It is now Friday. After no-contact letter, and no response since Monday, she's phoned me to ask if I can drop my sons at her friend's house ( she will go there directly from work ).

I bought some time by saying I would call her later to let her know..10 points hey!!!

I'm thinking that if I do, then I have to go in, and at least greet.(they were our closest couple friends in our M). The husband, lets call him X, will usually pursuade me to stay for a drink, so that will be difficult to escape. If I refuse his hospitality, it will embarrass my exW. (should I care?)
The wife, let's call her Y, has been openly critical of her friend for "stepping over the line" in our M. She's a dear friend. Y & I are actually closer than X & I, and if both of them nag me to stay, well...., I'm afraid that will be the end of it. The last time I was hard-pressed to leave under similar circumstances, X asked me: "...why? Do you have hot DATE to go to...?" I didn't, and was tongue-tied for a moment, not knowing what to say. X tries in his own way to try to make me make my exW jealous, by having this really swinging single life, or at least pretending to have it.
My other reason for not doing it, is the thought that as I'm pulling up to my friends' house, OM will be there, having brought the exW. (she's taken her other OM to their place as well). I don't think I would be able to think rationally & clearly should this happen. He's invaded SO much of my space already, I totally resent even the sight of him, and would not want to embarrass my friends by ignoring him, since they obviously will be socially polite & conversational with him. They have been DARLINGS throughout our whole sordid mess, and I cannot do anything which would make them think any less of me, or which would insult them for being "nice" to him. I could always call up X and ask him if OM would be there, maybe I should. After the last time that I ignored OM, I wouldn't put it past my exW to have him there, just to see my reaction, or for a little revenge, or even just entertainment.
If I don't do it at all, however, I avoid all of the above, and force exW & OM to pick up kids. ( long detour ). This inconveniences OM, which is good, screw him! However, it means kids travel with OM. I suppose I should get used to the fact that the boys will relate to OM at least while he's around; all I know is, I would be pissed if I grew up and realised that mommy's BF was a lying cheating SOB who was sleeping with her, and had a family of his own, while I chatted & cracked jokes with him. In reality, though, I can't prevent this from happening.
So there. What to do? I'm going to have to call or message her to respond soon.
Please any ideas, or just VOTE, YAY, or NAY. If YAY, please briefly state why.

Thanks
muzohead

Muzohead - OK - well I don't really no what to say - But lets see here - If you do this are you helping her or helping your children??? Would she help you if the role was reversed??? Do you want to do her favors in the future or do you want her to make it on her own??? - If you answered yes to helping her, no you don't want to do her favors - or yes you want her to do it on her own - then just simply say - No you know what I have plans I am sorry that I won't be able to help you out...or then why couldn't you just drop them off and have them tell the couple that you were in a rush to go somewhere and sorry but you couldn't stay and chat??? I wouldn't go in if you do drop them off and put yourself in the position of having to see the wife and the other man... that will only make you upset... Then again - you gave the no contact letter - Do you feel you really need to stick by it??? I mean like you said there are alot of yay, nays etc... But I guess it boils down to - Is it in the best interest of your children for you to go and pick them up and bring them to her friends house for her???? Or is it just easier for her - and if it is just easier for her - is it really necessary for you to do it... ?????

Muzo,

I can summarize what maw64 said:

If it's BEST for the children...then maybe. Otherwise: NO!!

I'll repeat that: NO!

"I'm sorry, I am not available to do that" will work fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

CJ

If I + X + Y + D = <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> then G, else if I = <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> then S, assuming Ex = NULL

IOW, I vote do NOT go.

Legend:
I = MuzoHead
D = Daughter
Ex = Ex-wife
X = Husband Friend
Y = wife Friend
G = Go
S = Don't Go

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I don't understand why you are making this to be such a major problem. If you don't want to do something that is being requested than just say "NO,I am running late". It is really no one's business why or where you are going. You shouldn't have to explain your reasons or actions. My vote is to tell your wife that you are too busy to take the children over to this friend's home and that it is up to her to make arrangements to pick up the kids. It is time you stopped catering to your wife. She chose the OM. Let him do the work. Just remind her that you are no longer her husband and do not want to be friends with her. Maybe you need to take a course in learning how to assert yourself.

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>

Tomaz:
Of course you're right,
I DO need some course, or counselling re. this problem of mine. My exW has very successfully in the past learnt how to "browbeat" me into doing stuff her way, even in the M. Any resistance to her way would be met with vicious abusive outbursts, which I just learnt to avoid, for peace. So you could say I have conflict-avoidance issues.

Anyway, I did say "NO", and then I got the phone-call, 1st begging, then eventually the ugliest verbal abuse.

