Probably for the best then, 41. As I see it, you weren't open to doing any self examination when you came here. You had already held court on your wife/marriage and doubled as judge and jury, you simply wanted validation from us of your pre-determined sentence of divorce.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forty-One wrote: you women are BRUTAL</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you might want to re-read 41, not all the posters that offered you, what you might deem invaluable advice, were female. There were a few males as well that did not validate you.

Best of luck and God Bless,
Jo

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

41,

This may be a Freudian slip, but after the way you have posted lately, I wonder?

[QUOTE] PLEASE dont any of you answer personal ads where the guy's a non smoker, non drinker looking for a stable woman, I dont think many of you will cut it...I'll be preying for you all too. [QUOTE]

LMAO Bangarra, good catch Hon!

41:
I was going to post to you, but find it interrupted by yet another sarcastic & defensive post by someone who hasn't even posted before.....?????
KaylaAndy:
What sheer venom is this that you express?
qhote:
_______________________________________________________________________________-

But A MAN who's EVERY other WORD is SHOUTED, even IN a DIGITAL world TELLS something ABOUT his OWN character OFF the BOARD! I CALL it BARELY contained RAGE! And SHE gets IT too! No WONDER she's CONTROLLING, running, ESCAPING, and CRAZY! Barbara DeANGELES calls It TANKING! And THIS man IS an EXPERT at TANKING!

________________________________________________________________________________-

...this is rare and conclusive stuff, no doubt. ( since sarc seems to be the rule here, I won't be the exception )
Whatever happened to balance?

quote:
________________________________________________________________________________
e. Co-miserate with me, but don't you dare talk to me about "a"; don't bring it up, don't refer to "a", because IT'S NOT MY FAULT. IT'S ALL HIS/HERS AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT HOW I NEED TO CHANGE, BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE I'M AN ANGRY, DEMANDING JERK WHO DOESN'T WANT TO LEARN A FIG ABOUT MARRIAGE BUILDER PRINCIPLES, I WANT VALIDATION TO STAY IN MY BELIEFS AND DESTROY EVERYTHING, but especially it has to be confirmed by EVERYONE who responds to me that it's all his/her fault, and that I'm off the hook...

So which extreme do you think fortyone has been expressing in his thread and all his retaliatory responses? He doesn't want to be happy. He wants to be right. And there are too many people here who have also been married to crazies, who realized there was plenty of work to do on themselves before they wrote off their marriage so easily, and they're the ones ticking him off the most.

_________________________________________________________________________
...let's add insulting, & presumptive to the list (getting close to cursing as well )
as to retaliatory responses, I think 41 has been extremely restrained.
I'd be just a little ticked off if this response was to me, as 41. Who says he's written off his marriage? He's just at the end of his tether. This is how frustrated he is, given the current situation.
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a final thought. Before you buy into the schtick about living with a crazy spouse, go see "A Beautiful Mind", and then try to counsel Alicia Nash that fortyone has it worse than her.
_______________________________________________________________________-
..I've seen it. Great movie, isn't it? Great love story as well. Now where was it said 41 has it worse than Alicia Nash?

quote:
_______________________________________________________________________
what kind of tips were you looking for that you haven't gotten? You've totally ignored the ones you've been given so far... Oh - but those were geared to you saving your marriage. Looks like we missed what you were looking for here on MARRIAGE BUILDERS.
_________________________________________________________________________
...hopefully not this kind of sarc., I would think.
quote:
__________________________________________________________________________-
No woman could survive your physical presence and remain sane. The evidence is here, with every woman who has tried to help you see the truth about relationships. You still don't have a clue.
__________________________________________________________________________
..............are you psychic? or do you just have a special gift. ( with the exception of sarcasm and insult, which is now clearly established)
Finally, to kaylaAndy:
No-one "buys" into anything here. However, just as many have been victimized by abusive male spouses, the reverse is also true. 41 has made the fatal mistake of being honest on this board; revealing his most intimate thoughts. How many of us haven't had "murderous" thoughts about our partners at some time? How many haven't actually said horribly insulting and despicable things in the heat of argument? I think of course, that he has struck a nerve with the "fat" thing. He'll probably get the same for his remark about the "brand of Christian" remark as well.
There's an old saying:
.."if the shoe fits, by all means wear it...."
Be interesting to see who wants to try that on.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Oh, BTW, there's a post on LORA's thread on mutual attraction by a member who confesses to an EA while married, who also confesses that she did counselling while "switched off", and that her husband "woke up too late" after years of her "working on it" without success. Perhaps you want to post there, sometime.
41:
I'll post again, sometime. Right now, I'm tired of typing, and copy-pasting.
I would continue to do the things you have been doing up to now: the outings with the kids, the custom cars, all that good stuff for your sanity. Your allowing your wife to go away, without licence to do the same, is just causing your resentment to build. If you feel that strongly about it, and if she doesn't hear what you are saying, just make the plans and GO! It's OK to be firm, and you won't please everybody all the time. Thorned Rose & Gentle have also alluded to this. When you have sufficiently made some space for yourself by exercising your will in this way, some of your anger will dissipate, since some of it is due to your anger at yourself for allowing things to get this far out of hand, would be my guess.

