Ok,

I may have to go for full custody here......

Please tell me if I am overracting or if I have cause for concern.

I hear from boys(age 8 and 6) tonight in their nightly phone call that they are punished because OW/new wife gave them a walkie talkie and let them go off shopping by themselves. They said she told them to be back in 20 minutes and it turned out to be 40 because they didn't go where OW thought they were going.

Of course they got lost, and thus punished.

And also, the 6 year old said that he had to give up his toy that he "earned" that morning when OW told him that if he stayed upstairs in the playroom and was quiet and didn't wake them up that he would get $5.

[I have this thing about the upstairs playroom - ExH tells the boys to stay there whenever he doesn't want them around - has let them - including 3 year old stay up there late late late at night when he and OW watch movies together and tells kids that they are not to be bothered. IMO - you put the kids to bed at a reasonable time and then watch movies together.]

So, that's my vent.

And I ask ExH about it and he said that he went out to the car to put packages in there and let the boys go alone with their money to a store in the mall while he went out to the car. Yes the kids were out of his sight - earlier kids told me that he wasn't even there - only OW was. ExH continues to tell me that the kids would not get kidnapped if they did what they were told to do which I guess is go straight to the store and buy the toy they wanted.

Ok, am I crazy. I get two identical stories at different times from the boys and then an entirely different one from ExH.

Even so - ISN'T IT DANGEROUS TO ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE ALONE IN THE MALL? EVEN FOR A MINUTES?

Before I call up attorney, I would appreciate some feedback.

Custody evaluation is going to be ordered on Jan. 14th which can't come soon enough for me.

K

Oh my!
I just went to my "how kids cope with divorce" class last night and a topic like this was covered. It is good and healthy for the kids to see the other parent, but only when they are not being neglected or subjected to abuse.
Personally, I couldn't stand for that. I would never want to send my kids thinking that they wouldn't be watched constantly, especially at that age.
See what your atty. thinks.
He does sound like he has the i.q. of a child.
Sorry you're going through this....
KK

My children are 11, 9, and 7 and I don't let them wander around alone in stores. We go to the toy aisle together....my theory is that I'd rather have 20 minutes of inconvenience than a lifetime of regret. Can you explain that to your husband? That a child's life is more precious than anything else, and being kidnapped or worse will scar him for life? It's just not worth it. And nobody it has happened to ever expected it.

we just came home from a 6 hr trip, when my 13 1/2 yr old son went into the men room at the rest stop, it was late after 1 in the morning. I stood outside the door. gave him 5 minutes to come out or I would be in there after him. I still watch my son, there are a lot of nuts out there waiting to find children who are alone. Your children are too young to be shopping by themself.

Call the lawyer NOW!!!

When did this happen? If it was in the last two days you should be able to call the mall and see if the kids alone were caught on any videos, check the store that they went to. This could be used in court.

Why does he insist on having kids over if he does not spend quality time with them and sends them from the room!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear GIIC,

Definitely go to the lawyer with this one....he is being totally unsafe with your kids. There is no excuse for that type of irresponsibility. There is no way I would let my kids go to a mall by themselves at that age. Think how horrible it would be if something did happen.

Boy, I will pray for you and the kids on this one. That is ridiculous---but don't count on the legal system to actually do something. I would complain loudly to your ex and his bimbo however. That should never occur again.

Take care....Pat (My bloods boiling on this one--why in the world would he want the kids, if he doesn't really want to be with them? I hate this divorce mess. What a crock!!!

I can't imagine leaving my children alone in a public place. I get nervous if they are a couple isles over in the toys section. I don't know, maybe I am overprotective, but I would NEVER allow my children to be alone under such circumstances. Much less with a NEW wife at that age.

As far as the children and the toy room, I agree, I think that it is not a good thing to do, however, I don't think I would mix these two problems together. One is just a variation on parenting, i.e. the upstairs room. While I don't agree with it, that is just opinion. But leaving the children alone in a store at all is abusive and potentially life threatening. Don't decrease the severity and seriousness of the store incident by adding 'other' incidents in the same argument, unless they are equally dangerous. It just dilutes the seriousness of the action.

But I would definitely report this to my lawyers, and write an OFFICIAL letter to him stating that this is not acceptable, and that the safety of your children come first. That way, if anything like this occurs in the future, you have precedent and may be able to do something about it.