At 8.15PM, I got a phone-call from the kids, saying mom was not yet home, no, they had not yet had supper, and the power for the plugs tripped, so no TV or PC. (youngest made some tea, when this happened)
Anyhow, I told them to ask the landlord to assist with getting power back on, and for them to call me if mom was very late, and they were worried. I was tempted to go there in person, but reconsidered, and thought she should take responsibility when she got home, for their discomfort & inconvenience.

At 10PM they hadn't called, and I was hesitant about calling, actually being afraid of a verbal attack from my ex, should she answer(!!). I called anyway, and she answered, and that was that.
Yeah, I'm slowly learning.

Resilient:
I like your mathematical equation! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Did you pick up how I weigh this and that, pro's & con's before deciding? I guess so. Thanks for simplifying it.

FW:
This was actually difficult:
It would have meant the kids were with their friends, and not alone,....
..but also would have made things a lot easier for exW., since I'd be handling her responsibility, and possibly enabling her time with BF, the cheater. So I just said NO, since, of course, I didn't really have to, did I?

Maw64:
We HAVE had a good understanding of flexibility concerning time with the kids, but she's been the TAKER big-time in this, since she knows I would take any time with them. She abuses it. As it turns out, she wanted me to drop them off, having arranged for them to sleep over with her friend, I'm sure, while she partied overnight, whatever.

In the end, I just decided I didn't need to do it.
Thanks for the support, guys (and gals!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

muzohead

How old are the children? I've been around here forever but don't know the story.

Are the children young enough that leaving them home until 10 pm?

Cinderella:
See by your number that indeed you have been around a while! Me too, but I started posting on the "In Recovery" board. Moved here only after separation / D.

Anyway, kids are both boys, 11 & 14yrs old.

muzohead

Yes Muzo ... I picked up on how you weighed this and that. And I, being a female, feel enormous compassion for your children, they are NUMERO UNO in this mess.

I just feel that your ex is very manipulative of you. Doing these things for HER is no longer required of you, Hon. She is a free agent now, and so are you.

What matters the most now is your 1:1 time with your sons, you and them. Your ex no longer enters into the picture, she doesn't deserve or own any of your time or services.

I know this may sound callus and cruel, but the sooner you let her go and let her fend for herself, the sooner you will heal and become a stronger MuzoHead, a stronger daddy for your sons.

Much love to you,
Jo

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Resilient:

Thanks.
BTW, I have 2 BOYS, aged 11 & 14yrs.

If you read FC's thread, you will see that my "putting my foot down" resulted in a stream of verbal abuse & other insult, and also her refusing that I speak to my sons on the phone.

She said, "tomorrow, I'm too upset now". My take is, she has vented in their presence, and doesn't want to be exposed. She thinks by tomorrow they will have forgotten, or she will have "bribed" them not be silent. Why else would she refuse? Perhaps just to punish me, somehow.

I'm calling again and insisting on speaking to them. I'll let you know how that goes.

muzohead

Muzohead - You sound like me always in a struggle not knowing what to do where the ex is concerned - I don't know about you but I have been coming to the understanding that I have codependent issues - I read a book - Codependent No More - by Melody Beattie - and it was like looking in a mirror - I have to get over the fact that it is over and I don't have to help him anymore - just like you don't either - They wanted it this way - I cannot stand the fact when someone is mad at me - it eats me up - I cannot also fathom that we have two completely different versions of our life together for the last 19 years... I don't think that she should not let you talk to your boys - I have found that it is 100% easier on me if I do not talk to my ex - at all - if I let the girls talk to him - and I don't have to deal with all of the crap that my ex slings on me... The analogy that my therapist used to me this weekend - was and I am sure you are gonna love this - You are like a coke machine - your ex keeps putting in quarters expecting to get the coke and now when he isn't getting it like before he is kicking the machine trying to get it to come out???? Sound familiar....???? I hope she let you talk to them yesterday...

I'm belatedly chiming in with this thought:

Do these mutual friends disapprove of your wife's behavior? Do they know she's going out with a married man? And they are polite to him?

I understand trying to stay out of the middle of friends' marital problems. But what about taking a moral stand? I mean, if you are completely nonjudgmental, then nothing is wrong. Where are your lines?

Yeah, I know, you can't order them to shun her or demand that they speak out against her adultery. You have no right to demand it. But they shouldn't be enabling her in the destruction of her marriage.

I would also have voted no, don't do that favor for her. She needed to deal with her own responsibilities.

muzohead, one question... you say
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After no contact letter, and no response since Monday, she's phoned me...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I missing something? Why is she contacting you at all after NO CONTACT? Did you write a "plan B" letter? If so, did you arrange for a person to be an intermediary? How is it "no contact" if she's contacting you and you're worrying about seeing not only her, but her and OP?

To me, no contact is exactly that, no contact, and in the case of kids, you need an intermediary and some specific boundaries about contact that must occur, for example, in emergencies. You don't need to do her any favors... that's my NSHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .