfold your powerful wings
Climb up the highest mountains
Kick your feet up in the air
You may now live forever
Or return to this Earth
Unless you feel good where you are!

Missed by your friends.

Check out the first letters of the lines above. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

PS, I didn't write this.

Warning! Rambling ahead.

Married 21 years.
I don't think I'd be too upset about it. However...
As you know, we have had very minimal contact (maybe 3 hours?) since she left. Wow... almost 4 years ago now.

If you advise me to contact him and say the things I may need to, please know that I'm pretty sure I won't be open to doing that.
Sometimes there are things we NEED to express to someone but cannot for whatever reason.

I think for us, it would not accomplish much, if anything for the situation. It may do something for our own sense of (relief?)

Am I needing closure in some way?
When you find it, let me know how to get it.

Infidelity, as you know, is something that is very difficult to process & understand. When someone leaves by dying, it is much easier to process because of the finality of death. When somneone leaves because of infidelity, you stand there & shake your head, being totally blown out of the water.

If she were to die, I'd like a copy of the death certificate so I could collect the life insurance. Morbid? Perhaps, but it's the only thing I can think of I'd (need/want/require) from her at this point.

Resilient,

Perhaps in the light of the season of Christmas, a time of peace, love and goodwill, you could send your ex a Christmas card with a letter stating what you'd like to say to him and how the need to express it came about (the death and life threatening illness of friends and colleagues). I understand first hand how difficult and painful verbal communication can be. It's what sets me back everytime. Unfortunately, with a minor still involved, sometimes communication is necessary.

I do feel that perhaps you are finding your way toward forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't mean you condone what happened and it is definitely not something that you do for your ex, but for yourself. I truly don't feel we can heal completely without forgiveness because the rage will eventually consume us. Forgiveness is something I still struggle with, sometimes even on a daily basis. But I am making strides in that directions and it's allowed my heart to soften somewhat and not be quite so cynical.

I don't know if this suggestion helps but I do understand where you are coming from.

Thank you everyone. Very good suggestions regarding a letter.

I have thought about this some more and I'm leaning toward me writing that letter, composing it over a length of time and giving it to my attorney as part of my estate and will.

Thing is, as time goes by, even just a couple days, and after reading your posts ..... I have to say this IS all about me. My perception of what I am assuming he may feel too ... which, BTW ... I am SURE he is not feeling anything for me, or about me. Or worried about the death thing and no real closure. I'm sure if I sent a letter to him he'd look at it as another female that still loves him along with his other harem of females that have written heart felt letters to him. Pretty meaningless when you think of it in those terms. And pretty sad I still feel anything for a man that treats people in such a manner.

So, I need to do what I need to do for ME. Only me.

I really do appreciate your help. All I want to do is minimize any more grief I have to go thru, and do the right thing so I will have no regrets.

Best,
Jo

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted Resilient and responded to by Chris:

Am I needing closure in some way?
When you find it, let me know how to get it.

Infidelity, as you know, is something that is very difficult to process & understand. When someone leaves by dying, it is much easier to process because of the finality of death. When somneone leaves because of infidelity, you stand there & shake your head, being totally blown out of the water.

If she were to die, I'd like a copy of the death certificate so I could collect the life insurance. Morbid? Perhaps, but it's the only thing I can think of I'd (need/want/require) from her at this point.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And Chris .... you have summed it up pretty good. It's so hard to find closure. For me, since I didn't initiate the divorce, finding closure is almost impossible.

I still feel like things are hanging out there undefined and left un-said. And I'm coming to grips that that's how they may remain ... I feel like I'm looking for a valve release somewhere on my person where I can click it to let it all go. No longer worry about what is past.

Jo

Jo,

I think you will find that time will take care of this, too. I was married for 18 years and for the first couple years after we divorced, I sometime felt the overwhelming urge to talk to my ex about these kinds of things, even though I was remarried.

Now, I look at him and wonder just exactly how I could have been married to someone I don't even know and never did. JMTCW.

ah, you want closure, understanding...ok, there is a principle that applies here..

"crap" (in lieu of a more explicit word) happens.....drive on sister

we live in a world where the study of chaos is actually useful, has meaning in itself (as an engineer you know that). So, a chaotic event occured in your life, such things are necessary for the orderly (which includes chaos) functioning of the universe, there is no need for understanding, there is none. You just played an important role in the orderly functioning of the universe...just go pick-up your well deserved medal, keep your eyes forward, and soldier on....your species salutes you.

That help any?

<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

Resilient,

I used to wonder the same thing concerning my first exh..and sometimes, I still do..and we've been divorced for almost 14 years..

Would someone contact me if he died?
How would I feel?

I know, at least for now, that one day I could actually run into him..I don't know how I'd feel if I did see him again (as I haven't seen him since the day we got divorced, and we spent the afternoon after the divorce hearing sitting out on the beach talking)

We didn't have any children together, so we don't have that parental connection..but it didn't
make it hurt any less..

I know where he lives (in another state) and how to contact him if I ever need to, and in the past 14 years, I've been in contact with him 2 or 3 times..and that was hard..I called him to let him know my mother passed away, and a year later to let him know a dear friend had passed away. I know I didn't have to let him know..as he would have found out that Christmas when his Christmas card was returned, but I didn't feel he should have to go through that..I know I would have been devasted had I found out about a friends death that way..just as he contacted me when his mother passed away..so I wonder, if his wife would contact me to let me know he died..(they married a month after our divorce)

I don't think about it as often as I used to..but
there are times (like now, reading your post) that
I'll be reminded of him..and wonder how he's doing
how his life has turned out..if he's happy, or if he has died and nobody has contacted me to let me know, and so forth..and I'll say a prayer for him..and I remember the fun times we shared..and then I'll remember why we are no longer married..
and know that yes, I still care about him, I still
wish him the best..and hope that he's happy in his life..

There are times I'd love to pick up the phone and call just to say hello, but I don't..and yes,I also wonder..does he sometimes think of me..and
I'd have to say, yes, I'm sure he does..if I do, then, I'm sure he also remembers..and thinks about certain memories that only he and I share..
and they were fun memories..our marriage only lasted 4 years..and of that 4 years we were only together married 119 days, because his job took him overseas..and because of my job at the time
I couldn't go, and well, he met someone else that he spent time with..while I couldn't because of distance..

but, in reference to your question, about letting him know how you feel..I did that..I sat down and wrote a letter telling him how I felt, that I still loved him, and that even though things would
never be as we had planned I'll always remember the times we did share together..and hoped that he
found happiness in his life..it helped to give me closure--and it also helped me when I did contact him later about the deaths in the family..there
were no bitter feelings, not as much hurt about the past and the broken dreams..and he was able to
still offer words of comfort..for the loss I had..

he had his class reunion a couple years ago, and I wondered if he went..I know he still has friends in the area he went to school with that he keeps in touch with..so I know the possiblity
is there that I may run into him again..like I said, it's been almost 14 years (next month) and I still wonder about him..but it doesn't hurt like it did years ago..

So if you feel you need to write your ex a letter
letting him know how you feel, then do it..you don't have to put a return address..you may never know if he reads it or not..it may end up in the garbage can..but you'll know..you at least sent him a letter letting him know how you felt..
whether he actually reads it or not is another story..but at least you will know..you tried..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LurkingAbout:
ah, you want closure, understanding...ok, there is a principle that applies here..

"crap" (in lieu of a more explicit word) happens.....drive on sister

we live in a world where the study of chaos is actually useful, has meaning in itself (as an engineer you know that). So, a chaotic event occured in your life, such things are necessary for the orderly (which includes chaos) functioning of the universe, there is no need for understanding, there is none. You just played an important role in the orderly functioning of the universe...just go pick-up your well deserved medal, keep your eyes forward, and soldier on....your species salutes you.

That help any?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ummm, thanks Lurking About.

But you know, the chaos theory does not consider or factor in feelings and emotions, it's strictly based on logic. So with that said, my "feelings" are real, and they need to be addressed, they need to be considered and figured out so I can plan how to manage them and then move forward.

It's so easy for anyone, myself included, to tell someone else ... HEY, get over it, it's done, move forward, don't waste anymore time, this is getting old, stop beating that dead horse you're dragging around ... etc., etc., etc.

Don't you think I wish I had the power to INSTANTLY recover from all this, to purge all the bad and wake up one morning like a new born baby, no cares or baggage? <rhetorical>

I do appreciate your encouragement. As logical a thinker as I may be, my emotional side is very dominant, probably more than I like to admit.

I'm wondering where you came from Lurking About. What is your story. Are you a WS, OP, BS or just a Marriage Builder or a Marriage Builder supporter? I find your words interesting, and yet curious at the same time, bruther/sista.

Jo

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Thorned Rose,

I am going to respond you to. I'm just really taken aback by what you have wrote, and want some time to digest it. Seems you know precisely where I'm coming from right now. I need a little time ....

Jo

Resilient,

Time, well, the problem with time is you never know how much time you really have...

I mean, we aren't promised another minute of time..as in anything could happen..at any moment..
and our choices will be gone..you could have a massive heart attack and die..or you could be in a car accident on the way to the store..and killed

So time really isn't on our side..as so many people seem to think..

"I have all the time in the world" well techincally that is wrong--as we aren't even promised a tomorrow, heck we aren't even promised a today..or even an--afternoon..

"give me a minute" heck..we may be dead in a minute..

I guess that's why we should always tell our loved ones how we feel..that way if something happens..we know that we have said all we wanted them to know..

Hi Jo

my XH and I now have a strange relationship. He described it as a sister/brother relationship the other day. I was a little taken aback... but that is what it probably is now. I don't think that he and I would have reached this point had he still been married to OW. Even though we argue sometimes, when he tries to discuss our past relationship, because mistakes made in our marriage cannot be rectified now and I refuse to get into those things with him. Probably because it is also mostly too painful for me. So I have offered him my friendship and only that. We have discussed that we will love each other always. He has told me that I will always be a part of his life... first love and all that.... That conversation was only possible after getting to sort of know him on a friendship level again. So for me that is great, but don't get me wrong it is not a bed of roses... the friendship is difficult, sometimes we argue. Then I unplug my home phone so he cannot call me back to continue arguing. Thats the way I deal with that... The other thing is he tells me he is moving back to Durban (this is +600kms from me), but didn't even tell me he will see me before he leaves. I know I shouldn't be hurt by this, I know it shouldn't be important and its not as important as it once may have been but its a little hurtful. Sorry I am rambling about my life... Actually just wanted to let you know how we came to expressing our feelings for each other post divorce.

take care
Pantha

<small>[ November 28, 2002, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Pantha ]</small>