We all have variations on how and what we believe makes a 'good parent'. Some people think that if the child is clothed and fed, that the requirments have been met. Others think that 24 hour hovering is the key. I fall in between, but it is a continuum. My wife is much more liberal and less observant and involved. That does not make her wrong, just at a different place on the continuum. But leaving my boys alone in a store would be the first and last straw.

Take the time and steps to protect your children and document this officially. You probably can't 'do' anything about it other than express your displeasure. But DON'T do it and also speak about the upstairs room at the same time. He will ONLY hear your problem with how he raises 'his' children, and you loose the 'strength and righteousness' of your real concern.

We are all going to have to learn to relax somewhat. It sounds like each of us here on these boards were the more 'concerned' and involved parent. I guess otherwise we would not have had the wayward part of our wayward spouses. But we also have to realize that we can make our lives miserable by trying to control how our ex's raise our children while they are in their care. I know that my wife loves our boys, without one bit of a doubt. We just don't agree on what sort of things that love represents and entails. But I know that I can do my absolute best while my boys are with me, and show them how to be as men and fathers.

I am extremely lucky and unlucky all at once. I have two boys, so I have the opportunity to be an excellent role model about how THEY should be as adult men. I am unlucky, because I would also love to have a little girl. Maybe someday, I can still have that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hold tight, and my recommendation is to try not to let all the 'crap' of variations in your children's upbringing cause you too much pain. Just realize that you can only control you, and you can also only control your children's time while they are WITH you. Your job is to show them the benefits and rewards of living life YOUR way rather than his. Who knows, maybe they will be able to see the differences and not feel the need to have pink and blue hair and a nose ring when they are 17. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think it's way too young to be letting the boys wander off on their own! Call your lawyer!

Good luck!

Hi GIIC - I think it depends on the ages, the kids, and the situation, but 6 and 8 are way too young. Tell your ExH that you know the correct story from your boys, and that it must not happen again. In other words, don't "ask" him about it since you can't trust the response anyway. And of course document it for your evaluation. At least there can be some language added to the parenting plan or custody agreement, so that if it happens again there will be definite consequences.

I will let my 9 and 11 y.o. go somewhere else in a detached store, provided they stay together and go to specified places. But not the 6 y.o., and not the older ones in an open mall. Sometimes I will send the 11 y.o. to get something in a different grocery aisle, and he comes right back. It depends on the kids and the situation. My 9 y.o. is too young/immature to be off on his own in a store. I can't imagine sending a 6 y.o. and an 8 y.o. off together. And restrooms are another thing, you have to wait outside the door. Everybody knows about the rest stops on interstate highways ...

- Tom

no. let him hang himself. . . .

and you need to talk to the boys about it. .
about how in this family, the best way to
stay together is to stay together. . . .

no, this is similar behavior to my X,
she would leave 8 year old home alone sick
while she went to work. . . . .

and because there is a telephone there, everything is ok. . . and she swore that before we had kids, and after they were born, and to her boss, that she didn't think that anyone should leave their kids home alone. . . . .

a piece of their brain has shut down, is there alzheimers in his family? or MS?

like it skipped a generation or two??

no you are correct in your parenting skills. .. .
and i had a family MD tell me the same answer to my question as i gave you. . .

wiftty

I admit I havent' followed your story too closely, but if I'm correct, your WH is quite the "controller" is he not? If you try to do anything to change the status of his visitation time, I suspect he'll be upset.

Without getting him too upset, I would try to suspend his "rights" to parental time with the kids till a court hearing involving this (and all the other) incidents of kids being left alone/neglected. This way, you can protect your children until a judge hears about all this.

If he doesn't like that, let him push the issue so that it comes up about WHY you are suspending his time w/kids in front of a judge and/or lawyers. That way, he hangs himself in front of witnesses who are in a position to do the bidding for you.

Good luck, and we are all still praying for you!

THANKS ALL!

When the kids came back today they once again told me about the incident, and they swear that ExH WAS NOT THERE AT ALL - that it was only OW and her kids and a friend and them.

This is the same attitude that Ex has with the swimming pool and as summer gets closer I pray that my youngest doesn't end up at the bottom of it.

And that is why we are having a formal custody evaluation and I can let the examinator know everything.

I will aso let the attorney know on Monday - has anyone noticed that Ex always pulls these stunts on the weekends.........

Anyway, regardless of what actually happened, the truth is that Ex does not see a problem with some basic parenting skills that involve the safety of the children.

I know that we will have different rules and parenting styles but I also expect the kids to be safe and returned to me all in one piece.

Just when I think that maybe things will be ok, he pulls another stunt like this.

I do pray that God is with me and the children as we go through this custody battle and lets the best situation win out for the children.

Thanks again to you all for once again reminding me that I am not the crazy one.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know that we will have different rules and parenting styles but I also expect the kids to be safe and returned to me all in one piece.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, he hasn't fail you yet, its the first time he does, can you sue the other parent for child endangerment?

wiftty

I believe the lack of supervision is neglect. Yes we as parents do cut corners at times- I plead guilty to leaving my kids in the car while I run into return a video- but 6 and 8 is too young to go to a store unsupervised especially in a mall, especially for 20 to 40 minutes.

My kids are 13, 11 and 6 and only recently have we allowed the two older kids to shop in the mall at different stores than us. Like they could go to the Gap while we look at Pottery Barn and then we meet up.

Try to prepare for your meeting as much as possible. Do you have a child psychologist you could consult? Write down the behaviors that concern you.

How did your exhusband manage to get joint custody? It seems so unfair to you.

He obviously knows that was a horrible judgement call on his ow's part, he's knows that was a wrong thing for her to do, so he is lying to try to cover it up.

I wouldn't let this go at all. Bite on him like a starving bull dog with a bone. I bet it'll never happen again. I guess ow is getting a bit tired of children already.

Did she send her own children off like that too?

Stay tough and do what you need to do to protect your babies and show him you WILL NOT tolerate anything that may endanger or harm them.

Hi GIIC,

My kids are 9 1/2, nearly 7 and 5, and there is no way I would allow them out of my sight in a mall, or anywhere for that matter. I gave them money to buy me a Christmas present each, and I took them to KMart and stood with them in the aisle with my eyes 'covered', saying "I'm not looking...I'm not looking!" rather than send them in by themselves. YES...okay, the world laughed at me that day, but my kids were safe, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He did, or SHE did the wrong thing, and I believe you should go to the lawyer regarding this. I would not stand for it.

Love and light,

Jacky

Your gut told you what you already knew, that many of us here think that this is bad parenting.
Next, he'll leave them alone in a movie theater. These are the places that pedophiles prey on young children.
Document this with your lawyer, but I think you'll get alot of ground with the evaluator. Can you force him to take parenting classes?
I'd like to talk to you offline, as I need to schedule the psychological evaluation soon. My e-mail is mcelros@yahoo.com
Please describe what happens in your eval.
Thanks. I liked all the kudos you received in the best poster e-mails.
God Bless you.
Too bad you don't live close. I had a dinner party last night for 10 women, mostly divorcing with young children. It was wonderful, and this network of fabulous women just empowers us all more. I thank God for bringing so many wonderful people into my life.

xh and ms. stripey nails HAVE HAD THEIR LOBOTOMIES! They are either extremely selfish or stupid. Or both.

Sic the lawyer on them both. And maybe file charges against ow. She is horrible. They both are for attempting to do any such thing.

I am so mad I can't see straight. A walkie talkie? When an abductor comes up and grabs a child do you think they say "this is an abductor. I am taking your child" over the walkie talkie? And can't someone stronger throw the walkie talkie away? She doesn't have a brain.

And yes, she's growing tired of having to care for another person's children. They have too many between them. Sounds like they're having to come up with ways to get around it and that calls for your lawyers to come into action. FULL CUSTODY IS NEEDED BY YOU HERE.

No more chances for Dr.Willy and his nurse, Nurse Stripey Nails. That's their new names. Maybe they should learn more about parenting than medicine. And the gift of money or toys for leaving them alone and having their little morning sleep in or sex thing? That is sick. Payoff of a child for adult things? Obviously their honeymoon is now over. He he he. I am so angry and p.o'd at them. And at Deucey too.
Guess their little fantasy of having each to themself is wearing a bit thin. After all, they have HOW MANY CHILDREN BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM? No wonder Dr. Willy is spreadin' his love around.

I give them six more months and he will be in need of his lawyers for another divorce. Get full custody. This OW and he aren't good parents. She will not be around long and I think the kids are BEING NEGLECTED BY THEM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />