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I was seperated from my EX and friends had been telling me for years that they had seen my WW out with other guys. I didnt believe it, because I knew her...at least I thought. Well, I finally found out she had at least on affair....ya know what??? I COULD NOT forgive her....all the love I had for her went out the door immediatly. I knew I could never, ever, ever trust her again...period! No matter what she said or showed....I just knew I could never trust her again. We had problems in our marriage, but as far as I was concerned she went to the next LEVEL!!! Why can some forgive and get over something this major, and other as myself just can't??? Any how I divorced her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I dont feel bad at all about it either. Its like it was the thing to do....and I got this huge weight off of my shoulders. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ April 25, 2003, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: ITSOVER ]</small>

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I don't understand the question. Are you looking for approval?
If the weight has been lifted, you know you did the right thing, what do you need now?
Do you want to forgive her? Do you want to stop being angry at her?
Find empathy. Pray for God to help you and he will. Pray everytime you get a twinge. Pray for her. Send her goodness. This is what I did.
God found his revenge on OW and H and blessed me.
It's hard at first, but start the habbit and you will see a difference. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Aly

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I guess all the above Aly......I mean I feel sad about the loss of all the years (marriage), but I allowed the divorce to go through without a fight....because I knew I couldnt trust her WW again. I guess Im asking really, how do people learn to STAY with someone who cheated on them and forgive??? I could not do it. I dont mean now, I mean to stay together and NOT divorce??

Thanks in advance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ April 25, 2003, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: ITSOVER ]</small>

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Some people are able to go "I forgive them" and then push it out of their minds. It's a character trait they have.

For others of us, forgiveness occurs each and every single time we remember something painful. With time, we'll be able to put it all into a "greater context" of: THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED as opposed to THIS IS WHAT MY X DID TO ME.

Good luck.

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Hi ITSOVER,
You replied to one of my posts the other day so I'd like to return the favor. You said:
"I guess I'm asking really, how do people learn to STAY with someone who cheated on them and forgive???" In my case, I had treated my W pretty badly leading up to her EA, so I felt I contributed to producing an environment in which she was susceptible to an OM who complimented her and met her ENs that I wasn't meeting at the time. This doesn't justify her affair, but it helped me realize that my treatment of her was a contributing factor in it. When I realized I wasn't being a good husband for her I was in a better position to forgive her, plus she was totally repentant and has walked the straight-and-narrow ever since (5 1/2 months). Now that I am being the best husband I know how to be, including meeting her Ens, if she has another affair I am outta there because that would indicate to me she really wasn't repentant enough to change and affairs have become a lifestyle for her. My trust is lagging behind, and I find myself being hypersensitive sometimes, bt gradually things are getting better.

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ITSOVER

its depends upon your expectation of how mistakes are made, and how one should solve their problems.

I personally, make mistakes, and i hate that, and want to understand, solve and learn from the mistake so that it never happens again.

other people don't have that same level of expectation or work towards wanting to be the best s/he can be. . .

if you have expectations of yourself and others that people shouldn't make mistakes, then you have a hard time forgiving. If you have expectations that people can make mistakes and are willing to learn from them, then you can have an easier time forgiving.

If you have an expectation that people can make mistakes, but never learn from them, then you have a hard time forgiving.

I can forgive if people make mistakes and seek to learn by them, that's how progress can be made in the best learning conditions. however, if people just want to live life, make mistakes and not take responsibility or learn from it, then i don't want to have anything to do with them.

like my X.

wiftty

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If someone wrongs you and then turns around and apologizes, makes amends, and does everything possible to restore the trust, then forgiveness is something that can be done.

However, in your case (as well as mine), forgiveness is something you will have to do, sooner or later. If you don't do it at sometime, the anger will end up hurting you for no good reason.

Forgiveness doesn't (necessarily) mean you are going to be friends again or that everything is now okay between you. It simply means that you will no longer let it bother you. Again, this doesn't mean you no longer remember the pain, but it will not have the same effect on you as it did.

I mean I feel sad about the loss of all the years (marriage)
It's normal and it is something you should feel sad about as it was part of your life. But you shouldn't let it rule your emotions. This will come with time.

how do people learn to STAY with someone who cheated on them and forgive???
This comes with both people being open and honest about the what/why things happened and looking at youself and understanding how you let things get to where they did.

I could not do it.
It wouldn't be easy, but it can and has been done by many people.
You're view is skewed right now because you were never given the chance.
It's not something that "just happens." It comes with much work and lots of openess from both people.

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Man Chris!!!! I have been kinda going at it with you....and you hit the nail on the head my man....."she didnt give me the chance" That is it. Deep down that is why Im frustrated! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

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Deep down that is why Im frustrated!

Then you might have an EXTREMELY small idea of how I feel. I have seen my ex 2 times in the last 4 years. She hasn't even spoken to our 2 daughters since Jan of LAST year. We've been divorced since then and she doesn't know it. She doesn't even know I filed back in Aug 2001.

She left 4 weeks after d-day. I never got the chance to even talk with her, let alone do anything to repair the marriage.

I've said before that most of you are "lucky" enough to be able to at least yell, fight, scream with your ws. I was never given a chance to do any of that.

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Chris,
I don't know. I guess everyone is different and you don't know how you will act until you are in the position.
I thought I could. Now I see my H affair as a simptom of a bigger problem. Plus, the woman who he had the affair with, was a woman who was married and said she was my friend.
I tried to believe that he ended it when he did but I kept finding out that he was seeing her behind my back. I still don't know if it's over.
I do know this affair, and his other abusive behavior, was the reason I knew, it was time for me to file. He wasn't willing to participate in rebuilding this marriage.
I am sad. I had hope for so long.
In counseling, I realized he wasn't back for me, he was back to have his cake and eat it too.
I feel pitty for him now. When I was able to figure out, from his upbringing and his past, why he is the way he is, I found empathy. I realized he was like this before I came along. I realized I didn't see the signs when we were first together and I denied his behavior.
Someday, I hope he finally understands, for now I have to walk away.
Believe me, it hurts. But honestly, I know I'm doing the right thing.
It's taken me 3 years to get to this point.

Aly

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Now I see my H affair as a simptom of a bigger problem.
Exactly. It's a symptom of the relationship gone bad but the affair itself creates new (& bigger) problems.

I tried to believe that he ended it when he did but I kept finding out that he was seeing her behind my back.
Very rarely does it "just because."

I still don't know if it's over.
If you're not sure, then it probably isn't. If it was, you would still feel terrible but his actions would be different.

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ITSOVER,

Definately, definately, DEFINATELY listen to Chris! This man has been around since the beginning of MB time. He truly knows what he is talking about.

As for forgiveness, it comes with time. I forgave my ex for what he did, and it wasn't easy. We aren't friends, and I very rarely speak to him, but I don't feel the same pain or anger anymore.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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I know Chris is very helpful. I had no idea what he went through. That is very, very tough to deal with. My EX did the cry thing again when I dropped the kids off. We have been divorced closing in on a year and seperated for a year. It took her this long to get emotional on me?? She didnt really cry up until she found out I was engaged. What did she expect? She divorced me with 3mo. of seperation...she was seeing a married guy....she felt no remorse then, now why all the tears?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

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We have been divorced closing in on a year and seperated for a year. It took her this long to get emotional on me?? She didnt really cry up until she found out I was engaged. What did she expect? She divorced me with 3mo. of seperation...she was seeing a married guy....she felt no remorse then, now why all the tears??
Because almost all affairs are ended within 2 years of finding out about them.

Once the "honeymoon" period is over for the affairees and reality sets in, they look back at what occurred and (usually) can't believe what they did.

Harley suggests waiting 6 months in Plan A & 2 years in Plan B for this very reason. Some people think it's insane to go on that long but this is the very reason. Affairs end.

Some are not given the chance (you for example) and have to deal with as best they can.

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Thanks Chris.....that is exactly why we needed to go to counseling and needed to speak to people on this site. Oh well, there is nothing I could do and there is nothing to be done now....but move on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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itsover,

I guess it depends on how you view forgiveness

If you view it as ignoring what she's done like it wasn't important..then I can see how it would be hard to forgive..

but, if you look at forgiveness as what it is..
meaning they no longer owe you anything for hurting you..then it's easier to forgive..

So how do you view forgiveness? Do you feel she still owes you something for hurting you? or do you feel

Yes, what she did hurt me, and it was wrong, but she no longer owes me anything for that..then you can begin to forgive..

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chris,
you said some were not given a chance. I understand that when the WS leaves, but how do you know when you have really given it everything and there is no chance? Most of the time now I feel like I need to let go and let God be in control and stop working - but then I get a twinge of "well what about this, or that" But if my WH isn't willing to leave OW completely, with NC (he is in that feeling guilty for her stage, which totally burns me up) then I can't do anything can I?

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ThornedRose it would be nice for to apologize for the things she did to destroy the marriage....I have...and it would also be nice of her to come clean with the OM. She has denied it continuously besides the evidence I had found.

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ITSOVER:

---it would be nice for to apologize for the things she did to destroy the marriage....I have...and it would also be nice of her to come clean with the OM. She has denied it continuously besides the evidence I had found--

I understand..you want validation, but you may never get it..

But, you can ask yourself...

How does your hurt and anger at what she did effect her?

And,

how does your hurt and anger over what she did effect you?

Does your anger at her effect her in anyway?
No, in all honesty it doesn't..she doesn't have to deal with it..she doesn't have to see it every day..she doesn't have to live with it..

But you do..

forgiveness, isn't for other person..it's FOR YOU..so that you can let go and move on..it's saying they no longer have any control over your life--and as long as your angry and unforgiving about what she did..you'll be stuck in that relationship..

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itsover,

as a FWS, I think you did the right thing for all involved by just heading straight for divorce. While it is possible that a marriage can be restored after an infidelity, from what I've seen here it almost never happens--and even when two people stay together, it is usually because they have some higher goal in mind, like keeping it together for the kids. Almost never is the marriage restored to anything I'd consider healthy. Neither BS's or remorseful WS's should waste their time staying with someone who doesn't respect them.

As far as not having an opportunity to save the marriage, I don't know what to say about that. You mentioned you could never trust her again, so what is she supposed to do? Just let you vent on her, then dump her when you get tired of punishing her? I see alot of BS's doing that, then after the divorce claiming they tried to save the marriage. At least you aren't a hypocrite. Going straight for a divorce is the most respectful thing to do in this situation.

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