The other night, H and I discussed details of his affair. They were down to the smallest things, how he held her, how he kissed her, etc. I wanted to know, but anyone who's had to listen to the details of their spouse's affair, knows how hard that is. Your head is spinning, can't breath, can't think straight, feel like I'm floating, feel sick to my stomach, etc. <P>H was pretty good through most of it, held me and answered the best that he could. He tried to kiss me a few times, and I just did not have it in me to kiss him at that point in time. After we finished talking, I was going to try to sleep. He even commented that he knew I would not be able to sleep well. <P>THEN...he asked me for a sexual favor, which was ONLY for his pleasure. I simply said NO and went to sleep. The more I though about him asking that, the more angry I have become. How could he be so insensitive. How could he be thinking of himself while I was laying there in my own personal hell? He just got done, describing in detail, him being with some other woman. Then he thinks I should offer him sexual pleasures? DON'T THINK SO!<P>I tried to explain how angry he made me. He said he was sorry I was upset, but that he doesn't think he did anything wrong. Which just makes me even more angry. I feel like if he can't even consider my feelings when I am laying in bed beside him, what would make him consider my feelings when we are not together? Another trust inhibitor!<P>Can anyone spead some insight on if the need for sex is that strong that he has NO regard for my feelings and my hurt? Am I over-reacting with this?<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Shoni:<P>Your husband was "good" in that he discussed these issues. He filled your need for this information. It's also possible that he remembered the "excitement" for the affair, and that he wanted YOU at this point to share in this.<P>And he probably didn't have a clue as to how you were feeling. Insensitive? Maybe. On purpose? Definitely not.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He just got done, describing in detail, him being with some other woman. Then he thinks I should offer him sexual pleasures? DON'T THINK SO!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why not? Is it because you're angry and punishing him?? Then that's the wrong reason, and it will make the rebuilding process harder. If it's because it was hard for you to hear this, and you needed some time to digest it, then you should have told him that.<P>Don't get me wrong. I know why you're so angry. I'm asking you to examine your behavior and see if it will make your marriage better---better for the both of you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>he asked me for a sexual favor, which was ONLY for his pleasure<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What better time then this to introduce your husband to the POJA... what would YOU have wanted?

My H did the same thing with me.....strange, huh? Of course I immediately assumed that rehashing all of their sexual activity must have excited him in some way and I was totally turned off. I also refused and he was apologetic but really didn't understand my position. <P>Maybe it's just a "man" thing!?! There are still some things sexually that I will not do because of their experiences, but hopefully that will pass with time.<P>Sorry I can't offer advice, but wanted to let you know you are not alone. Maybe some of the men on the BB could help us understand.

Shoni, <P>It is stories like this that make me think I am missing some male enzyme in my anatomy. Why do some guys act that way? After an evening that you went through, I would never think of approaching my W for sex. In my mind, he should have offered to hold you or give you a bunch of NON-SEXUAL touch. <P>I wish I could give you more insight on this uncaring need for male sexual gratification. Maybe I am missing some enzyme or something. My need for physical intimacy centers around giving to my wife. Her needs are my focus. <P>One suggestion that my W and I are doing to get our physical relationship in sync again after this horrible ordeal is to have a planned night. We started at once a month and are now at every other week. In time I hope our frequency will continue to increase, but I certainly am not going to push it. What that does us is to take the pressure off of both of us. Nobody is disappointed or feels rejected. Plus, it allows me to show her how much I love her by giving her lots of non-sexual touching without her thinking I'm pushing for sex. <P>Perhaps you and your H could do the same thing. He needs to know you need lots of affection without it leading to sex. <P>As for not caring for your feelings, perhaps a 2 by 4 to the side of the head is in order. <P>God bless, <P>SHA

K,<P>It wasn't about punishing him. It was that I couldn't even stand to kiss him without invisioning him with OW. I just was not mentally "there".<P>I do believe he knew how I was feeling. He was the one that made the statement "You are not going to sleep tonight, are you?" Maybe he did not understand the depths of it, I don't know. But I was laying there crying when he turned over and asked me.<P>At that point, what I wanted was to run away. I wanted to be alone, to cry, to feel my pain, to feel my anger. I just wanted to go to sleep so I could quit thinking about what he did.<P>Yes, he gave me what I asked for. For that I am thankful and hold no anger at him because of answers that he gave me. (alot of hurt though) I am just angry/hurt that he seems to think of himself WAY MORE than he thinks about me.

I've got that 2x4 right here SHA!!! As a matter of fact I ordered a whole bunch of them specifically for the "clueless" spouses some are dealing with - right Shoni??? LOL!!<P>Seriously, I think that your H, when finally telling you all this, was in a state of intimacy with just talking so honestly and openly. Some people, men especially feel that sexual gratification goes along with this kind of intimacy.<P>I think that is where his thinking was. I agree with K that you can open your way of thinking to understand the whys of his actions or communications with you.<P>You already know that his background is not of the demonstrative emotional or affectionate sort. Just try to keep that in mind and not expect exactly what you think his response should be or else you get angry or hurt. His brain is his and yours is yours. Add that to male and female thinking is usually different and that can explain a lot!!<P>Like K said, you have to be explicit with your feelings. He cannot read your mind, and being that he's not knowledgeable in the romantic arts - he must be led through it by you for a while for some practice. <P>Didn't he just give you a little sample of what he's learning with the gum!! (smiley face)!!!!! how about the poem he left for you!!!! He's learning and that means he's open - teach him but do it without lovebusters. There's no need for them!! He's actually doing very well - my Gosh, Shoni - he told you all you wanted to know!! <P>You just have to remember that he was able to do those things and talk to you so honestly because he feels safe!! That is wonderful and you don't want to push it back down inside of him by getting mad or disappointed when he makes these attempts.<P>You two are growing so much!!!! YAY!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

zombie,<P>I am shocked to hear this has happened to someone else! What do some guys think anyway!<P>I don't think he was turned on thinking about OW. He told me even that night, he really didn't want to be with her anymore. He justed didn't have the balls to get up and go home like he should've! Plus, they really didn't do anything sexual.<P>Sir Hurts Alot,<P>If you are missing something, be darn glad you don't have it!!! I think it's wonderful that you put your wife's feelings first.<P>Sex normally isn't a problem for us. We have sex quite often and is usually mutually enjoyable. I was just very offended by his timing and selfishness. I do not have a problem giving him "sexual pleasures" without getting anything in return, but not when I am laying there crying, thinking about him cheating on me. I need to feel close to him, to take part in sex with him. That night, I felt distanced thinking about his affair.<P>Thanks for the support for all of you!<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Shoni -<P>You posted as I did!!!!<P>Yes, I understand completely what you are saying - because of two reasons:<P>1) I am knowledgeable in the romantic arts<BR>2) I am a woman<P>H understood this:<P>1) You wanted honest answers to your questions to feel closer to him<BR>2) He wanted to tell you and knew that they would hurt you, but did anyway cuz you wanted it so much.<BR>3) Realized that you wouldn't sleep and wanted to feel close again with sex.<P>The two don't exactly match up perfectly but there is logic and caring to his mindset!<P>you needed answers - he took a chance and gave them : Your reaction is normal but he might think that "Why does she want these answers that will hurt her?".<BR>That is sorta confusing if you just look at it in black and white, isn't it?<P>Why did you want these answers? Was it for the honesty and openness or for the gory little details to be able to ponder and relive with? He thinks it was the first reason - is it?<P>Does this help you understand? <BR>

Stop posting at the same time!!! LOL!!<BR>

I think only ONE person should be allowed to be posting at a time, because this gets very confusing!!!LOL<P>Sheba, dear, who's side are you on anyway? Husbands or Mine? (you know I'm kidding)<P>Okay, my problem with the "closeness" idea is this: If he wanted to be close, then shouldn't he have wanted to make love to me? Instead he asks for something that he could've easily went in the bathroom and done himself. (sorry if that's too much detail)<P>I wanted the answers so that I could quit playing the questions over and over in my mind. I don't think H is consiously able to think I was asking to feel closer to him. I don't even know if I was doing it for that reason. But it wasn't to relive it, it was to put it behind me. I hate to say this, BUT, I am a snoopy person. I like to know things, even things that really don't make any difference if I know or not. And things bug me until I know. So I have these questions like did you hold her hand. Quite minor, but I have wondered that day after day after day. The only way for me to stop wondering and therefore stop having things to think about related to the affair is for me to ask. So I did.<P>Yes, Sheba, he is learning. He is doing great. But I think this was beyond being insensitive. Maybe we do need to sit down and discuss why he asked.<P>All right, now it is your turn! I hope you haven't already posted!!! <P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Hey! You did post while I was posting! And you are telling me to "Stop it"?

Shoni,<P>I'm w/SHA on this one. I just don't get it. Since my W had her affair seven months ago we have not been intimate a single time. Not because i don't want to, but because i've respected her need to do some healing. I haven't even asked. I figure if she's ready, she'll let me know. Now, i do tend to agree with Harley when he says it's at or near the top of the list for us guys, but there's a time and a place. I'd say give your H the benefit of the doubt this time, but explain to him that the way to great sex with you begins with love and understanding. Experience the intimacy first and the act will follow. Good luck and God bless.

nlitend, <P>So, your missing that "no regards for your wife's feelings" enzyme too. Keep doing what you're doing - the physical intimacy WILL come. She will tell you (in her own way that you know) when it's the right time. <P>Hang in there. <P>SHA

Shoni -<P>Sides? Bad Girl!!!!! <P>Closeness - I only think that could be how he feels and could definitely be wrong cuz I don't have ..um..er..one of "those" and don't know what "it" needs!! or how "its" owner thinks!! LOL!!<P>I am like you in the respect that I like to know all aspects of situations (not physical stuff - more of H's feelings and emotions concerning the others) so I know why you asked. Just wanted to point out that maybe he thought that you were ready for the answers and that they would not effect you so much because of the closeness you two have had lately.<P>If there is still tenseness with you two then you should definitely discuss what occurred with BOTH of your thinking and feelings. It can be a good example of how to be open and honest and not let things fester into resentments.<P>Just do it lovingly and together!! Not accusatory and defensive, if you know what I mean!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<BR>

Shoni,<BR>I think your reaction was totally appropriate. I know at the beginning when my W and I would discuss her affair the last thing on my mind was being intimate. Much less a one sided act. I think your H was showing his selfishness, and being extremely insensitive to what you are going through. Sometimes I think the betrayers will never quite understand the depth of our pain. I understand the lovebuster stuff, however it has to be intertwined with the POJA and you should not have to do things which make you uncomfortable.