If you continue this doormat behaviour, guess what? A few more muddy boots will be wiped off on your bristles, OK? Imagine your face as a welcome mat with the logo emblazened: "ALL TAKERS WELCOME- STOMP & WIPE HERE" Get it?

Good luck, and I would continue with IC if I were you. Find a good one. You obviously can't totally rely on support from this board.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

muzohead

41,

I am not sure if you read my second post or not , it is on page two. It may have got lost in all this. If you haven't read it go back and read.

My respond to you have been different because I was a lot like your wife is now. I had marriage and relationships all wrong. By the number of divorces, I believe most of us have it wrong. Once God showed me what I had done to my husband things made much more sense. Your wife doesn't even realize she is this way. It doesn't matter if you tell her or not. She has to learn this herself, just as I did.

I am sure there are many women that would disagree with me, but I do believe that this world has lied to women so much and we have gotten away from God's plan so much,that we have became very hard on men. God created us equal but,He also created us different. It doesn't take much to figure this out. We look different, we think different, and we react different. God did this for a reason. He doesn't make mistakes. So, if He made us different then we must have different roles. The problem is that woman have taken on a lot of men's roles and men have taken on a lot of women's roles. We both are wanting things from each other that we were not created to do. Anway, it has really caused a lot of marriages to be unhappy.Both husband and wife have play their part in a marriage gone bad.

Please Ladies, don't come back with a bunch of womens right stuff. I don't believe women should be second class citizens. I am saying God is not concerned about our rights, men's or women's. He is concerned about our hearts and us following His plans. These are things God has taught me. I am grateful for this. It has changed me and freed me to become the wife , mother, and women he created me to be. I am aware many do not agree and you would waste your time writing. I will not go against what God has shown me.

I am here to tell 41 that I understand how he feels becasue I treated my husband a lot like she is treating him. I alos know how his wife feels because I was like her.It is a sad situation and I would like to see them have a better marriage.

41, I know you have a bad taste in your mouth,` so to say, for so called Christians. I use to feel the same you do. Know I pray for those that say they are Christian but don't act very Christ like. I leave them to God and work on my realtionship with Him. You only have to answer for your walk, no one elses.I know you are not happy.I also know your marriage can change. Work on your relationship with God and leave your wife to God. When she sees the Christ in you, it will help her to become more Christ like. It really does wrong. I am living proof.You can talk to her to you are blue in the face and it will not change anything. Only God can work on her and your marriage.

Of course, there was a time when men were very hard on women. Neither one of us have treated each other like God wants us to treat each other.Yes, I do notice that men can post about something and get beat down for it while at the same time a woman can post about the same thing and gets a lot of support.It seems to be the way life is right now. It isn't right ,but neither was women not getting to vote. It is not about two wrongs making a right. It just means we don't live like God intend us to.Life isn't fair, but God never said it would be.

We can only work on how we treat others. Let God do the rest.You just follow the principles He has for husbands and He will take care of the rest as, long as you trust Him with all of it.Yes, I agree your wife should spend more time with her husband and children. That is our first ministry God has given us. But, again you cannot make your wife see this. God can and that is who you need to turn to.

Please realize that there are changes God needs to do in you also. Another marriage isn't the answer. Work on the one you have. You know how divorce just makes things worse for the children and everyone else. Why would you want this for your children? It can be better but, you are going to have to decide to change things. I decided to do it God's way and my relationship with my husband has gotten much better than it was before he left. God has also been changing my husband. He did things wrong also, but that is between him and God.It does take time and most of us want everything fix now.Good things are worth waiting for. I am at peace with who I am today. I want to be a good wife and mother and that is what God and I are working on. I am happy with that. Five years ago NONE of this would be coming from me.

gentle

<small>[ March 13, 2003, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

41,

I understand fully what 41 trying to tell us. Most of what he said in here are 90% like what I want to said to myself. (my divoice final soon, as the Decree Nisi prononuced in Court 03 March of 03)

My ex is an alcoholic, no work...an European I have been take care of him for 4 years, I am an Asian and live in Hong Knog. However, what I get from him???? NOTHING, BUT - one day he told me, I have another woman - at once, I filed for divoice .

Suddently, I notic this is a big joke to me. I believe LOVE so so much. I don't care he don't have money, I don't care he is an Acoholic...I believe he come to here (I brought him a tikcet from Europe to Asia) for me only.....I have my own business and running it for 7 years...what I want to say is same as 41, I am very happy for myself as I am non smoker, not drinking, out going, happy person. Why should I have to DEAL
with person like this??? I am 39 years old only. (Why 41 need to deal with his wife if his wife really like what he said??)

Might be, 41 is wrong to make the ad. here, but whynot if it just for fun. Of course, I think 41 still not sure he want to divoice his wife or not, but what he want to TELL on the ad was "he just a normal good man want to have normal lover, or wife..or so." Is that right 41?

Just let 41 relax himself here and said what he want. He didn't hurt anybody. In fact, I think 41 has all the answers in his head.

Gloria

chui_gloria@yahoo.com.hk
Divoice should final in April

Gloria, thanks for your kind words, i'm so sorry you got stuck in a bad relationship, i can relate to your thoughts about your love and feelings, I trusted and respected both my wives to the end of the earth, and i bent over backwards to please them and provide them a loving, stable home, i work hard like you do, and i had high hopes for success as a business owner as I see you do, I build custom cars, and i;m good at what I do, and my skill is in great demand, but it takes sacrafice to take the leap into self employment, and I got NO support from either of my wives on that front either, at one time I was very confident i could be a very successfull person, but all their problems, issues and lack of support to my ideas has left me doubting my self, and i'm having trouble regaining my confidence, i'm trying.... I wish i really did have all the right answers, but sadly i dont, i take life one day at a time and I look for the bright spots so some day when I look back on my life I dont see all dark clouds. I love my 3 kids with all my heart, and I wanted so bad to be successfull so I could give them ANd my wife everything they ever wanted,but it seems with their mental issues they cound'nt focus on anything but getting themselves through a day.I feel sad for them, but i feel like GOD is some how pointing my efforts to preserving my self and my dream, I'm really feeling my age these days, and i'm feeling the mental strain of dealing with a person who cant get her act together and work with me to bring peace to our lives. 2 of my kids are teens now, and soon they will push my financial means to its limits with college bills, this will now doubt push my wife's mental issues to new heights,and i dont know which strain will be worse, ME WORKING a second job to pay for it all or her *****ing about it. So as i said, one day at a time, right? SO Gloria, wave goodby to your alcholic husband and all the problems he brought to your life and wait for a better man to come along, or better yet place your own personal ad and SHOP for a good catch, and accept nothing less, trust me, IF my marriage ends the next woman will almost have to have SAINT status for me to marry her, or at least she will have to have more to lose than I do!! One final thought for you, Gloria, I know a few alcholics, and they use their illness to play on your heart strings, they promise to change and stop drinking and clean up, BEWARE, they usually dont, IF you THINK he may turn around, make him DO IT FIRST, and then you'll THINK about taking him back, If his heart is true for you he will not return untill he's right, but usually this is too much for them and they do nothing, dont waste your life and love on someone who refuses to put down a bottle, you deserve better.Good luck, 41.

To resilient and bangara, SORRY, I'm not a great speller, I did mean that i would PRAY for all of you, i notice you both claim to have been abused by a man, i'm very sorry this happened to you, I hold the highest respect for all women, even the ones that dont agree with or like my opinions, ;], AND, i think ANY MAN that does that should be hung by his male parts, thats just plain wrong, TRUST ME, my first wife was verbally AND physically abusive to me, and I've had EVERY small houshold appliance thrown at me, and i never once raised a hand to her,not even to defend my self. Let me pass on an interesting fact about WOMEN attacking men, in my state, IF I HAD called the police on my wife for abusing me, the cops would have removed ME from my home, even though I WAS NOT the agressor,REALLY!! Its also another well documented fact that 50% of ABUSED MEN dont report it because their too embarrased to OR they fear being removed from their home by false alligations of spousal abuse, cops and judges tend to think the MAN is ALWAYS wrong,and it usually takes 3 mos to see a court date to PROVE he was right, sound like a fair trade?? BY THEN, since he was LOCKED out of his house, all is personal posessions have been destroyed, sold or pissed on and now he has nothing. SOME WOMEN really are BRUTAL when they dont get their way. I really believe the true TEST of a supposed abusive man is after he marrys another woman, IF he beats his second wife, he's really an abuser, IF he dont, MAYBE his first wife pushed too many buttons, it happens, its WRONG, but some guys have problems with being verbally abused... GOOD THING I dont!!!

Thanks 41. But I must say, my ex-husband never laid a hand on me, he was never physically abusive.

He did, however, have a problem with keeping his private parts solely in the marriage and shared his sperm freely in attempt to populate our local city .... a result being shared STDs causing cancer, illegitimate children, with the third-party females involved taking their hatred of him, out on me, resulting in anti-harassment orders filed.

Anyhooo, I guess you could call that emotional abuse at it's finest, no?

So you see 41, it's not just a specific sex (male or female) in the marriage that can wrong the other, it's the character and morals, or lack thereof, of that husband or wife.

Best,
Jo

<small>[ March 13, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

hi 41,

Again, what you said on the reply just like what I expected. I mean I know you will understand what I am going to tell you. As both of you and I are business person. I believe what we "think" is not same as others. As you said, we need sacrafice to get what we want, such as sacrafice our time, our feeling or live sometimes. But it sounds like no one understand this. Running business is my own chose, I enjoy it so far. I never blame anyone. What I need is SUPPORT. If I don't have "Acholic hunsband", might be, I will be have more successful. Sadly, my X also a businessman. He was my customer since 1991. He is 52 years old. His business start when he was 25 years old. But time is changing. It's so easy to have business in that gernaration. BUT NOT NOW.

I believe God, but not that much like you or the others. Sorry to said at this moment I believe myself more. Actually, if I were you, I will set a "limit" or "bottom line" to myself. What's your "limit"? How long? or What more? you going to take from your wife or "their problem". I understand you want to give the best to your 3 kits, you scare sometimes, if those problems keep bothering you, might be you cannot make business or you might loss the chance or you will get out of the market. This is what i am scare when my x start to drink and I need to take care of him after work, bring him to hospital, pay his bill in the bar....etc. Too many things happen when he start to drink. Once he even stole my money then brought the ticket, went to Thailand for a week without telling me. He got really drunk out there in the hotel....no money very soon and people want him out of the hotel. THEN the worse part come - he call my Thailand customer and asked him for money!!! - As a business person, you under how bad I feel. Specially, I need to went there to bring him back to Hong Kong. Anyway, it's too many to tell. But sometimes, I even think it's all past, and nothing to think about anyway.

So, don't be scare or loss confident. Because
nobody give you the feeling of confident or scare but yourself. If the days going ok, your confident will be back. If you have your own time to "think", your confident also will be back. No one can beat us as at all, what we have is "we have brain" Am I right 41? Keep strong and show what you really are to yourself.

I understand the acohlic more now, I been to a lot of website about acholic and the people there are really good and helpfull. Yes, you are right, my x use his illness to play on my heart strings....he promise to change...crying, begging...all these stuffs really killing me. But after a while, drink again. It's no need to "THINK" taking him back. I asked him to leave my home since April 02.....very long story, I feel sick and tired to talk about this sometimes. Anyway, last month 27 of Feb., I asked my lawyer send him a latter. "He is not allow to come to my home when he drunk. If he do it again, I will ask a "court order". You can see what he done.

Strange, he just call me (11:35am)now and ask am I okay??!!He is nice guy when he is in clear mind. Sadly, it's not always happen.

Ok, I think I talk too much and the people here they don't like what we are saying. We have follow the rule here "just talk about how to fix the marriage problem or get back to marriage"

So, if you want to talk more..about business :-) or might be, about the personal ad....stuff :-)you are welcome to write me an email. Good luck to you too.

Gloria
chui_gloria@yahoo.com.hk

fourty1
I dont want to abandon this woman and crush her.I CARE about her, but I'm real confused.

~~~~~~~~
my best friend is in a very similar situation, i give you credit for trying to keep it together...but at some point you become a martyr.

you DO need to try and talk sanley to your W...make the attempt, and tell her how badly you are hurting. if she wont talk, and you feel you have tried everything then i suggest escape, have you discussed seperation?

if she ubderstands you mean to divorce her over her behaviors mebbe...just mebbe she will attempt to change, we all know how that goes usually tho..change for a short time , then backsliding into the old behaviors.

i might suggest you get a camcorder, and tape some of her verbal abuses for use in court, it may help you get the kids:) a picture says a thousand words.

if others in your family see this abuse and cant understand why you stay its probably because they SEE you going crazy! and of course they care about you.

you are certainly not alone in wanting to *do the right thing* for your children , many here choose to...but at what cost to you?

im glad you have a plan it will keep you sane..probably, but really do try to tell W how you feel if you havent alrady tried to, it might make this limbo inbetween more bearable? or it might just make things more clear to you ...her responce.

i have one question about what i cut and pasted .

why is it OK fer her to crush YOU? she will survive. 41 isnt too old to start a new busines if you can get the resources together...DO live your dream, life is short!

we are promised no tommorrows.

Oooh and you might add to the add...

REFUSES TO BE ANYONES DOORMAT!

just to be sure you get the right kind of responses LOL!

Soul mate 11, Thanks for the reply, i ask my self all the time how much longer can i live like this, my wife seem to know how to push me to the edge and pulls back just as i reach my limit, I've been much more verbal about my displeasure with her moods and attitude in the past,but I've taken on a "live and let live", mello attitude, I just stay focused on better days,I take all the good things she has to offer, and i play off the bad stuff, what else can you do? I've totally re-focused my life, i stopped working on remodeling my house, she has no pride in our home and its a Chinese firedrill, everywhere you look, clutter, she's no housekeeper. I've read a lot about mentall illness, and symptoms, cause and effect, and she's a textbook case,Up, DOWN, up, down...,look out when she's down. I spend a lot more time with my kids, my older kids see her strange behavior, and question it often, its come to the point where i cant play it down or make excuses, They dont understand it and end up engaging in her petty arguments,todays kids tend to say whats on their minds, and i've explained to them to the best of my abilities her mental state, and I try to make them understand they will win FEW arguments with her because of her condition, but kids are kids and its not always good. never a dull moment . I cant blame them for being so confused, who wouldn't be.

Oh great...

MB is now being used for a dating service. Hey guys, there are plenty of those on-line. This is a site for marriage-building and helping those who could not save their marriages try to cope. If you want to come here and vent and are interested in changing yourselves to help heal your messages then welcome, if you're trolling...move on.

allison

Oh great...

MB is now being used for a dating service. Hey guys, there are plenty of those on-line. This is a site for marriage-building and helping those who could not save their marriages try to cope. If you want to come here and vent and are interested in changing yourselves to help heal your messages then welcome, if you're trolling...move on.

allison

allison he was just kidding with the add Geeez! he is in the divorced divorcing folder now isnt he?

he came here more than anything to get an ear and some understanding...and mebbe a little compassion. most people here are pretty good at that having *been there done that* not everyones marriage is saveable, but i would like to think this can be a place of empathy too, i certainly recieved my fair share.

Soulmate....you ignorant slut

In reading your mega-thread I'd like to ask you something? What on earth are you doing giving advice here? You are not married...you are carrying on with a married man...

Whatshisname here who is so dissapointed with his life really does not need the likes of you telling him that it's ok to come here and troll. This is pretty serious stuff here on MB. He is angry and needs some serious help.

Soulmate (gag) you are probably used to chat rooms and message boards that are just fun, fun, fun...whatever goes! If you'll do a bit more reading here, this tends to be a pretty serious kinda place. People come here baring their souls, a lot of us just want to die, or felt like that at one time.

Be careful Soulmate...in your goofball relationship with a married man, and here, on these boards.

allison

I believe calling someone a slut is more of the thing I see on chat rooms. When we are trying to correct someone, it is important not to do it by talking in the manner we are accusing them of doing.Maybe even talking worse than them.

gentle

<small>[ March 18, 2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

Soulmate....you ignorant slut
you call ME ignorant? this makes you truly obtuse, you have not even read my thread...
~~~~~
In reading your mega-thread I'd like to ask you something? What on earth are you doing giving advice here? You are not married...you are carrying on with a married man...

~~~~~~
you have NOT read my thread...you have decided to judge me based on WHAT? its YOU who have no place here...YOU who have a small mind!
i would not want you here if i was hurting...not for me.

~~~~~~~
likes of me ? you do not know me and you have OBVIOUSLY selectivley read my thread ...OR you are amongst those who condemmed me to the OW role ...so be it BUT swallow your bile...its not needed here, and YES i have been married...read my thread?? i guess you sre too busy assuming:) ok by me ..but dont you DARE judge or flame me ...and i will NOT call you names , im bigger than that:)

and i will reply as i feel fit to as you so obviously feel equipped to even in your violent state....have a great night...i hope you wake up happier....

OOoh and my friend is dong fine:)

gentle thank you:)

they should really READ my *mega thread * before judging me a slut LOL!

but i have seen this before her...thin skinned , judgmental people...i know there is hurt here, but there are better things to than sling mud and profanities.

i will not sink to this level. read my *mega thread* and then judge ...till then get some sleep and please throw your mud at the deserving:)

i will continue to read and post as freely as anyone else here...i have been there done that and i have some good insights.

read them or delete them...much the same as changing the channel...its called free speach and free will!

thank you for at least telling them where the word *slut * belongs...not here